99% of all posts in this thread are related to mechanics. Where is the talk about the mental game?

[Wormkiller]

Why isn't anyone getting better with this mechanical focus that pervades learning this sport? Why has there been thousands of books written about the mechanics of the swing, thousands of studies done, technology advancements yet handicaps have increased over the last 50 years?

 

Why isn't there such an intense focus on mechanics for throwing a baseball pitch? Hitting a baseball? Kicking a soccer ball? Hitting a cover drive in cricket? Bowling in cricket? Pole vault? Archery? Any other sport?

 

What impact has the marketing of equipment and coaching had in this respect?  

Edited September 23, 2020 by Wormkiller

[Hawkeye77]

@PepsiDuck@2bGood have mental game threads just below yours, a couple more just on the first page.  @Obeehas a good one on the second page.  We've had some great threads on how to play tournaments, PSRs, you name it.

 

I don't think there have been thousands of books or thousands of studies on mechanics, but there have been a lot relative to the mental game.

 

Rotella hasn't made a living, in part, talking and writing about the mental aspects of golf because nobody is interested.  His books sell.  Others as well.  Having said that, are there a lot of singular books on the mental game?  I read them and a lot of them kind of just put a different twist (or not) on the same old stuff.  I think The Practice Manual is unique and carved out an interesting niche.  The play box book by Pia and the other woman I can't remember was different and pretty good, but I wouldn't call it groundbreaking.

 

Answer to the other stuff is obvious.  How many folks take up baseball pitching or hitting, or soccer, or pole vaulting (lol, lol) and make a lifetime pursuit of it? Golf is clearly different in that respect and others. And the point you leave out is --- how many books are there on the mental game for us average folks on pole vaulting and baseball pitching, lol - see, they aren't different.

 

Since that stone "G" was placed to mark the golfing/hunting boundary at The Old Course people want the quick answer, want to know how to hit a golf club or hit it better (it's hard to be good at golf), want the quick tip from their buddy who is good but has no clue how to tell anyone else how to swing, want the quick fix me lesson from the pro and give up whatever they worked on in about 3 bad swings --- nature of the golf beast.

 

So the forums mimic the history of the game as far as instruction and online stuff is focused there now primarily - that's what people want and always have.  Forums are also unique - some folks really get into the science of swinging a golf club.  Then, of course, the folks trolling certain methods and pretending to be golf physicists -- you don't get too much of that in the lounge after a round (we'd kill 'em, lol).

 

I'd like to see more, I like to read that stuff more now that I'm not "searching" and have a good idea where my swing is at and where I'd like it to go and committed to one path on that, not jumping around.

 

Maybe since golf was invented golfers inherently, for the most part, don't want to face the fact it's simply on them.

 

 

[N0rs3man]

Imo Ben hogan's book fkd golf. Bc scores are determined by short gsme. U shouldnt learn to swing first.

 

Also tv and pro stats don't help the cause. Ppl have to measure up and swinf 115 just to compete. If they can't do it then it's drills\mechanics until they can.

 

Most ppl don't start playing the game until they can hit a drive 270+ in play 50%

Edited September 23, 2020 by N0rs3man

[SNIPERBBB]

 The mechanics in other sports is much simpler. Take Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. Do you think they have a weak mental game compared to Tiger and Phil(on second thought Phil might not be the best example)?

 

In golf, the mental game is more implied as unless you're naturally gifted at golf, it takes enormous mental discipline to play at a descent level and improve.

[davep043]

A.  There are plenty of threads and books and other resources relating to "mental game".

 

2. My mental game is MUCH better when my ball-striking is good.  Confidence is good, shot-planning works out better, all of those mental things.

[Sean2]

Maybe I am wrong, but in a lot of other sports you are reacting. For example, if you are playing shortstop and a line drive is hit to you, you don't think about how you are going to catch it and the mechanics involved...you just react. Golf is one of those sports where you can actually think about what you are going to do before you do it, or thinking about what you just did, e.g., pulled the ball into the pond.  Thus, golf can be more "mental" than other sports.

 

And, since most of us are always tinkering with our swings, we end up playing golf swing and not golf. On a side note, you would think after 500 years someone would have come up with a way to simplify the golf swing. Since no one has, it just goes to show how difficult this sport is. 

