Skins game withdrawal question

[tyorke1]

Your in a tourney that is having a skins game

 u play 12 holes but then have an injury 

 you need to withdraw

 should the first 12 holes count in the skins game

 

[MtlJeff]

2 minutes ago, tyorke1 said:

Your in a tourney that is having a skins game

 u play 12 holes but then have an injury 

 you need to withdraw

 should the first 12 holes count in the skins game

 

 

To me yes because in a skins each hole is a completed hole. And skins is not an aggregate game. So for the purposes of the skins I'd allow it

 

But I could see the other side too...just saying what I'd do if I was running it

[golfandfishing]

Yup. 

[tyorke1]

Are there any official rules regarding skins 

[cardoustie]

You getting the wrong end of the stick Tim?

[tyorke1]

Yes cards

 birdied a hole with a crazy flag

 hit a low heel on the next and pop.  Popped an elbow

 could not hold a club on the second shot. Had to with draw . Gm said you have to post a score

 thought nothing of it but when I did I remember skins is based on individual holes. What difference does score matter

 I was playing well at the time of the injury . Home with ice getting it checked tomorrow  not feeling too good. 

[mizuno player]

Yes it should count. Unless, there is a written rule saying all holes must be played. 

 

My old club we had a club skins game every weekend. You could X on 17 holes and win a skin on the one hole you finished. 

[nsxguy]

Something in the water lately.

 

Another guy makes a hole-in-one in a club event and his club won't pay him the pool ?

 

You make a skin and can't continue and they won't pay you ? The hole was over. You gave them a break by not playing the last 6.

 

My scramble group on Saturdays, if there's a 3-man team, wants to let each of the 3 guys on the team rotate replacing the 4th player ? 

 

Geeeeez, what's going on lately ?!?!?!

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by nsxguy

[2bGood]

No "rules" for skins exist in the ROG.

 

We do have a rule that for hole in one to be valid you have to post a 9 or 18 hole score. Ie you make a HOI on 6, you better finish 9 to get your HIO awarded. The rational is a HIO has to occur during a proper round of golf. Practicing out on the course does not count.

 

I can see a good point for skins be payed out if you did not finish the round (a hole by hole bet). I can also see a good argument for a requirement that you complete the round and it is odd to award a prize to a player that is DQ'd or WD. So I would say it is up to the tournament committee to make the call if they were not already explicit on the rule sheet.

 

Warning: the following rational is a bit of stretch but... I suppose a person could make an argument that allowing a prize for only playing part of the round could give a player an unfair advantage. If your goal is to only win skins you would approach the round differently than playing the entire 18. You could also argue that failing to complete the round messes up the skins competition for everyone as you may have pushed or won skins on the holes not played, changing the number of skins awarded - meaning it make more sense to take you out of the running on all 18 holes.

 

At any rate in my view this is the TC's call. In a practical way I would allow it as it is a 'junk' competition like long drives and KP's, and if you disallowed skins for unfinished rounds you would have to not allow LD's and KP's and not allowing LD's and KP's could not be done as players that follow don't record their KP and LD's if they have not beat what was already recorded, so you would not truly know who the runner up was. 

 

 

 

 

[oikos1]

As long as everyone tossed in the same amount at the start of the round, all skins should be paid out at the end of the round.  What did the GM want you to do, play the last six holes and bunt a ball off of each tee with a putter just so you could "post" and get paid the skin you earned?  Was GM playing in the group and needed gas money for his miata? 

 

Accordingly, when withdrawing, any bets where other players have lost money and wouldn't have a chance to win it back over the course of the rest of the round should be invalid, any bets owed at the point of withdrawal should be paid out (i.e. nassaus, presses, etc.).

[cardoustie]

Fight them tooth and nail, you are owed cash

you could’ve sat in a cart last 6 holes and put down x’s, pro/GM is being a DB 

[caniac6]

If the skins don't count, you should get your money back. 

[Sawgrass]

While the rules of golf don't cover this side betting issue, the company running the Golf Genius app collaborates with the USGA.  In this app, if a skins game is present and a player withdraws during the round, his/her scores are eliminated from the skins game aspect of play.

[SNIPERBBB]

11 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

My scramble group on Saturdays, if there's a 3-man team, wants to let each of the 3 guys on the team rotate replacing the 4th player ? 

 

Geeeeez, what's going on lately ?!?!?!

 

Standard practice around here is to rotate the ,4th shot. Does work out for a team with decent players s pretty well as they're getting a free mulligan

[nsxguy]

22 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Standard practice around here is to rotate the ,4th shot. Does work out for a team with decent players s pretty well as they're getting a free mulligan

 

Makes no sense unless all of the players are roughly equal. We have a wide variety of handicaps (and ages) so we have A, B, C, & D players.

