Jimmy Walker admits to regularly breaking rule of golf on Twitter

[bladehunter]

If they can do this. I should be able to leave my ball in a players line to stymie them , no?

 

No.

 

Lol. Why ?

 

Because I said so. :)

 

You know I'm no "rulie" and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but I believe if you're asked to mark your ball you are required to mark your ball. ;)

 

Well then if I decide to mark then the other player has to wait right ? That’s what I was saying. Can’t be half one half another.

[nsxguy]

If they can do this. I should be able to leave my ball in a players line to stymie them , no?

 

No.

 

Lol. Why ?

 

Because I said so. :)

 

You know I'm no "rulie" and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but I believe if you're asked to mark your ball you are required to mark your ball. ;)

 

Well then if I decide to mark then the other player has to wait right ? That's what I was saying. Can't be half one half another.

 

It certainly CAN be "half one and NOT half another".

 

I asked Dave the same question about whether the player close to the hall can choose to "hold up" the other player while they go up and mark the ball.

 

When he replies we'll know. :dntknw:

[bladehunter]

I know they are playing for big money and everything but LPGA should've applied the penalty and moved on. Instead of carrying on as if two strokes penalty would constitute some sort of human rights violation.

 

Please show me your evidence that they agreed to leave the ball there to HELP ? After all, that IS the rule.

 

TIA :hi:

 

So it boils down to intent? Just like the anchor rule.

[bladehunter]

Oh yes. It can be done. Just play deaf and keep walking. If she hits you would be hard for her to say that she couldn’t see you walking up.

[new2g0lf]

There's no excuse in my opinion for a professional golfer to not know the rules of the game, ignorance is never a valid defense. The pace of play argument is weak, Ariya has the right to mark her ball and even tap in if she chooses to before Amy takes her shot. It was luck that her ball hit Ariya's ball but as others have posted, leaving the ball there gave Amy two objects (flag and Ariya's ball) to stop the momentum of her shot. The fist pump indicates they were both pleased with the outcome and had no concern for the rest of the field.

 

There's nothing to indicate that they were attempting to play a fast round or worried about pace of play prior to this so they should both receive a penalty.

[davep043]

 

 

Because I said so. :)

 

You know I'm no "rulie" and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but I believe if you're asked to mark your ball you are required to mark your ball. ;)

 

Well then if I decide to mark then the other player has to wait right ? That's what I was saying. Can't be half one half another.

 

It certainly CAN be "half one and NOT half another".

 

I asked Dave the same question about whether the player close to the hall can choose to "hold up" the other player while they go up and mark the ball.

 

When he replies we'll know. :dntknw:

 

Penalty for Breach of Rule 15.3: General Penalty.

This penalty also applies if the player:

• 
  Makes a stroke without waiting for a helping ball or ball-marker to be lifted or moved after becoming aware that another player (1) intended to lift or move it under this Rule or (2) had required someone else to do so, or
  
• 
  Refuses to lift his or her ball or move his or her ball-marker when required to do so and a stroke is then made by the other player whose play might have been helped or interfered with.
  

Two strokes, or loss of hole.

[North Texas]

I know they are playing for big money and everything but LPGA should've applied the penalty and moved on. Instead of carrying on as if two strokes penalty would constitute some sort of human rights violation. If anything because they are playing for big money, on TV, they ought to at least make an appearance of being strict about rules and regulations. Olson is basically using the "that's not who I truly am" defense and avoiding penalty.

 

No, she has talked about the real situation (and so has the rules official who was right there when it happened) that it was nothing more than pace of play. You are mischaracterizing her remarks completely. Not really fair.

 

I found her explanation extremely weak. Especially the part about pace of play.

 

As far as the rules official, the articles say he was approaching the green. Not that he was right there. So we don't know exactly how close he was.

[bladehunter]

 

 

Because I said so. :)

 

You know I'm no "rulie" and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but I believe if you're asked to mark your ball you are required to mark your ball. ;)

 

Well then if I decide to mark then the other player has to wait right ? That's what I was saying. Can't be half one half another.

 

It certainly CAN be "half one and NOT half another".

 

I asked Dave the same question about whether the player close to the hall can choose to "hold up" the other player while they go up and mark the ball.

 

When he replies we'll know. :dntknw:

 

Penalty for Breach of Rule 15.3: General Penalty.

This penalty also applies if the player:

• 
  Makes a stroke without waiting for a helping ball or ball-marker to be lifted or moved after becoming aware that another player (1) intended to lift or move it under this Rule or (2) had required someone else to do so, or
  
• 
  Refuses to lift his or her ball or move his or her ball-marker when required to do so and a stroke is then made by the other player whose play might have been helped or interfered with.
  

