Pros...blades for irons, but lots of mallets for putters! Hmmm

[Juice1121]

I have played Mallet style putter over the past few years. Tried to devolve putting into the: See line, Line up ball, line up mallet, make mechanical swing onto the line, hope speed and line matches up. However, I feel like putting is much more feel based than we may like to admit. Bladed putters give me more feel and fluidity, they help control speed better on long putts. I will admit that I would probably be back to a mallet if I had millions of dollars on the line though. The MOI and Forgiveness of the mallet style putters are great. 

[NRJyzr]

25 minutes ago, COL_B said:

The dimension besides "straight" on the right line hitting it with the right speed. The bigger the mallet, the (generally) tougher to control speed.

 

That's the problem I've had with mallets.  My speed control deteriorates, and given a long enough time spent with the mallet, it gets shockingly poor.

[Justapitchandaputt]

Blade putters won't exist in 10-15 years time. 

 

Go look back at any Masters tournament in the 90s. Many blades with a few mallets. Now its flipped. 

 

Pros are seeing the advantage of forgiveness. 

 

Anser style putters will go the way of the bullseye

[mahonie]

9 hours ago, Juice1121 said:

I have played Mallet style putter over the past few years. Tried to devolve putting into the: See line, Line up ball, line up mallet, make mechanical swing onto the line, hope speed and line matches up. However, I feel like putting is much more feel based than we may like to admit. Bladed putters give me more feel and fluidity, they help control speed better on long putts. I will admit that I would probably be back to a mallet if I had millions of dollars on the line though. The MOI and Forgiveness of the mallet style putters are great. 

 

I spent 18 months logging the data for 9 (!) different putters that I had in rotation. I went from 8802-style blades, through Ansers to full mallets. I had a pretty good data set across the piece and my conclusions pretty much tie up with your comments. From 6 feet in I felt like I couldn’t miss with a mallet but I had lots of 6 feet second putts because judgement of speed was somewhat lacking. 8802-style putters were great for longer putts and I holed far more with that type of putter but really struggled on the 3-footers (they all went left). Anser-style putters were somewhere in-between and I decided that was the best compromise. Then I found the Radius that’s been in my bag for the last 2 years. A slightly heavier 8802-style blade that seems to have fixed the short putt problem.

 

One thing to note on mallets with lots of alignment aids is to check that everything lines through. The Rife mallet I had used to miss lots of short putts to the right. I thought it was down to my dodgy stroke but when a putter fitter looked at it he noticed (by eye) that it was set open. He checked it on his equipment and sure enough the head was open 1 degree relative to the grip. How he spotted 1 degree by eye I will never know.

[bodhi555]

11 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

That's the problem I've had with mallets.  My speed control deteriorates, and given a long enough time spent with the mallet, it gets shockingly poor.

 

I found this with a mallet - great for short putts where speed is less of a factor, but they screw my lag putting up something chronic.

 

I've settled on the Mid Mallet design now - a la Odyssey #9 or Del Mar. Easy to line up on short putts, but much better feel than a full mallet on longer puts - best of both worlds imo. 

 

In fact I'm a little baffled as to why this design isn't more popular on Tour. I know Mickelson has used one extensively, and Rory used to before he moved to TM, not seeing many others out there though.

[Nard_S]

Play blades and use a mallet.

 

Sorry, for the most part, Pro's do not use off the shelf CB's, they just don't.

 

Find Ansers' function over form design to be distracting so been using a mallet for decades. 8802 style is clear best on distance control, large mallets absolute worst.

Use a small mallet (Kevin Burns) that has a "T" sight line that gives me best of both. Great visual alignment & distance control. It's light enough to reinforce an accelerating stroke. To my mind, the problem with heavy mallets is they promote a decelerating  impact hit.

[gators78]

Full caveat I want to use a mallet and like the look of a lot of the designs, but a 25+ foot putt on fast greens with some break, and I am absolutely atrocious putting with one. I truly don't understand how it's become so popular with Tour players on super fast greens, unless they're offsetting longer feel for more stability on 5-15 footers. The combination of heavy head + super high MOI (+ and, until recently, Superstroke grips) and I can blast it offline with the best of them. 