[Krt22]

A good mental game may help salvage bad rounds or prevent really big blow up holes, but it's not going to be ground breaking in terms of long term improvement and significantly lower scores. You can have the best mental game in the world but it won't do much for you if you can't reliably control your ball.  A poor mental game is a much smaller issue than an improper mental approach to golf and how to improve in general. This includes leaving the ego at the door, having realistic expectations, and accepting that the best way for most golfers to improve is to address the flaws in their swing. 

[SNIPERBBB]

4 minutes ago, Sean2 said:

. For example, if you are playing shortstop and a line drive is hit to you, you don't think about how you are going to catch it and the mechanics involved...you just react. 

I thought that to before I got to high school baseball...my teams growing up were pretty good and we were just roster teams, not all-star teams. Which were the ones we lost to in tournaments. Got to high school and it was like I knew nothing about baseball even though I'd been playing since I was 4!

[Artemicion]

Because most of the mental game applies to what you experience under tournament pressure. How to deal with having to sink a 6 footer to win your state am, how to hold it together coming down the stretch to win your club championship, that sort of thing.
 

The vast majority of people don't play competitive golf, they just head to the course to have a good time with their buddies. There's no pressure in a Sunday morning hackabout with friends, nor do most people really care about what they shoot. But they all do need to swing a club, so most people look for a quick technical fix that will hold the swing together until they tee it up again a week later.

 

4 hours ago, Krt22 said:

A good mental game may help salvage bad rounds or prevent really big blow up holes, but it's not going to be ground breaking in terms of long term improvement and significantly lower scores. You can have the best mental game in the world but it won't do much for you if you can't reliably control your ball.

^ also this. Sports psychology is mostly about maximizing performance with the skills you already have, it's not magically going to take 5 shots off your score.

[MonteScheinblum]

I will echo what Krt22 said.  There is a huge mental component to improving your game.

 

I will give 2 examples.

 

1.  A change feels weird but produces good results...rate of abandonment almost 100%.

 

2.  Change didn’t produce acceptable results on first trip to the range....rate of abandonment almost 100%.

I discuss these issues and others during every interaction.

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by MonteScheinblum

[A.Princey]

On 9/23/2020 at 11:10 AM, davep043 said:

A.  There are plenty of threads and books and other resources relating to "mental game".

 

2. My mental game is MUCH better when my ball-striking is good.  Confidence is good, shot-planning works out better, all of those mental things.

I've had days where poor course management only compounds poor shot-making for the day, and that really weighs heavy on the confidence side of things. Worry/anxiety is the biggest downfall, and enemy of confidence. Hard to sometimes get it back without a break, as resetting the mind to neutral is a tricky endeavor mid-round.

 

The days where "you know you're better than this..." are really hard to wrap your head around,and do nothing but kill your psyche. 

 

The other thing I'll note is to stay within your OWN round, completely forget the scores and shots of your fellows and concentrate only on your ball. Too many times do I get wrapped in the cammeraderie of the day and the every move of my group to really stay focused on what I'm doing. It might sound a little selfish or unfriendly, but playing like your the only one out there really helps dial in your mind so much better, IMO.

Edited October 1, 2020 by A.Princey

[naval2006]

I think the reason for so much focus on technical aspects of the game is to do with how technical the swing can be.  

 

The mental side of golf is 99% applied to competitive golf.  In a golf culture where there's generally no interest in holding tournaments and championships at club level, most players unless they play a league or money matches just hit the course with their buddies or alone and complete the round.  No need to battle and grind it out to  post a winning, threatening or decent score with whatever game you have that day.   There's a focus on hitting and swinging well more than scoring.  When you play to score your priority is no longer to hit wonderful shots but to work your way around the course in the lowest possible number of shots.  Great shots always help but they don't show up often.  

 

 

[pinhigh27]

On 9/23/2020 at 8:45 AM, N0rs3man said:

Bc scores are determined by short gsme.

Besides the mountain of data that suggests this isn’t true. 
 

mental game is overrated . Get good mechanics and hit good shots. I’ve yet to see a bad golfer with a crap swing but a solid mental game. Confidence comes from technical proficiency 

[SNIPERBBB]

11 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

Besides the mountain of data that suggests this isn’t true. 
 

mental game is overrated . Get good mechanics and hit good shots. I’ve yet to see a bad golfer with a crap swing but a solid mental game. Confidence comes from technical proficiency 

How would you know they had a solid mental game? Mental game isn't always about confidence. It's decision making, attitude and confidence.  Confidence can be misleading

[bladehunter]

I’ll take the off side here.  
 

