Sandbagger or vanity cap or random chance...

[BIG STU]

15 hours ago, Port and Starboard said:

 

Welcome to my world Stu.

 

84 one day and 74 the next.

Well I have learned one thing after reading the posts in here. It seems you and I have plenty of company

[Nels55]

17 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

I am not sure why anyone would go from 71 to 93.

Well, it certainly was not intentional!  I will take a shot at doing the math to see exactly what happened.

 

On the front nine I shot 35 on the good round vs. 54 on the bad round which is difference of 19 strokes.  Slightly more then two strokes per hole.  Yikes!

19 putts vs. 14 for 5 strokes.  The greens were in bad shape and my short game sucked easily accounting for the 5 shots which leaves us with 14 shots.

I shanked a 56 degree wedge  into the creek on 3 so add one penalty stroke which leaves us with 13 strokes.

I had 4 short game shots on the good round and 12 on the bad round for 8 strokes difference leaving us with 5 strokes to account for.   I had one 3 chip and two 2 chips while only hitting one green.

I wasted 3 strokes on the second hole with a bad drive that stopped directly behind a tree and then a shot that I punched out pretty good but too high that came back to me.  I then hit a low one out but not far enough.  This leaves us with 2 strokes.

The shot after the shanked wedge shot on 3 and a drive into the trees on the left on 4 account for those two strokes.

 

On the back I shot 36 on the good round and 39 on the bad round which is accounted for by 13 putts vs. 16 putts.  The pins were more difficult and the greens were really soft and bumpy on the poor round.

 

So there you have it! 

 

[DE-ILLINI]

The scoring swings you describe are exactly what I experience.  Typically shoot from low 80’s to low 90’s.  For me the low rounds come when I chip and putt well.  Hit a few chips close or lag it to tap in range really help lower the score.  When that is not working, the score goes up fast.  Couple the on short game, with a good “for me” ball striking day and I can creep into the 70’s.

[Ferguson]

21 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

If your handicap is 8 as your profile says, it's not surprising to me.....i would guess people in this range tend to fluctuate the most of anyone. I could certainly see that spread

 

I have a lot of friends in this range. One of them i've seen do exactly what you describe, except he shot the 70's in a tournament where he was getting shots, and got called a sandbagger by everyone at the club LOL.

 

Couple of weeks later he shot 100 playing with me and broke a club haha

 

My scores fall always fall within a small deviation 80, +/- 2.  With a few birds and some putts, I might card a 75 or 76.

At an unfamiliar course, the spread might extend to + 3 or 3.5.  

 

I simply can't understand a high deviation like 71 to 93, unless bad weather or an injury influenced the ability to hit the ball.

The labels of vanity cap or sandbagger don't necessarily apply.  Sounds like an anomaly.  

 

 

[Socrates]

22 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Yep, I've been called a sandbagger many times in tournaments.  I can make a big number or a few in a row at any time during a round and also make birdies and pars and I don't seem to have much control over when the good or bad streaks happen.  For that reason I am good team partner for best ball or scramble or whatever format.  I also tend to do fairly well at match play where blow up holes don't matter much.

I've known a few guys who play vastly different in a casual round vs with something on the line.  One guy typically was mid 80's most rounds.  In a tournament setting he was mid 70's because he concentrated more.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

44 minutes ago, Socrates said:

I've known a few guys who play vastly different in a casual round vs with something on the line.  One guy typically was mid 80's most rounds.  In a tournament setting he was mid 70's because he concentrated more.

"There's golf and there's tournament golf, and the two bear little resemblance." ~Bobby Jones

[MountainKing]

1 hour ago, Socrates said:

I've known a few guys who play vastly different in a casual round vs with something on the line.  One guy typically was mid 80's most rounds.  In a tournament setting he was mid 70's because he concentrated more.

 

I hoover between scratch and 1 and this sort of resembles me.  Tournament golf really brings the best out of me. Casual rounds with no money or anything on the line I tend to play pretty loose and very aggressive (260 all carry over water with a 3w, why not).  End result is my handicap card is a probably a bit more varied than most scratch golfers.  My average is still just under 76 for last year, but yeah I put a few mid 80's rounds up there and one that was north of 90 in a few of those casual rounds.

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, Ferguson said:

 

My scores fall always fall within a small deviation 80, +/- 2.  With a few birds and some putts, I might card a 75 or 76.

At an unfamiliar course, the spread might extend to + 3 or 3.5.  

