Will the college admissions scam hit the Tour PLAYERS?

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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭


    Of course the real crime in all this is academia convincing students that some useless degree like art history, music or some other liberal arts degree etc is worth $60k per year. Then the student is under a mountain of debt without being given a trade that will provide a positive ROI on their education.




    Agree with that. The real crime is that they can charge for degrees like that. Lol
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  • deadsolid...shankdeadsolid...shank ClubWRX Posts: 14,768 ClubWRX


    Although it’s all totally disgusting, part of me does love the creativity of getting the one kid in on a crew scholarship when they’ve never even held an oar.



    Just the incredible audacity of it is so revoltingly impressive.




    It really is. With that kind of money you have to wonder, why even worry about the pretense. Jsut say you’re buying your kid’s way into college. People will care for what, about three seconds!
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  • lumberman2462lumberman2462 Members Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭



    Of course the real crime in all this is academia convincing students that some useless degree like art history, music or some other liberal arts degree etc is worth $60k per year. Then the student is under a mountain of debt without being given a trade that will provide a positive ROI on their education.




    Agree with that. The real crime is that they can charge for degrees like that. Lol




    I have a friend who sent his daughter to a private very expensive school. She decided on elementary education as her major. It is pure comedic gold to listen to him b**** about how it costs $100k per year to send her to school to get a job that starts out at $30,000.00.



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  • BlackDiamondPar5BlackDiamondPar5 Members Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭




    Of course the real crime in all this is academia convincing students that some useless degree like art history, music or some other liberal arts degree etc is worth $60k per year. Then the student is under a mountain of debt without being given a trade that will provide a positive ROI on their education.




    Agree with that. The real crime is that they can charge for degrees like that. Lol




    I have a friend who sent his daughter to a private very expensive school. She decided on elementary education as her major. It is pure comedic gold to listen to him b**** about how it costs $100k per year to send her to school to get a job that starts out at $30,000.00.


    LOL what kind of job did he think she was going to get?



    Her only HOPE now is to move to a state like NY that pays teachers very well with excellent benefits and pension or marry rich...LOL!
  • Couples1Couples1 Members Posts: 150
    Anchor44 wrote:

    MtlJeff wrote:


    I suppose it's possible or even likely Phil did nothing wrong and is getting ahead of this. Because it could have come out eventually that he used him and if he hadn't denounced this first it would maybe be a presumed guilty thing


    So you think Phil didn't have to pay anything for this service?


    He didn't pick Singer's 'tutoring' business from a Yellow Pages ad. He did so after speaking with a friend and who might that be? Perhaps his good friend, Mossimo, the man who paid Singer to bribe USC coaches so that his dim witted princesses could attend the school. And I'm supposed to believe that Mossimo never mentioned anything about this scheme when he recommended Singer to Mickelson. Kind of like I'm supposed to believe that the millionaires just happened to randomly picked the Orchids of Asia massage parlor for their happy endings? And I'm supposed to also believe that his friend who involved him in the insider trading scheme didn't tell him about his plan. One day Phil's luck will run out and he's going to find himself in the same jail cell with one of his crooked cronies
  • rangersgoalierangersgoalie Members Posts: 1,833 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, the kids in this scandal will look great in DC in a few years.



    College entrance issues seem to be ok there
  • Couples1Couples1 Members Posts: 150
    Anchor44 wrote:

    MtlJeff wrote:


    I suppose it's possible or even likely Phil did nothing wrong and is getting ahead of this. Because it could have come out eventually that he used him and if he hadn't denounced this first it would maybe be a presumed guilty thing


    So you think Phil didn't have to pay anything for this service?


