Seduced by Distance Irons...

[Popeye64]

> @LaymanM said:

> Hmm have no gap issues with my G410 irons. They are about 10 yards evenly spaced through my set. With saying that, I wouldn't play a set that didn't gap out correctly. I've also shot par twice with G410 which is a first for this 7 handicap so there is that too!

 

Well then your set is just about perfect for you. 10 yard gaps are great

[Popeye64]

> @NC_Indy said:

> Aren't most people ignoring the reason for the strong lofts? The manufacturers were able to get a 30.5 degree 7 iron to fly as high as a 36 degree seven iron and that continues down the bag. If they're going the same height but you're gaining yardage it's generally speaking a net positive for consumers. When you gain distance your gaps will naturally increase, that's not an inherent problem from the strong lofts but rather the distance as you just have the same amount of clubs to hit over more distance. That's for the consumer to decide if they want further distance but further gaps (15-20 yds) or less distance but tighter gaps (10-12 yds). A pros gaps are 15-20 yards, that's just what happens when you hit a 4i 245 yards. Is it better for the consumer to be able to hit a four iron that still goes into the air 220 yards but be in between clubs more often from 140-190 or hit a four iron 200 yards but always be able to fit a full club just being 5 yards to long or 5 yards to short? As a personal anecdote, I was playing very traditional loft mp-57s (36 degree seven iron loft). My seven iron only went 155 yards. Gaining 20 yards per club, flying the same height or higher, and going from 7700 spin to 6300 spin was a great trade-off for my my game. If I had a better swing and was hitting that same seven iron 165-170 I wouldn't have considered the new clubs.

 

That point of being able to take a full swing and be 5 yards either way is vitally important. I still have a lot of swingspeed so the jacked lofts while flying higher and coming down steeper is great for my long irons. Just not so much for my scoring irons as the gaps are too big. But your point about being able to make full swings is right on the money.

[Popeye64]

> @RainShadow said:

> My Problem with these " Players Distance" irons is the lack of spin.

> When I can't hold stop a ball within 15ft or so with a 7 iron it's not working for me.

> I've tried the '14 Apex ( Best of the bunch), Rogue Pro ( good feel, not enough spin for me) and a few others.

> Currently playing Cobra Forged Tec Black. These and the 919 Forged had 6800-7100 RPM with roughly the close to the same loft in the 7 iron ( Miz 32*, FTB 30*) With Modus 105 stiff

>

 

Have you experimented with trying to find a ball that will spin as you need? Probably a silly question..

[pinestreetgolf]

> @kiwihacker said:

> > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > @kiwihacker said:

> > > Good thread. In so many of these discussions the stock response is "who cares what the number stamped on the bottom of the club is?" But that misses the point that the gaps are different because the number stamped on the bottom DOES MATTER. For all the jacked lofts in the long/mid/short irons and even the PW the GW and SW still seem to be sacrosanct at approx 50° and 55° respectively. So when you're starting your iron set with a 24-25° 6 iron vs an old school 4 iron you have two less clubs to get to the magic 50° GW. See below. Old school 24° would be a 4 iron, modern jacked loft a 5 iron and super jacked lofts a 25-26° 6 iron. So 5-6° gaps become necessary in the mid/short irons in order to get to a 49-50° GW.

> > >

> > > Old school Jacked Lofts Super Jacked

> > > 24° 24° 25°

> > > 27° 27° 29°

> > > 31° 31° 34°

> > > 35° 35° 39°

> > > 39° 40° 44°

> > > 43° 45° 50°

> > > 47° 50° 55°

> > > 51° 55°

> > > 56°

> > >

> > > So whilst it may feel great to be nailing that 29° 7 iron as far as your buddy is hitting his old school 5 iron how is the gapping in the scoring clubs 7-GW?

> >

> > To someone without club head speed, more irons lower is much better. To someone with speed to spare, tighter yardages up top is better.

> >

> > As always, its good to have both options and is dependent on the golfer. Try watching someone who swings a 7 iron 70 mph try to get a 24* 4 iron to gap well with a 21* 3 iron. Nuts.

> >

> > So, as usual, both sides are wrong. Some players want A, some want B. Trying to say "A is better than B" is impossible in golf. Jacked lofts are not just for ego. They are also for guys who can't get the ball off the ground without them.

>

> Not sure I understand? Jacked lofts are for guys who can't get the ball off the ground without them? So ... lower lofts help them get the ball off the ground?

>

> But the slower swing speed player benefits from bigger gaps in lofts between clubs? I can understand that because 4° gaps may mean he's hitting two clubs a pretty similar distance.

