Monte's new No Turn - Cast

[rchang72]

I found that when I threw the cast, I had more pain. When I rehearse as intention before my shot, less pain

 

for the wedge, just do cast B. Not enough time in partial swings to do cast A

[Fairways_and_Greens]

23 minutes ago, JetPilot said:

Same.   I’m going to have to take a break, which is killing me because I’m hitting it as well as I ever have.  

Maybe do the Justin Rose drill a bit where your torso stays closed to the target until it feels your hands get down to belly height... my experience is that while I'm doing cast 1, my shoulders can unwind and the subsequent rerouting causes the pain.

[CasualLie]

My recent experience maybe helpful to those looking for more cast B feel.  

 

I tried to find more cast B feel / movement but it wasn't really working out so I stopped focusing on it.  After a particularly bad round I decided it was time to get back to some basics so I watched NTC again.

 

Something jumped out at me from the get go.  In the backswing A instruction video at the 3 minute mark, @MonteScheinblum is showing wrist movements; particularly the flexion got my attention and for some reason I thought maybe I wasn't doing this enough.  

 

So to the range I went with focus on adding a little more flexion and get to 8:00 then cast A.  Bam!  All of the sudden, that cast B is happening without any focus because it's just unwinding the flexion.  Much better acceleration on line and accuracy.

 

So now that's into my "waggle", just a little reminder to get that flexion going.  Only two rounds of this change, but 7 birdies from being inside 5 feet and picked up some yards off the tee.

 

Feeling pretty good about this path.

[Fireballer]

Got an email for 30% off all videos,so gonna start from scratch tomorrow. Wish me luck.

[BasK]

Got that same email, and thought I could use it to purchase all the videos. I first purchased Use The Bounce 2 with the code, then thought I'd buy NTC as well, but that was a tad optimistic of me :D. Bought NTC anyway and watched all the videos. Just came back from my first range session. Some observations (hdcp 28):

 

The first cast was not that intuitive at first, because I think I had the tendency to overdo it. I took it as a hard throw of the angles, which didn't work for me (yet). If I did a more subtle wrist move in the right direction I found that I was in a much more comfortable position to do a hard, but smooth second cast. That one came natural after the first move and it made my club head speed much higher.

 

After this I started hooking my shots, whereas my normal shot pattern is (was) a fade. The longer the club the worse it got. Drivers went straight left at first. Probably because my shoulders were way too open. Someone more knowledgeable than me would no doubt be able to tell why I did this, I'm sure it's a compensation for another swing fault. I had to focus on having the feeling of keeping my shoulders more closed during the downswing, coupled with the wrist movement of cast 1 this would result in a nice in to out path. 

 

I got into a groove somewhere after this and hit some of my best long irons ever. My 5 irons were going about 190 yards, which is exceptional for me. I usually do not have enough swing speed to hit a useful 5 iron (24 degree loft). Even hit a couple of great 4 woods.

 

Driver wasn't great, if I managed to not hook it, it would go straight, but right. Distance was also not what it should be. But I've been banana slicing for months, so I can at least see some light at the end of the tunnel. I also did not yet incorporate the weight transfer in transition. This would throw me off and put too many swing thoughts in my head. 

 

All in all, a great first session, I am definitely going to keep practicing this. 

 

 

 

[Fireballer]

Wow.  I don't know why it took this long, but it finally clicked.  I had a flush of memories from every "chop straight down", "drop arms" "quickly straighten trail elbow" AHA moments I've had for the past 5 years.  

 

The intent I needed was in the 10th video.  Doing this move is the same as every AHA I've had, just a different feel.  I would get so focused on the "chop straight down" as the transition move, I was letting my wrist cup too soon.  This is why, in a video lesson with Monte last year, he said I had lost my wrist flex halfway down.  This is why I would lose my swing halfway through a range session, and start getting the pushes.  This move was right there in "The Efficient Swing" but I didn't pick up on how it applied to me.  So now, it's "chop down with flat wrist" and it's money. This causes the exact "cast to 8 oclock" I needed. This does the three magical things I've struggled with over the years...1) back to target longer 2) arms stay in front 3) face stays square.  Also, the big kicker is that an upper body intent has actually quieted my EE.  

 

Edited to add:  

The intent to cast from top with a flat lead wrist is making a huge difference.  I've tried the old "motorcycle move" in the past, but I've never had this much click together.  I've changed my set up a bit to.   Usually I set up with not much shaft lean, so It kinda felt like I was doing a DJ move to get the wrist flat.  Now I set up with a flatter wrist initially and it makes this move a little more natural feeling.  

Edited June 14, 2021 by Fireballer

[Xander Fan]

In NTC, Monte calls for a 90 degree angle at left arm parallel and a flat left wrist, but AFAICT that is impossible. At least without some radial deviation of the left wrist. Perhaps a 75% angle is achieved with a flat left wrist at left arm parallel.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[MonteScheinblum]

3 hours ago, Xander Fan said:

In NTC, Monte calls for a 90 degree angle at left arm parallel and a flat left wrist, but AFAICT that is impossible. At least without some radial deviation of the left wrist. Perhaps a 75% angle is achieved with a flat left wrist at left arm parallel.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Obviously there’s going to be some extension with a 3D sensor, but visually it will be close to neutral if done correctly.