    This crook Singer was cooperating with the FBI by reaching out to all his dirty clients and getting them to discuss and/or repeat the scams that he had previously done. A big fish like Phil (and the 2 B level actresses) would have been on the top of his list in terms of getting good treatment. Phil 'no' like paying taxes ( but has lost millions gambling) hopefully he didn't believe he found a tainted way around not paying them legally. Phil's bookie and lawyer loves their Phil.
  • mankumanku Members Posts: 781 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Couples1 wrote:


    Let's see Phil hated taxes as he stated ... a true good sign ( college scam used as tax deduction which will nail them)

    Known for gambling addiction .. not good sign

    Went into business with convicted for stock fraud Billy Walters ... a horrible sign

    Now mentions this scam ... a true sign, he is a cheat



    Sure Phil, you didn't know a thing about this guy LOL




    How did Michelson meet Singer? Lori Laughlin's husband, Mossimo, is the founder of G/Fore...and amazing coincidence, Phil wears G/Fore shoes. Chances of them having met is 100%...also consider Mossimo is a member at Bel Air and Lakeside - I'm sure Phil has played in some big money games there over the years.



    I actually don't think Phil needed to pay to play here...Brown (where is daughter goes) is a magnet for celebrity kids, and Phil's kid phits the bill. But judging from articles I've read, and talking to a friend of mine here in LA (who attended a presentation at the Bel Air Hotel by Singer for potential families), Singer would more than likely have mentioned his "services" to Phil.



    It's all complete speculation, obviously, but combined with the Billy Walters fiasco and the general sense I get from Phil that "rules don't apply", I wouldn't be surprised to see something come out down the road.
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Open Championship! IowaClubWRX Posts: 18,281 ClubWRX
    Konklifer wrote:

    Hawkeye77 wrote:

    Konklifer wrote:




    Here are the names, you could have read them yesterday. https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/investigations-college-admissions-and-testing-bribery-scheme



    Let me know which ones are the Tour players.




    I read it already, but thanks. He helped 761 families. Here is his admission. You could have read it a couple days ago: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/college-cheating-mastermind-says-he-helped-nearly-800-families-admissions-n982666



    But, by your logic, all investigation ceases as soon as charges are filed. Got it.



    I asked if it will affect tour players based on Phil's comment. I never said any were involved. Perhaps re-read my OP to refresh your memory.



    I have nothing against Phil, but he brought it up. Show me a statement from Vaughn Taylor on the subject, and I'll edit my original post just for you.




    So basically the original post was pointless as to any impact on golf and just news of the day.



    Scam not hitting the Tour. OK.





    manku wrote:

    Couples1 wrote:


    Let's see Phil hated taxes as he stated ... a true good sign ( college scam used as tax deduction which will nail them)

    Known for gambling addiction .. not good sign

    Went into business with convicted for stock fraud Billy Walters ... a horrible sign

    Now mentions this scam ... a true sign, he is a cheat



    Sure Phil, you didn't know a thing about this guy LOL




    How did Michelson meet Singer? Lori Laughlin's husband, Mossimo, is the founder of G/Fore...and amazing coincidence, Phil wears G/Fore shoes. Chances of them having met is 100%...also consider Mossimo is a member at Bel Air and Lakeside - I'm sure Phil has played in some big money games there over the years.



    I actually don't think Phil needed to pay to play here...Brown (where is daughter goes) is a magnet for celebrity kids, and Phil's kid phits the bill. But judging from articles I've read, and talking to a friend of mine here in LA (who attended a presentation at the Bel Air Hotel by Singer for potential families), Singer would more than likely have mentioned his "services" to Phil.



    It's all complete speculation, obviously, but combined with the Billy Walters fiasco and the general sense I get from Phil that "rules don't apply", I wouldn't be surprised to see something come out down the road.




    Nonsense.
  • KonkliferKonklifer Thinkin' of a master plan... Members Posts: 7,929 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Hawkeye77 wrote:

    Konklifer wrote:

    Hawkeye77 wrote:

    Konklifer wrote:




    Here are the names, you could have read them yesterday. https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/investigations-college-admissions-and-testing-bribery-scheme



    Let me know which ones are the Tour players.




    I read it already, but thanks. He helped 761 families. Here is his admission. You could have read it a couple days ago: https://www.nbcnews....issions-n982666



    But, by your logic, all investigation ceases as soon as charges are filed. Got it.



