Kuchar/El Tucan caddie controversy (NO POLITICS)

[MelloYello]

That's what happened to El Tucan.

 

Matt Kuchar is an elite-level golfer winning on the world's biggest stage so let's go look at what a Fortune-500 company's top guy makes and do the math comparing that to a typical employee...

[Oldboy]

El Tucan is not a tour caddie therefore should not be paid as one. And THEY AGREED ON A NUMBER. He should have negotiated better and also take the extra 15k.

 

Maybe he could have punched his ticket to get the bag next year when he tries to defend the title. Well, that ship has sailed now.

 

They agreed on a salary and Kuchar said for a win he will give a bonus. It was not defined by either side. Kuchars big bonus for winning 1.3million was like .23%. WHat a great bonus huh? Imagine you meet your goals at work and the boss said "hey come on over to my office I got a bonus for ya", then he whips out a check for $17.83. That's what happened to El Tucan.

 

I met all of my goals last year and my bonus was way less than El Toucan got as a percentage of my employers profits.

 

I got somewhere in the range of 0.00244% bonus on my companies profit. El Tucan got a bonus that was about 100 times bigger than mine and he only worked for 5 or 6 days when I worked for 40-50 times the amount of time that he did. Should I complain?

 

Nah but your company is stingy as f*** .. Or should I say Kuch? Be happy with your 0.2% you commoner!

[jasonfish11]

 

Nah but your company is stingy as f***

 

The funny thing is they aren't.

[dropkicked]

I suspect a substantial portion of the galleries over the next few months will treat Kuchar with a perceptible level of disdain. For someone who has up to this point in his career been treated well by most fans, I'm interested to see how, or if this affects his performance.

 

This will be an interesting thing to watch, personally I don't feel it will be an ongoing story in the real world, beyond some light barbs from fans. But I think if he is in contention he'll get cheers.

 

I have been wrong before though (I think once in like 2011, and like maybe once in 2004 before that). So I could be wrong

well, you were wrong when you stated that you pay 60% in taxes (i'm canadian :) )... .. and because you also insinuated that most of those who support Tucan, can't afford to tip $3000.. and because you obviously don't, you must earn a substantial amount of $/year.. So you're def, not paying 60% in taxes.. One of my corps, I am only paying 15% in taxes and since I am only a peasant who thinks Tucan, deserves more... You must be paying less than, no?

lmao... I am guessing you're wrong a lot of the time..

[cheetah440]

Kucher could have easily paid him $50K+ and been a good guy. he won. Great time, feel good story, pay the poor peasant and change his life. He didn't. Because Kucher is a cheap f***, it's a simple as that. And not a good guy like he walks around pretending to be. A good guy looks for opportunities to be a good guy, not pretend with his awe gee shucks phony bullxxxx. And that's the bottom line. He didn't owe the guy a thing. Per contract he paid him everything he was entitled too. But Kucher is a fraud and a phony. At least everyone knows it now.

[stanger37]

Kucher could have easily paid him $50K+ and been a good guy. he won. Great time, feel good story, pay the poor peasant and change his life. He didn't. Because Kucher is a cheap f***, it's a simple as that. And not a good guy like he walks around pretending to be. A good guy looks for opportunities to be a good guy, not pretend with his awe gee shucks phony bullxxxx. And that's the bottom line. He didn't owe the guy a thing. Per contract he paid him everything he was entitled too. But Kucher is a fraud and a phony. At least everyone knows it now.

 

you're classy yourself "pay the 'poor peasant'" that screams how generous you would have been in his shoes.

[MtlJeff]

I suspect a substantial portion of the galleries over the next few months will treat Kuchar with a perceptible level of disdain. For someone who has up to this point in his career been treated well by most fans, I'm interested to see how, or if this affects his performance.

 

This will be an interesting thing to watch, personally I don't feel it will be an ongoing story in the real world, beyond some light barbs from fans. But I think if he is in contention he'll get cheers.

 

I have been wrong before though (I think once in like 2011, and like maybe once in 2004 before that). So I could be wrong

well, you were wrong when you stated that you pay 60% in taxes (i'm canadian :) )... .. and because you also insinuated that most of those who support Tucan, can't afford to tip $3000.. and because you obviously don't, you must earn a substantial amount of $/year.. So you're def, not paying 60% in taxes.. One of my corps, I am only paying 15% in taxes and since I am only a peasant who thinks Tucan, deserves more... You must be paying less than, no?

lmao... I am guessing you're wrong a lot of the time..

