Random Bandon Thread

[doc52]

16 hours ago, Edaw68 said:

#3

Had a 6 foot tester last Saturday on 3, putt hit a patch of the poa that was sticking up and went directly right. Made the whole group laugh including our caddie.

[Seamus_MacDuff]

11 hours ago, spud3 said:

I think it was mallrat (who works at one of the best public course in the PDX area) mentioned that it’s a matter of there not being any good source nursery from which they can get poa seed/sod

Given the experience of the first three courses, where they couldn't keep Poa out and eventually just let it take over, I don't understand why they seeded the Sheep Ranch greens with fine fescue.  Fine fescues like sandy well-draining soils, and I suspect the trouble is that Sheep Ranch really isn't built on well-draining soils as the sandstone is pretty close to the surface.  If you've played Sheep Ranch in heavy rain, you can attest to the drainage issues.  Poa sod is available from a Canadian nursery.....my old club in Salem resodded all of their greens with Poa sod 15+ years ago, and Chambers Bay did the same more recently. 

[2bGood]

14 hours ago, spud3 said:

I think it was mallrat (who works at one of the best public course in the PDX area) mentioned that it’s a matter of there not being any good source nursery from which they can get poa seed/sod

Poa is the dominant green in the PNW. I guess he would know better, but the majority of golf course in the area have Poa greens including PD, BD and BT. Apparently it took 13 years for PD to transition to Poa and they know eventually Old Mac, Preserve and Sheep ranch will go full Poa. At any rate it seem like a lot trouble to bring in the very fickle fescue when you know it will not make it long term.

[spud3]

Totally agree... I guess I'm just assuming that they are consulting with a whole bunch of agro-folks who know what they're doing.

 

It will be interesting to see what they start with on the new par 3 course.

[soregongolfer]

I'm interested in hearing from Mallrat, but I *think* you'd be hard pressed to find poa greens in Oregon outside of the coast.  Half of the ryegrass seed in our country is produced here as well as almost all of our country's bentgrass seed.  The Willamette Valley, and especially Linn County, are pretty proud of their grass.  I think virtually every course on the I-5 corridor uses rye and bentgrass.  Heron Lakes-Great Blue Course is the only in-land course I've played that had poa to my knowledge.  

 

Forage and Turf Grass Seed - Oregon Agriculture in the Classroom (oregonaitc.org)

[BG5]

On 3/31/2023 at 2:17 PM, 2bGood said:

Poa is the dominant green in the PNW. I guess he would know better, but the majority of golf course in the area have Poa greens including PD, BD and BT. Apparently it took 13 years for PD to transition to Poa and they know eventually Old Mac, Preserve and Sheep ranch will go full Poa. At any rate it seem like a lot trouble to bring in the very fickle fescue when you know it will not make it long term.

 

So how long do you think before the greens at Sheep will be rolling really well? 5 years?  I was there in 2020 and although they were young the greens at Sheep rolled pretty well at that time

[Edaw68]

I remember it being a couple years or so of rough greens, lotta dead spots, when Pac and Trails went through the transition.  But I don’t know if they just allowed it to go naturally or did something else. And it was about 10 to 15 years into the course’s development, not 3.

Edited April 2, 2023 by Edaw68

[Seamus_MacDuff]

17 hours ago, soregongolfer said:

I'm interested in hearing from Mallrat, but I *think* you'd be hard pressed to find poa greens in Oregon outside of the coast.  Half of the ryegrass seed in our country is produced here as well as almost all of our country's bentgrass seed.  The Willamette Valley, and especially Linn County, are pretty proud of their grass.  I think virtually every course on the I-5 corridor uses rye and bentgrass.  Heron Lakes-Great Blue Course is the only in-land course I've played that had poa to my knowledge.  

 

Forage and Turf Grass Seed - Oregon Agriculture in the Classroom (oregonaitc.org)

Actually, poa makes up virtually every putting green surface in Western Oregon. New courses will seed with bent because you can’t seed with poa, but poa eventually takes over. 

[2bGood]

On 4/1/2023 at 6:16 PM, BG5 said:

 

So how long do you think before the greens at Sheep will be rolling really well? 5 years?  I was there in 2020 and although they were young the greens at Sheep rolled pretty well at that time

Interesting question. They can roll well right now. In some ways dead bare greens are easier to make fast and smooth. This was the kind of shape they were in last year. 

 

How long until their health depends on the BD approach and how long they want them out of play and if they decide to move away from fescue. Fescue is tough to get right. 

