Mavrik vs SIM

[bogeypro]

Not you directly. Just think people hit a shot to the right and think, must have been twist face not helping me. I play taylormade, Callaway, Titleist... my miss is the same with all of them.

[Warrick]

So, someone shares their opinion and you tell them “Just wrong”

What?

we get how much you like the SIM, enjoy it.

[Jamie_Tee]

I went for a fitting and hit the Sim Max, Maverik Max, Speedzone Xtreme amongst some others. Those 3 performed very similar, as I suspect they would for everyone in the hands of a good fitter. I walked away with the Cobra based on my thoughts on confidence over the ball and feel. Head shape/colour of the sim made the shaft look much longer at address than the other two (to my eye), had to check all 3 were the same length and was surprised they were.

[Tree Levino]

i don’t think twist face is to blame for right shots with Sim but I do think that something about the design does it. Not sure whether it’s the inertia generator (dumbest name in the world), the lie angle, or something else but if you watch reviews you can see the same pattern. Face is more open to the path often. I mean getitdaily had to buy an aftermarket weight to mod his so it worked. There’s an entire thread saying people are hitting them off the planet right. It isn’t make believe there is something in the design that makes it harder to turn over. Many pros fight hooks yet you never see them with these set to fade (hot melt could be at play here too I realize). FWIW I only got to hit Sim Max in a simulator. It was fine but my TS3 outperformed it handily.

[fyrglfr]

Your are correct...My bad.

[Warrick]

I a going to print this and show my wife I was right...once, lol.

[getitdaily]

Until the other site releases CoG data, we won't know for sure. I'm willing to bet the heel/toe CoG on both SIM drivers is toe side. I suspect the front track weight in the heel produces a neutral heel/toe CoG.

I also believe this driver is a lot like what folks have said about TS3...shaft matters.

I will say, for me, that once I got it dialed in, it's phenomenal. Note that I added the front weight for a couple of reasons...

1. I needed to up the swingweight and 4g of lead tape on a driver is a bit more than I wanted

2. On launch monitor testing I saw a tendency for the face to close or square relative to path. Added weight in the front track was meant to help slow face rate of closure.

On course testing showed that my original plan to have the 4g in the heel and 10g more centered produced big time right sidespin. I fade the ball sonic put right sidespin anyway. After a good bit of frustration I decided to set the driver up to "hook it off the planet"...upright lie, 10g in heel, 4g in heel. I was able to hit consistent draws/hooks with that setting so I moved the 4g to the center and found bliss. I ended up going to an X flex shaft (I have S and X in the 125msi rogue) to help offset a bit of the left starting point with the upright lie setting. That combo has been my setup for over a month now.

[bogeypro]

So if it is fade biased... big deal. Adjust the weight, use softer tip shaft, or go to the draw type. That's what fitting is all about. Demo clubs and get fit.

For me, I fight going left so the Callaway is a hook machine for me... they always are for me. I can go stiffer tip or sub zero, which I did, but still it liked to turn left easier than I prefer.

That's what it's all about.... choices. I'd hate for them to all be the same.

[Tree Levino]

Agreed I just think that out of the box it would be better if the head was neutral and the moveable weights changed things accordingly. The M5 was fade bias too and even guys like Rory and tiger had weights back and set to draw. Having to fine and tune with stiffer tips or opening the face is a better solution IMO.

[J13]

Again no one ever said it one club or another prevents a block I specifically said it made it worse and that was the case on the course and on flightscope. There is not one type of blocked shot and the club does not have to be a square. Someone like me who misses high toe with an in to out path the twist face goes more offline. That's a FACT not opinion, numbers and course testing don't lie.

So for everyone out there, twist face is a design element to help with certain misses which means it can also have the opposite effect on misses it wasn't intended to correct. This is also the reason why twist face is measured on TM tour vans but i guess they don't know what their doing either and should listen to a golfwrx member who uses his individual experience as fact.

 

Nothing more to say on this topic now that we are all on the same page with facts and not opinions. Enjoy the SIM and SIM Max if they work well for you. Have at it and you can't go wrong as TM makes a great driver.

 

 

[driveandputtmachine]

If your path is in to out, and club face is square it is a block. If you are in to out and the clubface is open it is a push slice/cut. If your miss is tow side, with twist face(it has not changed from the m5/m6 to the SIM) you will not like any of those drivers. If the SIM is more fade biased than the M5/M6, and with the M5/M6 you were in to out with a slightly closed face then of course the SIM wouldn't be a good fit for you.

This is simple geometry. Saying the driver is bad or causes your blocks, is incorrect. Your path causes the path (headweight, total weight, swing weight can all be path killers) the heads weighting can cause the the face to be more open and the twist face can make it to where it doesn't help you either. If you want your path going big time in to out and play a big draw, and your miss is on the toe, then the SIM with it's fade biased nature and twist face will almost never be a good fit.

So if the SIM is giving you big blocks that are way right, then you have a horribly fitted driver from COG/HW/SW/TW perspective.

