It just me or are a lot of pros switching to Nippon Iron Shafts?

[Oknows]

Thx guys....appreciate the advice and info. So, from a guy coming from Tour V's in S, hardstepped 1x, the 125S hardstepped equivalent (39.5" installed in 4I) shouldn't be too stout, should it? I'd rather cut this 39.5" bad boy and install it the 4I first (= HS1x) and if it feels too stout, yank it, cut it and install it in the 5I as it's meant to be. I just don't think I'll be able to tell an accernable difference in flex but would welcome the tighter dispersion Mark spoke of.

 

Not to hijack the thread, but why are you moving away from the Tour V? Also interested in why you hardstepped them and what your results were. I was just fit into Tour V and was debating hardstepping them myself, but I've read on a couple of occasions that they play a little stiffer than labeled because of how stiff they are in the midsection. Fitter told me I was right on the edge of stiff and x-stiff in my irons, so I'm debating which way to go. Leaning toward just going straight in, but wouldn't mind the benefits of hardstepping. Appreciate any thoughts.

[Hifade]

Thx guys....appreciate the advice and info. So, from a guy coming from Tour V's in S, hardstepped 1x, the 125S hardstepped equivalent (39.5" installed in 4I) shouldn't be too stout, should it? I'd rather cut this 39.5" bad boy and install it the 4I first (= HS1x) and if it feels too stout, yank it, cut it and install it in the 5I as it's meant to be. I just don't think I'll be able to tell an accernable difference in flex but would welcome the tighter dispersion Mark spoke of.

 

Not to hijack the thread, but why are you moving away from the Tour V? Also interested in why you hardstepped them and what your results were. I was just fit into Tour V and was debating hardstepping them myself, but I've read on a couple of occasions that they play a little stiffer than labeled because of how stiff they are in the midsection. Fitter told me I was right on the edge of stiff and x-stiff in my irons, so I'm debating which way to go. Leaning toward just going straight in, but wouldn't mind the benefits of hardstepping. Appreciate any thoughts.

 

The hard-stepping of the Tour V's was almost an accident. I had hit the Tour V's as a stock option in the previous model of Cally's Apex Pros. I liked them, but they were slight off when I swung full out, as almost like they weren't timed right. I can say that because, with 1/2 and 3/4 shots hit, they were very solid and performed very well all the way through impact. What happened was I picked up a set of of the non-Pro Apex's and actually fell in love with them.....other than the shaft. Liking the performance of the Tour V's in the Pros, I decided to experiment with them in the Apex heads. What I noticed when I took the Apex apart was that the hosel depth was significantly deeper then that of the Pros. In comparison, the measurements were 1 9/16" for the Apex vs 1 3/32" for the Apex Pros. That is a fraction under 1/2" in length; which, in essence, is equal to hard-stepping. As a result, due to that insertion depth in the Apex's, the step patterns were 1/2" closer to the hosel and, therefore, identical to the Tour V's being hard-stepped one time. The results were that I can/could go after the Apex's a bit more and did not lose that timing I experienced when doing the same with the Pros. As unscientific as it may sound, I did do my best to eliminate variables by keeping swingweights identical between the two sets, same grips, etc. The long and short is........the shaft reacted to me better when "hard-stepped" vs straight in, in the Pros. The only other thing I could have done was to actually hard-step one in the set of Pros to see if the results were the same. However, I was satisfied with the Apex's performance and results, at that point, so I stopped tinkering there.

 

Now....the reason I switched (or am switching) from Tour V's is because I had experienced severe elbow pain after playing PX Satins back in the day. When I moved away from them, my elbows improved. When I went to KBS C-Tapers a few years ago, within 4 months, the elbow pain returned and worsened. I went away from them and, again, the elbow pain subsided. When I got a set of the Pros a couple years ago and started using the stock Tour V's, after nearly a whole season, the elbow pain was back again, but I've just endured. Keep in mind, I hit a ton of balls, so wear and tear is also considered as a contributing factor (along with age). All that said, I started looking at and experimenting with Recoils and Steelfibers as a potential remedy. The Recoils felt too loose to me and the Steelfiber's (95's and 110's) performed very well but were just a bit too light for me. As a matter of fact, I have a whole set in 4-PW of uncut Steelfiber 110's in S that are just sitting. I've hit the Nippons before and instantly noticed the sensation and softer feel. After reading a lot about their new offerings (Modus'), I decided to give them a shot. Now, there's no guarantee I won't continue to experience elbow issues but only time will tell......and some others here have reported that their elbow issues have gone away with Nippons, perhaps, due to the softer feel.

