Wasting time and money to replace a club that doesn't need to be replaced

[tadlehmann]

Not sure what the point of this post is.  Don't know if I've learned my lesson (or if there is one to be learned).

 

I'm a golf club aficionado (ho) like so many on this site.  This summer I built the perfect 4W on paper with help from my fitter at Club Champion.  Cost me a damn mint.  And from almost moment one, nothing was better.  The supposedly more forgiving club sprayed the ball worse than ever, even with a slightly shorter shaft.  Even though it's a higher loft, the trajectory was too low to be useful.  Ended up selling the damn thing for less than half of what I paid for it two months earlier.  

 

And all of this was to replace a club that works just fine.  I have a TM V-Steel VSII 15* that I have called "Excalibur" more than once (which I bought purely on account of the volumes of praise dedicated to it in these forums).  I've hit dead nuts perfect tee shots with this club more times than I can count over the last 5-6 years it's been in my bag.  I've also lost a fair amount of balls with it.  And because it isn't ALWAYS perfect, I tried to upgrade the violin without really thinking about the musician doing the playing.  

 

And within a week of selling that expensive replacement, I had already bought another shaft on the cheap for another "project".  After the wife and kids are asleep I find myself watching videos of various fairway woods to try to find that perfect intersection of performance / design (on paper at least).

 

So what's the lesson from all of this?  Maybe there's more than one, or maybe there aren't any out there.

1.  The biggest change for me is whether the expensive fitting places are actually worth it.  Club Champion built me a phenomenal driver.  that cost a ton too, but I love it and that makes it easy for me to justify the cost.  But after this latest episode, I'm now down to a 50% success rate.  Moreover, I can't stop thinking about the fact that I could have tried two or 3 fairway woods - buying them w/ stock offerings or buying whatever the hell I wanted off BST or eBay) for the price of this single club at Club Champion.  I'm not advocating against fitting, but I probably got lucky with my driver there and from that point it's better to experiment with lower cost / used clubs than to mount up and plow a ton of money into a single club.  Definitely appreciate whatever the WRX community has learned here

2.  Took a lesson in Sept and the pro had an almost identical V Steel in his bag that I had in mind.  He doesn't try to replace it, because it works.  Maybe that's the lesson...

3.  ...but trolling for gear is a lot of fun too

4.  Last, I'll ask for advice for a clubhead (since I've got a spare shaft I want to try).  Currently, I hit my 3W almost exclusively off the tee - but I'd like to have something that's a little more versatile so I can hit them off the deck more often.  Control (findability) is job number one - willing to leave yards on the table if it's something I can rely on time and time again.  Looking at:

 

PING G410 (I know it's a good club, decent adjustability, not in love with it)

A friend of mine has a never used Rogue 17* head.  Are these good?  Any problem with draw bias (because I certainly don't need that)

Cobra SZ or F9

Mizuno ST200

 

DO NOT WANT:

Titleist

Any "spin killer" fairways

 

many thanks all

[Hougz79]

Entertaining read.  I'm sure many here can relate to some extent.  I haven't went to CC yet for a club or fitting, but I have more than once upgraded a perfectly good club only to be disappointed....many times.  One day I'll learn I swear.   

 

To answer your question on a 3w recommendation; I can vouch for Rogue FWs.  I had a 3w a few years back that I really enjoyed.  The EF Blue was a little high launching for my tastes and since it's a glue-in hosel, instead of trying to reshaft, I just replaced it.   That said, I found it to be a very good head.  Nice sound and feel, above average forgiveness.  I do not believe it has draw bias, but I would double check.  The Mavrik (non SZ) does have draw bias.  I have not gamed a Cobra FW so I can't comment on them other than I read good things about them.

 

Good luck in your search.  I look forward to reading about what you build.  

[jvincent]

I am very familiar with this story.  Over the years I have had many "don't mess with this" driver setups that I have eventually messed with.

 

To your final question, I'm playing a Cobra F9 Tour 4W that I really like. Compact head, which I like, and gives me the flight I want.

[PopeofTexas]

You sound a lot like me, constantly tinkering with the bag for no good reason. I love my V-steels (3/5/7) but I've had great luck with the Cobra SZ 3 Wood this season. I also can hook the crap out of a fairway wood or hybrid and at least with the Cobra I can turn it down to 14.5 to open the face and it does seem to help. You can also loft it up if you like but I prefer the open setting. I actually really like the stock Tensei Blue in it too. I'm a steep swinger and hit the ball high and this club is great off the deck. My only other advice is to weaken that grip with the FW wood if you can...