 

I believe mental game for anyone below a 5 handicap ( a real traveling handicap from the rear tees ) is responsible for at least 75.% of further improvement.   
 

explanation .  People discount the amount of time and effort needed to go lower than that.  In practice.  And in commitment to competition  itself.   This comes in the form of course management ( which is still my struggle ) and retaining focus on the present. And focusing in general .  You simply cannot take a shot off mentally.  When you inevitably miss that 4 ft putt you can’t then pout for 3-4 shots and make that anti bounce back bogey.  Or worse.  
 

I’ll give a personal example.  Since the Covid situation hit , my playing time dried up to one round a week early  Saturday mornings and pre scheduled tournaments where I have to make prior child - work - wife Arrangments.  This is due to having a child to teach school at home , and a business to float sideways and a wife who is a medical  worker .  So routine upside down.  Luckily I had built my boy and me a shortgame - putting area outside at home along with his basketball court.  So we have room to practice and exercise.  So I went from at least 3 rounds a week to 1.  You’d think this would kill a guys game.  But....  
 

  This change came during my focus on mental aspects.  And in some weird way it actually helped me appreciate each shot on course.  And believe it or not my scoring average has dropped 2 shots and is holding steady at 74... and my handicap has stayed at 0.3 to 0.7 the whole summer.  So 1/3 fewer rounds and everything  has improved.  There is no logical reason except mental game.  Conventional wisdom says it should have went the opposite way.  
 

tournament play went the same way.  I won 2 events , personal  low in my  county am , and led my club championship for 35 holes , by 5 shots at one point , and lost on 18 with one pushed swing that got a horrible break.  Against a kid who’s in college and plays daily.  Every bit of it is between the ears.  
 

All the “playing golf swing “ on earth won’t help someone who has mush between their ears ( I was that guy ) until they decide to grow a brain and stop beating themselves.  

Edited October 1, 2020 by bladehunter

[southplains]

On 9/23/2020 at 12:43 AM, Wormkiller said:

Why isn't anyone getting better with this mechanical focus that pervades learning this sport? Why has there been thousands of books written about the mechanics of the swing, thousands of studies done, technology advancements yet handicaps have increased over the last 50 years?

 

Why isn't there such an intense focus on mechanics for throwing a baseball pitch? Hitting a baseball? Kicking a soccer ball? Hitting a cover drive in cricket? Bowling in cricket? Pole vault? Archery? Any other sport?

 

What impact has the marketing of equipment and coaching had in this respect?  

Modern human beings are suckers for slick sales pitches, so those who are good at exploiting that are driven to better and better sales pitch techniques.  This aspect of human nature goes double for golfers who are driven to increase their momentary pleasure of a well struck golf shot and the satisfactions of winning golf matches, lowering handicaps, and generally "succeeding" at golf.  We crave techniques for bettering ourselves and the the technique sales pitches aim to capitalize on it.  In the olden days of golf, one simply watched good golfers and imitated them to the best of one's ability.  Even the mental side of golf carries the temptation that one can be taught how to think better instead of simply looking inside oneself for the answers.

 

 

[bladehunter]

48 minutes ago, southplains said:

Modern human beings are suckers for slick sales pitches, so those who are good at exploiting that are driven to better and better sales pitch techniques.  This aspect of human nature goes double for golfers who are driven to increase their momentary pleasure of a well struck golf shot and the satisfactions of winning golf matches, lowering handicaps, and generally "succeeding" at golf.  We crave techniques for bettering ourselves and the the technique sales pitches aim to capitalize on it.  In the olden days of golf, one simply watched good golfers and imitated them to the best of one's ability.  Even the mental side of golf carries the temptation that one can be taught how to think better instead of simply looking inside oneself for the answers.

 

 

Yes !  Very good point.  To clarify my own comments.  looking  inwArd and having that constant conversation with self is what I meant.  Not paying somebody for a method and following some recipe.  

