NOW THIS !!! IS HOW A CLEVELAND CLASSIC SHOULD LOOK

[leftypga]

I work at a golf shop and have had a Rifle 7.0 wood shaft just sitting around waiting for the right lefty trade in head. I didn't really want to try this in my gamer just yet. Well, this R7 425 TP came in a few days ago and I couldn't resist. I tipped it one inch and installed it at 44 inches with a Lamkin Crossline cord grip. Swingweight came out at D5, same as my current driver. I hit it on the launch monitor, and again yesterday at the range. I'll have a more detailed review in a few days, but all I'll say now is, I really miss steel in a driver. I'm actually hitting the ball a bit higher (from 14.2 degrees to 15.4) and with more spin (2263 to 2457) with the steel shaft. I know, I hit it too high. My dispersion cut almost in half and I went from hitting a 4-5 yard draw to a 2-3 yard fade. Best thing is, my average distance only dropped about 4 yards. I can take that if I find more fairways. We'll see how it works on the course.


[attachment=1433955:steel.jpg]

[Ri_Redneck]

[quote name='viperstudio' timestamp='1354070237' post='5987553']
[quote name='ROBOPTI' timestamp='1347643375' post='5639889']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1347638603' post='5639495']
[quote name='bobcat' timestamp='1347634791' post='5639155']
Have fun with it guys, but if Steel shafts were truly better, you would see it on trending beyond this forum and perhaps even on the Tours, (which of course you don't).

Now this is not to say a steel won't work better in the drvier for particular people, who struggle with control. For those folks, I say more power to you if steel can help you hit more fairways. However readers here must appereciate this is just about some folks enjoying a cheap experiment and hardly the latest trend, or an intelligent option for the great majority of golfers.

Keep in mind there are some very good 90+ gram graphite driver shafts available which can really help with control off the tee which might be the better "experiement".

I think we all realize that Graphite shafts generally offer distance advantages, but you must also find one that offers control for your particular swing as well. I have personally never cared for graphite shafts with a weight below 75 grams, and then I usually go with 1/2" of tipping as well. (Tipping amounts vary and the bore depth of the driver must be considered). One of the best graphite "control" shafts I ever used was the Fujikura Vista Pro 90, (90 gram shaft). It was widely known to be a great FW/Hybrid shaft, but great as a Driver shaft too. There are plenty others in that weight category.

My advice therefore is to try a heavier graphite shaft at 44"-44.75" before going the 130 gram steel shaft route. Chances are it is the shorter shaft length that will [provide the most help with control off the tee, not the shaft material itself.

:golfer:
[/quote]

Uh oh, our perimeter has been compromised by an intruder!

My question is, other than being lighter weight, what advantage does graphite really offer anyone?

Apples to apples if you had a steel shaft and a graphite shaft both at 44 inches and 100 grams, what would be the difference? I could be wrong, but I don't think shaft technology in graphite adds swing speed. The light weight and longer shafts add swing speed.
[/quote]



Hey ... Let's be honest ... bobcat is kind of stating what would be the rebutal to where this thread has gone ... and rasies some good points/questions

Now as far as .. This is just a bunch of guys enjoying a cheap experiment and "most" guys know that etc ... Ummm ... I just started this thread 5-6 weeks ago and it has taken off all on its own ... and "latest trend" & "more intelligent option" ... well I'm not thrilled with how that reads ... but I get ya .. and don't necc agree..

I would agree that graphite offers distances advantages .. I do .. but as as been the theme of MANY MANY MANY topics & threads over time - how much distance do we really need. We / 99.99999 % of the members on this forum - the very people who I am talking to - DO NOT need PGA length off the tee - we do not play (normally) 7400 yard long course like the pros routinely do. We're the masses - The 9-5ers - the office rat who goes out on the weekend - we all mostly play that typical 6800-7200 yard course - where a 280 yard driver knocks into a low iron/wedge (normally). So I just decided to try to do that as efficiently as possible - and it WORKS. So don't lump everything together and call it a fad.