 

Rotating the 4th shot on EVERY shot equates to giving the 3-man team, for their "D" player, 1/3 of an "A", 1/3 of a "B", and 1/3 of a "C". What kind of sense does that make ? One of our "A" players, since we were in a rush this past Saturday, "volunteered" to be a 3-man team and ran to the first tee.

 

Up north, and even with this group when I first started playing with them about 2 years ago, all the 3-man team got was an extra putt that would be rotated amongst the 3 players. That made sense since the "D" player on most teams almost never came into play until they got on the green.

Edited August 25, 2020 by nsxguy

[llewol007]

It is up to how the skins are set up. You will have hole by hole skins meaning greenies, sandies, closest to the pins. That should stand if the players wins the skin on a particular hole. For net and gross scores, the player would not be able to compete since he did not complete the round. 

[Mudguard]

15 hours ago, 2bGood said:

 

 

Warning: the following rational is a bit of stretch but... I suppose a person could make an argument that allowing a prize for only playing part of the round could give a player an unfair advantage. If your goal is to only win skins you would approach the round differently than playing the entire 18. You could also argue that failing to complete the round messes up the skins competition for everyone as you may have pushed or won skins on the holes not played, changing the number of skins awarded - meaning it make more sense to take you out of the running on all 18 holes.

 

 

 

 

 

That's probably why we don't play skins, it's a little like matchplay, you treat a slippery 10 footer for a half a bit differently than you do if it's for your par in medal/stableford. I'd view skins as a one hole at a time thing. If someone has to pull out then what does it matter? Essentially skins is 18 individual matches. 

[Mudguard]

16 hours ago, nsxguy said:

Something in the water lately.

My scramble group on Saturdays, if there's a 3-man team, wants to let each of the 3 guys on the team rotate replacing the 4th player ? 

 

 

Tough bikkies. If an ambrose/scamble team can't get four, then they pay the price. Three shots only, but their handicap might get divided by six instead of eight etc. 

[Augster]

It should count. It’s up to each individual committee, as there are no hard and fast rules, but it should pay out. 
 

Skins are just a giant match between all players every hole. In match play you can pick up at any time and concede the hole. That’s all a WD does. 
 

I WD’d 2 weeks ago on the 16th hole. I got paid for my birdie on 11. That was nice. 
 

What I DIDN’T know, and I’ll ask here instead of a new thread, what if a player plays 15 holes, picks up and WDs on 16, can the player still play 17 and 18 to try to win skins? This is during a tournament. Does the player get to “play along” the last 2 holes, or is that too much BS for the other 3 players that are still in the tourney? 
 

Thanks. 

[ArtMBgolf]

On 8/25/2020 at 8:07 PM, Augster said:

I WD’d 2 weeks ago on the 16th hole. I got paid for my birdie on 11. That was nice. 
 

What I DIDN’T know, and I’ll ask here instead of a new thread, what if a player plays 15 holes, picks up and WDs on 16, can the player still play 17 and 18 to try to win skins? This is during a tournament. Does the player get to “play along” the last 2 holes, or is that too much BS for the other 3 players that are still in the tourney? 

If they paid you for bird on #11, you should still be able to compete for skins on 17 + 18.    The X just means WD from low net, low gross. 
When a partner X's,  he still plays the remaining holes.      

[ArtMBgolf]

On 8/25/2020 at 12:12 AM, nsxguy said:

My scramble group on Saturdays, if there's a 3-man team, wants to let each of the 3 guys on the team rotate replacing the 4th player ?

 
My club allows a 3 man scramble group, because you don't want them not to play due to a no show. 
We play ABCD on a team, so only players with a higher Hdc, than the missing player, can hit the extra shots.  You don't want the ABC players having a turn for a missing D player.     If B is missing, only C + D hit extra shots.   If A is missing , they don't have much chance, but at least they are playing.   If D is missing, the others get a 4th putt, no extra shots.  

[Mudguard]

2 hours ago, ArtMBgolf said:

 
My club allows a 3 man scramble group, because you don't want them not to play due to a no show. 
We play ABCD on a team, so only players with a higher Hdc, than the missing player, can hit the extra shots.  You don't want the ABC players having a turn for a missing D player.     If B is missing, only C + D hit extra shots.   If A is missing , they don't have much chance, but at least they are playing.   If D is missing, the others get a 4th putt, no extra shots.  

I think they should just play as three person team. It's not the rest of the field's fault they couldn't come up with four players?

[nsxguy]

8 hours ago, Mudguard said:

I think they should just play as three person team. It's not the rest of the field's fault they couldn't come up with four players?

 

I can't speak for Art's group of course but our group just shows up on Saturday. We never have any idea of how many guys are coming.