Two strokes, or loss of hole.

 

Bingo. That’s why I said it ultimately falls on Ariya. She should have kept walking and tapped in.

[Shilgy]

 

 

Bingo. That’s why I said it ultimately falls on Ariya. She should have kept walking and tapped in.

Likely why she didn't do that. The ball wasn't quite close enough to just walk up and nonchalantly tap in. So she waited for Olson to play. I would bet next time both players would mark.

[bladehunter]

 

 

Bingo. That’s why I said it ultimately falls on Ariya. She should have kept walking and tapped in.

Likely why she didn't do that. The ball wasn't quite close enough to just walk up and nonchalantly tap in. So she waited for Olson to play. I would bet next time both players would mark.

 

I guess. It was around 18 inches or less. . But I could see that . But marking would work too .

 

All part of the point I tried to make earlier about the lpga players being too nice sometimes. She clearly wanted to go tap in. She had her putter going that way. But when told no she wilted and stopped. Why? Not wanting to offend. Not saying every guy would continue on. But plenty would. Especially if they disliked the other guy.

[Hawkeye77]

So much faux outrage and jumping to conclusions from some videotape and dummies going after people on Twitter without the facts - aargh.

 

Why are you outraged that people want to discuss this and that people have a different viewpoint from yours?

 

LOL, is "aargh" outrage? Nope. You are reading too much into that I think.

 

Just an observation about the fact of life of social media and its "necktie parties" when facts are unknown (or ignored).

[3woodvt]

the entitled class complaining about rules that "shouldn't apply" is amusing. Play by the rules or be penalized and show some class and dignity for a game that is much bigger than any one individual. If you don't like it then pick up a shovel or go and drive a truck for a living.

[bladehunter]

the entitled class complaining about rules that "shouldn't apply" is amusing. Play by the rules or be penalized and show some class and dignity for a game that is much bigger than any one individual. If you don't like it then pick up a shovel or go and drive a truck for a living.

 

Huh ?

 

This ^. Goodness. Context is a powerful tool. Truck drivers complain about laws and rules every single day of their lives. I know. I was raised around them. It’s not even close to the ration pro golfers complain. Truck drivers win 25 to 1. Any profession anywhere has the responsibility to question the rules that govern their livelihoods. Period.

[davep043]

the entitled class complaining about rules that "shouldn't apply" is amusing. Play by the rules or be penalized and show some class and dignity for a game that is much bigger than any one individual. If you don't like it then pick up a shovel or go and drive a truck for a living.

 

Huh ?

 

This ^. Goodness. Context is a powerful tool. Truck drivers complain about laws and rules every single day of their lives. I know. I was raised around them. It's not even close to the ration pro golfers complain. Truck drivers win 25 to 1. Any profession anywhere has the responsibility to question the rules that govern their livelihoods. Period.

Every profession should first have the responsibility to KNOW the rules that govern their profession. Sadly, many touring professionals are really lacking in knowledge, but very happy to question and criticize.

[HitEmTrue]

I know they are playing for big money and everything but LPGA should've applied the penalty and moved on. Instead of carrying on as if two strokes penalty would constitute some sort of human rights violation. If anything because they are playing for big money, on TV, they ought to at least make an appearance of being strict about rules and regulations. Olson is basically using the "that's not who I truly am" defense and avoiding penalty.

 

No, she has talked about the real situation (and so has the rules official who was right there when it happened) that it was nothing more than pace of play. You are mischaracterizing her remarks completely. Not really fair.

 

I found her explanation extremely weak. Especially the part about pace of play.

 

As far as the rules official, the articles say he was approaching the green. Not that he was right there. So we don't know exactly how close he was.

 

What is weak about players behind them having already spent 20 minutes or so, just waiting, while playing that hole?

 

[HitEmTrue]

 

Bingo. That’s why I said it ultimately falls on Ariya. She should have kept walking and tapped in.

 

She was 25 yards away.

[Holy Moses]

The rule book says intent is key in order to be penalized for backstopping. How can you judge intent all the time? I don't think you can apart from drawing a line around a green or putting stakes in front of the green and telling players that if you are chipping or pitching or hitting from a bunker inside of this area and there is another ball on the green, that ball must be marked or else both players are penalized.

[Holy Moses]

Bingo. That's why I said it ultimately falls on Ariya. She should have kept walking and tapped in.

