Jimmy Walker admits to regularly breaking rule of golf on Twitter

[Fade]

I don't see any visual evidence of the forbidden agreement in the video within the linked tweet.

[bladehunter]

Yep Dave. I see it that way too. Ariya has to put her foot down . Lpga is a little too friendly for competition purposes a lot of the time.

You do realize this thread started with the same behavior on the PGA Tour? It is not just the women.

 

lol yes. But this coupled with the caddie line up issue and you’ve got the appearance of rule benders in a very calculated fashion.

 

But my comment you highlighted has to do with the lpga players seeming to not want to step on anyone’s toes. I don’t recall seeing anyone else leave a ball that close to help a player. Especially after the player went to mark it. For some reason she was called off that idea and she just stopped and let it happen. Don’t see that anywhere else. Like I said. Too friendly.

 

But yes. I agree it’s not just the ladies in General. They just happen to have shown he most obvious example.

[Steele47]

Hell they fist pumped too I think. Whole world has gone mad!

[nsxguy]

I don't see any visual evidence of the forbidden agreement in the video within the linked tweet.

 

Totally agree.

 

I see zero evidence they "agreed" to leave the ball there to help. So, given the Rule, no penalty.

 

The way I see it was Ariya pointed briefly to herself as in "I'll mark ?" and (unseen by us in the video), Amy is "No, I'm ready to go". Less than 5 seconds to pan to Amy and we see her taking a practice swing, getting back behind the ball briefly, and stepping up and hitting it.

 

The fist bump was a bad optic but I think it was just a "laughable moment".

[nsxguy]

This LPGA, backstop thing is such a non issue.. If she was accurate enough to purposely hit that ball, she could have sunk the chip.. She got lucky.. Luck isn't cheating.

 

What...? By calling Ariya off from marking her ball she gained an advantage of having an additional object which her ball could hit. In this case the ball was in an extremely advantageous position about 3-feet away from her target. This is about protecting the entire field which does not have this same advantage.

 

She deliberately called off her competitor and gained an advantage, the rule may not be clear enough but this is certainly against the intent of the rules of golf as they currently stand.

It could have quite possibly been a pace of play issue.. Maybe she was ready to hit her shot and didn't want to wait. Who knows.. but it's something entirely else to say that another golfer(s) has actually cheated to gain an advantage over the competition and their playing partners. I wouldn't go so far as to imply that without proof.

She got lucky.. but that's my opinion... Unless of course you have actual proof that they conspired to cheat.

 

Ariya was walking to mark her ball, approximately 10-15 feet away from it, looked to Amy and was told not to mark. Marking would have taken about 10 seconds. From a pace of play standpoint Amy's turn would not have started until Ariya was out of the way so spare any discussion of worrying about a bad time (if they were on the clock to begin with). If Ariya had insisted on marking, Amy would not have been allowed to stop her but it was posed as a question and she was told to leave it. After the shot the two fist-bumped.

 

I'm not one to harp on players being friendly (I actually quite enjoy the camaraderie) but this actively effecting other competitors. As I mentioned previously, it was reasonable and prudent for that ball to be marked.

I have to agree with SkiSchoolPro, sometimes its tough to anticipate that a ball is really in position to help, but in this case the ball was CLEARLY in such a position. Ariya clearly should have insisted on marking her ball, and has the right under the rules to do just that. If she is not given the chance to lift her ball after she states her intention, the other player is penalized. If Ariya is doing what is RIGHT, if she avoids giving her playing partner potential advantage, she insists on marking and lifting.

 

Could you please point out where that is in the Rules ?

 

TIA

[Hawkeye77]

Good interview by Amy. Context does matter. Much ado about nothing. Geoff Shackelford should zip it.

[lowheel]

I don't see any visual evidence of the forbidden agreement in the video within the linked tweet.

 

Totally agree.

 

I see zero evidence they "agreed" to leave the ball there to help. So, given the Rule, no penalty.

 

The way I see it was Ariya pointed briefly to herself as in "I'll mark ?" and (unseen by us in the video), Amy is "No, I'm ready to go". Less than 5 seconds to pan to Amy and we see her taking a practice swing, getting back behind the ball briefly, and stepping up and hitting it.

 

The fist bump was a bad optic but I think it was just a "laughable moment".

 

youre right, thats the problem, its the optics.I think she was genuinely happy but it looks bad if thats what youre looking for.

[HitEmTrue]

I have to agree with SkiSchoolPro, sometimes its tough to anticipate that a ball is really in position to help, but in this case the ball was CLEARLY in such a position. Ariya clearly should have insisted on marking her ball, and has the right under the rules to do just that. If she is not given the chance to lift her ball after she states her intention, the other player is penalized. If Ariya is doing what is RIGHT, if she avoids giving her playing partner potential advantage, she insists on marking and lifting.

 

Could you please point out where that is in the Rules ?