>

> Regarding your 21° 3 iron gapping vs 24° 4 iron that is the reason most of us switched to hybrids about 15 years ago. Many still carry a 4 iron but with the new stronger lofts many are starting instead with a 5 iron or 6 iron.

 

No, lower lofts help the clubs still be playable (i.e. purchasable) by players with high swing speeds and the technology in the irons help distance for players with slower swing speeds. It would be awesome if every golfer were self-aware enough to say "you know what? I don't have the swing speed for a 200 yard 5 iron so I'll play a hybrid there" but that isn't reality. So the OEMs make it so a 5 iron goes 200 for somebody who thinks he swings a lot faster than he actually does.

 

i said "players want" not "smart, educated player objectively analyzes his game and then wants"

[disco111]

Stronger lofts for slower swing speeds "should" equate to more distance, but I'm not that sure. Perhaps it's just me and my swing, but a 7 iron at 30* you would think should go past 150 yds. Tested that iron (MAC-NVG2) against a Tour Edge bazooka (34*) both on the course and at Dicks on their swing fitting computer. Both times at 73 mph SS, carry was 135 at best for both clubs. On the course from 150, both were 2 feet apart and short of the green by 10 yds. To say I'm confused and underwhelmed is correct.

[RainShadow]

> @Popeye64 said:

> > @RainShadow said:

> > My Problem with these " Players Distance" irons is the lack of spin.

> > When I can't hold stop a ball within 15ft or so with a 7 iron it's not working for me.

> > I've tried the '14 Apex ( Best of the bunch), Rogue Pro ( good feel, not enough spin for me) and a few others.

> > Currently playing Cobra Forged Tec Black. These and the 919 Forged had 6800-7100 RPM with roughly the close to the same loft in the 7 iron ( Miz 32*, FTB 30*) With Modus 105 stiff

> >

>

> Have you experimented with trying to find a ball that will spin as you need? Probably a silly question..

Already play good, fairly spinny balls. Chrome Soft, FG Tour, ProV1 etc.

 

 

[NRJyzr]

> @NC_Indy said:

> Aren't most people ignoring the reason for the strong lofts? The manufacturers were able to get a 30.5 degree 7 iron to fly as high as a 36 degree seven iron and that continues down the bag. If they're going the same height but you're gaining yardage it's generally speaking a net positive for consumers. When you gain distance your gaps will naturally increase, that's not an inherent problem from the strong lofts but rather the distance as you just have the same amount of clubs to hit over more distance. That's for the consumer to decide if they want further distance but further gaps (15-20 yds) or less distance but tighter gaps (10-12 yds). A pros gaps are 15-20 yards, that's just what happens when you hit a 4i 245 yards. Is it better for the consumer to be able to hit a four iron that still goes into the air 220 yards but be in between clubs more often from 140-190 or hit a four iron 200 yards but always be able to fit a full club just being 5 yards to long or 5 yards to short? As a personal anecdote, I was playing very traditional loft mp-57s (36 degree seven iron loft). My seven iron only went 155 yards. Gaining 20 yards per club, flying the same height or higher, and going from 7700 spin to 6300 spin was a great trade-off for my my game. If I had a better swing and was hitting that same seven iron 165-170 I wouldn't have considered the new clubs.

 

 

I'm surprised it took this long for someone to trot out the marketing mantra. Which has been refuted by one Tom Wishon. Several times.

 

In his words, there's no reason for the ever decreasing iron lofts other than selling distance.

 

You can always find individual iron designs that hit higher than others. I can do that in my own collection, including finding older irons that hit higher than newer irons. :)

[S.A. OSO]

> @Popeye64 said:

> > @Snowman9000 said:

> > > @Popeye64 said:

> > > I have been a career blade style player with pretty close to traditional lofts. I had some KBS 105s shafts in my MMBs and I just didn't like the combo. Maltby came out with the TS-2 irons and I was definitely smitten with the clubs. Feel, ease of playing and wow... did they go far. I played a full season with them and had an excellent GIR last year but wasnt so close to the hole.

> > > Gw was 120y. PW was 140 y, 9i was 158 y.. The issue was,,, I was having to go less than full swing on alot of holes or step on an iron to get it into a distance window. I am long enough off the tee that most of my second shots are inside 150.

> > > So having a set of MMB heads laying around I shafted them up with some Paderson Ts shafts. Love them by the way.

> > > Putting them back in play and being traditionally lofted I now am at 58° 70 Y.. 54° 95 Y.. GW 105.. PW 120.. 9 135.. 8 150.