 

So there's a 3 in 4 chance that there will be at least 1 3-man team. They should be punished because of that ? At best the "extra" putt is a bit less of a disadvantage to the 3-man team.

 

And if it's a more "formal" tournament with early entries, each 4-man team, structured however they want showing up to play, that's a different story but even then I don't seen an extra putt as being an advantage over the 4-man teams. That missing 4th man could have hit quite a few shots to set up the other 3 - they don't get that.

[Mudguard]

4 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

I can't speak for Art's group of course but our group just shows up on Saturday. We never have any idea of how many guys are coming.

 

So there's a 3 in 4 chance that there will be at least 1 3-man team. They should be punished because of that ? At best the "extra" putt is a bit less of a disadvantage to the 3-man team.

 

And if it's a more "formal" tournament with early entries, each 4-man team, structured however they want showing up to play, that's a different story but even then I don't seen an extra putt as being an advantage over the 4-man teams. That missing 4th man could have hit quite a few shots to set up the other 3 - they don't get that.

An ambrose/scramble is a much more rare event for us. Maybe once or twice a year as some kind of fund raiser or the first Saturday after cored greens. But I still think you just get the players you get, divide the handicaps by six instead of eight. 

[nsxguy]

3 hours ago, Mudguard said:

An ambrose/scramble is a much more rare event for us. Maybe once or twice a year as some kind of fund raiser or the first Saturday after cored greens. But I still think you just get the players you get, divide the handicaps by six instead of eight. 

 

Ahhhhhh, sorry, forgot about that. No handicaps.

 

Only played in a handicapped scramble once, a 2-man event. The handicapping seemed really weird but it worked out. About 5 or 6 of the teams that finished well finished very close.

[Aaronwilson_95]

On 8/25/2020 at 5:11 PM, Mudguard said:

That's probably why we don't play skins, it's a little like matchplay, you treat a slippery 10 footer for a half a bit differently than you do if it's for your par in medal/stableford. I'd view skins as a one hole at a time thing. If someone has to pull out then what does it matter? Essentially skins is 18 individual matches. 

That’s why at my club we always play our carts matches amongst the big game which takes precedent over small matches . Not gonna bang that 10 footer for the half way pst as it could cost you points.

[2bGood]

23 hours ago, ArtMBgolf said:

 
My club allows a 3 man scramble group, because you don't want them not to play due to a no show. 
We play ABCD on a team, so only players with a higher Hdc, than the missing player, can hit the extra shots.  You don't want the ABC players having a turn for a missing D player.     If B is missing, only C + D hit extra shots.   If A is missing , they don't have much chance, but at least they are playing.   If D is missing, the others get a 4th putt, no extra shots.  

 

We never play Scramble events at the club, but we will play 4 team best ball formats (Ie count 2 best nets on each hole, or count 4 on 3, 3 on 4's, 2 on 5's etc). We use a Phantom ball if a guy is missing. The Phantom ball is random player from another team. It not great to be in the threesome as you have no clue how your team is doing until it is over. 

[LeoLeo99]

If you drop out early for the skins that you won, you should get paid.  You should also have to pay into the pot for the holes you missed.  Posting a score is a weird requirement.  If we're on a par 3 and 3 of us knock it to 10 feet and the 4th guy puts two in the water, we don't make him finish the hole.  He can pick pick up.  Never heard of making people finish a hole in skins.  We pick up all the time in skins.  A guy is in for birdie, it's fine to pick up your par putt and head to the next tee.  

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, LeoLeo99 said:

If you drop out early for the skins that you won, you should get paid.  You should also have to pay into the pot for the holes you missed.  Posting a score is a weird requirement.  If we're on a par 3 and 3 of us knock it to 10 feet and the 4th guy puts two in the water, we don't make him finish the hole.  He can pick pick up.  Never heard of making people finish a hole in skins.  We pick up all the time in skins.  A guy is in for birdie, it's fine to pick up your par putt and head to the next tee.  

 

You're playing your own ball by the Rules of Golf and trying to make the best score.

 

There's always "Most likely score". Or Net Double Bogey.

 

Having said that I wonder what the ruling bodies would say about someone's handicap who ONLY, or at least a large portion of the time, plays skins games,,,,,,,,,,,, Hmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,,,

[LeoLeo99]

5 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

You're playing your own ball by the Rules of Golf and trying to make the best score.

 

There's always "Most likely score". Or Net Double Bogey.

 

Having said that I wonder what the ruling bodies would say about someone's handicap who ONLY, or at least a large portion of the time, plays skins games,,,,,,,,,,,, Hmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,,,

 

It's just like match play.  Your opponent is in for birdie, you don't need to finish the hole if you can't at least tie.  What you write down for handicap purposes is another discussion.  I know what I played match play in high school, we all wrote down par if our opponent made birdie.