 

Edit: I'm average at best at putting and after a David Orr interview I went the other way, changed the weights in the SC to a 310g head, 35", Ping PP58 grip, which I think are almost the exact specs of the original Anser design. Still average, but hey we'll keep digging. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by gators78

[North Butte]

A few years into my golf-playing life I became obsessed with "straight back, straight through" putting. Now in reality, my natural putting stroke had always featured pretty minimal opening and closing of the face. No hand manipulation, eyes straight over the ball, no fanning the club open or closed. But instead of an Anser style putter I wanted big, fat grips, a mallet or wide flange design with a prominent alignment aid and on short putts I wanted to point that alignment line at the hole and keep it pointed through by making a very slow and careful stroke.

 

I'm pretty sure it did make me absolutely deadly on 2, 3, 4 footers. I could go half a dozen rounds between misses from 3 feet and in. But that manipulated "keep the line aimed at the target" stroke fell apart when the stroke got more than a few inches long. So I had this awkward transition from a mechanical, guided, "perfect" stroke on short putts to a longer stroke where it wasn't possible to square the club up throughout. During that period I very rarely made anything outside of 6-8 feet. And on very long lag putts or putts from the fringe, I was not exactly automatic at getting the ball inside my 3-foot comfort zone.

 

So now I'm several years into returning to my putting roots, so to speak. I use a plain-vanilla Ping Anser with no alignment markings. I still get my eyes over the ball, my stroke still doesn't open or close the clubface as much as some people but I am not trying to force an alignment between some mark on the club and the starting line of the putt. I spend all my attention looking at the path and break of the putt, then looking at the hole. As soon as my eyes return to the ball the stroke has already started. I rely on my body to start the ball on the intended line rather than trying to steer the putter.

 

I do get a bit yippy over the real short ones from time to time. But I doubt that a more contrived setup and stroke would make that any better, it's just a nervous habit. But I make as many 10 or 20 foot putts as any double-digit handicapper you'll see. And most days my distance control on very long putts is exquisite, leaving a lot of 6-inch tap-ins on 40-footers and such.

 

I keep stats on my game and my long-term average (back when I was using fat grips and alignment-line mallets) was about 2.8 strokes worse than a scratch golfer. Today with a more freed up approach to putting I average right around 1.5 strokes worse than scratch. I know a single stroke saved isn't a big deal but it's a way of putting that feels better, gives me a better chance at making the occasional long one and what the heck it saves about a stroke a round which isn't nothing!

[lefty99]

On 8/30/2020 at 7:58 PM, bombs said:

Blades when struck well are the most predictable in terms of carry consistency and workability. 

 

 

 

This makes the most sense regarding blades discussions.

 

[Vater]

I've played an Odyssey blade and now a TM mallet. I get look preferences, etc. But to me, it's just physics. Getting the ball aligned and rolling is easier for most humans with a mallet. It's almost like if you're using a blade, you're just able to overcome the "inefficiencies" of using a blade.

 

(I am now destined to go off and buy a Newport.)

[manima1]

Going to the TM Spider Tour X with the slant neck has been a game changer for me.  For years I struggled to make a face balanced mallet work and I was just so inconsistent.  Now I understand why - that straight back straight through method just isn't realistic for putts of all distances.  

 

The Spider Tour X allows for my natural putting stroke to work and is unbelievable forgiving.  Distance control is excellent as this putter still has great feel and responsiveness.  Best putter I've ever owned and by a wide margin.

[Juice1121]

To preface, I have always been a decent putter, but have lacked some punch around the greens (which I half attribute to not realizing I needed glasses earlier). I feel like the answer is different for each individual depending on skill level, but you might be surprised by who needs what.

