For those that have applied the GG pivot

[Justin.B]

Honest question for the GG crew. I look at GG's instagram all the time. He clearly has some awesome ideas about the swing, about practice and playing, and generally seems like a pretty good dude. With that said, I want to hear some honest thoughts on this:

 

 

Look back at that kid's instagram. He had an awesome swing before, and now is clearly going with the Johnny Ruiz/Matt Wolf/GG prototype model. Those guys are all really good golfers, but I really do wonder if this move is appropriate for EVERYONE. Really - why would you take that kid that had a completely awesome swing and make him swing it essentially more like Jim Furyk? Is shallowing the club 45 degrees really THAT important?

 

Just starting to wonder whether this is getting a little overdone with the steep to shallow move.

As per gg comment, it's an exaggeration.

 

But Ruiz, Wolf, and GG himself all actually do swing like that. And it certainly seems to be a theme in the swings he teaches. I guess what I'm asking is whether there is a "why" other than it looks cool in slow motion. Couldn't you achieve the same results with a less severe looping action?

 

Don't get me wrong - I'd go take a lesson from him if he was anywhere near me. Just interested in understanding why it's so important to make this move that he has everyone do it. I think it's fair to say it's non-traditional. You can certainly find examples of people who swing like that, but I would venture to say the substantial majority of pro players don't do an exaggerated across the line move and yet nearly all of them shallow in transition to some degree.

Completely agree. Seems overdone at times. Why would u want that over a Rory or j day modern swing.

[b.mattay]

Completely agree. Seems overdone at times. Why would u want that over a Rory or j day modern swing.

 

Many of his guys do swing more traditionally (eg. Gretzky and Sun Kang). I would guess that the across the line top-of-backswing position of GG, Ruiz and Wolfe is meant to eliminate the temptation to pull on the handle that would come with being laid off? If it works for them, great! I would rather swing like GG, Ruiz or Wolfe rather than Rory if it makes life easier.

 

Function>>Aesthetics

 

I guess it works for those guys!

[Precis1on]

I'm guessing it's a form of making the pieces match together better. He talks about that a lot on the members site. Also mentions that although he prefers going across the line, there's nothing wrong about staying on plane either. I would guess that he would lean you towards across the line if you have too much left arm rotation in the backswing.

[Golfjack]

Yeah he really looks at your ball flight and swing to suggest any changes. That's why in person lessons would be real nice, while watching online videos can only help so much, and more if you can find one that fits your own issues. I use his exaggerations as a feel, but not something that i try to copy frame to frame.

[MMB1500]

Completely agree. Seems overdone at times. Why would u want that over a Rory or j day modern swing.

 

Many of his guys do swing more traditionally (eg. Gretzky and Sun Kang). I would guess that the across the line top-of-backswing position of GG, Ruiz and Wolfe is meant to eliminate the temptation to pull on the handle that would come with being laid off? If it works for them, great! I would rather swing like GG, Ruiz or Wolfe rather than Rory if it makes life easier.

 

Function>>Aesthetics

 

I guess it works for those guys!

 

The across the line at the top feels way better to me as well, at least in terms of setting up the shallowing move in transition.

[CallawayLefty]

Completely agree. Seems overdone at times. Why would u want that over a Rory or j day modern swing.

 

Many of his guys do swing more traditionally (eg. Gretzky and Sun Kang). I would guess that the across the line top-of-backswing position of GG, Ruiz and Wolfe is meant to eliminate the temptation to pull on the handle that would come with being laid off? If it works for them, great! I would rather swing like GG, Ruiz or Wolfe rather than Rory if it makes life easier.

 

Function>>Aesthetics

 

I guess it works for those guys!

 

The across the line at the top feels way better to me as well, at least in terms of setting up the shallowing move in transition.

 

But would you need to shallow it so dramatically if it wasn't already way across the line? I think we'd all agree Rory has a nice shallowed downswing, right? So if your goal is to hit similar positions on the way down, doesn't it make more sense to move the club less to get there? I'm going to be honest - I think that part of his teachings is a little gimmicky. Just because you CAN hit the ball from that position doesn't mean that you SHOULD. I look at his instagram all the time. It's awesome, a wealth of information, and full of fantastic golf swings and awesome practice info. But I can say from looking at his instagram all the time that he clearly teaches that move to MOST of his students. Some do it more severely than others, but most seem to do it to some level. I still don't know that anyone has really explained it to me why that's preferable - other than vague references to "it gets you more speed."