[GBBM]

I have gone through what you’re going through 1000 times and ended up building back a bag of the best of the best clubs I wished I’d kept. Once I put it all together I played the best I have in 2 years right up until the season ended.

 

I try not to think about how much it cost me to find out clubs made from 2010-2015 are just as good or better than anything for me.
 

But if I hadn’t have done all the experimenting I wouldn’t have come across these gems that help me get the most from my crappy skills. And there is some nostalgia value in that. I went through the entire ho circle and ended up almost back where I started. 

[JohnKHawk]

I am the same way with golf equipment. Even if I have clubs that work well I'm always willing to buy something else because of the chance it may be better than what I have already. 9 times out of 10 it isn't.

 

Part of the fun of golf to me is tinkering around with new & different equipment. Keeps me excited about playing. I know all the tinkering is a detriment to my golf game but I'm OK with that. That being said I did commit this year to game the same clubs & saw a noticeable improvement in my scores. Broke 80 more than usual for sure. Of course it didn't stop me from acquiring new clubs...just didn't play them until October.

[tadlehmann]

Appreciate the replies thus far.  I can say with confidence that I'll continue to do what I've been doing.  I just can't get over the fact that I literally manufactured a problem to "fix", flushed a bunch of money on something that wasn't better, and STILL pulled the trigger on a shaft before the offending fairway wood landed on someone else's doorstep.  

 

The shaft I bought is a Fujikura Atmos (red) Tour Spec.  I have the blue in my driver and love it.  Put the blue in the TS2 I bought and it was bad.  

 

I think the Atmos is a really good shaft for me, and decided to give the red (high launch) a try because the traj w/ the 16* TS2 was so low.

 

Adjustable 3 woods these days can usually get cranked up to about 16* or so, and my friend's Rogue is 17*.  Might that + the red be too high?  Maybe.  But maybe a good compliment to my current V Steel gamer.  

 

And this is where I think I'm stuck in the rinse / repeat doom loop again.

 

look forward to more back and forth

[Mike_Honcho]

i think #2 and #3 are spot on...i sold my M6 a while back and I haven't hit another driver (Epic Flash and the EXS220) quite as well...pretty close with the EXS220 but i still give the nod to the M6...maybe i should buy another M6? 😉 🤣

[ScottF]

You will never, ever find the club that will solve all your issues. Even if do you find it, (and probably already have) sooner or later, you’ll run into a bad streak, blame the club, and start all over. You love tinkering with clubs so you’ll never need much incentive to build another. 

[Sean2]

Some people like shiny new things, whether they need them or not. I used to do a lot of buying and selling, but not anymore. A club(s) has to have a real WOW factor before I buy. 

[jomatty]

Man do I identify with this.  I just bought a new driver (ts2) to replace a driver I was hitting well (mizuno st190) to find I liked the old driver better.  So I sold the titleist and went back to the st190 right?  Of course not I bought a st200 that I knew was basically the same.  I’m happy with the st200 but the entire process has yielded me nothing.  I think that is where fittings or at least demoing come in to play.  At least you know what you are getting and how you will respond to it.  That said, the used market is strong, and I buy a lot of used and shop fairly hard for deals.  So I often make out good on the situation even if I have to sell the club because it doesn’t work out.  I almost never lose more than a little shipping...and at the end of the day it is fun to open boxes and try new things.  It is also fun for me doing research and planning what I want to buy.  
 

whatever I say though, I DO NOT NEED NEW IRONS.  No matter what, until the end of next season and I need to stop watching videos on new irons in the meantime...

[cardoustie]

I’ve got 40 fairway woods in the basement, can’t help you

 

Find a head u like and try some 5 year old premium shafts that you can get at a great price on line, that’s fun

 

personally, love g400 heads for playing off the deck and changing back weights for swing weight tinkering 

[bnperrone]

4 hours ago, tadlehmann said:

This summer I built the perfect 4W on paper with help from my fitter at Club Champion.

Sounds like you dictated the whole process and they obliged. I've been guilty of that before so I'm not gonna act like it's some impossibly dumb thing, but you really can't blame the fitter when you go in with a preconceived notion of what you're gonna end up with.

 

Also, you mentioned avoiding draw bias but then you mentioned cranking lofts up for various 3-woods. You'll close the face dialing up loft no matter whose design it is. I think you need to surrender to the process with a real fitter.