 

I hope that helps and explains the reasoning behind what I've done/tried and what I'm doing next. Don't get me wrong, I like the performance of the Tour V's as much as anything else to date.

[Oldboy]

Thx guys....appreciate the advice and info. So, from a guy coming from Tour V's in S, hardstepped 1x, the 125S hardstepped equivalent (39.5" installed in 4I) shouldn't be too stout, should it? I'd rather cut this 39.5" bad boy and install it the 4I first (= HS1x) and if it feels too stout, yank it, cut it and install it in the 5I as it's meant to be. I just don't think I'll be able to tell an accernable difference in flex but would welcome the tighter dispersion Mark spoke of.

 

Not to hijack the thread, but why are you moving away from the Tour V? Also interested in why you hardstepped them and what your results were. I was just fit into Tour V and was debating hardstepping them myself, but I've read on a couple of occasions that they play a little stiffer than labeled because of how stiff they are in the midsection. Fitter told me I was right on the edge of stiff and x-stiff in my irons, so I'm debating which way to go. Leaning toward just going straight in, but wouldn't mind the benefits of hardstepping. Appreciate any thoughts.

 

The hard-stepping of the Tour V's was almost an accident. I had hit the Tour V's as a stock option in the previous model of Cally's Apex Pros. I liked them, but they were slight off when I swung full out, as almost like they weren't timed right. I can say that because, with 1/2 and 3/4 shots hit, they were very solid and performed very well all the way through impact. What happened was I picked up a set of of the non-Pro Apex's and actually fell in love with them.....other than the shaft. Liking the performance of the Tour V's in the Pros, I decided to experiment with them in the Apex heads. What I noticed when I took the Apex apart was that the hosel depth was significantly deeper then that of the Pros. In comparison, the measurements were 1 9/16" for the Apex vs 1 3/32" for the Apex Pros. That is a fraction under 1/2" in length; which, in essence, is equal to hard-stepping. As a result, due to that insertion depth in the Apex's, the step patterns were 1/2" closer to the hosel and, therefore, identical to the Tour V's being hard-stepped one time. The results were that I can/could go after the Apex's a bit more and did not lose that timing I experienced when doing the same with the Pros. As unscientific as it may sound, I did do my best to eliminate variables by keeping swingweights identical between the two sets, same grips, etc. The long and short is........the shaft reacted to me better when "hard-stepped" vs straight in, in the Pros. The only other thing I could have done was to actually hard-step one in the set of Pros to see if the results were the same. However, I was satisfied with the Apex's performance and results, at that point, so I stopped tinkering there.

 

Now....the reason I switched (or am switching) from Tour V's is because I had experienced severe elbow pain after playing PX Satins back in the day. When I moved away from them, my elbows improved. When I went to KBS C-Tapers a few years ago, within 4 months, the elbow pain returned and worsened. I went away from them and, again, the elbow pain subsided. When I got a set of the Pros a couple years ago and started using the stock Tour V's, after nearly a whole season, the elbow pain was back again, but I've just endured. Keep in mind, I hit a ton of balls, so wear and tear is also considered as a contributing factor (along with age). All that said, I started looking at and experimenting with Recoils and Steelfibers as a potential remedy. The Recoils felt too loose to me and the Steelfiber's (95's and 110's) performed very well but were just a bit too light for me. As a matter of fact, I have a whole set in 4-PW of uncut Steelfiber 110's in S that are just sitting. I've hit the Nippons before and instantly noticed the sensation and softer feel. After reading a lot about their new offerings (Modus'), I decided to give them a shot. Now, there's no guarantee I won't continue to experience elbow issues but only time will tell......and some others here have reported that their elbow issues have gone away with Nippons, perhaps, due to the softer feel.