 

TIA

 

Wow, attempting to do a text search on the USGA website is a beating. The results show broken links to the old rules.

 

 

 

Penalty for Breach of Rule 15.3: General Penalty.

 

This penalty also applies if the player:

 

Makes a stroke without waiting for a helping ball or ball-marker to be lifted or moved after becoming aware that another player (1) intended to lift or move it under this Rule or (2) had required someone else to do so, or

 

Refuses to lift his or her ball or move his or her ball-marker when required to do so and a stroke is then made by the other player whose play might have been helped or interfered with.

 

< edit >

More info...a breaching this rule is playing with fire.

 

Interpretation 15.3a/1 says, "If the players know that they are not allowed to make such an agreement, but still do it, they are both disqualified under Rule 1.3b(1) for deliberately ignoring Rule 15.3a."

[SkiSchoolPro]

Given the subjectivity problem, why not just do away with the rule altogether? Most people aren't able to take advantage of a back-stop very often and the top players don't see it as a problem, so why not just level the field by leaving it up to the player hitting the ball from off the green whether to have a ball on the green marked? Wouldn't that simplify things while leveling the playing field for everyone (with the exception of when competitors play in different sized groups).

I guess it gets down to creating a level playing field. If I play with a buddy, and he always leaves his ball there, maybe I save a stroke. If you're playing with a stranger, and he marks everything, you have no chance of getting that lucky bounce. Maybe I win, you finish second, and the difference is that one stroke. Not fair to you.

The rule is fine, its the Tour players who don't understand its purpose. I wonder how Ariya would feel if this stroke saved by Amy means that her big sister misses the cut. I wonder how the players who will take home less money feel about it? Amy saved a stroke because Ariya helped her. Its not a team game, a player shouldn't be helping another player.

To be clear, what I propose for competition is that the stranger/fellow competitor/opponent does not have the option to mark- they must leave it there until you reach the green unless you ask the ball to be marked (similar to how it works off the green). That way, everyone gets the possibility of the lucky break once every blue moon. IMO, this is how most people play most of the time and would mean 1 less rule for everyone to worry about.

[OldTomMorris]

The worst argument defending backstopping is the if they are accurate enough to hit the ball why not hole it. That completely misses the point, it’s about lack of accuracy as the ball being left there as a backstop effectively makes the target bigger.

Everything possible should be done to prevent this happening. The player gained an unfair advantage that was completely avoidable.

[davep043]

Olson said she’s definitely aware of it now.

“Obviously, with everything that has gone down, I think we all, especially me, will be more conscious of it, and I will have everyone mark anything remotely close to the hole now,” Olson said.

I find it hard to believe that they were both unaware of the concept of protecting the field. At least Amy says she won't accept possible backstopping in the future. That's a step that Jimmy Walker didn't take when he was interviewed last year. Time will tell.

[HitEmTrue]

Good interview by Amy. Context does matter. Much ado about nothing. Geoff Shackelford should zip it.

 

Was all that stuff originally in the golf digest article?

 

Yes, reading that interview does help. They already had been delayed playing the hole, and it sounds like they really were trying to quickly complete play. And if they really will mark in the future because of the attention this brought, then kudos to them. The guys won’t do it.

 

 

[BNGL]

This is why I always mark my ball as soon as it gets in the green, the other day I hit 4 iron from 221 to 15 feet. Told my playing partner to wait as I walked to the green to mark my ball.

[Forged4ever]

In summary, he admits to not marking a ball when it may assist players he likes. He also says he often asks the other player whether he would like him to leave his ball. Currently the rules clearly state that the penalty is disqualification for this if the other player agrees.

 

I'm sure this is rampant on tour, but to admit to it in writing is not the smartest thing Jimmy will ever do.

 

Yeppers, Jimmy ain’t the brightest bulb in the pack as his even asking the other Player is the move of an Amateur and dumb arse as this particular “move” is normally accompanied by a look, a nod and/or a wink, with no words being spoken.

 

Putz??

 

Have a great weekend My Friends?

RP

[bladehunter]

If they can do this. I should be able to leave my ball in a players line to stymie them , no?

[nsxguy]

If they can do this. I should be able to leave my ball in a players line to stymie them , no?

 

No.

[davep043]

Good interview by Amy. Context does matter. Much ado about nothing. Geoff Shackelford should zip it.

Shackleford should continue to point it out when it happens. I'm taking Amy at her word, she says she was unaware of the issue previously, but will make sure it doesn't happen (at least in her group) in the future. Players are often poorly informed about the rules, but there are now at least two players who are much more aware of this particular rule.

[North Texas]

Okay, I read Geoff Shackleford's article and don't see anything wrong with it. He made some valid points.

 

And I have read what Amy Olson said and thought it was really weak.

[bladehunter]

If they can do this. I should be able to leave my ball in a players line to stymie them , no?

 

No.