Also ... I can count on 1 hand - how many 90+ gram GOOD graphite shafts for a DRIVER even exist - PERIOD - and of that one handfull - some are vintage shafts - that were made years ago

NV105
Fuji HK110 Pro
Fuji Pro 95
Reax 105
Blueboard 103x
I guess there is the also the 93 Blue

The UST 95 V2 is HORRIBLE - IMO ... I love !!!! the 75X V2 ... The 95 is just dead graphite

Does Matrix have a 100 grammer ??

Anyway - The choices are limited ... BIGTIME

So ... For us ... cause compared to the Pros - we all SUCK. and - Steel works. I keep reading it's working. Couple low digit HCs even have tried - AND I PROMISE YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ... For every guys who posts it works - there are 30-40-50 more per - that are closet steel users now who it is also working for - cuz I also promise you - its how every forum works - the guys who are getting BAD results are always the quickest to lite up a thread and say what a failure it is.

Also I do not agree that it's just the weight - cuz steel is technically as good as graphite - but graphite has to be MADE to be as good as steel. As far as the modern generation of 50-60-70 gram shafts - sorry - but abslutely belive - and ANY retailer if they have the ability to bwe honest - know that mph on a monitor - REGARDLESS OF WHERE THE BALL ACTUALLY ENDS UP GOING - moves clubs out the door - and puts food on their table. That typical "WOW Sir - You just swung that 12457 mph - that's fast !!!!" ... Too bad that same retailer cant say - "Sir - You also need to buy 476534765476354 dozen balls for your round with your new driver - cuz we have NO IDEA where the ball is going"

Hey - I go to the range 1-2 a week - without fail . I ALWAYS have 2-3 graphite shafted drivers - all mostly in the 80 gram range. Probably my best is my G20 / DI-7X - just stupid long - and great feeling - and consistent. But I know - me/myself/I - I KNOW - I SUCK !!!!!! & I WILL during that round - snap hook that bad boy and I'll never see that ball again - it will happen. I am NOT !!! doing that with steel. That video that was posted in this thread is VERY accuarte as far as what I think is happening. I DO NOT yank my steely off line - PERIOD. And lately - Pressure on - I use steel cuz my confidence is thru the roof with it.

So ... Like anything else .. If graphite works for you - AWESOME !!!!!!!!!! .. It does for me too - 90-95% of the time... It's just that I figured out how to solve that other 5-10%

Great post though bobcat- cuz that is the logical rebutal - and I TOTALLY get where you are coming from - completely
[/quote]

ROBO what do you think about the Nunchuck Graphite shaft?
[/quote]

Not ROBO, but the Nunchuk is nothing but a stupid stiff shaft. CPM is like 315 (XXXX). That's how they keep the head stable. Avoid it unless your SS is over 145mph.

BT

[viperstudio]

Cool thanks, i order S300 for my driver will try it on my I20. I also removed the steel shaft on my Nike T60 3 wood and put it on my Tour Spoon RBZ and so far so good, i don't think i lost distance at all and there is something about the steel shaft i am more confident hitting the 3 wood of the deck now.

[ROBOPTI]

[quote name='Ri_Redneck' timestamp='1354244642' post='5998205']
[quote name='viperstudio' timestamp='1354070237' post='5987553']

ROBO what do you think about the Nunchuck Graphite shaft?
[/quote]

Not ROBO, but the Nunchuk is nothing but a stupid stiff shaft. CPM is like 315 (XXXX). That's how they keep the head stable. Avoid it unless your SS is over 145mph.

BT
[/quote]

I hear the same thing BT ... I never tried one. I love the idea of the weight - but the principal sounds little rediculous to me. That and steel works and is 1/10 the cost - OVER !!!

[ej002]

Stupid Stiff? my RBZ 3 wood is now 43" and tipped 3.25" (x100) CPMs to a million... lol.

The Classic is drying now... seems kind of short. 44" Might get the extendz treatment. Also, comparted to my S9-1 it has tones of loft... (both 9.5*) ewwww. We shall see.