 

When I run for president I'll publish my tax returns. I don't really want to engage further with you. Have a great day

[MtlJeff]

I suspect a substantial portion of the galleries over the next few months will treat Kuchar with a perceptible level of disdain. For someone who has up to this point in his career been treated well by most fans, I'm interested to see how, or if this affects his performance.

 

This will be an interesting thing to watch, personally I don't feel it will be an ongoing story in the real world, beyond some light barbs from fans. But I think if he is in contention he'll get cheers.

 

I have been wrong before though (I think once in like 2011, and like maybe once in 2004 before that). So I could be wrong

well, you were wrong when you stated that you pay 60% in taxes (i'm canadian :) )... .. and because you also insinuated that most of those who support Tucan, can't afford to tip $3000.. and because you obviously don't, you must earn a substantial amount of $/year.. So you're def, not paying 60% in taxes.. One of my corps, I am only paying 15% in taxes and since I am only a peasant who thinks Tucan, deserves more... You must be paying less than, no?

lmao... I am guessing you're wrong a lot of the time..

 

I think both of our opinions have been stated enough that we aren't going to agree or change each other's minds. Have a great day my fellow Canadian.

 

 

[caloge]

It is pretty straightforward from my perspective, the agreement was $4k for top 10. Kuchar gave him a $1k bonus for winning. If you think that 1k bonus is sufficient when you consider he helped him win 1.3mil then cool. From my perspective, the bonus should have been substantial. 25-50k is probably the right figure. This is a pga tour win. Many players will play their whole careers and not get one, and Kuchar himself was on a four year drought before that win.

 

at the end of the day, regardless of anything else, he will be followed by headlines like this one I saw today on Deadspin: "Extremely Rich Golfer Matt Kuchar Defends Stiffing His Caddie"

 

I think avoiding that as your rep is easily worth 3% of one weekends salary, but what do i know. Maybe he'd rather have a new Honda Civic instead, or maybe he wanted the carbon brake package on his 911.

[caniac6]

I would think a guy that lost his card, and had to requalify,might have a bit of empathy for a struggling caddie. I guess not.

[CCTxGolf]

He offered 20k. That’s not a vote option...

 

I feel that is more than reasonable.

[Dpavs]

I am guessing this thread will also be destined for...

 

[Admhowarth]

I come down in the camp that both sides are wrong here. On the one hand, Kuch should have offered more at the time of the win (maybe he only had 5k in cash with him and forgot his checkbook...). On the other hand, the caddie signed up for a job with a sliding pay scale and now wants to renegotiate it.

 

The 15k extra was a peace offering and the caddie said no thanks. I don't think Kuch owes him anything else at this point.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

I am guessing this thread will also be destined for...

 

Should just be the coffin instead of the cooler because that's where threads go to die.

[Spongerob]

Actually I like both answers. First of all a contract is a contract. The world falls apart when that no longer applies. Kuchar fulfilled his agreed to obligations and even gave a bonus.

Having said that I would have given the guy more. That's just me. But I would never presume to tell someone else what to do with his money. Every pro golfer has worked insanely hard and dedicated their live to get their rewards...which are not guaranteed by any means. A gun for hire, 1 week caddie, is paid to show up, keep up, and shut up. Hired unskilled labor. That's it. The caddie doen't know English so he gave minimal help. We don't know the situation at all. For all we know he could have been a complete dick all week. Publicly demanding more after the fact is pretty sketch in my book. One thing is for sure. Neither guy comes out of this looking great. But the caddie looks worse in my eyes.

[drgolfaholic]

It would be amazing IF Kuchar paid the guy $50K quietly to protect him from the local mob while taking on a social media beating. Kinda like Dark Knight ending.

[bscinstnct]

It would be amazing IF Kuchar paid the guy $50K quietly to protect him from the local mob while taking on a social media beating. Kinda like Dark Knight ending.

 

Kuch say to Tuc like

 

[EdStraker]

From what I read so far, Kuchar's agent Mark Steinberg was the one that offered 20K, it wasn't Kuchar himself that offered the 20K.

[ilikegolf26]

It is pretty straightforward from my perspective, the agreement was $4k for top 10. Kuchar gave him a $1k bonus for winning. If you think that 1k bonus is sufficient when you consider he helped him win 1.3mil then cool. From my perspective, the bonus should have been substantial. 25-50k is probably the right figure. This is a pga tour win. Many players will play their whole careers and not get one, and Kuchar himself was on a four year drought before that win.

 

at the end of the day, regardless of anything else, he will be followed by headlines like this one I saw today on Deadspin: "Extremely Rich Golfer Matt Kuchar Defends Stiffing His Caddie"

 

I think avoiding that as your rep is easily worth 3% of one weekends salary, but what do i know. Maybe he'd rather have a new Honda Civic instead, or maybe he wanted the carbon brake package on his 911.