 

Lol. Why ?

[davep043]

Okay, I read Geoff Shackleford's article and don't see anything wrong with it. He made some valid points.

 

And I have read what Amy Olson said and thought it was really weak.

I always find it weak when professional golfers show their ignorance of the rules that govern their career, but its way too common. At very minimum, Amy And Ariya both should have learned about this particular rule, and have no excuses going forward. Even better, Amy says she'll make sure balls are marked appropriately going forward.

[nsxguy]

If they can do this. I should be able to leave my ball in a players line to stymie them , no?

 

No.

 

Lol. Why ?

 

Because I said so. :)

 

You know I'm no "rulie" and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but I believe if you're asked to mark your ball you are required to mark your ball. ;)

[ode1]

Does it happen as much in match play?

[nsxguy]

Okay, I read Geoff Shackleford's article and don't see anything wrong with it. He made some valid points.

 

And I have read what Amy Olson said and thought it was really weak.

I always find it weak when professional golfers show their ignorance of the rules that govern their career, but its way too common. At very minimum, Amy And Ariya both should have learned about this particular rule, and have no excuses going forward. Even better, Amy says she'll make sure balls are marked appropriately going forward.

 

I would agree with you except in ALL major sports I believe you'd be surprised how many of the players don't know some of the more basic rules of their sport.

 

Now one could say it doesn't matter (as much) and I'd agree since there are officials directly officiating their sports and if they screw up a rule it costs them.

 

But in golf I suggest it's basically impossible very difficult to know ALL the rules. The rulies here don't know ALL the rules. And at the pro level there's always an official not too far away if they're not sure - and they're "never" sure since they're playing for so much cash and don't want to be penalized for what so many people say "Whaaaaaat ? You're kidding !!!". Just like on WRX.

 

While I find it a bit hard to believe that neither(?) player knew about "backstopping", I can believe it. The ball left near the hole isn't hit very often so why bother learning the rule. It simply doesn't happen very often. We often learn rules by tripping over them. Oh well.

 

I saw the video of Oosty's HIO that hit the ball already on the green. Guess the previous player should've ran up to the green - you know, to protect the field,,,,,,,,,,,, :dntknw: :)

 

I've seen a ball hit in this manner maybe 6 or 7 times,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, in 35 YEARS. Not a big deal to me.

[KevCarter]

Does it happen as much in match play?

 

If referring to the OP, it's not an issue in Match Play.

 

In stroke play only:

• A player who is required to lift a ball may play first instead, and
  
• If two or more players agree to leave a ball in place to help any player, and that player then makes a stroke with the helping ball left in place, each player who made the agreement gets the general penalty (two penalty strokes).
  

[legitimategolf]

I know they are playing for big money and everything but LPGA should've applied the penalty and moved on. Instead of carrying on as if two strokes penalty would constitute some sort of human rights violation. If anything because they are playing for big money, on TV, they ought to at least make an appearance of being strict about rules and regulations. Olson is basically using the "that's not who I truly am" defense and avoiding penalty.

[Hawkeye77]

I know they are playing for big money and everything but LPGA should've applied the penalty and moved on. Instead of carrying on as if two strokes penalty would constitute some sort of human rights violation. If anything because they are playing for big money, on TV, they ought to at least make an appearance of being strict about rules and regulations. Olson is basically using the "that's not who I truly am" defense and avoiding penalty.

 

No, she has talked about the real situation (and so has the rules official who was right there when it happened) that it was nothing more than pace of play. You are mischaracterizing her remarks completely. Not really fair.

[davep043]

Does it happen as much in match play?

 

If referring to the OP, it's not an issue in Match Play.

 

In stroke play only:

• A player who is required to lift a ball may play first instead, and
  
• If two or more players agree to leave a ball in place to help any player, and that player then makes a stroke with the helping ball left in place, each player who made the agreement gets the general penalty (two penalty strokes).
  

In match play, the rules are different. If I tell you I want to mark my ball, you are required to wait. If you don't, you lose the hole. In fourball match, if I want your partner to mark before you play, same thing, he is required to mark it before you play. If you play before he marks it, your side loses the hole. All of this is in 15-3.a, for a ball on the putting green. There is no field to protect, I only have to protect my own interests.

[Hawkeye77]

So much faux outrage and jumping to conclusions from some videotape and dummies going after people on Twitter without the facts - aargh.

[nsxguy]

I know they are playing for big money and everything but LPGA should've applied the penalty and moved on. Instead of carrying on as if two strokes penalty would constitute some sort of human rights violation.

 

Please show me your evidence that they agreed to leave the ball there to HELP ? After all, that IS the rule.

 

TIA :hi:

[North Texas]

So much faux outrage and jumping to conclusions from some videotape and dummies going after people on Twitter without the facts - aargh.

 

Why are you outraged that people want to discuss this and that people have a different viewpoint from yours?