[ROBOPTI]

Gang .. I know a lot of guys are trying/building 44 inch setups. But seriously ... TRUST ME ... Try 43.75 MAX. It is awesome

[ALIF]

I play my pro force V2 @ 43 inches. It was tipped 2 inches, then I cut some more off the butt. I added lead tape on the head about 10 grams worth which softened up the CPM's a bit and brought the SW back up. Almost as good as steel:)

[emea_golfer]

You made curious, have an old big bertha steelhead with STEEL shaft. What is your opinion
pulling the shaft and putting an Cobra L4V head onto it?

[plus8]

Y'know, reading this thread is making me pull my old persimmon Super Eye-O-Matic out of the closet and slap a grip on it, then give it a whirl.... I've got a couple of grips lying around, so I think that's what I'll do this weekend...

Thanks !!!

[Ri_Redneck]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1354253512' post='5998709']
Stupid Stiff? my RBZ 3 wood is now 43" and tipped 3.25" (x100) CPMs to a million... lol.

The Classic is drying now... seems kind of short. 44" Might get the extendz treatment. Also, comparted to my S9-1 it has tones of loft... (both 9.5*) ewwww. We shall see.
[/quote]

Just an FYI, the X100 trimmed 1.75" CPMs to around 270 in your 3w. Tipping another 1.5" MIGHT get you to 290, but I doubt it. The NumbChuk is over 300 in raw form (before tipping). comparable to putting a hybrid shaft in a driver head. Look in the dictionary under the term "Boardy" and you'll see a picture of it.

BT

[Ri_Redneck]

[quote name='ROBOPTI' timestamp='1354254001' post='5998731']
Gang .. I know a lot of guys are trying/building 44 inch setups. But seriously ... TRUST ME ... Try 43.75 MAX. It is awesome
[/quote]

How about the guy using the C Taper .355s!! I didn't see his post early enough to tell him he was screwing up. Wish I had. a waste of good iron shafts. Anyway, it amazes me how much people think they are going to loose clubhead speed if they go 43.5! I have tested this over and over and so have many others. Longer shafts give only MARGINAL speed increases and ALWAYS at the sacrifice of accuracy. Longer drives will always be the result of better contact, which is exactly what all you guys are experiencing. The added weight smooths out your tempo and everything just works. The main thing to remember is, as some have noticed, you CAN become much more fatigued if you increase the weight too much. Especially if you're moving from something in the 50-60 gm range to 120gm steel. BIG difference!! It's best to do some conditioning before going all out for a whole day of golf with one of these clubs.

Also, I've seen many posts relating Dynalite Golds, Dynamic Golds, Dynamic Golds SL, etc that one S felt great and the next S felt like a noodle. Well, that's because the raw frequency of these different shaft models are different. Just cause it's TT doesn't mean that one S is exactly like the next S. Tipping can be different too. It all depends on the design of the shaft. LEARN the proper amount before tipping and you will be much happier.

Last thing I want to point out is to all those who say torque is no big deal. ALL of the steel shafts have torque measurements of less than 3*, and many are FAR more flexible than comparable graphite shafts with higher torques. Yet many say they can go all out and still feel like they're in control. Well, how about that! Higher weight, more flex and lower torque means straighter and sometimes even longer shots! Makes you want to rethink that X flex 5* torque shaft doesn't it?

BT

[fr0sty]

This thread has me very intrigued.

My winter project will be this with a 43.75" S300 shaft:

[attachment=1436895:D1.JPG]

[willard1523]

fr0sty, you better get some ear plugs, hibore + steel shaft might be a wee bit noisy!

[weso209]

Club looks great. What kind of grip is that?

[Ri_Redneck]

Well, I now have my Classic 310 ready for action. Installed a TT Ti Tour MF220 and topped it off with a Black Widow Velvet grip. Hoping to try it out in Austin week after next

[attachment=1437753:CC 310 Ti Shaft 1.JPG]

[attachment=1437757:CC 310 Ti Shaft 5.JPG]

[attachment=1437755:CC 310 Ti Shaft 4.JPG]

BT

[MadGolfer76]

Guys, are you all keeping graphite in your fw's or going steel there too?