> > > I have been bombing the flag again with the much tighter gaps with the irons. But I'm still using the TS-2 5 and 6 iron. But I am also using MMB 6 iron. There is a 4° gap between the 6 irons and it's a nice fit.

> > > So yes I was sucked in on the distance iron craze,,, but it wound up being a comprise in my game.

> > > How many of you guys have gone back to old school lofts.

> >

> > Very interesting review.

> > Are the MMB's tighter as far as distance dispersion than the TS-2's? That's what I would expect.

> > Is it a matter of spin? I would think the TS-2 would spin less, and that could result in looser distance control. Not from the standpoint of sticking near the landing spot, but from the fact that spin reduction probably makes for more variation in carry distance.

>

> I had a year with the TS-2 clubs and first off the distance control is excellent. They have a higher COG so they launch noticeably lower and say 7 iron to 7 iron they spin less but they are also much stronger on the loft. But with that said they did stop very well on the greens. The MMB do fly higher and the angle of gecent is fairly steep. Using a Bridgestone Tour BXS the ball stops in the ball mark almost every time. They will suck back a foot or so after hoping forward. This spin back of the MMBs has been very consistent so I have been having precise distance control. With the tighter gapping I am able to take confident full swings to get my yardages. Not trying to feather a ball in or step on an iron the fill a gap. That alone has made a huge difference in scoring.

> Here is the difference in loft between the TS-2 and the MMB

> TS-2. MMB

> G 49. 51

> P 44. 47

> 9 39. 43

> 8 34. 39

> 7 30. 35

> 6 27. 31

> 5 24. 27

> So you can see how the gapping of the MMB is much tighter. So of the loft gaps in the TS-2 are 5 degrees With the MMBs I find I have a few options to hit the green inside of 160 where with the TS-2 the gaps are so big that you really only have the one club option. So my carrying an MMB 6 iron and a TS-2 6 iron I have a 4 degree gap and what is essentially a 5 and 4 iron that are SGI irons. They are stupid easy to hit and very reliable. So even though they are vastly different in there build design they work very well as a combo set. My playing partner the other day said at the end of the round.... if I change the setup I have right now I would be crazy. He said i had the perfect club for every shot today.

 

==============================================================================================================================================

 

This is interesting and I have done something similar with my set. I have MMBs 5-PW and use the Maltby HDI 5 hybrid. The MMB 5i loft is 27 and the HDI 5H is 24. The MMB 5i tops out at 180 and the 5H is good for 185+ shots. Both clubs say "5" on them but they are really 2 separate irons.

[puttingmatt]

Other than soothing your own ego, what do you really gain from playing jacked lofts ? Might make you feel better, but does not make you better, and

most golfers are well aware of the new jacked lofts

on clubs these days, meaning they know your seven iron equals their five iron for loft. Make bragging about iron distances mute.

[Popeye64]

> @"S.A. OSO" said:

> > @Popeye64 said:

> > > @Snowman9000 said:

> > > > @Popeye64 said:

> > > > I have been a career blade style player with pretty close to traditional lofts. I had some KBS 105s shafts in my MMBs and I just didn't like the combo. Maltby came out with the TS-2 irons and I was definitely smitten with the clubs. Feel, ease of playing and wow... did they go far. I played a full season with them and had an excellent GIR last year but wasnt so close to the hole.

> > > > Gw was 120y. PW was 140 y, 9i was 158 y.. The issue was,,, I was having to go less than full swing on alot of holes or step on an iron to get it into a distance window. I am long enough off the tee that most of my second shots are inside 150.

> > > > So having a set of MMB heads laying around I shafted them up with some Paderson Ts shafts. Love them by the way.

> > > > Putting them back in play and being traditionally lofted I now am at 58° 70 Y.. 54° 95 Y.. GW 105.. PW 120.. 9 135.. 8 150.

> > > > I have been bombing the flag again with the much tighter gaps with the irons. But I'm still using the TS-2 5 and 6 iron. But I am also using MMB 6 iron. There is a 4° gap between the 6 irons and it's a nice fit.

> > > > So yes I was sucked in on the distance iron craze,,, but it wound up being a comprise in my game.

> > > > How many of you guys have gone back to old school lofts.

> > >

> > > Very interesting review.

> > > Are the MMB's tighter as far as distance dispersion than the TS-2's? That's what I would expect.

> > > Is it a matter of spin? I would think the TS-2 would spin less, and that could result in looser distance control. Not from the standpoint of sticking near the landing spot, but from the fact that spin reduction probably makes for more variation in carry distance.