 

She was 25 yards away.

 

The potential to backstop happens only a few times a round total, but the players are so tightly grouped together in scoring that every stroke is important. Take the extra 30-45 seconds to mark.

[davep043]

The rule book says intent is key in order to be penalized for backstopping. How can you judge intent all the time? I don't think you can apart from drawing a line around a green or putting stakes in front of the green and telling players that if you are chipping or pitching or hitting from a bunker inside of this area and there is another ball on the green, that ball must be marked or else both players are penalized.

The rule was changed, so that intent to help the player DOES matter. Before, if the ball was in a position to help, and the players agreed to leave it there (no mention of their reason) the penalty applied, and the penalty was DQ if I remember right. I wonder if what happened in Thailand was what they intended when they re-wrote the rule. If not, I hope they'll issue a clarification for the future.

[HitEmTrue]

Bingo. That's why I said it ultimately falls on Ariya. She should have kept walking and tapped in.

 

She was 25 yards away.

 

The potential to backstop happens only a few times a round total, but the players are so tightly grouped together in scoring that every stroke is important. Take the extra 30-45 seconds to mark.

 

I agree, in general, and have said so earlier in this thread.

 

But if they *really* left it there to pick up the pace, there was no breach of the rules. And writing a rule to define hard-and-fast rules on when a ball must be marked would be....dicey.

[3woodvt]

The rule book says intent is key in order to be penalized for backstopping. How can you judge intent all the time? I don't think you can apart from drawing a line around a green or putting stakes in front of the green and telling players that if you are chipping or pitching or hitting from a bunker inside of this area and there is another ball on the green, that ball must be marked or else both players are penalized.

Aime getting ready to defend her self on Golf Channel happening now. I'd have penalized them both if I was in charge. Obvious there was a backstop to help her. The other player knew it too. This is very obvious and interested to hear her excuse and will only diminish her...but I'm eager to hear her 'explanation'...

[Swisstrader98]

Ask Amy Olson?

 

No penalty.

[Holy Moses]

The rule book says intent is key in order to be penalized for backstopping. How can you judge intent all the time? I don't think you can apart from drawing a line around a green or putting stakes in front of the green and telling players that if you are chipping or pitching or hitting from a bunker inside of this area and there is another ball on the green, that ball must be marked or else both players are penalized.

The rule was changed, so that intent to help the player DOES matter. Before, if the ball was in a position to help, and the players agreed to leave it there (no mention of their reason) the penalty applied, and the penalty was DQ if I remember right. I wonder if what happened in Thailand was what they intended when they re-wrote the rule. If not, I hope they'll issue a clarification for the future.

 

But judging intent is too difficult. Look at what Jimmy Walker said - his intent was never communicated because he marked or didn't mark based on if he liked the other player. Just put a stake in front of the green and anyone chipping or pitching in front of the stake must have all balls on the green marked or they get penalized if they hit one.

[Holy Moses]

The rule book says intent is key in order to be penalized for backstopping. How can you judge intent all the time? I don't think you can apart from drawing a line around a green or putting stakes in front of the green and telling players that if you are chipping or pitching or hitting from a bunker inside of this area and there is another ball on the green, that ball must be marked or else both players are penalized.

Aime getting ready to defend her self on Golf Channel happening now. I'd have penalized them both if I was in charge. Obvious there was a backstop to help her. The other player knew it too. This is very obvious and interested to hear her excuse and will only diminish her...but I'm eager to hear her 'explanation'...

 

I believe Amy that she did not know the rule. But it shouldn't matter if the hole was taking forever to play or if you didn't know the rule. The high five with Ariya after the shot was a really bad look.

[Hawkeye77]

The rule book says intent is key in order to be penalized for backstopping. How can you judge intent all the time? I don't think you can apart from drawing a line around a green or putting stakes in front of the green and telling players that if you are chipping or pitching or hitting from a bunker inside of this area and there is another ball on the green, that ball must be marked or else both players are penalized.

Aime getting ready to defend her self on Golf Channel happening now. I'd have penalized them both if I was in charge. Obvious there was a backstop to help her. The other player knew it too. This is very obvious and interested to hear her excuse and will only diminish her...but I'm eager to hear her 'explanation'...

 

No, those remarks were made much earlier today and aired and discussed ad nauseam.

 

Rolfing is just wrong. If there was no rules breach, it was not inappropriate. Stupid Mark - of course, she'd have had it marked if it was in her line.

 

Lay off Brandel - this was one moment, spur of the moment and yes, unlike the PGA Tour, pace of play is an issue on the LPGA - they actually enforce it from time to time.

