Best ball strikers by era

[Golferpaul]

3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Jack obviously was a great player….that said no one shot makes a guy a great ballstriker.  

What does?

[Shilgy]

17 minutes ago, Golferpaul said:

What does?

 I would say mostly irons and wedge game. The ability, and willingness in competition, to hit various shots successfully to the point it is almost routine.  Not just one time.

Morikawa is a wonderful iron player but tends to rely almost exclusively on his stock fade.

Johnny Miller and Tiger come to mind, for me, as the best at this. Some call it the nine window drill . High medium low trajectory all with straight or with a fade or draw.

[Nels55]

Just now, Shilgy said:

 I would say mostly irons and wedge game. The ability, and willingness in competition, to hit various shots successfully to the point it is almost routine.  Not just one time.

Morikawa is a wonderful iron player but tends to rely almost exclusively on his stock fade.

Johnny Miller and Tiger come to mind, for me, as the best at this. Some call it the nine window drill . High medium low trajectory all with straight or with a fade or draw.

That ability is one reason that many consider Moe Norman to be the greatest ball striker of all time.  He could hit any shape including dead straight which is supposed to be the most difficult.  He could also hit the 9 windows with no problem, I remember seeing a video where he called out the height of each shot in feet before hitting it.  

[Shilgy]

35 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

That ability is one reason that many consider Moe Norman to be the greatest ball striker of all time.  He could hit any shape including dead straight which is supposed to be the most difficult.  He could also hit the 9 windows with no problem, I remember seeing a video where he called out the height of each shot in feet before hitting it.  

I guess when I said “in competition “ I meant on the biggest stage.  He rarely played the PGA Tour.

 

There may be some mystical striker from Tibet or somewhere(wee bit of a Shivas Irons reference), the Sidd Finch of golf, but in my opinion you need to prove it in competition.

[Golferpaul]

5 hours ago, Shilgy said:

 I would say mostly irons and wedge game. The ability, and willingness in competition, to hit various shots successfully to the point it is almost routine.  Not just one time.

Morikawa is a wonderful iron player but tends to rely almost exclusively on his stock fade.

Johnny Miller and Tiger come to mind, for me, as the best at this. Some call it the nine window drill . High medium low trajectory all with straight or with a fade or draw.

OK, I looked at the stats for Strokes Gained approach the green which should translate to iron play and "ball striking"  The PGA Tour has been keeping these stats since 2004.  Here are some observations for 2004 - 2021;

 

Tiger has five first place wines and eight top tens

Stenson has three first place wins and four top tens

Furyk has two first place and eight top tens

Garcia has one first place and five top tens

Mickelson has no first place and six top tens

 

So over that time period I would say Tiger was the best ball Stricker (no surprise) and Furyk was second.

[nikeblades00]

You guys crack me up mentioning guys like Garcia and Westwood but no one has mentioned VJ Singh? 34 PGA tour wins and he putts worse than a 20 HC. He has 22 tour wins after age 40.  

[ChrisL52188]

I would add Tom Lehman as for ball striking. He was a below average putter. 

From 1995-1998, he was in the final pairing of the US Open those years, if he putted better, he perhaps would have won a US Open. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by ChrisL52188

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, Golferpaul said:

OK, I looked at the stats for Strokes Gained approach the green which should translate to iron play and "ball striking"  The PGA Tour has been keeping these stats since 2004.  Here are some observations for 2004 - 2021;

 

Tiger has five first place wines and eight top tens

Stenson has three first place wins and four top tens

Furyk has two first place and eight top tens

Garcia has one first place and five top tens

Mickelson has no first place and six top tens

 

So over that time period I would say Tiger was the best ball Stricker (no surprise) and Furyk was second.

 

31 minutes ago, ChrisL52188 said:

I would add Tom Lehman as for ball striking. He was a below average putter. 

From 1995-1998, he was in the final pairing of the US Open those years, if he putted better, he perhaps would have won a US Open. 

That’s why it can be an interesting thread.  For instance….VJ is certainly an all time ballstriker….Lehman?  Nice player but was a better Kenny Perry.  Played a draw virtually exclusively.  He was the anti Bruce Lietzke who played exclusively a fade.  
  The wins mentioned above are ….well not meaningless but not the point imo.  Aaron Baddeley has been one of the best putters on tour for the last decade….near the top in SG putting but his long game is lacking to the point the putter just cannot make it up.  The anti VJ if you will.

 

So, to me, there is a difference between being a great ballstriker and a great irons player. A guy playing one exclusive ball flight is not what I think of when discussing ballstrikers.  YMMV

[Man_O_War]

14 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

What does?

versatility, shot making, shot shaping, contact quality and so on...that's a ball striker extraordinaire. 

That's why Hogan, Trevino, Woods, and others are rated higher than Nicklaus in the ballers department. 