[chipa]

I build my own clubs and I have a similar situation with what to use between my irons and driver, which I both hit relatively well. My course is short and tight and accuracy is very important, as well as forgiveness because of numerous forced carries over brush.

 

I built a 2 hybrid that I played as a 4 wood because the head was so light that was very long 235 and good off the tee if I hit it well when it was anywhere near the center. I had a 90 gram x shaft in it. However, it just seemed too small at 140 cc and when I hit it on the bottom and it was a straight bullet right into the junk.

 

I had a 4 iron from my set, a small and short blade with the same 90g x shaft but I had the same problems. I know part of the problem is discipline because I have a tendency to overswing on my tee shots. However, my driver is much more forgiving and I have been able to get away with mishits so I have been looking for a similar solution for the 210 to 230 gap "fairway finders"

 

I found a couple of component heads from Monark Golf, where I but most of my stuff. A 160 cc 18 deg. 5 wood for $35 that allows the face angle to be changed, which is important  because I can rarely find a 5 wood in my budget that doesn't look like it is pointed left(I hook the ball). I will put an $8 TT Lite in it stiff flex because it plays on the firm side. It will be a full 1" shorter than my 4 wood and with 2 degrees more loft and with the bigger head I expect this club will be significantly more forgiving which means I can probably count on it going at least 225 off the tee when I hit it well.

 

I also surprisingly found a smallish cb(GI) for $10 with minimal offset that I like in a 21 degree 4 iron with a wider sole than my blades. I say surprisingly because Monark doesn't say anything specifically that this is more of a players club, I was actually able to figure it out by looking at pictures on the web and also because it had lower offset than most of the other irons. I will put a $8 lightweight 105 gram steel shaft  in this one 0.25" longer than standard. I feet it should be plenty accurate and long at around 210 off the tee.

 

These two clubs in addition to a new $20 putter (from Monark)and a 60 deg, low bounce Maltby wedge in great condition for $16 on ebay with some recent swing changes(shorter more compact) make me feel I can get my hc to the single digits in a matter of months. Also, I already have my irons set up after trying at least 3 different sets from Monark with cheap $6 Apollo shafts that I hit farther and better than any irons I have ever played in 15 years. I have spent some money trying out stuff maybe $250 but the stuff I haven't used have gone to a buddy and my goddaughter and the caddies at my local club.

Edited November 4, 2020 by chipa

[95124hacker]

To quote one of my low handicap friends many years ago when I told him his clubs were outdated and he must try out the latest equipment: “try new clubs? I’m still learning how to hit the ones I have!”

[RogerinNewZealand]

Keep buying and reshafting..no need too say why here.I rebought my 3rd Ping Rapture v1 driver in April....looking too pull shaft,spine align,at 44.5🙂

[iNeedMoreGolf]

I think the lesson ive learned is that their is only one or two brands that truly fit a golfers whole spirit and swing and good true golfers should know what i mean by that. My example is... i can hit other companys clubs well sure... but nothing feels like callaway woods and mizuno irons to me. They just fit me so well. Now from their within those brands i like its pick the best clubs for yourself and thankfully i have. This can be a hit or miss though still and once you find that club that is like magic for you... you better hang on to it.. even after a few years when you want to buy something new, chances are it could be bad for you.

[larryd3]

I was on a kick to replace my TM M4 driver that I absolutely hit great.  Just wanting that extra 10 yards.  Well, I tried and sold Sim Max, TS2, and a TS3.  I'm giving up, hopefully, and sticking with the M4.  May pick up an M6 head for reserve or who knows.....    Anyways, I found that the original Epic 15* works great for me.  I lucked into it by hitting a buddies several times on the course and then went and found a used one set up the same as his.  It's been in the bag 1 1/2 years or so and I don't even think about looking for a different one.  I hit it well off the tee and also it's great in the fairway.  I think fairway woods that work are tough to find so when I found this one, I quit looking.  

 

Forgot to mix in the Rogue and Epic Flash drivers to the try and dump list.  

Edited November 4, 2020 by larryd3

[SUPERG]

Man for 2 years I've tried to replace a Tour  Issue Jetspeed with a 95 Gram Aldila Tour Green, I've tried TS3, TS2, M3, M4, M5, Rogue, Epic Flash and Mavrik and at the end of the day the Jetspeed I got for 60 bucks 4 years ago always wins LOL 

[Doyouevenblade]

3 woods and putters... Find one that works and never let go. 