[Obee]

2 hours ago, pinhigh27 said:

Besides the mountain of data that suggests this isn’t true. 
 

mental game is overrated . Get good mechanics and hit good shots. I’ve yet to see a bad golfer with a crap swing but a solid mental game. Confidence comes from technical proficiency 

 

This is absolutely true -- but only to a certain point. I'm guessing you've seen plenty of "good golfers" with "good swings" who tend to fold under pressure more than others whose ball-striking is inferior, but who are unflappable and "get it done" even when they are not striking it their best.

 

If you don't know guys like those two categories, then we can't have a discussion. But both categories of golfer do exist. 

 

And in many ways, "mental game" (which can be tough to pin down in a discussion like this) is what separates them.

[me05501]

I think there are less books and videos on the mental approach not because it's less important, but because there's less left to say. Sports performance mentality has been studied and understood now for quite some time and the lessons are fairly consistent. 

 

The basics are:

• Thinking about mechanics should be limited to the range and on-course practice; once you're playing a hole or a round where your score matters, you need to shelve those thoughts and trust whatever you have. 
• Humans evolved to be target-focused and the more specific the target the better. Pure focus on a target can help your body make its best effort to pull off a shot. 
• Most of us perform better using positive thoughts over negative ones. "I'm going to fly it right over that sprinkler head" is a far better thought than "just don't hook it." 
• Most of us can only truly focus for a few moments at a time, and it's important to give our minds appropriate breaks between shots. It's helpful to have a consistent pre-shot routine that includes a some sort of cue that it's time to focus intently on your target. 

Beyond that, it's mostly war stories and examples to underscore each point. 

These ideas aren't hard to understand. It just takes discipline to make them habitual. 

[llewol007]

You have a point but mechanics still has a big part of the game. The reason I say this is due in part to a player having the best thoughts ever and then putting a bad swing on the ball. It is different in golf since the ball is stationary where as most other sports, the ball is in movement and one must react. Think of Iron Byron and how it has no thoughts but has solid mechanics. In golf I would say it is 70 percent mechanics and 20 percent mental. 

Most golfer who are starting out, develop bad mechanics that keep them from ever improving. Yes they can manage around the golf course but their potential is very limited. You can reference any company tournament where a player comes out once a year. They are happy and probably have great swing thoughts but they have horrible mechanics and can hit a ball to save their life. That same player can be smiling all day, happy, never gets down on himself but his out to in swing that shows up every two or three swings, will never allow him to improve. Take someone else who has solid mechanics maybe through lessons or watching self help videos, book etc. their game will improve. There is a balance of mechanics and mental but not at 50/50 but more towards the 70/20. 

Edited October 1, 2020 by llewol007

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I’ll take the off side here.  
 

 

I believe mental game for anyone below a 5 handicap ( a real traveling handicap from the rear tees ) is responsible for at least 75.% of further improvement.   
 

explanation .  People discount the amount of time and effort needed to go lower than that.  In practice.  And in commitment to competition  itself.   This comes in the form of course management ( which is still my struggle ) and retaining focus on the present. And focusing in general .  You simply cannot take a shot off mentally.  When you inevitably miss that 4 ft putt you can’t then pout for 3-4 shots and make that anti bounce back bogey.  Or worse.  
 

I’ll give a personal example.  Since the Covid situation hit , my playing time dried up to one round a week early  Saturday mornings and pre scheduled tournaments where I have to make prior child - work - wife Arrangments.  This is due to having a child to teach school at home , and a business to float sideways and a wife who is a medical  worker .  So routine upside down.  Luckily I had built my boy and me a shortgame - putting area outside at home along with his basketball court.  So we have room to practice and exercise.  So I went from at least 3 rounds a week to 1.  You’d think this would kill a guys game.  But....  
 

  This change came during my focus on mental aspects.  And in some weird way it actually helped me appreciate each shot on course.  And believe it or not my scoring average has dropped 2 shots and is holding steady at 74... and my handicap has stayed at 0.3 to 0.7 the whole summer.  So 1/3 fewer rounds and everything  has improved.  There is no logical reason except mental game.  Conventional wisdom says it should have went the opposite way.  
 

tournament play went the same way.  I won 2 events , personal  low in my  county am , and led my club championship for 35 holes , by 5 shots at one point , and lost on 18 with one pushed swing that got a horrible break.  Against a kid who’s in college and plays daily.  Every bit of it is between the ears.  
 

All the “playing golf swing “ on earth won’t help someone who has mush between their ears ( I was that guy ) until they decide to grow a brain and stop beating themselves.  