[Golferpaul]

1 hour ago, Man_O_War said:

versatility, shot making, shot shaping, contact quality and so on...that's a ball striker extraordinaire. 

 

And that should result in high "SG; approach the green" numbers.  If it doesn't, then "versatility, shot making, shot shaping, contact quality" has no value.

[bladehunter]

This guy with this iteration of swing hit the golf ball the best of any human ever on this planet.  
 

 

 

[bladehunter]

38 minutes ago, Golferpaul said:

And that should result in high "SG; approach the green" numbers.  If it doesn't, then "versatility, shot making, shot shaping, contact quality" has no value.

It would if we took some of the equipment help away.  
 

 

[nikeblades00]

Again VJ Singh won 34 times on the PGA tour and 3 majors and he's never made a 5 footer that Ive seen 😂. I think everyone admits he's the worst putter they have ever seen. So I'm going to go on a limb and say VJ is one of the best ball strikers of all time. End the discussion.

[Golferpaul]

On 4/22/2022 at 3:35 PM, nikeblades00 said:

Again VJ Singh won 34 times on the PGA tour and 3 majors and he's never made a 5 footer that Ive seen 😂. I think everyone admits he's the worst putter they have ever seen. So I'm going to go on a limb and say VJ is one of the best ball strikers of all time. End the discussion.

 

VJ was a great ball striker for a few years but never got to #1 in SG.  He was #2 twice, and always better than average.  His stats were similar to Mickelsons.  VJ had four top-10 years, then dropped off quickly.

 

But there is a lot more to golf than irons and putting. His poor putting isn't proof of good ball striking.

 

He had a great short game and ranked in the top10 for 2004 - 2006 in SG: around the green.  

[farmer]

On 4/21/2022 at 6:50 AM, Fairway14 said:

For a few decades I have been a spectator at dozens of Tour events, including Majors.  Brad Faxon, Billy Mayfair, and Jose Maria Olazabal are three players come to mind who did not hit the ball as consistently solid as several amateurs and club pros I've known.

Did your buds win a US Am, Publinks and 5 tour events?  Billy did.  Win the Haskins award, 8 tour events and play in a couple of Ryder Cups?  Brad did.  Win two Masters, 6 US tour events, 23 Euro events, star in 7 Ryder Cups, captain a winning Ryder Cup team and be elected to the World Golf HoF?  Jose did.

[BombinJim]

It was a ballstrikers birthday yesterday with two from different eras celebrating: Johnny Miller and Justin Thomas.

[stinger_gc]

On 4/22/2022 at 6:25 AM, Man_O_War said:

versatility, shot making, shot shaping, contact quality and so on...that's a ball striker extraordinaire. 

That's why Hogan, Trevino, Woods, and others are rated higher than Nicklaus in the ballers department. 

Tiger is probably the best shot shaper of all time and these 2 videos demonstrate that. It's amazing how he talks about hitting his "windows". 

 

 

 

 

 

[BombinJim]

46 minutes ago, KizIsTheMan said:

Tiger is probably the best shot shaper of all time and these 2 videos demonstrate that. It's amazing how he talks about hitting his "windows". 

 

 

 

 

 

Goes to show how Tiger and Morikawa should not even be in the same sentence.

[stinger_gc]

53 minutes ago, BombinJim said:

Goes to show how Tiger and Morikawa should not even be in the same sentence.

Agreed. Morikawa is a great iron player and has accomplished a lot but he's got maybe 1/2 the shots in his arsenal that Tiger does. Collin is a great ball-striker but he really isn't shot shaper like Tiger.  I've found a bunch of videos on Taylormade's youtube channel and it's mind blowing what he can do

 

 

 

 

[BombinJim]

6 hours ago, KizIsTheMan said:

Agreed. Morikawa is a great iron player and has accomplished a lot but he's got maybe 1/2 the shots in his arsenal that Tiger does. Collin is a great ball-striker but he really isn't shot shaper like Tiger.  I've found a bunch of videos on Taylormade's youtube channel and it's mind blowing what he can do

 

 

 

 

Could not agree more! Great ball striker but he only has a fade in the bag. Someone wake me up when he turns into an artist/shot shaper before heralding him as the next Tiger.

[ChrisL52188]

15 hours ago, KizIsTheMan said:

Tiger is probably the best shot shaper of all time and these 2 videos demonstrate that. It's amazing how he talks about hitting his "windows". 

 

 

 

 

 

I think Seve Ballesteros would give him a run at that. The man was a genius with the club...  But Seve was a horrible driver of the ball compared to his peers.... 

 

"Seve Ballesteros was the best trouble-shot player who ever lived. It didn't matter how far in the woods you put that guy, he'd find a way to get out"-Lee Trevino 

Edited May 1, 2022 by ChrisL52188

[TheDeanAbides]

On 4/21/2022 at 9:59 PM, Nels55 said:

That ability is one reason that many consider Moe Norman to be the greatest ball striker of all time.  He could hit any shape including dead straight which is supposed to be the most difficult.  He could also hit the 9 windows with no problem, I remember seeing a video where he called out the height of each shot in feet before hitting it.  