> >

> > I had a year with the TS-2 clubs and first off the distance control is excellent. They have a higher COG so they launch noticeably lower and say 7 iron to 7 iron they spin less but they are also much stronger on the loft. But with that said they did stop very well on the greens. The MMB do fly higher and the angle of gecent is fairly steep. Using a Bridgestone Tour BXS the ball stops in the ball mark almost every time. They will suck back a foot or so after hoping forward. This spin back of the MMBs has been very consistent so I have been having precise distance control. With the tighter gapping I am able to take confident full swings to get my yardages. Not trying to feather a ball in or step on an iron the fill a gap. That alone has made a huge difference in scoring.

> > Here is the difference in loft between the TS-2 and the MMB

> > TS-2. MMB

> > G 49. 51

> > P 44. 47

> > 9 39. 43

> > 8 34. 39

> > 7 30. 35

> > 6 27. 31

> > 5 24. 27

> > So you can see how the gapping of the MMB is much tighter. So of the loft gaps in the TS-2 are 5 degrees With the MMBs I find I have a few options to hit the green inside of 160 where with the TS-2 the gaps are so big that you really only have the one club option. So my carrying an MMB 6 iron and a TS-2 6 iron I have a 4 degree gap and what is essentially a 5 and 4 iron that are SGI irons. They are stupid easy to hit and very reliable. So even though they are vastly different in there build design they work very well as a combo set. My playing partner the other day said at the end of the round.... if I change the setup I have right now I would be crazy. He said i had the perfect club for every shot today.

>

> ==============================================================================================================================================

>

> This is interesting and I have done something similar with my set. I have MMBs 5-PW and use the Maltby HDI 5 hybrid. The MMB 5i loft is 27 and the HDI 5H is 24. The MMB 5i tops out at 180 and the 5H is good for 185+ shots. Both clubs say "5" on them but they are really 2 separate irons.

 

Now if they just could make a TS-2 in a DBM finish I would have an all black set. I know asking too much.

[gvogel]

I'm going in a different direction this year. I'm going back to standard lofts (33* or 34* 7-iron), and going 5-hybrid and 6-hybrid after my 7-wood. It's time.

[ChaosTheory]

> @gvogel said:

> I'm going in a different direction this year. I'm going back to standard lofts (33* or 34* 7-iron), and going 5-hybrid and 6-hybrid after my 7-wood. It's time.

 

I've found that my shortest hybrid determines what my iron lofts need to be. Forever, I've been happy with a 30 degree 6 iron, but now I need a 28 degree to get the right gap. Beyond that issue, I don't care what number is on the bottom.

[FormerBigDaddy]

This is one of the reasons why I have a hard time giving up my Taylormade 2005 TP CB’s. Traditional lofts just make gapping so much easier for me. 48 degree PW and 22 degree 3 iron. The guy I play with has an older set of pings and I think they play close to mine. He just ordered the new TW irons in the weaker lofts as well. I don’t think I’m losing much with my CB’s and I’m constantly lurking on eBay for replacement irons that are in good shape. Not looking to go stronger in lofts anytime soon. Couldn’t care less what iron I’m hitting around guys with distance irons when I’m smoking my driver 20 yds by them!

[IDrive300Fsport]

Distance irons are completely dumb in my opinion. Though I play Ping G700. I had Ping bend the lofts weaker for all irons. And my gapping between each club is spot on. Distance irons create gapping problems. I don’t care what people say. They absolutely do create gapping problems. It makes the game more expensive and harder. Cause most people aren’t gonna practice those odd ball yardages. They are gonna go out and buy more wedges to fill the gap. Titleist 718 AP1 are perfect examples of gapping issues. I seriously carried 6 wedges in my bag. PW, 48 wedge, 52 wedge, 55, 58, 61. Just to cover my short game. That seriously messed up The rest of my set up. Then I went to the Ping G700 bent weaker. Now I carry 4 wedges instead of 6. And it’s so much better. If person A can hit 170 yards as person b does. It’s no different. It’s the exact same yardage. But because in there heads they used a 8 iron vs 6 iron. They are always gonna feel like the badass golfer that can hit it further then you can. And that what the companies want.

[tannyhoban]

Play what works.

[lang30]

> @tannyhoban said:

> Play what works.

 

Exactly this. I don't understand why people get worked up about distance irons. Big deal if your buddy pulls out an 8 iron while you grab a 6 or 7. Golf should be fun and I'm not going to apologize to anyone because I choose to play clubs I enjoy - jacked lofts or not.