 

Take me for example. I have hovered between 3-8 hdcp over the past 5 years. I went and looked at some of my putting stats since gaming a blade. The past 48 holes I don't have a single 3 putt, that even includes some atrocious sanded and aerated greens. I attribute that mostly to being able to control distances. If you are really honest with your stats, you would see your proximity to hole is not anywhere near tour caliber. The tour average is 36'. Now I have looked at my stats, I have considerable more putts from over 25 ft vs under 12 ft. That means I should be putting more importance on whatever club gets me the best chance to get down in two as any putt over 12 ft for me drops from 35% to 15% and even lower past 20ft. 9/10 that is a club that has better distance control. I should be using a putter that allows me to get close to the desired line but has more importance on having the best control over my distances. From my experience, and others on this forum, that would be a blade.

 

Now, if I was better or worse, you could throw all that out of the window. I will give 2 examples:

If I was better, I would find myself landing within 15ft much more often. If I was that close, I would want to be standing over a mallet as it gives me the best chance to get the ball rolling on the desired line. Now, assume I was a professional and was even better than that. Add the pressure of potentially thousands let alone millions of dollars swinging in the balance between me canning a 5-7 footer then you better believe the mallet is the right call. It gets the putt on line better, it also gives more forgiveness when missing the center. 

 

As another example would be If I was a worse golfer. Say, I was in the 15-25 rage. My proximity would be way closer to 50+ ft. That means I am missing greens often and forcing myself to get up and down. Typically that leaves you with closer putts. I could look at my stats and find that I was left with multiple 5-12 footers from chipping on and trying to save par. If that were the case, I would also want a mallet.

 

Moral of the story, Statistics and tendencies are key. if you don't understand them you may be assuming something is best for you when in reality it isn't. 

[forrester_fire]

On 8/30/2020 at 7:52 PM, Mudguard said:

 

Do the pros actually play blades more than cavities? What are the numbers?

 

His point is that the Pros aren't playing big, game improvement shovels.

[tgoodspe1991]

Putting is an entirely different game than the full swing. It's all about alignment and distance control and rolling the ball end over end as straight as possible. It doesn't matter what the other 13 clubs in the bag are.

[RainShadow]

Well, the object of the game is to get the ball in the hole, and odd's are you'll be making the stroke that does it with a  putter.

Guy's playing for big $$ play whatever helps them a bit, hence the higher MOI mallet putters. Get one that matches the stroke ( toe hang) and chances are they'll make more putts, or at the very least get the ball on line with a bit of forgiveness speed wise on slight miss hits.

[npintooo12]

On 9/1/2020 at 5:46 AM, bodhi555 said:

 

I found this with a mallet - great for short putts where speed is less of a factor, but they screw my lag putting up something chronic.

 

I've settled on the Mid Mallet design now - a la Odyssey #9 or Del Mar. Easy to line up on short putts, but much better feel than a full mallet on longer puts - best of both worlds imo. 

 

In fact I'm a little baffled as to why this design isn't more popular on Tour. I know Mickelson has used one extensively, and Rory used to before he moved to TM, not seeing many others out there though.

I went back to my PING Karsten Anser style putter recently because I had the same findings with my Spider Tour regarding speed.  I think the mid mallet is a good option, I have always liked the looks and concept of the Scotty Cameron Squareback and Fastback models.

[carrier street]

I don’t think it’s about forgiveness. I do think it’s about ease of alignment.

[North Butte]

It's funny how the best golfers in the world feel confident rearing back and making a huge swing with a 4-iron, believing that the clubface will square up so perfectly they can be within a few yards left or right of a flag 240 yards away. But have them aim a putter and make a tiny little stroke toward a hole just a few feet away and they think they need a line on the ball and several other lines on the putter in order to roll it in the right direction.

 

Golf's so mental at that level. 

[kstrong84]

This shouldn't even be a debate....to be a top player in the world you must be able to work the ball left and right from good and crappy lies, which blade irons excel at....putting requires maximum consistency and repeatability off the club face, hence mallet putters.  Let's get real people!