 

I simply can't understand a high deviation like 71 to 93, unless bad weather or an injury influenced the ability to hit the ball.

The labels of vanity cap or sandbagger don't necessarily apply.  Sounds like an anomaly.  

 

 

You have a repeatable swing.  I don't and I have always been that way in golf or any other sport.  I can get hot and look like a pro and then lose it and look like Barney Fife.  If I can figure out how to overcome that I will be more like you!  Hmmm, is that a good thing?

[Hickory4ever]

There will always be some variability in golf scores. Most of my scores (80-90%) are plus or minus 3 of my median score. There are a few scores that crop up outside of that range each year, that is golf. 

[MountainKing]

On 1/3/2024 at 1:12 PM, Pepperturbo said:

 

I am not sure why anyone would go from 71 to 93.

 

Not sure why that's out of the realm of anything for an amateur golfer. Even the best golfers in the world throw up an out of character score once or twice a year.  You actually were pretty close to my low in 2023 (70) and my high was a 90.  The 90 was my highest score in decades, I went out and shot a 72 the next day on the same course.  Some days you just don't have it, and a lot of times on those days you try to force it making it worse.

 

If you're magically able to keep yourself within a few strokes of your scoring average every single round, that's some impressive consistency that even tour players don't have.

[Pepperturbo]

4 hours ago, MountainKing said:

 

Not sure why that's out of the realm of anything for an amateur golfer. Even the best golfers in the world throw up an out of character score once or twice a year.  You actually were pretty close to my low in 2023 (70) and my high was a 90.  The 90 was my highest score in decades, I went out and shot a 72 the next day on the same course.  Some days you just don't have it, and a lot of times on those days you try to force it making it worse.

 

If you're magically able to keep yourself within a few strokes of your scoring average every single round, that's some impressive consistency that even tour players don't have.

I hear ya...you say it's a given, and that's fine.   It's NOT magical for me, it's how I have lived my life, calculated and prepared.

 

As I said, my worst in years was 81 the other day.  Playing since the 90s; my first ever 18 hole score was 94.  In some respects, my life has been about being consistent instead of unreliable.  A person doesn't accomplish what I have, and stay alive, accepting some days I just won't have it.  Some of us never give up or stop fighting towards the goal.

 

I am well aware of the extreme rounds some tour players post; referenced them many times on this board.  Only I say it differently;  any given day, a person's score can swing +/- ten strokes.  The difference, is in a person's character, do they collapse or never give up?  That's why my low was 68 too.  What they do or don't do, or you do during golf is NOT what guides me.  We all have different strengths and weaknesses.  The question is when they show up.

Edited January 5 by Pepperturbo

[Schulzmc]

On 1/5/2024 at 1:16 PM, Pepperturbo said:

I hear ya...you say it's a given, and that's fine.   It's NOT magical for me, it's how I have lived my life, calculated and prepared.

 

As I said, my worst in years was 81 the other day.  Playing since the 90s; my first ever 18 hole score was 94.  In some respects, my life has been about being consistent instead of unreliable.  A person doesn't accomplish what I have, and stay alive, accepting some days I just won't have it.  Some of us never give up or stop fighting towards the goal.

 

I am well aware of the extreme rounds some tour players post; referenced them many times on this board.  Only I say it differently;  any given day, a person's score can swing +/- ten strokes.  The difference, is in a person's character, do they collapse or never give up?  That's why my low was 68 too.  What they do or don't do, or you do during golf is NOT what guides me.  We all have different strengths and weaknesses.  The question is when they show up.

 

I want to make sure I understand you correctly. I’m one of those golfers with a pretty big score variance. I can easily shoot 78 one day and 93 the next. Happens all the time. So you are saying this is because I have “lived my life, calculated, and prepared” incorrectly? And that the difference between you and me is “In a person’s character”?

 

Good to know.

[sui generis]

6 hours ago, Schulzmc said:

 

I want to make sure I understand you correctly. I’m one of those golfers with a pretty big score variance. I can easily shoot 78 one day and 93 the next. Happens all the time. So you are saying this is because I have “lived my life, calculated, and prepared” incorrectly? And that the difference between you and me is “In a person’s character”?

 

Good to know.