[mallrat]

On 3/31/2023 at 5:58 AM, jvincent said:

 

One of the Youtube guys I follow in the UK has an episode where the greenskeeper created a new green using the hole punches from the existing greens. I don't remember the specifics of how much time/money it saved but I thought it was a great idea to get a new green with the same grass as all the others.

That is what we do for our nurseries. But it’s not feasible for 18 holes. It takes roughly 2 to 3 greens to grow in 1 green. Then it’s about a year out to get it where  it is really healthy and playable. 

[mallrat]

Let me say, first and foremost the agronomy staff at Bandon is top notch and they will get it figured out. I suspect a large part of the problem is how extreme our winter has been. Poa doesn’t go dormant and the fescue doesn’t really either but the Poa definitely likes the wet weather more than fescue. I’d be curious to see them mid summer. I also wonder how much is dependent on the amount of play. With Bandon setting new records for rounds played each of the last 3 years, I think it’s safe to say that Sheep Ranch has received more play than any of the other courses in their infancy. 
 

Poa is the dominant grass in the NW period. Over the mountains (Bend area) they have some luck keeping their greens bent but it takes work and $. Even then a lot of people still say it’s a losing battle. In fact from what I’ve heard the best greens over there (Bend Golf & Country Club) has Poa greens. 
 

Now as for seeding or sodding with Poa. 
There might be a nursery in Canada but I don’t know anyone who is going up there for sod. Around here (the Valley) P-Rye (perennial rye grass) and KBG (Kentucky Blue Grass) are the predominant grasses grown. One reason farms don’t grow Poa is because it is such a prolific seed producer. It will only take 1 Poa seed head to drift in the wind or in a birds poo or whatever, for Poa to start growing in a field of the other varieties. This is also the reason that there aren’t really any Poa seed producers. On top of that, the seed producers can’t create varietals. With all the other grasses you can keep them separate and create strains and hybrids but not with Poa. Poa is the only grass that has no natural immunity to diseases and the seed producers can’t create varietals because the fields just become infected with other strains. 
 

I hope this helps and let me know if I can answer anything else. 

[mallrat]

Also, we seed fairways and tees with rye but the Poa outcompetes it in a very short time. 
 

If you want to see the difference, an old super screwed up and had some guys put seed on the collections 2 year. Look closely at the collection area around #6 and the longer darker green stuff is rye that just hasn’t been taken over yet. (This is at my course, not Bandon)

[2bGood]

On 4/3/2023 at 11:30 PM, mallrat said:

That is what we do for our nurseries. But it’s not feasible for 18 holes. It takes roughly 2 to 3 greens to grow in 1 green. Then it’s about a year out to get it where  it is really healthy and playable. 

 

If this is true it would be an option for Bandon- they have 54 Poa greens on site. 😁

 

On 4/3/2023 at 11:46 PM, mallrat said:

Let me say, first and foremost the agronomy staff at Bandon is top notch and they will get it figured out. I suspect a large part of the problem is how extreme our winter has been. Poa doesn’t go dormant and the fescue doesn’t really either but the Poa definitely likes the wet weather more than fescue. I’d be curious to see them mid summer. I also wonder how much is dependent on the amount of play. With Bandon setting new records for rounds played each of the last 3 years, I think it’s safe to say that Sheep Ranch has received more play than any of the other courses in their infancy. 
 

Poa is the dominant grass in the NW period. Over the mountains (Bend area) they have some luck keeping their greens bent but it takes work and $. Even then a lot of people still say it’s a losing battle. In fact from what I’ve heard the best greens over there (Bend Golf & Country Club) has Poa greens. 
 

Now as for seeding or sodding with Poa. 
There might be a nursery in Canada but I don’t know anyone who is going up there for sod. Around here (the Valley) P-Rye (perennial rye grass) and KBG (Kentucky Blue Grass) are the predominant grasses grown. One reason farms don’t grow Poa is because it is such a prolific seed producer. It will only take 1 Poa seed head to drift in the wind or in a birds poo or whatever, for Poa to start growing in a field of the other varieties. This is also the reason that there aren’t really any Poa seed producers. On top of that, the seed producers can’t create varietals. With all the other grasses you can keep them separate and create strains and hybrids but not with Poa. Poa is the only grass that has no natural immunity to diseases and the seed producers can’t create varietals because the fields just become infected with other strains. 
 

I hope this helps and let me know if I can answer anything else. 