[BogeyParBogey]

> @IDrive300Fsport said:

> Distance irons are completely dumb in my opinion. Though I play Ping G700. I had Ping bend the lofts weaker for all irons. And my gapping between each club is spot on. Distance irons create gapping problems. I don’t care what people say. They absolutely do create gapping problems. It makes the game more expensive and harder. Cause most people aren’t gonna practice those odd ball yardages. They are gonna go out and buy more wedges to fill the gap. Titleist 718 AP1 are perfect examples of gapping issues. I seriously carried 6 wedges in my bag. PW, 48 wedge, 52 wedge, 55, 58, 61. Just to cover my short game. That seriously messed up The rest of my set up. Then I went to the Ping G700 bent weaker. Now I carry 4 wedges instead of 6. And it’s so much better. If person A can hit 170 yards as person b does. It’s no different. It’s the exact same yardage. But because in there heads they used a 8 iron vs 6 iron. They are always gonna feel like the badass golfer that can hit it further then you can. And that what the companies want.

 

The AP1 clubs are just effectively mislabeled. 43* PW is a 9 iron, etc... I consider the 48* set wedge a 10 iron and then move into traditional wedges.

 

Most guys who post here hit the ball a long ways. Sure, some exaggerate, but most really do strike the ball great. I'm not old yet and and still am not one of those guys. At my Titleist Thursday iron fitting a good AP1 7 iron ball speed is about 105 mph and it carries 145 yards give or take -- maybe average distance at the munis that I play, but REALLY REALLY short for this site. There potentially is a benefit to the AP1 set up for me. If the AP1s get me just less than a club and a half longer over say the AP2 I can carry the 37" AP1 7 iron 145 or the 37.5" AP2 6 iron 142.

 

If I choose AP1 over AP2 it isn't about bragging.

[IamMarkMac]

> @lang30 said:

> > @tannyhoban said:

> > Play what works.

>

> Exactly this. I don't understand why people get worked up about distance irons. Big deal if your buddy pulls out an 8 iron while you grab a 6 or 7. Golf should be fun and I'm not going to apologize to anyone because I choose to play clubs I enjoy - jacked lofts or not.

 

People get worked up because distance "gloat" is a real thing. And some people can't stand it when someone is pleased with himself reaching a 150y par 3 with an 8i that's jacked because that person should somehow understand that he didn't really hit an 8i to 150y and he doesn't hit as far as the person who hit the green with the traditionally lofted 8i.

I find that you need to be a pretty good golfer to just let that go. If you're having trouble with distance/accuracy yourself, the gloater doesn't help and just kind of ticks you off.

 

[nostatic]

> @lang30 said:

> > @tannyhoban said:

> > Play what works.

>

> Exactly this. I don't understand why people get worked up about distance irons. Big deal if your buddy pulls out an 8 iron while you grab a 6 or 7. Golf should be fun and I'm not going to apologize to anyone because I choose to play clubs I enjoy - jacked lofts or not.

 

^^^ this. The loft to iron # relationship isn't sacrosanct or absolute. I use the number on the iron as a reference for how far it goes in my hands - not as a way to compare it to other players.

[lang30]

> @IamMarkMac said:

> > @lang30 said:

> > > @tannyhoban said:

> > > Play what works.

> >

> > Exactly this. I don't understand why people get worked up about distance irons. Big deal if your buddy pulls out an 8 iron while you grab a 6 or 7. Golf should be fun and I'm not going to apologize to anyone because I choose to play clubs I enjoy - jacked lofts or not.

>

> People get worked up because distance "gloat" is a real thing. And some people can't stand it when someone is pleased with himself reaching a 150y par 3 with an 8i that's jacked because that person should somehow understand that he didn't really hit an 8i to 150y and he doesn't hit as far as the person who hit the green with the traditionally lofted 8i.

> I find that you need to be a pretty good golfer to just let that go. If you're having trouble with distance/accuracy yourself, the gloater doesn't help and just kind of ticks you off.

>

 

I know you are right that there are gloaters out there, but surely in some cases the person is genuinely happy with the result of a shot. If asked what iron i hit and i get a response like, "wow, big hitter", I always mention my irons are strong lofted.

 

Should we give everybody blade irons at the same specs and go back to persimmon drivers? Probably need to get rid of distance balls too.

[IamMarkMac]

> @lang30 said:

> > @IamMarkMac said:

> > > @lang30 said:

> > > > @tannyhoban said:

> > > > Play what works.

> > >

> > > Exactly this. I don't understand why people get worked up about distance irons. Big deal if your buddy pulls out an 8 iron while you grab a 6 or 7. Golf should be fun and I'm not going to apologize to anyone because I choose to play clubs I enjoy - jacked lofts or not.