 

Put another way - why is Leadbetter's A Swing eviscerated on here, but this move is ok? They're basically the same thing - only the Gankas move is even more severe.

 

To be clear - this question probably has more to do with the Golfwrx psyche than anything GG teaches.

[MPStrat]

Completely agree. Seems overdone at times. Why would u want that over a Rory or j day modern swing.

 

Many of his guys do swing more traditionally (eg. Gretzky and Sun Kang). I would guess that the across the line top-of-backswing position of GG, Ruiz and Wolfe is meant to eliminate the temptation to pull on the handle that would come with being laid off? If it works for them, great! I would rather swing like GG, Ruiz or Wolfe rather than Rory if it makes life easier.

 

Function>>Aesthetics

 

I guess it works for those guys!

 

The across the line at the top feels way better to me as well, at least in terms of setting up the shallowing move in transition.

 

But would you need to shallow it so dramatically if it wasn't already way across the line? I think we'd all agree Rory has a nice shallowed downswing, right? So if your goal is to hit similar positions on the way down, doesn't it make more sense to move the club less to get there? I'm going to be honest - I think that part of his teachings is a little gimmicky. Just because you CAN hit the ball from that position doesn't mean that you SHOULD. I look at his instagram all the time. It's awesome, a wealth of information, and full of fantastic golf swings and awesome practice info. But I can say from looking at his instagram all the time that he clearly teaches that move to MOST of his students. Some do it more severely than others, but most seem to do it to some level. I still don't know that anyone has really explained it to me why that's preferable - other than vague references to "it gets you more speed."

 

Put another way - why is Leadbetter's A Swing eviscerated on here, but this move is ok? They're basically the same thing - only the Gankas move is even more severe.

 

GG believes that for some people, going internal with the right arm in the backswing makes it easier for that arm to go external in transition.

 

Shaft angle in the backswing is just one piece of an entire movement. The A Swing and what GG teaches are very different.

[Jstephy555]

I have a lot of experience swinging across the line. My experience has been that it makes it so easy to get way dumped under mid ds. It's so hard to tumble it enough late to correct it and doing that is a compensation anyways. My opinion is there is pretty good speed from that and when I see people do it successfully they shallow very early before the head of the club gets too much momentum.

I love the sexy look of the GG swings. There's a lot of work going into those though. For me he's too complicated I just play for fun.

[bph7]

Completely agree. Seems overdone at times. Why would u want that over a Rory or j day modern swing.

 

Many of his guys do swing more traditionally (eg. Gretzky and Sun Kang). I would guess that the across the line top-of-backswing position of GG, Ruiz and Wolfe is meant to eliminate the temptation to pull on the handle that would come with being laid off? If it works for them, great! I would rather swing like GG, Ruiz or Wolfe rather than Rory if it makes life easier.

 

Function>>Aesthetics

 

I guess it works for those guys!

 

The across the line at the top feels way better to me as well, at least in terms of setting up the shallowing move in transition.

 

But would you need to shallow it so dramatically if it wasn't already way across the line? I think we'd all agree Rory has a nice shallowed downswing, right? So if your goal is to hit similar positions on the way down, doesn't it make more sense to move the club less to get there? I'm going to be honest - I think that part of his teachings is a little gimmicky. Just because you CAN hit the ball from that position doesn't mean that you SHOULD. I look at his instagram all the time. It's awesome, a wealth of information, and full of fantastic golf swings and awesome practice info. But I can say from looking at his instagram all the time that he clearly teaches that move to MOST of his students. Some do it more severely than others, but most seem to do it to some level. I still don't know that anyone has really explained it to me why that's preferable - other than vague references to "it gets you more speed."

 

Put another way - why is Leadbetter's A Swing eviscerated on here, but this move is ok? They're basically the same thing - only the Gankas move is even more severe.

 

To be clear - this question probably has more to do with the Golfwrx psyche than anything GG teaches.