For myself I prefer to play a cut, and my miss tends to be toe side, a ball starting left(where I aimed) that hits the toe, it can go even farther left. No bueno. I have mainly played Cobra drivers as they had something similar to "twist face" since the LTD, so my toe misses weren't punished as hard. I also tend to use club heads that are fade biased, a draw biased club that the face could be square or closed to my path would be no bueno. I already know my total weight/shaft weight/head weight/swing eight that lets me more often than not swing my correct path.

[dwh24]

Both are very nice, Mavrik sounds better but SIM just feels more solid off the face. Doesn't help that im a taylormade guy tho. LOL

[MileHighGuye]

Hit both. The SIm Max was way fade bias for me. Couldn’t even keep it in play

 

tried the Mavrik Today and absolutely love It.

 

Haven’t tried standard sim but that may be the key or even sim max d

[bogeypro]

@J13 Dude, calm down. You literally started all this with your experience on hitting blocks with sim and trying to pass it off as facts. I think you have bad misconception about hitting blocks and pushes and how twist face works.
Twist face is there to add more loft and backspin for toe hits, not sure why you think it sends balls farther to the right.
Fyi... I do not work for taylormade.

[J13]

Dude? @bogeypro You literally have no idea what twist face does and you have no idea why they measure it for tour pro's, that much is clear. It's funny you feel the need to mention you don't work for TM because you're like so many others that get butt hurt when someone doesn't like your driver. It was also terrible in the TXG reviews so i'm guessing that hurt your feelings too?

From TM's website since i'm not exactly going to get a TM tour van guy to chime in.
Twist Face®Uses corrective face angles designed to overcome inherent golfer tendencies on mis-hits and to produce straighter shot

[getitdaily]

Twist face is designed to add loft to a shot hit in the high toe section. By doing that spin is increased and that section of the face is more open to path than the rest of the face. For a path in to out and face closed to path, it's designed to reduce hook spin. For an out to in path and a face open to path a strike in that location will also be more open to path. For a block, path in to out and face square or slightly open to path, a high toe strike will be more open to path.

Now, add gear effect and all of those face and path relationships change a bit.

You guys are both right about twist face and its tendency to help or hurt mishits. It all depends on your face and path AND where you have CoG set.

I don't care who you are, in to out path, face square to open, high toe strike, and DJ fade setting and that ball is going miles right. In to out, closed face, high toe strike and DJ fade setting and it's still going right...just not as much.

Out to in path, open face to path, high toe strike and fade setting...miles right. Out to in, closed face to path, high toe strike, fade setting and the ball could go relatively straight.

All depends how much open or closed to path the face is and how much you're in or out on path.

I'll add, I'm a fader and I love twist face. My path is never more than 3 degree out to in and i can get into a bad stretch where i get a bit in to out. I'm center to high toe in my strike location. I've hit a double cross here and there that was a dead straight ball that found fairway. Sure, one can get away right if I'm not careful, but I'm a fader...

[SJL1216]

Mavrik Subzero for me, the SIM to me didn't jump off the club like the Mavrik. The SIM is a great drvier too. Just gotta hit both back to back and check the numbers.

[bogeypro]

@J13 I still don't understand why you are taking this so personal and getting so upset. We could have a nice discussion about twist face and what affects we have seen, but you need to calm down first.
TXG reviews for the Sim were great. Where are you seeing that they were terrible? They kept saying how stable it was and Matt's numbers were great. They actually said multiple times how good it was. Yes, it was beaten by the mavrik in the showdown videos, but they didn't say it was horrible - was actually the opposite.
Why do you keep mentioning that the tour van keeps measuring it? They measure everything. I would expect them to do that.
Also, there are many reviews and tests of twist face on the internet. I found this one to be interesting... from Mile of Golf comparing toe hits M3 with twist face versus Ping G400 max:
... " As we can see, I stuck this shot approximately 11mm towards the toe, and the ball started slightly left of the target line and had a good amount of curvature to the left. Overall the ball ended up almost 87 feet left of the target. With this strike and a less forgiving club the result would have been worse, but still 87 feet offline is borderline in terms of how playable my next shot would be. The next picture is a shot hit with the TaylorMade.  In terms of strike point, this shot was hit 14mm towards the toe. So in terms of where the ball was struck on the club face, the strike points were extremely similar. The major difference is this shot started slightly left and had a slight draw to it instead the higher amount of curve that the same strike with the Ping had. Because of the lower amount of curve, this shot ended up 32 feet left of the target, which on just about any hole you can play will end up in the fairway. I can 100% attribute this to twist face, as a strike that far off center for me will generally have a decent amount of curvature to the left, whereas this shot held its line with very little curvature." https://www.milesofgolf.com/twist-face-vs-moment-of-inertia/

[agladden]

Both great clubs. I struggle to get away from TM; the twist face helps give me the look of seeing a more open face imo. Can't go wrong with either if fit correctly.

[boggyman]

I use to be a total anti TM till I demoed a m6 on the course last year for 9 holes,it belonged to a playing partner. Went out after he round and bought one. Played it and m5 till few days ago. SIM in bag now. TM drivers are legit. Can get a MAVRIK on the cheap, new, I’m tempted but like the TM too well.