    I asked if it will affect tour players based on Phil's comment. I never said any were involved. Perhaps re-read my OP to refresh your memory.



    I have nothing against Phil, but he brought it up. Show me a statement from Vaughn Taylor on the subject, and I'll edit my original post just for you.




    So basically the original post was pointless as to any impact on golf and just news of the day.



    Scam not hitting the Tour. OK.






    I fixed the title so that you may understand.
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  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers Posts: 28,660 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Mar 15, 2019 2:20pm #162
    Anchor44 wrote:

    MtlJeff wrote:


    I suppose it's possible or even likely Phil did nothing wrong and is getting ahead of this. Because it could have come out eventually that he used him and if he hadn't denounced this first it would maybe be a presumed guilty thing


    So you think Phil didn't have to pay anything for this service?




    I don't understand what you mean, of course Phil would have paid for a service, i think there were some clients that this company actually did legitimate work for. Whether or not Phil was one of those cases i don't know, but he had a testimonial on their site so he was obviously a paying client.... i assume not everyone this company counselled was gotten into college illegally, this i am guessing was a side-business for them
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  • Broessner71Broessner71 Members Posts: 101 ✭✭✭
    The whole thing is far from shocking
  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 27,167 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
  • cdnglfcdnglf Members Posts: 3,446 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    bscinstnct wrote:


    phil-mickelson-pga-champ-sat.jpg?w=1200




    ... after someone actually agreed to pay for “The Match”
  • AbuTheMonkeyAbuTheMonkey Members Posts: 8 ✭✭


    as much as i hate to agree with him.. The governor of California just blew the doors off this in my opinion on the cbs early show by saying that this is small potatoes compared to the LEGAL way this happens every day with Legacy donors etc ...Donating $100mil to get a building named after you, all the while with expectations that your grandchild will get a "call back" and later acceptance . I see no real difference at the root ... And he said same... Said this needs a deeper dive to stop all the donation related acceptance... I agree . fix it all or shut up.




    People conflating a completely legal donation - typically for facilities or services or professorships that benefit the entire university - that bumps someone into a special class of consideration of admittance with illegally bribing a college coach (the only person who benefits here) to get a preferred walk-on spot probably need to re-think the comparison.
  • Ignatius ReillyIgnatius Reilly Members Posts: 439 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Mar 15, 2019 4:44pm #167



    as much as i hate to agree with him.. The governor of California just blew the doors off this in my opinion on the cbs early show by saying that this is small potatoes compared to the LEGAL way this happens every day with Legacy donors etc ...Donating $100mil to get a building named after you, all the while with expectations that your grandchild will get a "call back" and later acceptance . I see no real difference at the root ... And he said same... Said this needs a deeper dive to stop all the donation related acceptance... I agree . fix it all or shut up.




    People conflating a completely legal donation - typically for facilities or services or professorships that benefit the entire university - that bumps someone into a special class of consideration of admittance with illegally bribing a college coach (the only person who benefits here) to get a preferred walk-on spot probably need to re-think the comparison.




    Yeah, some people think a $100 million donation to buy a building or a new wing for the university is no big deal. It is. Like $100 million big.



    And you should get something back for doing that - like a tax deduction, name on the building, preferred admission for your kids, whatever.



    The university and its students all get some shiny new building out of the deal. Their cost is the name of the building (i.e. no cost) and a couple of freshman spots. Pretty good value, really.



    Quite different from a cheat and bribe scam.
  • deadsolid...shankdeadsolid...shank ClubWRX Posts: 14,768 ClubWRX




    as much as i hate to agree with him.. The governor of California just blew the doors off this in my opinion on the cbs early show by saying that this is small potatoes compared to the LEGAL way this happens every day with Legacy donors etc ...Donating $100mil to get a building named after you, all the while with expectations that your grandchild will get a "call back" and later acceptance . I see no real difference at the root ... And he said same... Said this needs a deeper dive to stop all the donation related acceptance... I agree . fix it all or shut up.