[azgreg]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1354395112' post='6005175']
Guys, are you all keeping graphite in your fw's or going steel there too?
[/quote]

Everything in my bag has steel in it.

[Ri_Redneck]

Hate to say it, but everything in my bag right now is graphite. Just heavy graphite. Don't know if the CC Ti shaft will displace anything or not.

BT

[MadGolfer76]

More bump on fw shafts...and BUMP on you cats that have the x100/983K combos.

[weso209]

GANG ....

 

Trust me !!!!! - Get a Cleveland Classic and do THIS !!!!!!!!!!!

 

OH MY GOD IS IT GOOD !!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

***** STEEL SHAFTED BABY *****

 

Probably only you old to quasi-old farts will truly remember / appreciate this. But I thought

... "SELF - Why not"

 

Guys - This feels so good it's stupid. 1st - (I'll elaborate later) - The Classic IS !!!! the lowest spinning head I have ever hit PERIOD - and rediculously long .. I have 2 now. This is a 7.5 head pictured.

 

But gang .. I CANNOT stress enough how smooth this feels - it's CRAZY STABLE - and oh wow .. man ... its just works .. it does ... I LOVE IT !!!! .. I AM putting a steel shaft one of my ZLEs just to try. But man I can't get over what a killer combo this is

 

This is a 205 gram 7.5 head - and an X100 DGX shaft - tipped one inch - 43 3/4 inches. And it's MINE !!!

 

Yeah .. All the super-techno-carbon-woven-tri weave this-nano tube-litium infused-bionic bend point that-gi joe with the kung fu grip shafts are awesome ...

 

BUT I love steel !!!!! ... LOVE .... It just ooozes confidence on the tee box ... and it BOMBS !!!

 

I am going to try a slightly higher loft in the EXACT same configuration.

 

OK ... Back to your regularly scheduled programming ...

club looks sharp, what white grip is that?

[Boogs2]

Just tried the Cleveland Classic Tour with the Kusala shaft and WOW. Very stable, great feeling head, super deep face and a nice sound and feel to the driver head. I may have to pick one up eventually when it goes down even more in price, but with so many amazing drivers coming in 2013, I may have to wait just a little more

[ej002]

Hated the classic with the steel. After playing 3* open cobra, it looked super shut, and I lost distance too. Back to the drawing board.

[dspavin]

A bit off topic, but how are the finishes holding up on everyones classics? I'm thinking of buying a used 290 with the kusala white

[prozac]

[quote name='ROBOPTI' timestamp='1354254001' post='5998731']
Gang .. I know a lot of guys are trying/building 44 inch setups. But seriously ... TRUST ME ... Try 43.75 MAX. It is awesome
[/quote]

haha ... I read this post and immediately thought "Hey I've been playing my driver 44 1/4 forever and LOVE it."

Then I realized you guys are talking about 3 woods or drivers with STEEL shafts HA!

Rob, I've been out of the golf/forum scene for years and it looks like you haven't changed a bit lol.

Hope all is well!
Zach

[firstbatch]

Ok, gave it a try. My gamer has been the original Cobra ZL 9.5 that I re-shafted with a Fuji Motore Speeder VC 6.0 Stiff at 45.5"

Bought a tip/sleeve and put a S300 tipped 1.25" and butt trimmed to 44"......SW came out at D4 which surprised me. Took it out for a test drive in my Sunday morning game and bottom line is it is indeed a fairway finder. Seems like I can hit the sweet spot more often and thus get better ball speed and it does seem to be easier to work the ball. Today was a bit wet in the fairway so not sure about total distance comparison but I would say roughly it looks like I am about 10 - 15 yds shorter.......But...... accuracy is much improved. So for a simple test drive I liked it.

