The Lost Art of Waving a Group Up on Par 3's

[Long Shot]

I was out on the course and it dawned on me that I haven't seen a group waved up on a par three or have been waved up in several years. I was wondering it the practice is still used anywhere consistently. What I have noticed is that where I play the pace of play has sped up, so there is typically less waiting on par three tees. But even on days when it is slow out there no one in my area waves groups up.

 

Thoughts?? 

[bigred90gt]

I've played for just over 20 years, and I've never experienced or seen anyone waive anyone up on a par 3 unless they were letting them play through. I've seen people do it on short par 4s so people could try to drive the green, but never on a par 3. All that would do would be to shorten the gap even further and clog things up more unless you were doing it to let them through. 

 

To be honest, if someone waived me up on a par 3, then putted out after I hit, I'd be pretty pissed off thinking they were supposed to be letting me play through. 

 

If it's a lost art, I'm going to say its a long lost art. 

Edited May 8 by bigred90gt

[IndyArcher]

Par 3's are typically pretty quick playing holes anyway. What is accomplished by waving a group up on a par 3 if not for the purpose of letting them play through? Seems to me all that it would do is delay the group already there from moving on to the next hole? I would agree with @bigred90gt that I've never had anyone wave me up unless it was to allow me to play through or to invite me to join a small group/individual if I'm alone and the course is moving slowly. 

[Wooley12]

For most golfers, a par 3 is a 4 shot hole. The time it takes to walk to the green from the tee is the amount of time saved by waving a group forward. 4-5 minutes? Waving forward was SOP around Rochester NY. Here in the. PNW,  the suggestion to waving a group up  is met by puzzled looks and refusal. 

Edited May 8 by Wooley12

[Ty_Webb]

So my understanding of why it might work is:

 

- if you're playing a course that has 8 minute gaps in tee times and your longest par three takes an average group 10 minutes to play, then you're going to have a problem. Every group is going to come onto the tee 8 minutes after the previous one (on average), but the group ahead is taking 10 minutes. So the 2nd group of the day will wait 2 minutes, then the 3rd group 4 minutes etc. etc. etc.

- if you wave people up, then some of that 10 minutes to play the hole is completed when the group ahead clears the green, so you reduce the time to play the hole on average across the day's play

 

That said, in practice, whenever this has actually been done (and I don't remember it being done in the past 20-25 years or so), what happens is group 1 hits their shots, goes up and plays them all onto the green, then stands to the side while the group on the tee hit their shots. Those shots, someone will hit one on the green and it will be in the way, so after they are all done playing and the first group finishes out the hole, they waste time marking that ball, maybe moving the marker etc. and it winds up taking longer than it should.

 

The other issue is if the group hitting their tee shots all hit their shots well, then they're on the next tee before the 1st group has finished teeing off. So they hate that they played up, even though it means that group 3 is now not having to wait at all.

[third-times-a-charm]

I've only been playing for about 8 years or so, now. I recall it happening to me a few times and always being confused about wtf was going on. Now that I'm thinking of it I'm pretty sure I hit, and then the person kept putting after when I thought they were telling me to play through and me thinking what was going on.

 

I would say yes it's definitely a lost art and doesnt save any time especially on a public course where most people can't hit a Par 3 green in 1 shot not to mention with someone watching them. It's probably worse, tbh.

[jwhite86]

There is some waiving up during our league play, but, honestly, I think it hurts pace of play more than helping.  

[klebs01]

1 hour ago, third-times-a-charm said:

I've only been playing for about 8 years or so, now. I recall it happening to me a few times and always being confused about wtf was going on. Now that I'm thinking of it I'm pretty sure I hit, and then the person kept putting after when I thought they were telling me to play through and me thinking what was going on.

 

I would say yes it's definitely a lost art and doesnt save any time especially on a public course where most people can't hit a Par 3 green in 1 shot not to mention with someone watching them. It's probably worse, tbh.

I think some of it has to do with the prevalence of walking vs carts. Definitely more common when there are more walkers. 
 

on you point about putting after you hit while playing through that is the correct way to do it. It should be almost like parallel play. Fully stopping while letting a group through is just wasting more time. 

[Socrates]

Waving up on Par 3's never helped or solved anything.  They only thing it did was to congest players at the next tee.  You also bring into play, the chance of someone getting hit by a golf ball.  It is not done on any course that I know of in the last 30-40 years.