 

Clearly you're not "captain of industry" and expert in everything who deals with 3,000 emails a day. 😉

Edited January 8 by sui generis

[HGLucky13]

Im not near the caliber of most on here. I have a quasi HC (on my Garmin Watch) of around 13-14. I regularly have a 10 point swing between rounds. The past 20 rounds show a low of 86 and a high of 97. That 97 was brutal! After playing 6 days in a row on the same course, shooting all in the 80's, somehow everything went to pot and I had 5 doubles, 1 triple and 1 blow up hole that was a 9 on a par 3...3 shanks into water cause I was sure the next tee shot was going to be good instead of just dropping. HAHA. On a normal round I would get maybe 7-8 pars maybe a birdie or 2 and a handful of doubles with bogeys filling in the rest. Seems some days the blow up holes take over. Mental weakness I guess... 

[biglou11]

I have wild swings in scores like that all the time.  I carry an 8.6, and shot anywhere from 72 to 102 last year.  Certainly there are variables each time: the temperature, wind, whether it's a casual round or tournament (when I tend to focus more- but not always), and just random chance (good/bad bounce off trees, cart path, etc.).

 

I remember reading somewhere that your long game dictates how low your high scores are, and your short game dictates how low your low scores can go.

[EdY]

On 1/3/2024 at 2:48 PM, radiman said:

I hear you though.  I am the most inconsistent 2.5 handicap I know.  My scores can fluctuate anywhere between a couple under all the way up to the high 80's depending on who shows up to the course that day.  

And how much $ is on the line?

[SNIPERBBB]

I shot 89-74 on the same day, first day of our club championship lol.

 

I'm generally consistent. Some days are better or worse than others. Usually it just comes down to if the putting and chipping on are on that day or not.

[JohnB92]

Golf scores can really fluctuate without a lot of difference in each swing. Just think about it this way:

If your worst drives get paired up with their worst hole for that shot shape, how high can your score go? Today I hit 3 really bad drives. 2 of them happened to go where there was no trouble, 1 found a lake. I hit 0 fairways and shot 80. But a lot of that was luck. If I moved the holes around to match them with the worst shot for worst timing, I would've hit 3 balls out of bounds and 2 more into lakes. That's another 8 shots just off the tee. While I missed ALL the fairways, I didn't feel like I was hitting tee shots poorly. It's just all but 1 happened to be misses in the right place. Bad swing, but on a good hole for that miss. 

Don't even get me started on putting and how that changes the result. Or imagine getting the wind wrong and pulling the incorrect club. That can be the difference between a close shot with a birdie putt and a greenside lake penalty.

[Imp]

Had a 14 shoot a 1 over 73 this weekend in my winter league. I've played with him over the years many times (i didn't play with him saturday) and his handicap is really accurate.  Some of the guys that don't know him, didn't play that day are giving him/me crap on our forum. Ugh. 

[nsxguy]

On 1/3/2024 at 2:12 PM, Pepperturbo said:

I am not sure why anyone would go from 71 to 93.

 

71 was the anomaly.

 

93 was likely within, or at least close to, normal distribution.

[Nels55]

On 2/10/2024 at 5:27 PM, JohnB92 said:

Golf scores can really fluctuate without a lot of difference in each swing. Just think about it this way:

If your worst drives get paired up with their worst hole for that shot shape, how high can your score go? Today I hit 3 really bad drives. 2 of them happened to go where there was no trouble, 1 found a lake. I hit 0 fairways and shot 80. But a lot of that was luck. If I moved the holes around to match them with the worst shot for worst timing, I would've hit 3 balls out of bounds and 2 more into lakes. That's another 8 shots just off the tee. While I missed ALL the fairways, I didn't feel like I was hitting tee shots poorly. It's just all but 1 happened to be misses in the right place. Bad swing, but on a good hole for that miss. 

Don't even get me started on putting and how that changes the result. Or imagine getting the wind wrong and pulling the incorrect club. That can be the difference between a close shot with a birdie putt and a greenside lake penalty.

Yes, luck plays a huge role in golf and I have had said the same thing that you are saying many times over the years.  In golf there are not that many shots hit in one round and they are hit pretty well spaced out over time compared to tennis or the like.  The better player is much more likely to win in tennis because the number of shots hit in a short period of time tends to balance out the luck factor.

[ChipNRun]

Scores fluctuate in the Seniors group I sometimes play in.

 

One guy in his early 70s had recurring back trouble. He had a 12 HDCP or so.

 

He went out one day and shot a 95 or so. He took a month off, went to his chiropractor, and came back and shot a 78.

 

As for me, if I play a round with no triple bogies, one three putt or less, and a birdie or two along the way, I score 6 or 7 strokes better than in one of my futzy rounds.