 

I hope that helps and explains the reasoning behind what I've done/tried and what I'm doing next. Don't get me wrong, I like the performance of the Tour V's as much as anything else to date.

 

I playe the tour v in the apex pros as well .. did you have any issues with the overall static weight increase going to the modus 125s .. its a 15gr increase or thereabouts is it not? thanks

[swizbeatz]

...

 

 

I had terrible elbow pain, went to nippons with prosoft inserts and I'm back to playing every day with no issues.

[Oknows]

HiFade thanks for the info. Dispersion with the v was the best in seen. Think I'm going to go straight in. Not getting any younger.

[Hifade]

Thx guys....appreciate the advice and info. So, from a guy coming from Tour V's in S, hardstepped 1x, the 125S hardstepped equivalent (39.5" installed in 4I) shouldn't be too stout, should it? I'd rather cut this 39.5" bad boy and install it the 4I first (= HS1x) and if it feels too stout, yank it, cut it and install it in the 5I as it's meant to be. I just don't think I'll be able to tell an accernable difference in flex but would welcome the tighter dispersion Mark spoke of.

 

Not to hijack the thread, but why are you moving away from the Tour V? Also interested in why you hardstepped them and what your results were. I was just fit into Tour V and was debating hardstepping them myself, but I've read on a couple of occasions that they play a little stiffer than labeled because of how stiff they are in the midsection. Fitter told me I was right on the edge of stiff and x-stiff in my irons, so I'm debating which way to go. Leaning toward just going straight in, but wouldn't mind the benefits of hardstepping. Appreciate any thoughts.

 

The hard-stepping of the Tour V's was almost an accident. I had hit the Tour V's as a stock option in the previous model of Cally's Apex Pros. I liked them, but they were slight off when I swung full out, as almost like they weren't timed right. I can say that because, with 1/2 and 3/4 shots hit, they were very solid and performed very well all the way through impact. What happened was I picked up a set of of the non-Pro Apex's and actually fell in love with them.....other than the shaft. Liking the performance of the Tour V's in the Pros, I decided to experiment with them in the Apex heads. What I noticed when I took the Apex apart was that the hosel depth was significantly deeper then that of the Pros. In comparison, the measurements were 1 9/16" for the Apex vs 1 3/32" for the Apex Pros. That is a fraction under 1/2" in length; which, in essence, is equal to hard-stepping. As a result, due to that insertion depth in the Apex's, the step patterns were 1/2" closer to the hosel and, therefore, identical to the Tour V's being hard-stepped one time. The results were that I can/could go after the Apex's a bit more and did not lose that timing I experienced when doing the same with the Pros. As unscientific as it may sound, I did do my best to eliminate variables by keeping swingweights identical between the two sets, same grips, etc. The long and short is........the shaft reacted to me better when "hard-stepped" vs straight in, in the Pros. The only other thing I could have done was to actually hard-step one in the set of Pros to see if the results were the same. However, I was satisfied with the Apex's performance and results, at that point, so I stopped tinkering there.

 

Now....the reason I switched (or am switching) from Tour V's is because I had experienced severe elbow pain after playing PX Satins back in the day. When I moved away from them, my elbows improved. When I went to KBS C-Tapers a few years ago, within 4 months, the elbow pain returned and worsened. I went away from them and, again, the elbow pain subsided. When I got a set of the Pros a couple years ago and started using the stock Tour V's, after nearly a whole season, the elbow pain was back again, but I've just endured. Keep in mind, I hit a ton of balls, so wear and tear is also considered as a contributing factor (along with age). All that said, I started looking at and experimenting with Recoils and Steelfibers as a potential remedy. The Recoils felt too loose to me and the Steelfiber's (95's and 110's) performed very well but were just a bit too light for me. As a matter of fact, I have a whole set in 4-PW of uncut Steelfiber 110's in S that are just sitting. I've hit the Nippons before and instantly noticed the sensation and softer feel. After reading a lot about their new offerings (Modus'), I decided to give them a shot. Now, there's no guarantee I won't continue to experience elbow issues but only time will tell......and some others here have reported that their elbow issues have gone away with Nippons, perhaps, due to the softer feel.