 

This is great info and I agree Bandon knows better than an 'armchair quarterback' like me. But if they wanted to go Poa sod I am sure they could make it work. There are Poa sod farms in BC and Washington for sure. It would have to be well coordinated but they could get it brought down and on the ground within 24hours. 

[Kernel]

We officially pulled the plug on SR for our trip in three weeks. Replaced it with a second round at Trails. 

 

It's the right call based on everything posted here, but it's disappointing to have to pass up a course. I have only played it once and that was in thick fog. It isn't my favorite of the courses, but I was excited to play it again when I could actually see past 150 yards. Next time, I guess . . . 

[ALo314]

31 minutes ago, Kernel said:

We officially pulled the plug on SR for our trip in three weeks. Replaced it with a second round at Trails. 

 

It's the right call based on everything posted here, but it's disappointing to have to pass up a course. I have only played it once and that was in thick fog. It isn't my favorite of the courses, but I was excited to play it again when I could actually see past 150 yards. Next time, I guess . . . 

I'm hoping the bounce back over the summer before our Sept trip

[mallrat]

3 hours ago, 2bGood said:

 

If this is true it would be an option for Bandon- they have 54 Poa greens on site. 😁

 

 

This is great info and I agree Bandon knows better than an 'armchair quarterback' like me. But if they wanted to go Poa sod I am sure they could make it work. There are Poa sod farms in BC and Washington for sure. It would have to be well coordinated but they could get it brought down and on the ground within 24hours. 

Do you know who the sod farms are?From a conversation with my boss, there is one Poa sod farm but it is not known who or where it is. If it’s the one I’m thinking of it was created specifically for Chambers and Chambers took all the sod. I’m not saying you are wrong, just that it’s not widely known. And per a couple other conversations, no one knows or of and/or doesn’t think you can even by Poa seed. 

[Seamus_MacDuff]

1 hour ago, mallrat said:

Do you know who the sod farms are?From a conversation with my boss, there is one Poa sod farm but it is not known who or where it is. 

https://www.bossod.com/golf-course-sod/northwest-poa-greens-sod/

[soregongolfer]

Our superintendent caught up to me today on our 10th hole.  I asked him about poa and got a 15 minute lecture on poa vs. bent vs. rye 😂.  He said our greens are definitely poa and showed me the poa in the fairway.  You guys are right!  He said Bar Run has bent grass on their greens, but "they are in for a rude awakening."  He's a good dude and a fellow Beaver.  I got a 15 minute lecture on thatch last summer.  

[mallrat]

2 hours ago, soregongolfer said:

Our superintendent caught up to me today on our 10th hole.  I asked him about poa and got a 15 minute lecture on poa vs. bent vs. rye 😂.  He said our greens are definitely poa and showed me the poa in the fairway.  You guys are right!  He said Bar Run has bent grass on their greens, but "they are in for a rude awakening."  He's a good dude and a fellow Beaver.  I got a 15 minute lecture on thatch last summer.  

Thats kind of the issue around here, you have to seed with something else (unless you want to sod) which will almost always be bent. On the coast fescue is a great option but not in the valley. We have a problem green and we have to use a special tine tool and throw down some bent seed about once a year. We still have patches of bent in our fairways. In the winter it’s the patches that look purple ish. 
 

Most supers actually love talking about this stuff and enjoy teaching people. 

[mallrat]

8 hours ago, Seamus_MacDuff said:

https://www.bossod.com/golf-course-sod/northwest-poa-greens-sod/

Thanks. I wonder if that’s the one where Chambers got it from and they just kept going. 
 

Supposedly you can look off to the side of the driving range and see a giant nursery at Chambers. 

[2bGood]

10 hours ago, mallrat said:

Do you know who the sod farms are?From a conversation with my boss, there is one Poa sod farm but it is not known who or where it is. If it’s the one I’m thinking of it was created specifically for Chambers and Chambers took all the sod. I’m not saying you are wrong, just that it’s not widely known. And per a couple other conversations, no one knows or of and/or doesn’t think you can even by Poa seed. 

Seamus beat me to it. Bos Sods is the only one I have interacted with, but I have not gone looking (no need).

Edited April 6, 2023 by 2bGood

[cg0rd0noo7]

Was at Bandon 4/4 - 4/7 with my wife so I will throw up a little recap of our experience.

 

Room:

 

We stayed in the round lake rooms and to be honest the room was excellent. The views out the back of Trails were great. The room itself was excellent. I was spacious and comfortable. 