That headline is from Deadspin. No one actually reads Deadspin so no one even saw that headline.

[aliikane]

For 5k/week, I'd loop for Kuchar anytime.

[HitEmTrue]

From what I read so far, Kuchar's agent Mark Steinberg was the one that offered 20K, it wasn't Kuchar himself that offered the 20K.

 

Not really a difference...that's what agents are for.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

For 5k/week, I'd loop for Kuchar anytime.

Hey get behind me buddy, I called it first :)

[KillerPenguin]

I met all of my goals last year and my bonus was way less than El Toucan got as a percentage of my employers profits.

 

I got somewhere in the range of 0.00244% bonus on my companies profit. El Tucan got a bonus that was about 100 times bigger than mine and he only worked for 5 or 6 days when I worked for 40-50 times the amount of time that he did. Should I complain?

 

Also I'm comparing my companies profits to Kuchars winnings (revenue). If we looked at revenue based bonus from my company (like you are looking at for kuch) I'm even worse off then.

 

Quick what is the number for a good labor lawyer?

If the company had only two employees total and you were one of them, I suspect you'd be pretty pissed about it.

[lowheel]

It would be amazing IF Kuchar paid the guy $50K quietly to protect him from the local mob while taking on a social media beating. Kinda like Dark Knight ending.

 

Kuch say to Tuc like

 

 

this one is more spot on...

 

[jasonfish11]

I met all of my goals last year and my bonus was way less than El Toucan got as a percentage of my employers profits.

 

I got somewhere in the range of 0.00244% bonus on my companies profit. El Tucan got a bonus that was about 100 times bigger than mine and he only worked for 5 or 6 days when I worked for 40-50 times the amount of time that he did. Should I complain?

 

Also I'm comparing my companies profits to Kuchars winnings (revenue). If we looked at revenue based bonus from my company (like you are looking at for kuch) I'm even worse off then.

 

Quick what is the number for a good labor lawyer?

If the company had only two employees total and you were one of them, I suspect you'd be pretty pissed about it.

 

No I negotiate salary (including bonus structure) before I accept a job. I'm not dumb enough to think I'm owed anything outside of my salary. It's sad to see many people on here are that dumb though.

[lowheel]

For 5k/week, I'd loop for Kuchar anytime.

Hey get behind me buddy, I called it first :)

 

[Dave230]

For 5k/week, I'd loop for Kuchar anytime.

 

If he does how he usually does - top 10/top 25, then you're probably getting somewhere near 10%.

[bscinstnct]

Actually I like both answers. First of all a contract is a contract. The world falls apart when that no longer applies. Kuchar fulfilled his agreed to obligations and even gave a bonus.

Having said that I would have given the guy more. That's just me. But I would never presume to tell someone else what to do with his money. Every pro golfer has worked insanely hard and dedicated their live to get their rewards...which are not guaranteed by any means. A gun for hire, 1 week caddie, is paid to show up, keep up, and shut up. Hired unskilled labor. That's it. The caddie doen't know English so he gave minimal help. We don't know the situation at all. For all we know he could have been a complete dick all week. Publicly demanding more after the fact is pretty sketch in my book. One thing is for sure. Neither guy comes out of this looking great. But the caddie looks worse in my eyes.

 

Is it a "contract" if it's not fully executed?

 

 

[jasonfish11]

At first I as on board with Kuch being cheap. But screw that, after reading all of the moronic entitled brat responses. No an agreement was negotiated, it's the caddies fault for not getting a specific understanding of the agreement before. If the agreement was not good enough he should have walked.

 

I would have given more but I applaud Kuchar, not because I would have done the same, but because apparently society needs to be b**** slapped.

[dropkicked]

I met all of my goals last year and my bonus was way less than El Toucan got as a percentage of my employers profits.

 

I got somewhere in the range of 0.00244% bonus on my companies profit. El Tucan got a bonus that was about 100 times bigger than mine and he only worked for 5 or 6 days when I worked for 40-50 times the amount of time that he did. Should I complain?

 

Also I'm comparing my companies profits to Kuchars winnings (revenue). If we looked at revenue based bonus from my company (like you are looking at for kuch) I'm even worse off then.

 

Quick what is the number for a good labor lawyer?

If the company had only two employees total and you were one of them, I suspect you'd be pretty pissed about it.

 

No I negotiate salary (including bonus structure) before I accept a job. I'm not dumb enough to think I'm owed anything outside of my salary. It's sad to see many people on here are that dumb though.

You negotiated a 0.00244% bonus structure before taking the job???