 

I hope that helps and explains the reasoning behind what I've done/tried and what I'm doing next. Don't get me wrong, I like the performance of the Tour V's as much as anything else to date.

 

I playe the tour v in the apex pros as well .. did you have any issues with the overall static weight increase going to the modus 125s .. its a 15gr increase or thereabouts is it not? thanks

 

Definitely felt heavier with the 125's but they may be a tad counterbalanced, so swingweight was only 1 point more, and neither were an issue for me. I suppose it's what you're used to or can get used to.

[drvrwdge]

So been having an inkling to going back to x100's. Hit a buddies irons last night with said shaft and was surprised with how much more "flex" I felt in transition of the shaft as compared to my Modus3 130's in S which are hard stepped once. Just an interesting little tidbit I wanted to share.

[jj9000]

Definitely felt heavier with the 125's but they may be a tad counterbalanced so swingweight was only 1 point morew and neither were an issue for me. I suppose it's what you're used to or can get used to.

 

Hifade...I sent you a PM.

[markheardjr]

So been having an inkling to going back to x100's. Hit a buddies irons last night with said shaft and was surprised with how much more "flex" I felt in transition of the shaft as compared to my Modus3 130's in S which are hard stepped once. Just an interesting little tidbit I wanted to share.

 

DG is softer butt and 130 is stiffer butt so you would feel more flex in the DG. That works for people with a smoother transition. People with more aggressive downswing and lag that soft DG butt can make it feel lose or you lose where you are, or the shaft is lagging against you and you can't time your release with good feel. So it's pretty different.

 

125 has some of that DG kick but it's more in the middle of the shaft, not the butt. I tend to feel like the 125 is working my forearms while the DG is working my wrists and I would rather not make my wrist overly tired. My forearms are larger and can catch up. Just how I feel.

 

120 sort of exacerbates that DG feel and goes even softer. To me it feels overly soft and I have to adjust my lag and kind of dump it early and I end up hitting thin pulled shots. Not a good feeling. But for someone with a very defined set at the top of their swing and then a wider arch with early/mid release down they may feel that 120 is working in their favor and kicking for them at the right time.

 

I'm just happy we have all these options from DG, Nippon, KBS, etc. Now we're getting lighter shafts that perform better than lightweight in the past. Options are good. Trying them all is hard though.

[Deuce78]

Mark, do you think the Zelos 7 would work well for kids 9 to 10 years old? I am thinking of making a set for my boy he uses the US kids now, but may piece a set together for him. They have the R2 flex, thinking I may soft step those once or twice....wondering if you or anyone here has tried them or heard anything along those lines...thanks.

[markheardjr]

Mark, do you think the Zelos 7 would work well for kids 9 to 10 years old? I am thinking of making a set for my boy he uses the US kids now, but may piece a set together for him. They have the R2 flex, thinking I may soft step those once or twice....wondering if you or anyone here has tried them or heard anything along those lines...thanks.

 

I actually have a set of Zelos 7 R flex I was given for funsies. I haven't really done anything with them. I built a set for my wife with some graphite shafts and matching grips and she doesn't play enough for me to tinker with her gear and buy more grips for her.

 

Everything I've been told and read is that the Zelos is like an ultralight graphite shaft but its steel and maintains the steel shaft integrity where graphite at that light weight often ovals and you lose stability/dispersion.

 

I would think a 6-10 year old might be strong enough for them and they would be light enough. I remember playing with some Dynalight shafts back when I was like 13 and they didn't feel overly heavy at 110g ish. I don't know the weight of US Kids clubs but their site says 20% lighter than adult clubs. Well Zelos 7 is more like 40%. I'd say try to weigh the US Kids club, total weight and swing weight. Then try the Zelos and weigh it total weight and swingweight and see what the differences are. Or obviously, check with a certified master clubbuilder for their inputs.

 

As far as flex, R2 is special order and will take longer and its only .5g lighter. I can't imagine the flex is all that much softer, maybe a soft-stepped like R felx.. Plus your kid will grow, so maybe try the R flex and let them grow into them? If they aren't ready yet, just let them use the US Kids a little longer and they can have a goal or milestone you set to get the new set.