Courses:

 

We played Perserve, Old Mac, Pacific Dunes, Bandon Dunes and Bandon Trails. We opted not to play Sheeps ranch because of all we heard about the greens. 

Perserve, Pacific Dunes, Dunes and Trails were all in excellent shape. Old Mac's greens are not great but I am sure they will be better once the fescue starts growing. 

 

We got surprising good weather compared to the forecast and the two of use were only paired with other people when we played Bandon Dunes. 

Caddies:

 

We were lucky and somehow were assign one caddie for each of us. Not sure how it happened but it was great. We had Jimmy and Bear. I cannot recommend them enough. 

Food:

 

We ate at McKees Pub (the meatloaf was excellent),  The tufted puffin for breakfast (the buffet was better than expected). We also ate lunch at the tufted puffin one day. The food was good but the service was so slow we almost missed our second round. We ate at Trails and the poke bowl was excellent. 

We were suppose to eat at the Pacific Grill but the day before the canceled our reservation. Pretty bummed about that especially cause we have had that reservation since we booked. 

We ended up eating in town that night and went to Bandon Brewing. The beer was good. Service was weird --> Basically never got our food until and hour later when they closed we asked about it and they said they thought our order was a call in order so we got cold pizza and wings. 

Overall it was a really good experience. 

[Double Mocha Man]

4 hours ago, cg0rd0noo7 said:

Was at Bandon 4/4 - 4/7 with my wife so I will throw up a little recap of our experience.

 

Room:

 

We stayed in the round lake rooms and to be honest the room was excellent. The views out the back of Trails were great. The room itself was excellent. I was spacious and comfortable. 

Courses:

 

We played Perserve, Old Mac, Pacific Dunes, Bandon Dunes and Bandon Trails. We opted not to play Sheeps ranch because of all we heard about the greens. 

Perserve, Pacific Dunes, Dunes and Trails were all in excellent shape. Old Mac's greens are not great but I am sure they will be better once the fescue starts growing. 

 

We got surprising good weather compared to the forecast and the two of use were only paired with other people when we played Bandon Dunes. 

Caddies:

 

We were lucky and somehow were assign one caddie for each of us. Not sure how it happened but it was great. We had Jimmy and Bear. I cannot recommend them enough. 

Food:

 

We ate at McKees Pub (the meatloaf was excellent),  The tufted puffin for breakfast (the buffet was better than expected). We also ate lunch at the tufted puffin one day. The food was good but the service was so slow we almost missed our second round. We ate at Trails and the poke bowl was excellent. 

We were suppose to eat at the Pacific Grill but the day before the canceled our reservation. Pretty bummed about that especially cause we have had that reservation since we booked. 

We ended up eating in town that night and went to Bandon Brewing. The beer was good. Service was weird --> Basically never got our food until and hour later when they closed we asked about it and they said they thought our order was a call in order so we got cold pizza and wings. 

Overall it was a really good experience. 

 

On that last part you were very generous.  Who screwed up and posted your order as a call in???

[cg0rd0noo7]

2 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

On that last part you were very generous.  Who screwed up and posted your order as a call in???

the person that took our order in person. 

[jpdx]

On 4/10/2023 at 5:52 PM, cg0rd0noo7 said:

the person that took our order in person. 

Im at a loss for words. How does that even happen?

[Jeff58]

10 hours ago, jpdx said:

Im at a loss for words. How does that even happen?

You ain’t from round here, eh?
 

[jpdx]

3 hours ago, Jeff58 said:

You ain’t from round here, eh?
 

I am, but still… took order in person AND it was correct but marked as call in? 
 

even if they were that high, im not sure the order would be correct. Haha. 

[jrg75]

Played Bandon this morning, started as beautiful morning, sunny with little wind.  On the 8th hole the skys opened up but not rain, hail. 8th green and looking back on 3rd green from 9 teebox.

Edited April 12, 2023 by jrg75

[jrg75]

10 min later on 10th hole.  Lol, love Oregon weather.

[Jeff58]

1 hour ago, jpdx said:

I am, but still… took order in person AND it was correct but marked as call in? 
 

even if they were that high, im not sure the order would be correct. Haha. 

We had a stoned guy make a panini. We watched closely, but he did a good job putting it together. He then put it in the panini press and started to do something else. About 15 minutes later, I said “excess me, is our panini ready?”. He looked around confused for a bit, then saw that it was in the press. “No. It’s in the press”.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Jeff58