[North Butte]

6 hours ago, kstrong84 said:

This shouldn't even be a debate....to be a top player in the world you must be able to work the ball left and right from good and crappy lies, which blade irons excel at....putting requires maximum consistency and repeatability off the club face, hence mallet putters.  Let's get real people!

That would imply Tiger Woods doesn't have maximum consistency and repeatability with his putter? How about Jordan Spieth? Or the approximately eleventy zillion other top players who have used something beside mallet putters? 

 

And let's don't even talk about Phil Mickelson and Ben Crenshaw and the others who have used dinky little heel shafted true blade putters...

[Mudguard]

11 hours ago, North Butte said:

It's funny how the best golfers in the world feel confident rearing back and making a huge swing with a 4-iron, believing that the clubface will square up so perfectly they can be within a few yards left or right of a flag 240 yards away. But have them aim a putter and make a tiny little stroke toward a hole just a few feet away and they think they need a line on the ball and several other lines on the putter in order to roll it in the right direction.

 

Golf's so mental at that level. 

Surely that just comes down to being able to lift the ball on the green. If we're playing placing in winter I always point the line in the general direction when I put it back down. If you couldn't mark your ball on the green I'd guarantee no one would bother with alignment lines. 

[Mudguard]

20 hours ago, forrester_fire said:

 

His point is that the Pros aren't playing big, game improvement shovels.

Well an AP2 might be a shovel for someone used to Miura Baby Blades? And obviously you're not necessarily going to see a pro using a 38 degree pitching wedge, they hit it hard enough and don't generally have a problem with getting the ball in the air. 

The premise was pros using blades and mallets. I wanted to know how many actually use blades now. 

[dog flog]

With due respect to my putt stubbing, sky marking brethren, there's no reason not to go big-headed in clubs that have no turf interaction.

[North Butte]

28 minutes ago, dog flog said:

With due respect to my putt stubbing, sky marking brethren, there's no reason not to go big-headed in clubs that have no turf interaction.

I wouldn't necessarily mind a mallet with a larger head than my Anser putters. But only if it were one without ginormous straight lines painted on the top.

 

The last thing I need is something trying to attract my visual attention away from the path on which I'm trying to roll the ball. Can't stand alignment marks or putters whose shape is meant to act like a big arrow pointing toward the hole. 

 

It's almost impossible (for me, with admittedly poor concentration and focus at times) not to try and aim the alignment mark toward the target line rather than aligning the putter face behind the ball perpendicular to the target line. But I know from unfortunate experience that my aim will be off. For whatever reason, there's a disconnect between that visual alignment and the direction the ball will actually roll. 

 

Judging from the number of people I've played with who never, ever use a putter with a prominent alignment aid and/or an alignment mark on the ball I think I'm not alone in preferring to aim a putter just like I'd aim any other club. Of course a few people use drivers, fairway woods or hybrids with a straight line on the crown but that never really took off and became popular.

[Fairways_and_Greens]

There isn't much magic when it comes to golf. Its work and repetition. Many times Tiger has said his putting isn't what it used to be because he hasn't put in the hours that he used to on the practice green because of his back.

 

The guys playing blades on tour are generally the better ball strikers. They are the 30% of the 0.001%. They got there by hitting crazy amounts of irons and drivers. Practice time is a zero sum game, and that means they aren't practicing on the green. The mallets may offer some forgiveness for this disparity in practice proportions.

 

But just as likely, the mallets just suit their eyes or strokes. Brian Harman is a SGP perennial top 10 and uses a mallet... I doubt most the guys pick up putters of the rack. They getting fit on a Quintec and the mallet gives them a better, more consistent roll.

 

[dog flog]

On 9/3/2020 at 7:30 AM, North Butte said:

The last thing I need is something trying to attract my visual attention away from the path on which I'm trying to roll the ball. Can't stand alignment marks or putters whose shape is meant to act like a big arrow pointing toward the hole. 

Believe it or not, the white alignment stripe on my Ketsch is a repulsor beam that strikes ball with just enough energy to propel it to the dead center of the hole.

[pinestreetgolf]

Let's actually look at the numbers...