 

The speed thing isn't a vague references. He believes that to be the case, obviously you can agree or disagree. Also, it's easier to shallow in general with the right arm more internal at the top. As for leadbetter, I think the A swing gets eviscerated becuase (1) it's clearly just his latest marketing gimmick (2) it's leadbetter and (3) not a single follower of the swing on here has ever posted before and after showing improvement. The move GG teaches is also not at all similar to what leads seems to be teaching.

[CallawayLefty]

Completely agree. Seems overdone at times. Why would u want that over a Rory or j day modern swing.

 

Many of his guys do swing more traditionally (eg. Gretzky and Sun Kang). I would guess that the across the line top-of-backswing position of GG, Ruiz and Wolfe is meant to eliminate the temptation to pull on the handle that would come with being laid off? If it works for them, great! I would rather swing like GG, Ruiz or Wolfe rather than Rory if it makes life easier.

 

Function>>Aesthetics

 

I guess it works for those guys!

 

The across the line at the top feels way better to me as well, at least in terms of setting up the shallowing move in transition.

 

But would you need to shallow it so dramatically if it wasn't already way across the line? I think we'd all agree Rory has a nice shallowed downswing, right? So if your goal is to hit similar positions on the way down, doesn't it make more sense to move the club less to get there? I'm going to be honest - I think that part of his teachings is a little gimmicky. Just because you CAN hit the ball from that position doesn't mean that you SHOULD. I look at his instagram all the time. It's awesome, a wealth of information, and full of fantastic golf swings and awesome practice info. But I can say from looking at his instagram all the time that he clearly teaches that move to MOST of his students. Some do it more severely than others, but most seem to do it to some level. I still don't know that anyone has really explained it to me why that's preferable - other than vague references to "it gets you more speed."

 

Put another way - why is Leadbetter's A Swing eviscerated on here, but this move is ok? They're basically the same thing - only the Gankas move is even more severe.

 

To be clear - this question probably has more to do with the Golfwrx psyche than anything GG teaches.

 

The speed thing isn't a vague references. He believes that to be the case, obviously you can agree or disagree. Also, it's easier to shallow in general with the right arm more internal at the top. As for leadbetter, I think the A swing gets eviscerated becuase (1) it's clearly just his latest marketing gimmick (2) it's leadbetter and (3) not a single follower of the swing on here has ever posted before and after showing improvement. The move GG teaches is also not at all similar to what leads seems to be teaching.

 

I guess I just don't understand enough to understand the lack of similarities between the two. They appear to have similar premises at least (e.g. that a huge shallowing move is very important to good ballstriking). And as to the speed thing, I don't disagree...in fact, I don't really have an opinion on it one way or the other. I was just saying that's all I've seen referenced as to why you should do it, and it just seems counter-intuitive that you would build such a dramatic move into your swing to pick up a little clubhead speed.

 

In any event, I will step back to the sidelines and just keep watching. Again, I'm confident he understands the swing much better than I do. I'm just doing a little armchair quarterbacking and inquiring as to why this particular move is so desirable. I think it's safe to say it's atypical. Doesn't make it wrong, but certainly makes it worth asking about.

[Kuuuch]

I've seen GG say in his videos his best players like to get crossed up at the top. I do see where CallawayLefty is coming from though, wolfe's backswing is very unorthodox but the guys a lot better than me so can't say much.

 

I have noticed Ruiz's backswing has become less across the line than before, still super steep but shaft is pointing pretty much down the line in a lot of videos I see.

[Hilts1969]

I think sometimes it's easier to do an extreme than a small movement. If you ask someone to say drop their hands a bit they soon get under plane. Personally I also think across the line to shallow has more of a flow to it. That change of direction is easier mentally.

 

I think sometimes it's easier to do an extreme than a small movement. If you ask someone to say drop their hands a bit they soon get under plane. Personally I also think across the line to shallow has more of a flow to it. That change of direction is easier mentally.

[sbark]

Legwork Footwork

caught this comment on a golfwrx instruction article-----A good adage to remember about the feet is that the toes are the brakes, the middle of the foot is for balance and the heels are for speed.