[Jnardelean19]

I have also tried both Mavrik and Sub zero and the SIM beat both of them.

[swh0507]

I fit into a SIM 10.5, turned down to 9, Ventus blue velocore 6x. Seeing fantastic results. I am a stat guy, last year I averaged 55% fairways (Cobra f9, PO), this year through 14 rounds, 68%.

I hit the Mavrik, but I just don't get along with Callaway woods. When I look down at the club, the face looks too rounded to me and doesn't inspire confidence. Had that issue for years with Callaway so I guess I have some predisposition bias. Funny, that used to be the case with TM drivers.

[J13]

@bogeypro Please calm down and stop being so defensive. This conversation isn't going anywhere so i'm going to end it.

[bogeypro]

@J13 me being defensive?! Lmao Omg dude, you need to read your posts again.. crazy... LOL Have a good one.

[stoneydukes]

Played 2 rounds with Mavrik. Ranges closed at both courses so zero practice shots yet with this driver. Far more confidence inspiring TO ME than the SIM and hitting it as well as my M5 on its best days. Already put the Tensei Pro White in it and it will be in the bag all season for sure. Last Callaway driver I hit with any real decent results was the Epic when it came out and even that wasn't much better than M3 at the time if I remember correctly. For my swing, this thing is a beast. Std Mav playing at N/-1 or D/-1 45.5" with an 8g weight replacing the stock 5g. Kinda took a risk on this buying it without ever hitting one but glad I gave it a chance.

[driveandputtmachine]

Everyone is different and depending on your face to path twist face may or may not be good for you and your misses.

For me.....

SIM and SIM SZ - Incredible ballspeeds, I could get a good distance fit with numerous shafts. Far and away for me the longest driver of 2020 that I tried. Here's where it gets interesting. I struggle sometimes to hit my driver on the planet, bit of an exaggeration, but when my game goes south it is normally because I am driving it into trouble. While hitting the Mavrik series the fitter kept wanting to remove anything but perfect strikes with a great swing. UH, no my man, that's how long drive competitions are played, but not actual golf. Unfortunately no combination of weight, lead tape or shaft could get rid of the big left miss or the big right miss. I was missing both ways. No bueno, yes I know it's not the club's fault, but my warm up session with my gamer had one left miss out of 15, and everything else was center to right side of fairway.

SIM and SIM Max - both helped with the two way miss. Preferred the shape of the SIM, Max wasn't really that much different for me in numbers to the G400 Max, but I didn't see a left miss (one that would have been in the treeliine) when I had a shaft weight I liked. Dispersion was close enough to not make a difference, and distance was within a couple of yards. SIM, the dispersion was a bit worse, but not enough to make me not want to play it, since it had a one-way miss as well which always rocks. The distance was longer than every club I tried except the Mavrik and Cobra Speedzone, but I could never get the dispersion and one way miss I desired with them (Cobra was close, but not much better than my G400 MAX).

In short, I like to aim left and hit a cut. Cobra and SIM seemed to give less toey hooks on that swing. Cobra just never got me excited, I wasn't as confident with it, but it was CLOSE. I liked the Speedzone better than the SIM max, and the extreme less than the Sim Max. The two way miss with the Mavrik is what stopped me from getting it. Sure, if I was playing superball or long drive contests for shorter hitters it would be in the bag. For me, I need one way miss help as much as possible and a little extra distance doesn't hurt. So the SIM is in the bag with the 400 MAX currently, and as I get more range time to dial the SIM in I am pretty hopeful it takes the top spot.

[clinkinfo]

I’m pretty sure he keeps telling you they measure the twist face because better players don’t want it on the head, so they need to know which have the least “twist face”

twist face is not universally loved among reviewers and obviously players here, and in a way you are both kinda right. If it works for you, great, it works. If it doesn’t work for you, it tends to make things worse, not better. It’s really that simple and probably why roll and bulge design stops at a certain optimal point. For some people, going past that optimal would be great and help, for others, it will hurt. So designers pick a “best” stoping point. That’s what this discussion is about. If twist face helps you, great. But saying it louder or more often isn’t going to make it help the person it hurts. That’s kind a design trade off fundamental.

[N2N2]

I agree with others that Mavrik SZ is more of a 2 way miss. More left than anything. Never got it dialed in over 10 rounds. Definitely long when flushed, but just not enough for me to keep it. I don't own the SIM, but played with it a few rounds. Swallower face compared to Mavrik and more of a one way miss, right which I prefer.

[Man_O_War]

hope the "Swallower face" didn;t swallow your balls.

[sfdoddsy]

I'm also curious to see the COG data, but it is interesting how different swings change perception.

I'm gaming the SIM at the moment and I've not hit a more consistently draw friendly driver that isn't advertised as draw-biased (ie PING SFT/M6D).

That's why I switched to it from the F9.

I'd prefer it to be more forgiving, but my bad miss when swinging hard was a push/fade right.

Not with the SIM. One way miss only.