[TonyDAnnunzio]

This has been a VERY interesting thread and fluctuating scores has been something I have pondered for a very long time.  I think much of it can be just having expectations prior to the round and starting to press and force things to happen when it goes sideways.  One of the best rounds I ever had was 20+ years ago was at one of the Pinehurst courses during a tournament.  We had a 1pm start time and a five hour drive ahead of us.  I was riding with a buddy and we left around 5am with the intention of getting to our place, relaxing for an hour or so, then heading out to the range to hit some balls and roll some puts.  Unfortunately, we had some car trouble on the way and pulled into the parking lot at Pinehurst around 1245.  I literally put my golf shoes on and went straight to the first tee.  I had ZERO expectations and proceeded to shoot a 73 from the tips at a course I had never seen before in my life.  The next day I was even through 7 or 8 holes with a wedge to the green in the middle of the fairway.  I recall it was an elevated green and the pin was on the back.  I flushed the wedge and was thinking that has to be close.  When I got to the green I found my ball had flown the green and ended up making double.  I immediately started pressing and trying to recover those two lost strokes...  I think I ended up shooting an 88 or so...  

 

Back in December we went to visit my wife's brother and his wife.  While our wives went shopping my BIL and I went out to play 18.  For whatever reason, I couldn't sleep the night before and ended up with only a couple hours of shut eye.  As we were leaving I told my wife my goal for the day was to break 100 and come back with at least 6 of the 12 balls I had in my bag.  I had played this course only once the December before...  So, I just ask my BIL on each hole "where is the miss" and that is where I aimed all day.  When I am tired I tend to be slow closing the clubface with the driver.  There were some holes I would aim 30 yards left and just hit big cuts on purpose because I knew I could rely on that shot shape and keep it in play.  I ended up shooting a 76 on punched greens.

 

Anyway, I guess my point to the above stories is that I believe the large fluctuation in scores can be attributed to trying to "force" a good shot and having expectations of what you should score before ever stepping on the tee.  When I start trying to force things my tempo gets quick and, for whatever reason, I swing harder.  Now, if I can only practice slowing down I may be a decent player or at least more consistent.  I do recall when I shot the 73 down in Pinehurst I had just read Bob Rotella's book "Golf is Not a Game of Perfect".  Maybe I need to find it and give it another read...

[EddieEdwards]

9/10 of my rounds are within 5 strokes of 80.  Once a year, I shoot par and in the 90's

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, EddieEdwards said:

9/10 of my rounds are within 5 strokes of 80.  Once a year, I shoot par and in the 90's

Once a year in the 90s is pretty good compared to my experience!  I am okay with most of my bad rounds and can laugh them off but when I start stringing them together it can get a bit tedious LOL.  My index has gone from 6.8 to a high of 11 in a couple of months.  Some of that is due to the course being a muddy mess with really difficult back corner pin positions but some is due to how streaky I am.  At the moment I feel like I am about to get on a hot streak because I am hitting the ball better and I am doing better on E6 golf.  But then again I am always thinking that I am about to turn it around during a cold streak...

[Nickb333]

Forgive me if I missed this point earlier in the thread.

 

Isn’t handicap developed using the lowest 10 of your last 20 rounds? If yes, that alone would explain how someone could have wild score swings. Maybe not 20 stroke anomalies, but certainly the 75-84 spreads. 

 

[Schulzmc]

2 hours ago, Nickb333 said:

Forgive me if I missed this point earlier in the thread.

 

Isn’t handicap developed using the lowest 10 of your last 20 rounds? If yes, that alone would explain how someone could have wild score swings. Maybe not 20 stroke anomalies, but certainly the 75-84 spreads. 

 

It is now 8 of the last 20.

[nsxguy]

7 hours ago, EddieEdwards said:

9/10 of my rounds are within 5 strokes of 80.  Once a year, I shoot par and in the 90's

 

90% within that range sounds incredibly consistent.

 

Did you actually go through your last 12 months rounds ?

[Strategery]

2 hours ago, Nickb333 said:

Forgive me if I missed this point earlier in the thread.

 

Isn’t handicap developed using the lowest 10 of your last 20 rounds? If yes, that alone would explain how someone could have wild score swings. Maybe not 20 stroke anomalies, but certainly the 75-84 spreads.

75-84 spread is not exceptional IMO.

In my regular golf group there is one fellow who I swear was 82-85 for 150 rounds all season. That's an amazing std deviation. Also in our group is this guy who was 72-102 on consecutive days.

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, Strategery said:

Also in our group is this guy who was 72-102 on consecutive days.

A man after my own heart!