> >

> > People get worked up because distance "gloat" is a real thing. And some people can't stand it when someone is pleased with himself reaching a 150y par 3 with an 8i that's jacked because that person should somehow understand that he didn't really hit an 8i to 150y and he doesn't hit as far as the person who hit the green with the traditionally lofted 8i.

> > I find that you need to be a pretty good golfer to just let that go. If you're having trouble with distance/accuracy yourself, the gloater doesn't help and just kind of ticks you off.

> >

>

> I know you are right that there are gloaters out there, but surely in some cases the person is genuinely happy with the result of a shot. If asked what iron i hit and i get a response like, "wow, big hitter", I always mention my irons are strong lofted.

>

> Should we give everybody blade irons at the same specs and go back to persimmon drivers? Probably need to get rid of distance balls too.

 

Well you asked why people get worked up and that’s why I think they get worked up. Myself? If you tell me it’s an 8, it’s an 8.

I’ve played with more than one golfer that couldn’t stop gushing about how far they hit their new clubs that didn’t understand a lick about loft and only knew the number stamped on the club. I’m not about to explain jacked lofts to them nor do I want to rain on their parade like that.

You mention to others that your clubs are strong lofted, why do you even do that? If the person who said “big hitter” didn’t understand jacked lofts, he just enjoyed your shot and doesn’t care what the actual loft is. If the person did understand jacked lofts, then he was probably being sarcastic so who cares what he thinks?

[nostatic]

> @lang30 said:

> > @IamMarkMac said:

> > > @lang30 said:

> > > > @tannyhoban said:

> > > > Play what works.

> > >

> > > Exactly this. I don't understand why people get worked up about distance irons. Big deal if your buddy pulls out an 8 iron while you grab a 6 or 7. Golf should be fun and I'm not going to apologize to anyone because I choose to play clubs I enjoy - jacked lofts or not.

> >

> > People get worked up because distance "gloat" is a real thing. And some people can't stand it when someone is pleased with himself reaching a 150y par 3 with an 8i that's jacked because that person should somehow understand that he didn't really hit an 8i to 150y and he doesn't hit as far as the person who hit the green with the traditionally lofted 8i.

> > I find that you need to be a pretty good golfer to just let that go. If you're having trouble with distance/accuracy yourself, the gloater doesn't help and just kind of ticks you off.

> >

>

> I know you are right that there are gloaters out there, but surely in some cases the person is genuinely happy with the result of a shot. If asked what iron i hit and i get a response like, "wow, big hitter", I always mention my irons are strong lofted.

>

> Should we give everybody blade irons at the same specs and go back to persimmon drivers? Probably need to get rid of distance balls too.

 

I'm genuinely happy when someone I'm playing with hits a good shot. Since I don't get paid to play, I'm competing against the course and my own shortcomings. Doesn't make a difference either way if someone gloats over a shot. That gloat will go away soon enough because...golf.

[IamMarkMac]

> @nostatic said:

> > @lang30 said:

> > > @IamMarkMac said:

> > > > @lang30 said:

> > > > > @tannyhoban said:

> > > > > Play what works.

> > > >

> > > > Exactly this. I don't understand why people get worked up about distance irons. Big deal if your buddy pulls out an 8 iron while you grab a 6 or 7. Golf should be fun and I'm not going to apologize to anyone because I choose to play clubs I enjoy - jacked lofts or not.

> > >

> > > People get worked up because distance "gloat" is a real thing. And some people can't stand it when someone is pleased with himself reaching a 150y par 3 with an 8i that's jacked because that person should somehow understand that he didn't really hit an 8i to 150y and he doesn't hit as far as the person who hit the green with the traditionally lofted 8i.

> > > I find that you need to be a pretty good golfer to just let that go. If you're having trouble with distance/accuracy yourself, the gloater doesn't help and just kind of ticks you off.

> > >

> >

> > I know you are right that there are gloaters out there, but surely in some cases the person is genuinely happy with the result of a shot. If asked what iron i hit and i get a response like, "wow, big hitter", I always mention my irons are strong lofted.

> >

> > Should we give everybody blade irons at the same specs and go back to persimmon drivers? Probably need to get rid of distance balls too.

>

> I'm genuinely happy when someone I'm playing with hits a good shot. Since I don't get paid to play, I'm competing against the course and my own shortcomings. Doesn't make a difference either way if someone gloats over a shot. That gloat will go away soon enough because...golf.