 

Although injury recovery has been related to my ups and downs this year, after flirting with a 5 at 5.6/5.7 for five weeks, I'm back up to 7.8 and expect that's where I'll end up at the end of the year.  Ball striking, putting, everything contributed to some low scores early on this year, but things went a little haywire for a few weeks after that.

 

BUT, trying to analyze as I crept back upward what would have sustained me at almost 5 and maybe getting better than that the conclusions I reached are in agreement with your thoughts.  It's so much on mental game - I agree with @davep043 , I sure feel more confident, etc. when I'm striking the ball well, but so many of the dumb things that cause the doubles or careless bogeys are simply focus and concentration and getting rid of the casual attitude that I'm going to be right back out tomorrow so why not just go after it on every shot, no matter what.

[SNIPERBBB]

People are technicians by default. Give them a technique and they'll execute it with a reasonable degree of competency.  The results make not be what they want because the technique doesn't fit inside their system or the situation they're facing.  If they do get good results, theyll tend to force that technique into the above wrong situations.

 

All students and teachers should take a course into Permaculture. Every answer is. , It depends.

[naval2006]

2 hours ago, southplains said:

Modern human beings are suckers for slick sales pitches, so those who are good at exploiting that are driven to better and better sales pitch techniques.  This aspect of human nature goes double for golfers who are driven to increase their momentary pleasure of a well struck golf shot and the satisfactions of winning golf matches, lowering handicaps, and generally "succeeding" at golf.  We crave techniques for bettering ourselves and the the technique sales pitches aim to capitalize on it.  In the olden days of golf, one simply watched good golfers and imitated them to the best of one's ability.  Even the mental side of golf carries the temptation that one can be taught how to think better instead of simply looking inside oneself for the answers.

 

 

First time I saw a Golf Digest mag I was 14 and Seve, Greg Norman and Tom Watson were our heroes. I expected one of them pumping fists on a green or something but I was kind of disappointed when the cover content was a lesson on weight shift.  Fully agree with the spirit of your comment. 

[golfarb1]

It all about demographics.What age group comprises the demographics of golfers?

Because of the costs involved and the amount of time required , golfers are largely middle aged( +25) and older with the average age around 50. There are obviously younger players who are active golfers , these comprise only around % 20 of golfers.

Even though none of us want to admit it, our brain becomes less plastic as we age. As our brain becomes less plastic it is increasingly more difficult( although not impossible) to learn new motor patterns.

As we age our fitness levels generally decrease making it more difficult  to make movements required for improved golf swings. As we age we are more likely to have injuries that make it more difficult to swing better. These 3 problems are the prime reason why few golfers improve.

The demographics of other sports is much younger. How many 50 year old baseball  or hockey players do you know?

[Hawkeye77]

On 10/1/2020 at 1:05 PM, golfarb1 said:

It all about demographics.What age group comprises the demographics of golfers?

Because of the costs involved and the amount of time required , golfers are largely middle aged( +25) and older with the average age around 50. There are obviously younger players who are active golfers , these comprise only around % 20 of golfers.

Even though none of us want to admit it, our brain becomes less plastic as we age. As our brain becomes less plastic it is increasingly more difficult( although not impossible) to learn new motor patterns.

As we age our fitness levels generally decrease making it more difficult  to make movements required for improved golf swings. As we age we are more likely to have injuries that make it more difficult to swing better. These 3 problems are the prime reason why few golfers improve.

The demographics of other sports is much younger. How many 50 year old baseball  or hockey players do you know?

 

Over one third of all golfers are juniors and young adults and 25+ isn't close to "middle aged", so no, not only 20% are "younger players" with an accurate definition of what younger players are.

 

I'm older than middle aged, lol, know plenty a lot older, and no issues making movements necessary to swing a golf club, and brain?  LOL, wrong track there.  Plenty of people make lots of improvement as they get older, what you identify aren't the core issues.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2020 by Hawkeye77

[Tax77]

Weak mental game, or weak brain to hand messaging or is it strong messaging? Can't stop myself weakening the left hand the instant before take away, I seem to no longer have the physical capabilities to square the club from weak, but my hand doesn't seem to care. 

[harolease]

Mental game is as important as the physical  instruction.  However the questions in the thread is way overthinking.  Not typical of what golfers ask in lessons.