[rodinho]

If anyone has a set 120 or 125 x in the UK that they're looking to move on please let me know!

[cliffhanger]

:stop: "Is it just me or" have we not learned everything we need to know about Nippon shafts after almost 3100 posts? :stop:

[BearQ]

:stop: "Is it just me or" have we not learned everything we need to know about Nippon shafts after almost 3100 posts? :stop:

 

I learned everything I needed to know about each shaft. 125 is the winner.

[Golfrnut]

Mark, do you think the Zelos 7 would work well for kids 9 to 10 years old? I am thinking of making a set for my boy he uses the US kids now, but may piece a set together for him. They have the R2 flex, thinking I may soft step those once or twice....wondering if you or anyone here has tried them or heard anything along those lines...thanks.

 

Keep the concerns more with the shaft weight. The loads from someone that young and the beam lengths of the shafts will be so short that you really will not see any flex. Of course you would stay somewhat soft in the profile to keep the harshness down, specially at impact, but weight will by far be the most important factor.

[swizbeatz]

Excited to compare 125 to 120 to super peening Orange, thanks again mark for putting those clubs together.

[markheardjr]

Excited to compare 125 to 120 to super peening Orange, thanks again mark for putting those clubs together.

 

125 to me is a slightly smoother ORA and ORA was a bit firmer than SPO. ORA has a bit more DG feel with the snap/thump recoil on the downswing so I'm thinking it could be a tad higher kick and a slightly stiffer tip.

 

SPO was a decent shaft but I just never got the right head combination with it. SPB was pretty stout and I actually had too low spin with it. Hit knuckleballs. I could manipulate trajectory pretty easily with them, hit some killer knock down PW's with SPB. 125 is pretty much a lighter SPB with a touch softer midsection for smoother feel IMO.

 

I think SPO/ORA is like a soft-stepped DG while 125 is like a SPB-lite. I know the ORA was used by some DG lovers.

[swizbeatz]

Excited to compare 125 to 120 to super peening Orange, thanks again mark for putting those clubs together.

 

125 to me is a slightly smoother ORA and ORA was a bit firmer than SPO. ORA has a bit more DG feel with the snap/thump recoil on the downswing so I'm thinking it could be a tad higher kick and a slightly stiffer tip.

 

SPO was a decent shaft but I just never got the right head combination with it. SPB was pretty stout and I actually had too low spin with it. Hit knuckleballs. I could manipulate trajectory pretty easily with them, hit some killer knock down PW's with SPB. 125 is pretty much a lighter SPB with a touch softer midsection for smoother feel IMO.

 

I think SPO/ORA is like a soft-stepped DG while 125 is like a SPB-lite. I know the ORA was used by some DG lovers.

 

I'm trying everything to get more height and spin than current epon 302/SPO setup.

[markheardjr]

Excited to compare 125 to 120 to super peening Orange, thanks again mark for putting those clubs together.

 

125 to me is a slightly smoother ORA and ORA was a bit firmer than SPO. ORA has a bit more DG feel with the snap/thump recoil on the downswing so I'm thinking it could be a tad higher kick and a slightly stiffer tip.

 

SPO was a decent shaft but I just never got the right head combination with it. SPB was pretty stout and I actually had too low spin with it. Hit knuckleballs. I could manipulate trajectory pretty easily with them, hit some killer knock down PW's with SPB. 125 is pretty much a lighter SPB with a touch softer midsection for smoother feel IMO.

 

I think SPO/ORA is like a soft-stepped DG while 125 is like a SPB-lite. I know the ORA was used by some DG lovers.

 

I'm trying everything to get more height and spin than current epon 302/SPO setup.

If you ever find them the 2F15 proto was supposed to be higher launch and spin. I think it was the first set of Nippon Proto's I ever tried and they were still pretty solid feeling but did get higher launch and spin. Kind of like a Tour130 but slightly softer mid section. I have 2 wedge shafts in the closet but no irons shafts.

[jonn443]

The 125S are hands down the best iron shafts I have EVER used...smoooooth, great kick, great ball flight (slightly higher then S300) and tight Word not allowed dispersion.