The tipping at 1.25" left the first step measurement in the playing position at 10.25". The feel was the tip and bend profile was to soft so another .25-..50" tipping would in my mind probably feel better. Launch angle seemed fine. I am going to order up a couple more shafts......x100, s400 and another s300 and play around with the parameters and find what feels right.

What I do like is I can swing hard at it with the steel and have no fear. I play Black Gold in my irons so already like the heavyweight feel to keep me more on plane. Great experiment. Been thinking for awhile about getting a X flex graphite but this route will be much less expensive.

Thanks Robo. Great idea and lots of fun.

[craniac24]

If I wanted to take a DG S300 and put it in a bore-thru head would I have to tip it? That is, if I wanted it to play true to flex.

[Tomed]

Just found this thread and have to chime in - not about steel specifically but somewhat related... My height and build is similar to K. Bradley. I've been as low as a +3.2 hndcp and now play to a 1 hndcp (long story that I won't suffer you with). My driver ss is 118mph. Several months ago I decided to build the same driver setup he's using and bought a Cleveland Classic 290 at 9*. First Cleveland anything I've ever owned. I also got the same shaft - Miyazaki Kusala Indigo 61x. I set it up same as my (at that time) current driver at 45" and couldn't hit the same fairway twice. I hated it, but stuck it out. Nothing changed. I went from hitting fairway after fairway with a 45" Titleist 910 9.5* and Diamana 'ahina 72x to not hitting anywhere near a fairway with this Cleveland... Grrrr.

I started researching what driver lengths were in the 60s, 70s, 80s when everyone was playing steel shafts and found that on average a driver was around 43 and some change. I was on my last breath with this setup and needed something to change drastically so I cut the Classic down to 43.25" and put on a new GP 25g grip. The next day I went out with a long time playing partner. He has seen me at my best and at my worst (the previous months with this behemoth at 45"). By #13, I had hit all but one fairway and the miss was right side fringe. 13 is a particularly demanding par4 hole at 465yd slightly uphill all the way, very small/narrow fairway with a meandering creek all down the left side and nothing but trees on the right (of the cart path). I hit the thing and didn't think anything about it other than "what is my next shot." I got to my ball, just right of the center line, and wedged it onto the green for an easy par. On #14 my playing partner remarked "I used to play with a guy who hit drives like that." I was kind of taken aback because I don't know anyone who isn't on the tour who can hit drives like that so I said "Who's that?" and he remarked "YOU!" He was basically saying "You're back..."

Not only am I (back) long again, but my accuracy has gone up to a place where it hasn't been previously. I'm drawing everything off the tee again, and better, I'm predictable (off the tee) again. From my perspective, there's no better feeling in the game than stepping up to the tee on any hole knowing you can hit the fairway AND have just one miss. I aim up the right half and bring it back to center line, and when it doesn't I'm in the right half. Priceless. Sometimes I'll over draw it but it's a runner that'll hit the fairway and find the fringe or first cut. Shorter is the right thing (for me). I'm back!!!!

[firstbatch]

Craniac24.......the key reference is the measurement from the heel to the first step while measured in the playing position.

10" is the measurement that will make a S300 play true to flex. No need to think about thru bore or how deep the blind bore is yada yada

[pingman908]

I tried this myself in october and I have to say I have had great results. My normal driver is an I20 10.5 with the stock tfc stiff shaft. Averaged 240-250 in the air but was fighting a slice. I got a Rapture V2 9 degrees of ebay. I put a S300 tipped 1'' ( don't know why, just sounded good). Wow is all I have to say. Nice medium trajectory and 260-270 in the air. Still slice but not nearly as often or as drastic. I have rread in this post a few talking about doing to their I20's but have not read any results. Has anyone done it yet? I really want to give it a go to see if maybe it could do any better. Will tipping the shaft a little more help out any? Anyways this was a great experiment that will definately improve my game!!! Thanks

[dspavin]

[quote name='dspavin' timestamp='1354442505' post='6007139']
A bit off topic, but how are the finishes holding up on everyones classics? I'm thinking of buying a used 290 with the kusala white
[/quote]

Anyone?