 

The m6 and sim max have some vsteel sole heritage. Maybe a place to start? Crank down a 5W if you don't want draw bias and a 17* small head. 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Doyouevenblade

[Vinsanity23]

Anyone else think the title of this thread could be the motto on the website home page? I certainly know I'm guilty.

[jah7838]

I've been trying for years to find a driving iron type club to replace my Adams Super 9031 23* hybrid, and I have failed every time.  I don't know why I keep trying, but I do....and I'm still trying for some reason.   

 

I've also gone through a lot of 3 woods over the years to try to get more distance and consistency than an old Adams XTD 15* Super Hybrid, only to go back to the 15* Super Hybrid that I lucked out in finding recently.  

 

I haven't been as bad with putters.  I tend to find one I like and stick with it for a long time.  

[tadlehmann]

16 hours ago, cardoustie said:

I’ve got 40 fairway woods in the basement, can’t help you

 

Find a head u like and try some 5 year old premium shafts that you can get at a great price on line, that’s fun

 

personally, love g400 heads for playing off the deck and changing back weights for swing weight tinkering 

that first line you typed gave me a good laugh - it's clear that "I came to the right place" with my original post

 

My driver (that I love) is a G400 Max, so the G400 FW would seem to be a logical pairing.  I need to find out how adjustable it is - one thing that's nice about the G410 is that you can move the loft and lie a fair amount (but I don't know if the same is true for the 400)

 

thx

[tadlehmann]

20 hours ago, Hougz79 said:

Entertaining read.  I'm sure many here can relate to some extent.  I haven't went to CC yet for a club or fitting, but I have more than once upgraded a perfectly good club only to be disappointed....many times.  One day I'll learn I swear.   

 

To answer your question on a 3w recommendation; I can vouch for Rogue FWs.  I had a 3w a few years back that I really enjoyed.  The EF Blue was a little high launching for my tastes and since it's a glue-in hosel, instead of trying to reshaft, I just replaced it.   That said, I found it to be a very good head.  Nice sound and feel, above average forgiveness.  I do not believe it has draw bias, but I would double check.  The Mavrik (non SZ) does have draw bias.  I have not gamed a Cobra FW so I can't comment on them other than I read good things about them.

 

Good luck in your search.  I look forward to reading about what you build.  

much appreciated feedback on the Rogue FW.  there's a chance I try that because my friend's for-sale 17* head has never been hit and probably wouldn't cost me more than $100.  If I hit it and hate it, I doubt I'll lose much more than $20 + the cost of an adapter / installation

[tadlehmann]

16 hours ago, bnperrone said:

Sounds like you dictated the whole process and they obliged. I've been guilty of that before so I'm not gonna act like it's some impossibly dumb thing, but you really can't blame the fitter when you go in with a preconceived notion of what you're gonna end up with.

 

Also, you mentioned avoiding draw bias but then you mentioned cranking lofts up for various 3-woods. You'll close the face dialing up loft no matter whose design it is. I think you need to surrender to the process with a real fitter.

my man - you have no idea how correct you are

 

I went in there with two things in mind:

1.  my new fairway wood would be on the shorter end of things (like 42.5" or so)

2.  I wanted higher loft (16* or 16.5*) but didn't want the smaller 5W head size.  That left a fairly short list of candidates - Titleist being one of them.

 

I hit a couple of other things - but I can say I was expecting the Titleist to be "the club".  And perhaps I made it so and my fitter let me do that.

 

(and back to my original post - the reason I felt like this was fine is it's exactly what I did for my driver.  I have a 44" Ping G400Max that I absolutely love.  and I went to that same fitter two years ago for a short shafted driver, and I told her I wanted the most forgiving thing out there.  was willing to leave yards on the table for less lost balls.  She fit me to the Atmos TS blue and that's been a wonderful match, and the GMax is killer. 

In hindsight, it's very possible / likely that I shot the moon with that club in spite of how I guided the process from the get go.  And because of the success I've had with the driver, I thought I had cracked some sort of code and could formulaically go down one step in the bag and work my golf alchemy again.)

 

And you surprised me with something else you said - I thought that the adjustment sleeves for today's clubs could change loft / lie independent of face angle or bias.  So anything I add loft to is going to increase my leftward risk?  I've got more websearching to do if that's the case

 

appreciate your post

[tadlehmann]

2 hours ago, jah7838 said:

I've been trying for years to find a driving iron type club to replace my Adams Super 9031 23* hybrid, and I have failed every time.  I don't know why I keep trying, but I do....and I'm still trying for some reason.   