 

Anywhere from 25-35% of bags in a given event have blades per golfweek.  So it isn't a "majority" (most replies seem to be ignoring this).  Inside the top 50 iron players, blades have almost zero representation.  Similarly, blades are played by virtually nobody on tour under age 28.

 

In terms of putters on tour, the VAST majority prefer mallet putters.  In the top 10 putters on tour, only one (Patrick Reed at #3 with his Cameron) uses a blade* and doesn't get much better expanding to the top 20, adding only Bubba Watson and Rein Gibson (3/20).

 

So, in a massive, huge, unexpected surprise, cavity back irons and mallet putters are the choice of the best of the best.  You can wax poetic about turf interaction and consistent speed all you want, the guys making the decisions about what to game have overwhelmingly decided to use small cavity back irons and mallet putters.  Its not close, guys.  It hasn't been close since 2016.  This isn't a debatable topic.  You can just WITB them and then look at the rank.

 

Please stop saying general nonsense like "the majority of tour pros play blades" when it is demonstrably false.

 

*If you count an arm-lock putter with a blade head as a "blade", the list gets longer but is still about a quarter.  You do get a few near the top, though (Kuchar, Bryson are both top 20).

 

[Floyd12]

1 hour ago, pinestreetgolf said:

Let's actually look at the numbers...

 

Anywhere from 25-35% of bags in a given event have blades per golfweek.  So it isn't a "majority" (most replies seem to be ignoring this).  Inside the top 50 iron players, blades have almost zero representation.  Similarly, blades are played by virtually nobody on tour under age 28.

 

In terms of putters on tour, the VAST majority prefer mallet putters.  In the top 10 putters on tour, only one (Patrick Reed at #3 with his Cameron) uses a blade* and doesn't get much better expanding to the top 20, adding only Bubba Watson and Rein Gibson (3/20).

 

So, in a massive, huge, unexpected surprise, cavity back irons and mallet putters are the choice of the best of the best.  You can wax poetic about turf interaction and consistent speed all you want, the guys making the decisions about what to game have overwhelmingly decided to use small cavity back irons and mallet putters.  Its not close, guys.  It hasn't been close since 2016.  This isn't a debatable topic.  You can just WITB them and then look at the rank.

 

Please stop saying general nonsense like "the majority of tour pros play blades" when it is demonstrably false.

 

*If you count an arm-lock putter with a blade head as a "blade", the list gets longer but is still about a quarter.  You do get a few near the top, though (Kuchar, Bryson are both top 20).

 

Not as black and white as you try to make it. You discredit turf interaction, but then completely ignore that the "cavities" those guys are playing are nothing close to the retail cavities in our bags. 

 

They all have custom designed shapes, weight placement, and grinds to improve said turf interaction that you quickly dismissed. Also gets them very close if not identical to the performance of a blade. Win win for the manufacturer, as those cavities with similar looks that they throw on the shelf at golf galaxy sell like crazy because it appears some pros might play it.

 

Your take on this is the equivalent of a nascar fan thinking those guys are all driving malibus because of the paint on the front of the car. Don't fall for the marketing BS. Callaway has what, 13 different mavericks on the confirming list? 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Floyd12

[JDCON]

Are there any pros who use big cavity backs in the way Colin Montgomerie used those Big Bertha irons? 

[Nard_S]

 Spieth does not play standard AP whatever, Bubba never played standard G whatever, Molinari did not win The Open with off the shelf Apex MB. Btw, you can buy those for nearly twice the price of standard Callaway MB's. I do own two sets of tour issue heads, one from a Masters winner, one from a PGA card carrier, not the same There are very few heads that were available retail that matched tour issue specs. Big Bear played standard heads but there was an extra 30 grams of lead and hickory in the shaft. Tiger will reveal all spec excepts what how much tungsten is in his heads. If the T stamp is any indication, it's something other than TM offers to public. So just get over this stupid notion that it matters what type of club a tour pro plays, 99% of the time it is nowhere near what you play.