 

Still way too much ado about nothing. Just projecting their issues with known problems on the PGA Tour to two individuals who don't deserve the nonsense.

 

The rule book says intent is key in order to be penalized for backstopping. How can you judge intent all the time? I don't think you can apart from drawing a line around a green or putting stakes in front of the green and telling players that if you are chipping or pitching or hitting from a bunker inside of this area and there is another ball on the green, that ball must be marked or else both players are penalized.

Aime getting ready to defend her self on Golf Channel happening now. I'd have penalized them both if I was in charge. Obvious there was a backstop to help her. The other player knew it too. This is very obvious and interested to hear her excuse and will only diminish her...but I'm eager to hear her 'explanation'...

 

I believe Amy that she did not know the rule. But it shouldn't matter if the hole was taking forever to play or if you didn't know the rule. The high five with Ariya after the shot was a really bad look.

 

Only if taken out of context.

[Holy Moses]

Bingo. That's why I said it ultimately falls on Ariya. She should have kept walking and tapped in.

 

She was 25 yards away.

 

The potential to backstop happens only a few times a round total, but the players are so tightly grouped together in scoring that every stroke is important. Take the extra 30-45 seconds to mark.

 

I agree, in general, and have said so earlier in this thread.

 

But if they *really* left it there to pick up the pace, there was no breach of the rules. And writing a rule to define hard-and-fast rules on when a ball must be marked would be....dicey.

 

I don't think it's dicey. Judging intent is way more dicey.

[Holy Moses]

 

Only if taken out of context.

 

The context is that she didn't know the rule. A high five because you didn't know the rule is not justified because we all know the high five was given for probably saving a shot.

[bladehunter]

the entitled class complaining about rules that "shouldn't apply" is amusing. Play by the rules or be penalized and show some class and dignity for a game that is much bigger than any one individual. If you don't like it then pick up a shovel or go and drive a truck for a living.

 

Huh ?

 

This ^. Goodness. Context is a powerful tool. Truck drivers complain about laws and rules every single day of their lives. I know. I was raised around them. It's not even close to the ration pro golfers complain. Truck drivers win 25 to 1. Any profession anywhere has the responsibility to question the rules that govern their livelihoods. Period.

Every profession should first have the responsibility to KNOW the rules that govern their profession. Sadly, many touring professionals are really lacking in knowledge, but very happy to question and criticize.

 

It’s an impossible task. Not one person here knows them all by heart. Each poster cut and pastes links to them. They are very knowledgeable but you’re asking a tour pro to do something a full time rules official can’t ?

 

 

Bingo. That’s why I said it ultimately falls on Ariya. She should have kept walking and tapped in.

 

She was 25 yards away.

 

With clear line of sight. She could see ariya walking to the ball.

[FairwaysToHeaven]

my issue with the rule is that there any circumstance at all where backstopping was an issue where the players couldn't simply just say they didn't mark the ball because of pace of play. if people think marking the ball slows pace, then that excuse could be used in every situation, no matter how fast or slow the group is playing.

[smeech8000]

Bingo. That's why I said it ultimately falls on Ariya. She should have kept walking and tapped in.

 

She was 25 yards away.

 

Irrelevant. Tell me that if these two are playing a Solheim match (or some other head-to-head scenario) Ariya won't enforce her right to mark even if she has to walk twice that distance to do so?

 

Phil (and other players) has requested FC's and opponents to mark before hitting full wedge shots. Opposite side of the scenario, but same issue.

 

The "concern" these players have for one another's PSR and/or pace of play are just convenient reasons that fit the narrative. The omerta surrounding this practice is perpetuated because none of the players have the stones to potentially rub someone the wrong way by saying "Wait, I'm gonna go ahead and mark." Another symptom of the "buddy-buddy" mentality rampant on the tours today, facilitated by how much money is involved... you didn't see old-school guys doing this stuff because they were playing for their dinner or just had zero F's to give about being liked (see: Faldo, N.)

 

Trying to write a rule that removes intent or delineate a threshold for required marking is a fool's errand. It is incumbent on the player to protect the field, and until some specific situation occurs where fallout or collateral damage is identifiable (e.g. someone in one of the final groups losing by a shot or missing a playoff, etc. due to the other group allowing this to happen and one of the players benefitting) nothing will (or can, IMO) be done about it. Even if that does happen, the player citing misconduct will likely be viewed as a sour grapes crybaby by the rest of the players, if not the majority of the media trying to push the story.