 

What is lost is the art of playing with a good pace and not being slow as F.

[Schulzmc]

The R&A pace of play manual suggests this should only be considered on holes where a “high percentage of players will not actually succeed in getting their ball on to the green” with their tee shot. 

 

Years ago our golf committee decided to discourage this practice due to the fact that we did not think it was actually saving time and due to the risk of someone being hit with a tee shot. No one every waves up a group now unless they are intending them to play through.

Edited May 8 by Schulzmc

[GoGoErky]

7 hours ago, Wooley12 said:

For most golfers, a par 3 is a 4 shot hole. The time it takes to walk to the green from the tee is the amount of time saved by waving a group forward. 4-5 minutes? Waving forward was SOP around Rochester NY. Here in the. PNW,  the suggestion to waving a group up  is met by puzzled looks and refusal. 

I’ve played multiple rounds over the years in Rochester area (have friends that still live there) and never once was waved up nor did we wave anyone up 

[MikeW2]

It is still pretty common at one of the courses I play. Front 9 has a 240 yard downhill par 3 that is not often hit in regulation and the back nine has a 225 yard all carry over a small valley like land area which almost never hit in regulation. To @Schulzmc ‘s point neither of these two holes have a high percentage of being hit in regulation and to @Ty_Webb ‘s point the tee times there are spaced 8 minutes apart. So on both holes waving up does actually save some time but this is the only course that I see it on.

[bobfoster]

5 hours ago, Schulzmc said:

The R&A pace of play manual suggests this should only be considered on holes where a “high percentage of players will not actually succeed in getting their ball on to the green” with their tee shot. 

 

Years ago our golf committee decided to discourage this practice due to the fact that we did not think it was actually saving time and due to the risk of someone being hit with a tee shot. No one every waves up a group now unless they are intending them to play through.

I've been waved up many times over all the years I've played, and have also been parts of groups that have waved people up. In every instance I can remember it was always to allow some person or group to play through. In fact, I really can't imagine why you would do it for any other reason.

 

When I first read the OP's post, I simply assumed that was what he was talking about. And I agree with him - I used to see it commonly, but haven't so much the last few years. I attribute that to a simple reason - that has been discussed lately in several other threads - there's simply more people playing golf since Covid. Tee sheets and courses are fuller. 

 

In the past, I might go out alone as a single on a weekday, with a course only half full, and foursomes would commonly wave me up. Both out of courtesy, and because they could keep their leisurely pace without feeling the (subtle) pressure of a fast golfer behind them. Likewise if I was in a foursome enjoying the day, and a twosome came up behind me (and there were two holes open ahead of me), I'd gladly wave them through. Happy to do so in fact. Was understood to be part of basic etiquette. 

 

But these days? I played this afternoon at a local public course. A Wednesday in early May (i.e., not talking about a mid summer weekend when you'd expect courses to be jammed), and the course was completely full - totally booked tee sheet w/ 8 minute tee times until about 3:45 (the latest it would be possible to tee off and still get 18 in). This is now common. Wasn't too bad, a 4:20 round, but we were waiting five minutes or so on every tee box. Would make absolutely zero sense to wave anyone through. Nor would I want to be waved through. Nothing would be gained ... you'd just change the order of who was waiting on the next tee. PoP wouldn't be sped up for anyone. 

 

[I liken it to a highway. If traffic is fairly sparse and you're driving 55, pulling into the right lane to let someone driving 70 pass on the left is just courtesy. But if you're in a traffic jam and everyone for a miles ahead is creeping along at 40, passing is just silly. There's no benefit to either any individual or to traffic flow in general.]

 

So I'm a bit puzzled by some of the posts here. If a course is full what would conceivably be the purpose of waving someone up on a par 3? Either you'd let them play through (in which case you'd just wait longer on the next tee box), or they'd get to play the hole slightly quicker (they wouldn't have to wait until you finished to start walking to the green), but then would have longer to wait behind you on the next tee box. In either case neither group is any better off in the long run, and PoP for the course as a whole is not better off. 

 

If you're driving south out of NYC during rush hour on I-95, with six lanes of traffic going 35, whether you let the car immediately behind you get immediately ahead of you is just silliness. You're both still going to be going 35 for the foreseeable future. You have no alternative but to open the sunroof, crank some tunes, and relax.