    People conflating a completely legal donation - typically for facilities or services or professorships that benefit the entire university - that bumps someone into a special class of consideration of admittance with illegally bribing a college coach (the only person who benefits here) to get a preferred walk-on spot probably need to re-think the comparison.




    Yeah, some people think a $100 million donation to buy a building or a new wing for the university is no big deal. It is. Like $100 million big.



    And you should get something back for doing that - like a tax deduction, name on the building, preferred admission for your kids, whatever.



    The university and its students all get some shiny new building out of the deal. Their cost is the name of the building (i.e. no cost) and a couple of freshman spots. Pretty good value, really.



    Quite different from a cheat and bribe scam.




    Heck, of someone gives me 100million I’ll change my kids names to theirs!
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  • HoosierMizunoHoosierMizuno Members Posts: 3,425 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    yes what these parents did was criminal and hopefully they are held accountable.



    but outside of this, i think this is yet another indictment of our higher education system. funny how kids who don't have the academics to get into these schools don't flunk out. its because the coursework has been dumbed down. these rich kids and their parents aren't cheating the system because they want their kid to get a good education. they want them to go to school and make connections with other rich kids and their parents.



    its funny, when this story broke the laughlin daughter was in the bahamas on a yacht owned by rick caruso, the chairman of usc board of trustees. sounds like she's making those connections fairly quick



    you can basically buy your credentials if you're rich enough. if USC has any academic standards, rich kids who were lazy or not all that bright would simply fail out. instead these colleges are set up graduate whoever gets in, which is exactly why all that matters is that you get in.



    its been a few decades since i've had to apply to colleges, so i'm not sure if rich people like phil hire these companies out of convenience so they don't have to mess with the applications process or if its a case of actually getting an advantage as these companies can tailor essays, send to admission contacts that may not be available to the public, etc etc.



    either way i don't find the revelation that people will accept large bribes or that rich people will make bribes to give their kids an advantage all that shocking.
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  • Schley Schley Love ya don't tell ya enough! Kingdom of Saudi ArabiaMembers Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    This helps verify the theory that if you drive really slow through USC in a Mercedes what do you get?



    A degree.
  • Darth PutterDarth Putter Members Posts: 5,391 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Mar 15, 2019 4:55pm #171
    I don't think my parents realized I was in college until I invited them to the graduation ceremony.
    swing is irrelevant, score is everything

    just say NO.... to practice swings
  • Ignatius ReillyIgnatius Reilly Members Posts: 439 ✭✭✭✭



    Of course the real crime in all this is academia convincing students that some useless degree like art history, music or some other liberal arts degree etc is worth $60k per year. Then the student is under a mountain of debt without being given a trade that will provide a positive ROI on their education.




    Agree with that. The real crime is that they can charge for degrees like that. Lol




    Don't be too quick to judge.



    CEOs of Disney, Starbucks, HP, Avon, Whole Foods, Youtube, Chipotle, Alibaba, Delta...

    There's tons of them. Lots of stories on Google.



    https://www.business2community.com/leadership/21-wildly-successful-ceos-with-liberal-arts-degrees-01293809



    STEM is good for a solid upper middle class job. STEM is today's trades.



    Business degrees are good for a lot, but they're also the most underutilized degrees. Probably from the lesser schools (and why you want to get into the best ones - one way or another....).



    From this Forbes article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereknewton/2018/05/31/its-not-liberal-arts-and-literature-majors-who-are-most-underemployed/#7bf329e311de



    "[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]In other words, for every cliché of a barista or bartender with a liberal arts degree, there were ten with a degree in business."[/background]
  • Mr. GrumpyMr. Grumpy The Quintana Changeup, sit em dwn Members Posts: 2,407 ✭✭✭✭✭✭



    as much as i hate to agree with him.. The governor of California just blew the doors off this in my opinion on the cbs early show by saying that this is small potatoes compared to the LEGAL way this happens every day with Legacy donors etc ...Donating $100mil to get a building named after you, all the while with expectations that your grandchild will get a "call back" and later acceptance . I see no real difference at the root ... And he said same... Said this needs a deeper dive to stop all the donation related acceptance... I agree . fix it all or shut up.