 

Make no mistake, I feel most people are like you and we’re just all happy to be playing. But golf is a sport with a lion’s share of sticklers and stick-up-their-a**es and they’re all too happy to remind you that you didn’t really hit an 8i when they used a 7i.

[kiwihacker]

My problem with jacked lofts is nothing to do with bragging rights or distance or how far my playing partners hits their clubs. Look at the lofts below. The so called 'traditional' lofts were a 21-22° 3 iron and 47-48° PW. Strong lofts were still the same or similar in the 3-5 irons it was just the mid to short irons that were stronger finishing with a 45° PW. Now the 4i is 20° i.e. stronger than the old 'hard to hit' 3 iron that we replaced with hybrids. This continues through the long-middle irons. Then the club manufacturers realise that whilst its OK ( in their eyes at least) to have a 43-45° PW they still need to round out the set with a 50° Gap Wedge. So the scoring clubs have loft increments of 5-6° to bail them out.

 

Traditional/Strong/Modern Jacked

3i /21/21/-

4i /24/24/20

5i /27/27/23

6i /31/30/26

7i /35/33/30

8i /39/37/34

9i /43/41/39

PW /47/45/44

GW /51/50/50

 

So to convert my 'traditional' lofted irons to modern distance irons all I have to do is pretend my 4-9 (24°-43°) irons are actually stamped 5-PW, throw out the 47° PW and go straight to a 50° Gap wedge. Voila! I now have an awesome set of 'Distance' irons. I just hope I don't airmail too many greens with these awesome new irons. :wink:

 

I think I will struggle with the 30 yard gap between my 'Distance' 43° PW and 50° GW though. Not ideal in your 'scoring' clubs I wouldn't have thought.

[tannyhoban]

A gloater is gonna gloat. Tell 'em nice shot and move on.

[Myherobobhope]

> @kiwihacker said:

> My problem with jacked lofts is nothing to do with bragging rights or distance or how far my playing partners hits their clubs. Look at the lofts below. The so called 'traditional' lofts were a 21-22° 3 iron and 47-48° PW. Strong lofts were still the same or similar in the 3-5 irons it was just the mid to short irons that were stronger finishing with a 45° PW. Now the 4i is 20° i.e. stronger than the old 'hard to hit' 3 iron that we replaced with hybrids. This continues through the long-middle irons. Then the club manufacturers realise that whilst its OK ( in their eyes at least) to have a 43-45° PW they still need to round out the set with a 50° Gap Wedge. So the scoring clubs have loft increments of 5-6° to bail them out.

>

> Traditional/Strong/Modern Jacked

> 3i /21/21/-

> 4i /24/24/20

> 5i /27/27/23

> 6i /31/30/26

> 7i /35/33/30

> 8i /39/37/34

> 9i /43/41/39

> PW /47/45/44

> GW /51/50/50

>

> So to convert my 'traditional' lofted irons to modern distance irons all I have to do is pretend my 4-9 (24°-43°) irons are actually stamped 5-PW, throw out the 47° PW and go straight to a 50° Gap wedge. Voila! I now have an awesome set of 'Distance' irons. I just hope I don't airmail too many greens with these awesome new irons. :wink:

>

> I think I will struggle with the 30 yard gap between my 'Distance' 43° PW and 50° GW though. Not ideal in your 'scoring' clubs I wouldn't have thought.

I just bought my first new jacked loft pw (and a 50 degree gap wedge to go with it)... I’m just hoping it improves my game. Don’t care about what the actual loft is.

 

[lang30]

> @IamMarkMac said:

> > @lang30 said:

> > > @IamMarkMac said:

> > > > @lang30 said:

> > > > > @tannyhoban said:

> > > > > Play what works.

> > > >

> > > > Exactly this. I don't understand why people get worked up about distance irons. Big deal if your buddy pulls out an 8 iron while you grab a 6 or 7. Golf should be fun and I'm not going to apologize to anyone because I choose to play clubs I enjoy - jacked lofts or not.

> > >

> > > People get worked up because distance "gloat" is a real thing. And some people can't stand it when someone is pleased with himself reaching a 150y par 3 with an 8i that's jacked because that person should somehow understand that he didn't really hit an 8i to 150y and he doesn't hit as far as the person who hit the green with the traditionally lofted 8i.

> > > I find that you need to be a pretty good golfer to just let that go. If you're having trouble with distance/accuracy yourself, the gloater doesn't help and just kind of ticks you off.

> > >

> >

> > I know you are right that there are gloaters out there, but surely in some cases the person is genuinely happy with the result of a shot. If asked what iron i hit and i get a response like, "wow, big hitter", I always mention my irons are strong lofted.