Edited May 9 by bobfoster

[Nard_S]

Glad it's lost.

 

[Wooley12]

4 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

I’ve played multiple rounds over the years in Rochester area (have friends that still live there) and never once was waved up nor did we wave anyone up 

Interesting. I probably played a couple hundred rounds in Monroe County over 60 years and my recollection is different. It was SOP in all 9 hole after work the leagues I was in. If I could speak with the group following mine on the tee of a par 3 I'd sell them on the plan. Once, when I was a member,  I counted 4 mens club foursomes waiting on 12th tee at Durand Eastman. The back pin placement and green slope speed had everyone 3-6 putting. Every group hit up, as it was the league norm then. 

[ShortGolfer]

I'm as "thin as a rail" and enjoy playing quickly in hot weather as a single. 

I'd say my pace is 1 hour for nine holes if nobody is in front of me.

I've been waved through a couple times when I reach the 4th and 5th holes, which are Par 3s.

They will take the opportunity to sit down and rest for a bit as I walk the course.

 

I've also joined another single or pair after assessing the course situation.

 

Edited May 9 by ShortGolfer

[Greenie]

I haven't seen waving a group up on a par 3 used in the last 20 years. When I first began playing back in the 80's it was common practice. Some courses had signs posted to wave the group up on the par 3's.

 

I thought it was used back in the day because there were more walkers. It made sense. Have the group hit up and while they were walking to their balls your group would putt out and by the time you were done on the green the other group would be in position to play the hole. I think along the way with more cart riders it didn't make as much sense. The group on the green would wait for the other group to hit up and before your group was finished on the green the other group would already be at the green waiting.

 

 

[sui generis]

19 hours ago, Long Shot said:

I was out on the course and it dawned on me that I haven't seen a group waved up on a par three or have been waved up in several years. I was wondering it the practice is still used anywhere consistently. What I have noticed is that where I play the pace of play has sped up, so there is typically less waiting on par three tees. But even on days when it is slow out there no one in my area waves groups up.

 

Thoughts?? 

 

The practice was marginally useful decades ago when most players walked. 😉

[Shankyouverymuch]

21 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

So my understanding of why it might work is:

 

- if you're playing a course that has 8 minute gaps in tee times and your longest par three takes an average group 10 minutes to play, then you're going to have a problem. Every group is going to come onto the tee 8 minutes after the previous one (on average), but the group ahead is taking 10 minutes. So the 2nd group of the day will wait 2 minutes, then the 3rd group 4 minutes etc. etc. etc.

- if you wave people up, then some of that 10 minutes to play the hole is completed when the group ahead clears the green, so you reduce the time to play the hole on average across the day's play

 

The back nine of my league course starts with a par 3.  Last year we were often 20-30 minutes behind due to the league in front of us. If there is a wait we are often asked by the ranger to waive the next group up to help speed things up.

[Schulzmc]

12 hours ago, bobfoster said:

So I'm a bit puzzled by some of the posts here. If a course is full what would conceivably be the purpose of waving someone up on a par 3?

Here is the theory, even though as we have mentioned it often does not work out in practice:

 

Group A is all on the green on a par three. If they putt out immediately they will have to wait to hit their tee shots on the next tee. Instead of waiting there, they step to the side and wait while Group B hits their tee shots on the par 3 ("waving them up"). Since most of the guys in Group B miss the green, Group A can putt out, head to the next tee, and tee off during the time it takes Group B to walk up, chip on the green, and putt out. 

 

Group A still had to wait, but waited by the green instead of on the next tee.

Group B had a reduced wait time on the par 3 tee. 

 

Again, that's the theory.

 

[sui generis]

The "wave up" gets used by referees on occasion. Par 5s which can be reached in two (often in their dreams) are likely candidates. It works well to keep things moving.

[Mr. Bean]

22 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

So my understanding of why it might work is:

 

- if you're playing a course that has 8 minute gaps in tee times and your longest par three takes an average group 10 minutes to play, then you're going to have a problem.

 

This is exactly why starting intervals should be determined by the par3 that takes longest to play. It makes no sense to have 8 minute intervals of there are par3's that take 10-12 minutes to play.