    People conflating a completely legal donation - typically for facilities or services or professorships that benefit the entire university - that bumps someone into a special class of consideration of admittance with illegally bribing a college coach (the only person who benefits here) to get a preferred walk-on spot probably need to re-think the comparison.




    I agree only in that it was a legal donation. Where I do not is what happens after,, and in both cases a certain student was placed ahead of another because of socioeconomic status. And I am really shocked by how many are shocked by this, it happens all the time, on many levels.
  • BlackDiamondPar5BlackDiamondPar5 Members Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭




    as much as i hate to agree with him.. The governor of California just blew the doors off this in my opinion on the cbs early show by saying that this is small potatoes compared to the LEGAL way this happens every day with Legacy donors etc ...Donating $100mil to get a building named after you, all the while with expectations that your grandchild will get a "call back" and later acceptance . I see no real difference at the root ... And he said same... Said this needs a deeper dive to stop all the donation related acceptance... I agree . fix it all or shut up.




    People conflating a completely legal donation - typically for facilities or services or professorships that benefit the entire university - that bumps someone into a special class of consideration of admittance with illegally bribing a college coach (the only person who benefits here) to get a preferred walk-on spot probably need to re-think the comparison.




    Yeah, some people think a $100 million donation to buy a building or a new wing for the university is no big deal. It is. Like $100 million big.



    And you should get something back for doing that - like a tax deduction, name on the building, preferred admission for your kids, whatever.



    The university and its students all get some shiny new building out of the deal. Their cost is the name of the building (i.e. no cost) and a couple of freshman spots. Pretty good value, really.



    Quite different from a cheat and bribe scam.


    True but from a high level the process is the same Money in = favor out. Either way it involves buying preferential treatment.
  • Steele47Steele47 Members Posts: 1,445 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Any good restaurant analogies in here yet?
  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭✭✭✭


    yes what these parents did was criminal and hopefully they are held accountable.



    but outside of this, i think this is yet another indictment of our higher education system. funny how kids who don't have the academics to get into these schools don't flunk out. its because the coursework has been dumbed down. these rich kids and their parents aren't cheating the system because they want their kid to get a good education. they want them to go to school and make connections with other rich kids and their parents.



    its funny, when this story broke the laughlin daughter was in the bahamas on a yacht owned by rick caruso, the chairman of usc board of trustees. sounds like she's making those connections fairly quick



    you can basically buy your credentials if you're rich enough. if USC has any academic standards, rich kids who were lazy or not all that bright would simply fail out. instead these colleges are set up graduate whoever gets in, which is exactly why all that matters is that you get in.



    its been a few decades since i've had to apply to colleges, so i'm not sure if rich people like phil hire these companies out of convenience so they don't have to mess with the applications process or if its a case of actually getting an advantage as these companies can tailor essays, send to admission contacts that may not be available to the public, etc etc.



    either way i don't find the revelation that people will accept large bribes or that rich people will make bribes to give their kids an advantage all that shocking.


    I'll be interested to see if they prosecute these cases to the fullest extent possible. Most likely, there will be some settlement along the way. I understand there is risk-reward in taking a case to court. However, I believe this ultimately enforces the idea that the rules don't apply to the wealthy. Just say your sorry, pay some fines, and make the problem go away. No one likes cutting a check but I don't think someone worth $100 MM+ paying 10% or so of their worth [of course, the specific numbers are debatable] to stay out of jail really deters the illegal behavior for the rest of their class. Other than murder, it seems like no one really faces the sentence they could be given.
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  • agolf1 wrote:


    extrastiff wrote:

    nohny noke wrote:



    I want to know who at the university is collecting all that money? I assume that's the person in a boatload of trouble.




    I don't think any university admissions people were named in the indictment.



    Collegiate coaches were, however.
    celebrities were purposefully "chosen" imo as scapegoats so we would all be distracted from the fact that universities promote/accept these practices, both illegally, as well as through legacy institutions.