 

I've also gone through a lot of 3 woods over the years to try to get more distance and consistency than an old Adams XTD 15* Super Hybrid, only to go back to the 15* Super Hybrid that I lucked out in finding recently.  

 

I haven't been as bad with putters.  I tend to find one I like and stick with it for a long time.  

I play an Adams Super Hybrid and that thing ain't going anywhere.  

[royalgingerness]

At last count I've bought 17 (and I've probably missed a few) drivers that weren't as good for me as my R510tp. I feel your pain!

[bnperrone]

2 hours ago, tadlehmann said:

my man - you have no idea how correct you are

 

I went in there with two things in mind:

1.  my new fairway wood would be on the shorter end of things (like 42.5" or so)

2.  I wanted higher loft (16* or 16.5*) but didn't want the smaller 5W head size.  That left a fairly short list of candidates - Titleist being one of them.

 

I hit a couple of other things - but I can say I was expecting the Titleist to be "the club".  And perhaps I made it so and my fitter let me do that.

 

(and back to my original post - the reason I felt like this was fine is it's exactly what I did for my driver.  I have a 44" Ping G400Max that I absolutely love.  and I went to that same fitter two years ago for a short shafted driver, and I told her I wanted the most forgiving thing out there.  was willing to leave yards on the table for less lost balls.  She fit me to the Atmos TS blue and that's been a wonderful match, and the GMax is killer. 

In hindsight, it's very possible / likely that I shot the moon with that club in spite of how I guided the process from the get go.  And because of the success I've had with the driver, I thought I had cracked some sort of code and could formulaically go down one step in the bag and work my golf alchemy again.)

 

And you surprised me with something else you said - I thought that the adjustment sleeves for today's clubs could change loft / lie independent of face angle or bias.  So anything I add loft to is going to increase my leftward risk?  I've got more websearching to do if that's the case

 

appreciate your post

I feel your pain. I got fitted for a Ping G410 LST in 10.5 with Evenflow Black 6.5X with the weight in the toe position playing about 1/2" short of standard at D2. It's the best driver I've ever played. It's already one of the favorite clubs I've ever owned. I also like evenflow white in a hybrid. I figured I'd clone the driver with a 5W turned down to 4-wood loft. Nope. Tried 3W LST head with the shaft to clone it. Nope. Tried a bit higher SW and a bit lower. Nope. At the same time I'd bought a Ping Hybrid and the matching shaft cause if cloning the fairway wood is good then cloning the hybrid is even better. You probably can tell how that worked out. Thankfully I bought them used but super clean and sold them all used but super clean. I thought I "cracked the code" just exactly like you said, and it didn't work at all. 

 

That's why I'm trying to be helpful and direct but not harsh, because I did the same exact thing! 

 

I'll defer to the more knowledgeable folks in here, but my understanding is that hosel adjustment sleeves can never be truly independent for loft and lie adjustments. There's a big long dissertation somebody can write about soling the club and this and that, but I'm pretty certain physics don't allow for a perfectly independent adjustment. 

 

Best of luck to you. I think what you'll find is that if head size is really important to you then there are probably 15* 3-woods that launch higher than others or a slightly different shaft could get you there. Either way, I surrendered and it was a good reminder that buying on specs isn't ideal. 

[schwollo]

Been there done that. Lots of time and money trying to find a club that's used only a few times per round. . It’s pretty much what wrxers do 24/7. Fittings are great but nothing beats taking clubs out on the course. All that being said i highly suggest the G410 (non lst for me). I didn’t lose any distance vs the lst and it is super easy to elevate. To fit my eye, I actually went flat And down 1 degree so it plays 13.5. Didn’t miss a shot with it last round I played . Paired it with AD Di shaft. Previous 3 wood was a 915FD which I liked but the G410 was just straighter longer more consistent and easier to hit off the deck. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by schwollo

[Hat Trick]

I think a general fitting is important, but if a player doesn't have a consistent swing then a fitting will only be so good.  I'm in my 5th decade of play golf and I play a lot (80-100 rounds a year in the northeast).  I  don't change equipment much - I  have had 6  Titanium drivers,  5 sets of irons,  and maybe 6-8 sets of wedges.  But none of them changed my handicap/scores (6.8 index) dramatically - we all buy a lot of hope!