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...the-golf-swing/

 

when watching GG instagrams/Youtubes/Site..............one see's his students of all levels being able to (1 of 3) pivot on heel, roll for to outside edge, but off toe, or simply torque the knee enough to make his pivot

 

summary---I'm trying to stay off of toes with left foot especially when making the backswing, I agree with the Wrx article, toes are for stopping movement of the human body. In basketball a person is taught to stay on the powerballs/middle

 

just observing

[PowerPlayer]

Sorry to thread jack. Does anyone know any instructor in the NY/NJ/CT area that subscribes to this philosophy? Would appreciate any recommendations.

[tinman143]

Question for you guys. GG mentioned to me that @P6, he wants the shoulders square for easier face control. Can someone explain why? I'm assuming being square here will open the shoulders to 20-25* and hips to ~45* at impact. But why will this lead to more face control?

[Krt22]

Because you are using your whole body/pivot to close the face instead of the hands.

[tinman143]

Because you are using your whole body/pivot to close the face instead of the hands.

 

Thanks for the reply. So for folks that aren't used to this, should a n00b expect massive hooks initially?

[Cicero]

Because you are using your whole body/pivot to close the face instead of the hands.

 

Thanks for the reply. So for folks that aren't used to this, should a n00b expect massive hooks initially?

 

If you're doing it correctly, opening/rotating through impact should slow the closing of the face. I would expect a noob to have problems with wipes and pulls before hooks.

[PH17]

Been finding some success in improving my legwork by changing how I feel ground pressure in my feet in the backswing.

 

What's worked for me is actually feeling very little ground pressure in the backswing coupled with deep hip turn. Feels like I'm almost "twizzlering" my legs while turning in a barrel in the backswing. Almost the complete opposite feeling in the transition though. Huge amounts of ground pressure and legs will unfurl, left knee going around and right knee out.

 

Applying ground pressure too early in the backswing resulted in me jumping out of it during transition. Apply it in transition instead (with gg legwork) and it might make the find the GG legwork a lot easier if you're struggling.

video

[MPStrat]

Because you are using your whole body/pivot to close the face instead of the hands.

 

Thanks for the reply. So for folks that aren't used to this, should a n00b expect massive hooks initially?

 

If you're doing it correctly, opening/rotating through impact should slow the closing of the face. I would expect a noob to have problems with wipes and pulls before hooks.

 

Right. Maybe pull hooks if the face is open at p6 and/or if you're used to flip rolling instead of what GG calls holding and turning.

[Dave D]

Because you are using your whole body/pivot to close the face instead of the hands.

 

Thanks for the reply. So for folks that aren't used to this, should a n00b expect massive hooks initially?

when I started getting in a better p6 position, club face nearer spine angle and body more open, I was hitting big flippy hooks because my arms still did their old release from there. I needed to train my arms to change the release. position was much better just my body and arms didn't know what to do from p6 through the ball at first. Still work on that now but it's getting better

[games]

Because you are using your whole body/pivot to close the face instead of the hands.

 

Thanks for the reply. So for folks that aren't used to this, should a n00b expect massive hooks initially?

when I started getting in a better p6 position, club face nearer spine angle and body more open, I was hitting big flippy hooks because my arms still did their old release from there. I needed to train my arms to change the release. position was much better just my body and arms didn't know what to do from p6 through the ball at first. Still work on that now but it's getting better

 

Dave D, would you characterize your current feel post p6 as the GG "no throw" move?

[Dave D]

Because you are using your whole body/pivot to close the face instead of the hands.

 

Thanks for the reply. So for folks that aren't used to this, should a n00b expect massive hooks initially?

when I started getting in a better p6 position, club face nearer spine angle and body more open, I was hitting big flippy hooks because my arms still did their old release from there. I needed to train my arms to change the release. position was much better just my body and arms didn't know what to do from p6 through the ball at first. Still work on that now but it's getting better

 

Dave D, would you characterize your current feel post p6 as the GG "no throw" move?

I did do some punisher drills to help train arms and hold off moves which I would guess GG calls no throws, I call them that for ease of reference too, whether they are the same as what GG prescribes I don't know.

 

For me my feel post p6 is more pivot with arms on the chest and exiting left. More Bradley hughes ball throw drill I'd say. Trying to get the pivot leading the arms right through to p9.

[tinman143]

Because you are using your whole body/pivot to close the face instead of the hands.