    The scam has hit the tour, money creates opportunity for many college golfers. But I doubt this "scam" will spread... to many institutions will fight to contain it




    Yes sir







    I thought about this while eating dinner.



    I'd bet anything someone important and their kid was involved and this is the give up to cover for them.



    As in we can't out so and so. But we can give you all these people who have nothing on us or don't donate enough to the general fund ..( the schools ).



    I always pay attention to these type things. The general public buys it as clean because on their eyes 90s sitcom stars are important people. In reality they aren't at all. They just made enough money to get into the right circles and marry up and retire at 30.



    That and the fact that only idiots would use a stupid story like fake atheletics As the fence to make this happen. The big dogs Just make it happen minus cash exchanging hands. Favors of certain weight are worth more anyway and are much harder to prove. These amateurs paid by check id bet. Lol.


    I would mostly agree with this. The thing I would add is people like Phil (wealth and current status) don't make payments through an agent. Or, at least they don't make payments through an agent that other random people use. Aunt Becky probably isn't starving for food or living in the ghetto, but she's a nobody in the grand scheme of things.



    And I'm not implying Phil is guilty. I have no idea.




    Brown and stinky but yes, hard to say what Phil has done.
  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers Posts: 28,660 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Steele47 wrote:


    Any good restaurant analogies in here yet?




    OK, so let's say that you own a chain of successful restaurants and are worth 1B dollars, and your kid isn't smart enough to get into college. Are we saying it's now wrong to pay someone to take their tests for them ?
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  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Open Championship! IowaClubWRX Posts: 18,281 ClubWRX
    Konklifer wrote:

    Hawkeye77 wrote:

    Konklifer wrote:

    Hawkeye77 wrote:

    Konklifer wrote:




    Here are the names, you could have read them yesterday. https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/investigations-college-admissions-and-testing-bribery-scheme



    Let me know which ones are the Tour players.




    I read it already, but thanks. He helped 761 families. Here is his admission. You could have read it a couple days ago: [url="https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/college-cheating-mastermind-says-he-helped-nearly-800-families-admissions-n982666"]https://www.nbcnews....issions-n982666[/url]



    But, by your logic, all investigation ceases as soon as charges are filed. Got it.



    I asked if it will affect tour players based on Phil's comment. I never said any were involved. Perhaps re-read my OP to refresh your memory.



    I have nothing against Phil, but he brought it up. Show me a statement from Vaughn Taylor on the subject, and I'll edit my original post just for you.




    So basically the original post was pointless as to any impact on golf and just news of the day.



    Scam not hitting the Tour. OK.






    I fixed the title so that you may understand.




    OK, so like, “Will hurricane Penelope demolish Utah?”

    MtlJeff wrote:

    Steele47 wrote:


    Any good restaurant analogies in here yet?




    OK, so let's say that you own a chain of successful restaurants and are worth 1B dollars, and your kid isn't smart enough to get into college. Are we saying it's now wrong to pay someone to take their tests for them ?




    Depends on the tip!
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Open Championship! IowaClubWRX Posts: 18,281 ClubWRX
    MtlJeff wrote:

    Steele47 wrote:


    Any good restaurant analogies in here yet?




    OK, so let's say that you own a chain of successful restaurants and are worth 1B dollars, and your kid isn't smart enough to get into college. Are we saying it's now wrong to pay someone to take their tests for them ?




    Depends on the tip!
  • mankumanku Members Posts: 781 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here is a link to an article regarding Phil and kids:



    https://www.golf.com/news/2019/03/16/phil-mickelson-college-scandal-children/



    A couple things: If you're kids are really exceptional, there is no way you are looking at three dozen colleges. And two, his grandiose bragging about his kids is fairly off putting, IMHO ("worldly views"???, colleges "Fighting over them").



    I'm not sure why people are upset about wealthy mega donors getting their kids in...if a person donated $50mm to build a library that the entire student body can use, then having a few of their offspring in school is a small price to pay. It's a totally different situation than bribing a school official and lining his personal pockets.

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