> >

> > Should we give everybody blade irons at the same specs and go back to persimmon drivers? Probably need to get rid of distance balls too.

>

> Well you asked why people get worked up and that’s why I think they get worked up. Myself? If you tell me it’s an 8, it’s an 8.

> I’ve played with more than one golfer that couldn’t stop gushing about how far they hit their new clubs that didn’t understand a lick about loft and only knew the number stamped on the club. I’m not about to explain jacked lofts to them nor do I want to rain on their parade like that.

> You mention to others that your clubs are strong lofted, why do you even do that? If the person who said “big hitter” didn’t understand jacked lofts, he just enjoyed your shot and doesn’t care what the actual loft is. If the person did understand jacked lofts, then he was probably being sarcastic so who cares what he thinks?

 

Why do I do that? I'm just making a statement of fact on my equipment.

 

As for your distance gloat concern, you really have few options - ignore it and move on, sort it out when you both tee up a driver, or maybe grab yourself some jacked clubs.

 

If you want to convince Cobra to stamp 2 thru 9 or 3 thru P on my currently labeled 4 thru G irons, I'm happy to play those instead.

[kiwihacker]

> @Myherobobhope said:

> > @kiwihacker said:

> > My problem with jacked lofts is nothing to do with bragging rights or distance or how far my playing partners hits their clubs. Look at the lofts below. The so called 'traditional' lofts were a 21-22° 3 iron and 47-48° PW. Strong lofts were still the same or similar in the 3-5 irons it was just the mid to short irons that were stronger finishing with a 45° PW. Now the 4i is 20° i.e. stronger than the old 'hard to hit' 3 iron that we replaced with hybrids. This continues through the long-middle irons. Then the club manufacturers realise that whilst its OK ( in their eyes at least) to have a 43-45° PW they still need to round out the set with a 50° Gap Wedge. So the scoring clubs have loft increments of 5-6° to bail them out.

> >

> > Traditional/Strong/Modern Jacked

> > 3i /21/21/-

> > 4i /24/24/20

> > 5i /27/27/23

> > 6i /31/30/26

> > 7i /35/33/30

> > 8i /39/37/34

> > 9i /43/41/39

> > PW /47/45/44

> > GW /51/50/50

> >

> > So to convert my 'traditional' lofted irons to modern distance irons all I have to do is pretend my 4-9 (24°-43°) irons are actually stamped 5-PW, throw out the 47° PW and go straight to a 50° Gap wedge. Voila! I now have an awesome set of 'Distance' irons. I just hope I don't airmail too many greens with these awesome new irons. :wink:

> >

> > I think I will struggle with the 30 yard gap between my 'Distance' 43° PW and 50° GW though. Not ideal in your 'scoring' clubs I wouldn't have thought.

> I just bought my first new jacked loft pw (and a 50 degree gap wedge to go with it)... I’m just hoping it improves my game. Don’t care about what the actual loft is.

>

What did you get?

 

[wmblake2000]

The thing I don’t understood and the argument for stronger lofts imo is you end up with, say, a traditional 6 iron loft with a 7 iron shaft length (and corresponding 7 iron sw and lie). But jacked lofts 5-gw roughly equals older 4-pw. Shorter is easier.

I mentioned this to Tom Wishon. He replied, disagreed but I didn’t understand his answer.

[NRJyzr]

> @wmblake2000 said:

> The thing I don’t understood and the argument for stronger lofts imo is you end up with, say, a traditional 6 iron loft with a 7 iron shaft length (and corresponding 7 iron sw and lie). But jacked lofts 5-gw roughly equals older 4-pw. Shorter is easier.

> I mentioned this to Tom Wishon. He replied, disagreed but I didn’t understand his answer.

 

 

5 iron used to be 30* to 32* and 37" long. These days, 7 irons are not infrequently around 30* to 32* and 37" long.

 

How about that? LOL

 

Not much different, eh?

 

Some like to bring up the marketing statements from the club manufacturers, saying they've strengthened lofts because CGs have moved lower and farther back. Which sounds great in theory, but it's not real in practice, as shown in the CG location data in Maltby's MPF.

 

Biggest issue in loft creep? Having to buy extra wedges, separate from the main iron set. Or hybrids, at the other end of the bag. Set in my bag right now is 3-pw with a GW and SW. Set in my bag most of last year is 2-pw with a SW as only additional wedge. Such as is my take, a lot easier to assemble the latter than the former.

 

Aside from the pure absurdity of taking what was 2-pw and replacing it with 5-pw, with three or even four wedges in top of the irons. Seems silly, at best.