 

Thanks for the reply. So for folks that aren't used to this, should a n00b expect massive hooks initially?

when I started getting in a better p6 position, club face nearer spine angle and body more open, I was hitting big flippy hooks because my arms still did their old release from there. I needed to train my arms to change the release. position was much better just my body and arms didn't know what to do from p6 through the ball at first. Still work on that now but it's getting better

 

Dave D, would you characterize your current feel post p6 as the GG "no throw" move?

I did do some punisher drills to help train arms and hold off moves which I would guess GG calls no throws, I call them that for ease of reference too, whether they are the same as what GG prescribes I don't know.

 

For me my feel post p6 is more pivot with arms on the chest and exiting left. More Bradley hughes ball throw drill I'd say. Trying to get the pivot leading the arms right through to p9.

 

GG's no throw and BH's drill is very similar. I took a few online lessons many years ago fwiw.

[Dave D]

Here is the Bradley Hughes throw ball drill for those that haven't seen it:

 

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

a key for me Ive found when working on getting the shoulders and chest more open is that the left arm needs to go along with it exiting left after the impact. Not my usual handsy path out towards the target, if my arms do that my chest stays square for longer. The split grip drill helps feel how the left arm works post impact with the chest opening.

[verderraul]

Here is the Bradley Hughes throw ball drill for those that haven't seen it:

 

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

a key for me Ive found when working on getting the shoulders and chest more open is that the left arm needs to go along with it exiting left after the impact. Not my usual handsy path out towards the target, if my arms do that my chest stays square for longer. The split grip drill helps feel how the left arm works post impact with the chest opening.

 

This looks like the opposite of gg intentions though . That squat move would never let the player throw the ball like bh wants you to .

No ?

[Dave D]

Here is the Bradley Hughes throw ball drill for those that haven't seen it:

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

a key for me Ive found when working on getting the shoulders and chest more open is that the left arm needs to go along with it exiting left after the impact. Not my usual handsy path out towards the target, if my arms do that my chest stays square for longer. The split grip drill helps feel how the left arm works post impact with the chest opening.

 

This looks like the opposite of gg intentions though . That squat move would never let the player throw the ball like bh wants you to .

No ?

I'd have thought it'd be very similar from impact onwards? the chest and body rotating and arms going along for the ride vs very active hands & arms?

 

Although I'll add I'm not saying that it is the same or what GG teaches, I was explaining my feels post impact to "games", and thought I'd post the videos as a reference to my comments.

 

Note: I am not intentionally working on GG moves, however I see a similarity in some of the things I'm working on with my coach and GGs videos, and the direction we are heading seems similar in some ways to the GG model. I really enjoy watching GGs stuff, very interesting and entertaining - always like to learn.

[naj959]

Signed up for the monthly membership today. So far I'm impressed with the amount of material. I'm going to try it out for 30 days and then cancel if I don't make drastic improvements. I've always had a rotate and hold off kind of swing so the lower body stuff is not all that foreign too me. Ball striking has been fairly good as of late and my miss is a push which is fairly playable on the courses I play. My weakness is actually my short game and i'm more interested in improving in that area. Have Monte and DC's videos but still struggle around the greens. I'll try and throw a vid up in a month.

[Dave D]

With the membership is it a monthly membership in that u can cancel after 1 month? or is it a years subscription just in monthly instalments?

 

Would be interested in reading about his mental techniques as I know Qmany says that's helped him loads.

 

Whats his short game stuff like?

[golfoh]

With the membership is it a monthly membership in that u can cancel after 1 month? or is it a years subscription just in monthly instalments?

 

Would be interested in reading about his mental techniques as I know Qmany says that's helped him loads.

 

Whats his short game stuff like?

He doesn't have a ton of mental stuff on the site. Just 10 really short videos with a subject for each. He talks a bit about focus (internal/external) and building a proper pre-shot routine. I do think I need to adopt this.

 

Short game, he prefers bump and run with 6, 8, PW, SW, opting for lower loft when possible. But he shows all kinds of shots, even one similar to Monte's 'flip' to activate the bounce. I definitely learned a lot from the videos (just all the tidbits he throws in are always helpful to me). He shows some drills to work on landing spots, sort of a clock system he uses for backswing length, etc. Also several videos on putting drills, strategies, etc.