 

 

[Xander Fan]

Thanks Monte. But is it better to keep that left wrist perfectly flat and have no extension and no radial deviation? I've done it, and it feels a little awkward and a little locked-up and a little laid off at the top, but it's doable. What's optimal?

[MonteScheinblum]

20 minutes ago, Xander Fan said:

Thanks Monte. But is it better to keep that left wrist perfectly flat and have no extension and no radial deviation? I've done it, and it feels a little awkward and a little locked-up and a little laid off at the top, but it's doable. What's optimal?

Optimal is getting a proper balance of radial and minimal extension 

[Xander Fan]

Thanks and so that proper balance of radial and minimal extension would be just enough radial deviation to get to the 90 degree angle?

[MonteScheinblum]

11 minutes ago, Xander Fan said:

Thanks and so that proper balance of radial and minimal extension would be just enough radial deviation to get to the 90 degree angle?

Or there abouts 

[Xander Fan]

14 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Or there abouts 

Great. Thank you very much!

[Xander Fan]

What would happen if from the perfect (hands at 8 o'clock) top of the backswing position, you just let the hands, arms and club drop (instead of casting)?

[MonteScheinblum]

22 minutes ago, Xander Fan said:

What would happen if from the perfect (hands at 8 o'clock) top of the backswing position, you just let the hands, arms and club drop (instead of casting)?

 

22 minutes ago, Xander Fan said:

What would happen if from the perfect (hands at 8 o'clock) top of the backswing position, you just let the hands, arms and club drop (instead of casting)?

A lot of people do that and it doesn’t end well.  Usually stall flip.  Hands/arms have to have some out and forward.  

[Xander Fan]

10 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

 

A lot of people do that and it doesn’t end well.  Usually stall flip.  Hands/arms have to have some out and forward.  

Thank you.

[PracticeSwinger]

Phil is definitely doing/practicing Cast A on the range live at Torrey...

[JetPilot]

Backswing question.....

 

When getting to the 7 o'clock position, should I feel like I'm simply placing the club there?  Then actively engaging a turn to 8 o'clock.  

 

 

[BigTerp1524]

1 hour ago, JetPilot said:

Backswing question.....

 

When getting to the 7 o'clock position, should I feel like I'm simply placing the club there?  Then actively engaging a turn to 8 o'clock.  

 

 

My feel for both 7 and 8 o'clock is the turn happens as a reaction to the hands getting there. You cannot get to either without rotating the shoulders and hips, but part of the concept of the NTC is to not actively turn but rather let it happen as a reaction to the hands/club getting to 7 and then 8.

[games]

4 hours ago, JetPilot said:

Backswing question.....

 

When getting to the 7 o'clock position, should I feel like I'm simply placing the club there?  Then actively engaging a turn to 8 o'clock.  

 

 

 

The turn to 7 should be achieved with little, if any, body turn.

The hand movement from 7 to 8 turns the body, and the lower body / pressure shift should react the way Monte's lower body reacts in the video.

 

[Shanker84]

I posted this in it's own thread and didn't get much traction so will try here. 

 

I'm having a problem doing cast A and B together but doing the A with a pause at the top (think Hidecki) and then B seems to work well and I'm actually hitting the ball straight for once. 

 

Is there a problem with doing this? It seems like there's some speed that's lost by not incorporating A with B but aside from that, is there anything functionally wrong with it? 

[rchang72]

Have you tried just cast A? Doing cast B for many is a reaction to doing cast A and then rotating? If you have difficulty incorporating, trying hitting your 8 iron only 90-100 yards with the cast A and B

[CasualLie]

59 minutes ago, Shanker84 said:

I posted this in it's own thread and didn't get much traction so will try here. 

 

I'm having a problem doing cast A and B together but doing the A with a pause at the top (think Hidecki) and then B seems to work well and I'm actually hitting the ball straight for once. 

 

Is there a problem with doing this? It seems like there's some speed that's lost by not incorporating A with B but aside from that, is there anything functionally wrong with it? 

 

Maybe not an issue doing this on the range at less than full speed to get sequencing / feels, but while playing, this is way too complicated and not possible anyways...

 

[Shanker84]

1 hour ago, CasualLie said:

 

Maybe not an issue doing this on the range at less than full speed to get sequencing / feels, but while playing, this is way too complicated and not possible anyways...

 

Why do you say it's not possible? So far it's been working well, the cast A is sort of the trigger for the downswing. All I really think is "throw and go" so there's a slight pause at the top, throw/Cast B and then pivot/B.  But to be fair, knowing me, I'm probably doing neither of them correctly. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Shanker84

[CasualLie]

31 minutes ago, Shanker84 said:

Why do you say it's not possible? So far it's been working well, the cast A is sort of the trigger for the downswing. All I really think is "throw and go" so there's a slight pause at the top, throw/Cast B and then pivot/B.  But to be fair, knowing me, I'm probably doing neither of them correctly. 