 

Anyone who thinks DG S300 (Modus 3 125 equivalent) or X100 (130 equivalent) are the be all end all who haven't tried the Modus 3 line.... NEED TO TRY THESE.

[32quattro]

The 125S are hands down the best iron shafts I have EVER used...smoooooth, great kick, great ball flight (slightly higher then S300) and tight Word not allowed dispersion.

 

Anyone who thinks DG S300 (Modus 3 125 equivalent) or X100 (130 equivalent) are the be all end all who haven't tried the Modus 3 line.... NEED TO TRY THESE.

[32quattro]

?I would add " whichever modus you have in mind ,please make sure you test the tour 125 as well "

[braincramp52]

:stop: "Is it just me or" have we not learned everything we need to know about Nippon shafts after almost 3100 posts? :stop:

 

I thought that about 3000 posts ago.:)

[Sir edward of putternut]

It may be answered here somewhere, but what shafts would you compare the nippon modus 3 125 stiff too? I recently picked up the 5-PW and have considered putting them in either s55 or psi.

Can you equate them to another shaft?

 

It may be answered here somewhere, but what shafts would you compare the nippon modus 3 125 stiff too? I recently picked up the 5-PW and have considered putting them in either s55 or psi.

Can you equate them to another shaft?

[markheardjr]

 

It may be answered here somewhere, but what shafts would you compare the nippon modus 3 125 stiff too? I recently picked up the 5-PW and have considered putting them in either s55 or psi.

Can you equate them to another shaft?

 

My tag line for them is DG performance with KBS Tour feel. Really they are like a smoother DG with the kick a little lower in the shaft so it feels like a little more kick and less "snap thump" as someone else described DG. Tour125 would be around an S300 but slightly lighter and slightly softer, like 1/4 flex softer so most see just a touch higher spin and launch while I have found them to be lower launch and similar spin. I also find them to be much easier on my wrists than DG and more consistent in terms of height. DG I hit a low knuckleball once in a while and also can hit high spinning draws. Tour125 feels like a happy Zen space of right amount of flex, kick, weight, launch, spin. So I play them.

 

To KBS Tour I'd say they feel a touch heavier, the kick is higher feeling and they launch lower and spin less. KBS tended to launch high with a lot of spin and were terrible in wind. Tour125, no issues there.

[Hochbeinz]

Anyone know how pings awt 2.0 made by nippon compare to Nippons own models?

[ZP167]

Way late to the Nippon Party but from what I breezed through in this forum I'm interested as I'm looking for a new set of irons. Went from Titleist ZM Blades with DG S300 to 712 MB's with C-taper S+ shafts. I'm looking at the 716 MB's and I'm happy with my C-tapers, love how they do not balloon and I can hit tight draws and I like them much better than the DG S300. I've been reading about the Tour Modus shafts and was wondering what would be a Nippon shaft close to the C-taper S+, that has a little better feel and maybe launch a touch higher in a similar weight? Tour 125S? Also I how to the Tour Modus play relative to flex? I've never played an X shaft, so should I hard step and S? Thanks for any input.

[32quattro]

I have Ap2 710 with 125 S. Tested some C Taper S and to me they fly lower and shorter than 125. As flex wise I can only report on my feelings. I can load both shaft easily but from transition forward nippon 125 kicks more while maintaining a stiff tip. It's like being on rails.

If you are on the S+ ball park maybe S is too soft for you.

[pleadguitar]

I play nippons, best shafts I ever had

[sethdavidsdad]

I have Ap2 710 with 125 S. Tested some C Taper S and to me they fly lower and shorter than 125. As flex wise I can only report on my feelings. I can load both shaft easily but from transition forward nippon 125 kicks more while maintaining a stiff tip. It's like being on rails.

If you are on the S+ ball park maybe S is too soft for you.

I was playing the C Taper s+ before I switched to the nippons. Currently using 120X although the 125X maybe closer to the C Taper S+ IMO.

If you want to try the shafts out I suggest getting on the pay it forward thread http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1291684-nippon-shaft-testing-player-forwarding/