This is why Faldo was so great a ball striker. He had about five different ways to hit every shot in the book. He used the muscles in his body differently to control distance too.

[ac6]

On 4/30/2022 at 2:25 PM, BombinJim said:

Could not agree more! Great ball striker but he only has a fade in the bag. Someone wake me up when he turns into an artist/shot shaper before heralding him as the next Tiger.

 

I think CM knows that and I think we'll see him expand his arsenal in the coming years. You can see it in the questions he's asking Tiger in those TM videos. JT was the same way as a young player--could flush the hell out of the ball, but didn't have all the shots and Tiger let him know it. Worked on it and now is much more comfortable with it

[bscinstnct]

On 4/22/2022 at 9:24 AM, bladehunter said:

This guy with this iteration of swing hit the golf ball the best of any human ever on this planet.  
 

 

 

 

 

Classic TW 1.0.

 

Im no swing guru but what strikes me is the total clear hips and “room” he gives his arms from his body. 
 

I think this requires more timing and eye hand coordination than the really “connected” swings that hogan or many guys have. But I think it gives more freedom to hit all those shots TW had. He still does but back then he could hit anything,

 

 

[golferdude54]

Hal Sutton is seriously underrated, I’ve only seen his name mentioned a couple times in this thread. In 1998, he led the tour in ball striking, total driving and GIR stats and he was 4th in driving accuracy; very few players since 1980 has had a combined stat of 2 in ball striking (#1 in total driving and #1 in GIR) and he was one of them. 

 

In Jody Vasquez’s book “Afternoons with Mr. Hogan” he was Ben’s practice caddy at Shady Oaks CC in the late 60s and he commented on how different the sound of his club hitting the ball at impact sounded to everyone else’s. He wrote that he never heard quite an impact sound like Ben’s until he saw and heard Hal Sutton hit the ball. Be the right club today, indeed!

[Fairway14]

On 4/26/2022 at 7:54 PM, farmer said:

Did your buds win a US Am, Publinks and 5 tour events?  Billy did.  Win the Haskins award, 8 tour events and play in a couple of Ryder Cups?  Brad did.  Win two Masters, 6 US tour events, 23 Euro events, star in 7 Ryder Cups, captain a winning Ryder Cup team and be elected to the World Golf HoF?  Jose did.

 

Obviously Olazabal, Mayfair, and Faxon achieved sensational winning records. But the post of yours I replied to was not about winning records, it was to address your false claim that all Tour pros are phenomenal ball strikers.

This thread is about "ball strikers" and I expect that anyone who truly understands the highest level of golf performance knows that ball striking is vastly overrated. No player ever hit all the fairways and greens. At the highest level of Tour play winning always comes down to those with the sharpest games from inside 50 yards, including putting.

[TheDeanAbides]

On 5/8/2022 at 3:41 AM, Fairway14 said:

 

Obviously Olazabal, Mayfair, and Faxon achieved sensational winning records. But the post of yours I replied to was not about winning records, it was to address your false claim that all Tour pros are phenomenal ball strikers.

This thread is about "ball strikers" and I expect that anyone who truly understands the highest level of golf performance knows that ball striking is vastly overrated. No player ever hit all the fairways and greens. At the highest level of Tour play winning always comes down to those with the sharpest games from inside 50 yards, including putting.

Olazabal was a sensational iron player. You don’t get to be one without being a very good ball striker. 

[Jtgavigan]

Nice to see this thread still going. 🙂

[Golferpaul]

On 4/30/2022 at 9:35 AM, KizIsTheMan said:

Agreed. Morikawa is a great iron player and has accomplished a lot but he's got maybe 1/2 the shots in his arsenal that Tiger does. Collin is a great ball-striker but he really isn't shot shaper like Tiger. 

 

And like several others like Phil, Jordan, Jack, etc.  Watching Scheffler over the past few months has been interesting as he moves the ball both ways.

[smashdn]

On 5/1/2022 at 9:04 PM, ac6 said:

 

I think CM knows that and I think we'll see him expand his arsenal in the coming years. You can see it in the questions he's asking Tiger in those TM videos. JT was the same way as a young player--could flush the hell out of the ball, but didn't have all the shots and Tiger let him know it. Worked on it and now is much more comfortable with it

 

I love ballstriking and ballstrikers.  My favorite aspect of the game.

 

A question I find myself coming back to, do the guys on tour really need all these shots to be successful?  Is it really going to be worth their time to hone that high draw when it might not be needed but in rare, escape type circumstances, and then what level of control the player already has is sufficient to get out of jail?

 

Do you really need five different shots to hit the same yardage in modern golf?  Is that line of thinking a holdover from the "old way" to think about playing golf?