 

With that sequence, by the time you can tell yourself to do Cast B, the ball is gone.  If the shot works out, it is as a result of you doing something right much earlier.

 

I'm good with the get to the top and just tell yourself throw and go (so long as you get that bump left in first), then that's it....for now.  Over time, it has to get to one continuous flow, and you are passively feeling this "throw and go" or whatever cue, but not directing it.

 

The more you are making these sound like discreet parts and sequencing, the more that is good for practice.  Under pressure, it will fall apart.  Especially if you try to course correct based on ball flight while playing.

 

I started very similar to what you are doing, slightly different sequence or at least the description.  For starters, I could never get the feel of cast B in the middle of the swing that was repeatable.  So I don't think about it at all.  I make sure wrist is in proper place at 7:00, as I move to 8:00, then that little bump left keeping shoulders closed just a fraction to allow for the time to Cast A.  The sequence of the bump to Cast A is really quick, pretty much immeasurable in terms of mental calculation.  I want to feel that bump before anything, then cast A and fire through all in one motion too fast to think about anything else.

 

But all of what I am writing above is on the range and rehearsals.  And I add in other little drills or focal points.  At home, I am often doing hip turn work to make sure I can independently get right hip behind then left hip rotation to avoid any EE tendencies.

 

But when it is shot time in a round, my intent is to just observe, see if hands are getting back to 8...is it obvious that bump happened at the right time....where did I finish.  I want to be very passive and just the subconscious / body react.  Any self-directed moves are just in rehearsal in PSR.

 

 

[Shanker84]

14 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

 

With that sequence, by the time you can tell yourself to do Cast B, the ball is gone.  If the shot works out, it is as a result of you doing something right much earlier.

 

I'm good with the get to the top and just tell yourself throw and go (so long as you get that bump left in first), then that's it....for now.  Over time, it has to get to one continuous flow, and you are passively feeling this "throw and go" or whatever cue, but not directing it.

 

The more you are making these sound like discreet parts and sequencing, the more that is good for practice.  Under pressure, it will fall apart.  Especially if you try to course correct based on ball flight while playing.

 

I started very similar to what you are doing, slightly different sequence or at least the description.  For starters, I could never get the feel of cast B in the middle of the swing that was repeatable.  So I don't think about it at all.  I make sure wrist is in proper place at 7:00, as I move to 8:00, then that little bump left keeping shoulders closed just a fraction to allow for the time to Cast A.  The sequence of the bump to Cast A is really quick, pretty much immeasurable in terms of mental calculation.  I want to feel that bump before anything, then cast A and fire through all in one motion too fast to think about anything else.

 

But all of what I am writing above is on the range and rehearsals.  And I add in other little drills or focal points.  At home, I am often doing hip turn work to make sure I can independently get right hip behind then left hip rotation to avoid any EE tendencies.

 

But when it is shot time in a round, my intent is to just observe, see if hands are getting back to 8...is it obvious that bump happened at the right time....where did I finish.  I want to be very passive and just the subconscious / body react.  Any self-directed moves are just in rehearsal in PSR.

 

 

Appreciate it. I guess as I think about it Cast B isn’t really something I focus on as much as it’s just everything goes through the ball, pivot/B, everything.  The pause at the top helps as I’m a die hard handle puller/super steep and rushing the transition. That brief pause helps. 

[CasualLie]

32 minutes ago, Shanker84 said:

Appreciate it. I guess as I think about it Cast B isn’t really something I focus on as much as it’s just everything goes through the ball, pivot/B, everything.  The pause at the top helps as I’m a die hard handle puller/super steep and rushing the transition. That brief pause helps. 

 

You sound like you are on the right track, so keep working at it.  Yes, anything to get rid of the steeps!

 

It's a long journey.  It's taken 6 months for me to finally feel this more automatic while playing under pressure.  Still a long way to go, but finally seeing the signs as my GIRs and birdies has gone up significantly this month.

 

[Xander Fan]

Out on the course, is there a pause between getting the hands from 7 o'clock to 8 o'clock or is it one continuous motion?

[rchang72]

It should be one fluid motion on the course. Use the range to do those steps. My best success is when I only have one key thought in preshot (right now is the left shift) then focus on target and desired ball flight from address on  

[MonteScheinblum]

It’s been hinted.  All of these motions are happening either immediately after one another, or simultaneously.

 

You’re not supposed to have multiple thoughts and forced motions.  The object is to pick up where you start going wrong and get that one move right and hope the rest fall in line.  If they don’t, again, pick up where you start to go wrong.

 

You CAN NOT work on cast A and B at the same time.

 

If you have a short backswing and a restricted hip turn, you shouldn’t be working on the no turn backswing.

 

Etc.

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by MonteScheinblum