[Mr. Bean]

52 minutes ago, Schulzmc said:

Here is the theory, even though as we have mentioned it often does not work out in practice:

 

Group A is all on the green on a par three. If they putt out immediately they will have to wait to hit their tee shots on the next tee. Instead of waiting there, they step to the side and wait while Group B hits their tee shots on the par 3 ("waving them up"). Since most of the guys in Group B miss the green, Group A can putt out, head to the next tee, and tee off during the time it takes Group B to walk up, chip on the green, and putt out. 

 

Group A still had to wait, but waited by the green instead of on the next tee.

Group B had a reduced wait time on the par 3 tee. 

 

Again, that's the theory.

 

 

That is how one should think about it, well described. The next hole is of utmost importance whether the preceding hole is a par3 or a drivable par4. If the next hole is another hole prone to create delays it makes no sense to call on the hole before. So it is up to the course whether calling on makes sense or not. Usually it makes no sense, the delay will only be created on the next hole or one after.

 

One interesting hole in this sense is Thracian Cliffs #6, a par3 with altitude difference several tens of meters. Even with a cart it takes 3-4 minutes to drive from the teeing area to the green and if there is another group already close by it makes sense to have them tee off as soon as the carts arrive at the green. Only 5% of the balls hit will be on the green anyway so it will take considerable time for the players to a) find their balls and b) to get to them.

 

It is a tremendous hole and for a 1st timer very very difficult. This picture does not tell the altitude but it gives a slight idea how the green is surrounded by problems. A hole to remember!

[North Butte]

Are you describing asking the group behind to hit to the Par 3 while you wait but then NOT letting them play through? 

 

If that were ever a "thing" then no wonder it died out. Silly waste of time. Just get on with it. 

 

. 

[Pepperturbo]

Waving up is NOT used around Southern California, least in my golf travels.  Even at a few courses that like to pride themselves in POP management, it's not promoted. 

The problem has more to do with getting people to wave-up.  Like their golf, there's a glaring lack of etiquette, or manners.  

Edited May 9 by Pepperturbo

[Socrates]

4 hours ago, Schulzmc said:

Here is the theory, even though as we have mentioned it often does not work out in practice:

 

Group A is all on the green on a par three. If they putt out immediately they will have to wait to hit their tee shots on the next tee. Instead of waiting there, they step to the side and wait while Group B hits their tee shots on the par 3 ("waving them up"). Since most of the guys in Group B miss the green, Group A can putt out, head to the next tee, and tee off during the time it takes Group B to walk up, chip on the green, and putt out. 

 

Group A still had to wait, but waited by the green instead of on the next tee.

Group B had a reduced wait time on the par 3 tee. 

 

Again, that's the theory.

 

And then the group you waved up has to wait for you on the next tee.  It doesn't make anything go faster.  It only increases the chances of someone getting hit by a golf ball.

[antip]

Very simple around here: club liability insurance is cheaper with no call up applying.

[naval2006]

Many years ago there was this 180 yard hole at a track in my area with a creek in front of the green. It was mandatory to wave when you were on the green. It was walking golf, awful sticks and 180 was almost driver distance for most players.  The waving on that hole has been gone for a long time now. 
 

I only see this procedure on a few reachable par fours, only on tournament days.  It’s the starter on the first tee or a notice on the corresponding tee that warns competitors. 

[mshills]

Haven’t seen this for a long time. It was done some one place where I caddied and it was a terrible practice. It did nothing to speed play, created congestion, and every now and then someone not paying attention would get absolutely smoked by an incoming s***. 

[Mr. Bean]

10 hours ago, naval2006 said:

I only see this procedure on a few reachable par fours, only on tournament days. 

 

Indeed. Such par3's where one could benefit from it are far and few between. On one course I have played around here there is a 200 meter par3 with teeing areas well above the putting green level. By walking it takes a few minutes to reach the green and by that time the group on the green has normally holed out. Next hole is a par5 with plenty of room for drive so it is not likely to have any hold up there. Furthermore there is a protective fence behind which players may hide when others are hitting from the tee.

 

Drivable par4's are a different animal as not every player goes for the green and not all the drives hit the green but in many cases balls have to be searched for. On such holes it may very well be beneficial to call on, in tournaments only, as suggested.

 

Edited May 10 by Mr. Bean