How is Bridgestone Golf's Strict Insistence on Driver Ball Speed in Fitting Defensible?

[Babydaddy]

I believe that before the MGS 2019 test companies such as Titleist were sharing their data about much lower swing speeds being able to compress the golf ball- but with more and more data showing that soft is slow and that for most swing speeds within human reason balls will perform similarly off the tee commensurate with swing speed. If I swing 100mph I will likely hit the Tour BX further than the BRXS- 

But what baffles me is this very finite 105 MPH line in the sand that Bridgestone has drawn, and for a company with such a focus on innovation, it really seems very dumbed down and completely out of touch with reality. 

Is there something that I am missing in this? Is it just an attempt to differentiate Bridgestone from other competitors- kind of like one liners for politicians? It's just that it's been proven largely untrue-

 

What say you?

[hammergolf]

I’ve tried all the balls. Hands down, the 2020 Tour B X outperforms every other ball for me. I don’t swing as fast as the “recommendation” states, but it’s longer off all clubs for me.

[Babydaddy]

25 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

I’ve tried all the balls. Hands down, the 2020 Tour B X outperforms every other ball for me. I don’t swing as fast as the “recommendation” states, but it’s longer off all clubs for me.

 

25 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

I’ve tried all the balls. Hands down, the 2020 Tour B X outperforms every other ball for me. I don’t swing as fast as the “recommendation” states, but it’s longer off all clubs for me.

Yes- and yet they keep recommending something that doesn't jibe with that- even though there is all sorts of independent data to suggest the arbitrary speed of 105 MPH with a driver doesn't mean a whole lot for most golfers.

[Babydaddy]

I meant to say Driver Swing Speed- not ball speed- I don't see that I can edit the title!

[hammergolf]

My driver swing speed is low to mid 90’s. And the BX performs the best for me. I wouldn’t put too much stock into their recommendations. I took a sleeve of the BX, B XS, and RX out and tested each of the models. BX was longest off all clubs yet still had plenty of short game spin. Hands down the best ball I’ve ever played, even though it’s not recommended for me based on Bridgestone’s ball selector and swing speed.

[Babydaddy]

11 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

My driver swing speed is low to mid 90’s. And the BX performs the best for me. I wouldn’t put too much stock into their recommendations. I took a sleeve of the BX, B XS, and RX out and tested each of the models. BX was longest off all clubs yet still had plenty of short game spin. Hands down the best ball I’ve ever played, even though it’s not recommended for me based on Bridgestone’s ball selector and swing speed.

Well I appreciate the feedback! I bought a dozen of the B X and a dozen of the B XS as well- I have also tried the prior R XS-

I don't know what it is- I just tend to like a ball that I can feel longer on the face- It's really hard to explain- I used to love the feel of the Titleist DT Wound 90- even though most of my peeps were using the Professional Balata or the Maxfli HT Balata I loved the springy feel of the DT Wound 90- I recently found a couple of them and went out and pitched with them and the feel was like going back to your favorite toy store as a kid. The Tour B X so far is a little firm for my taste but I haven't been able to compare on course with either the Z-Star or the B XS- I loved the feel of the XS on the course and it performed beautifully into hard, fast greens - and it was durable too!

[hammergolf]

Sounds like B XS is exactly what you’re looking for.

[arbeck]

Here's the thing, most golfers at slow swing speeds aren't using spin to stop the ball on approaches at all. So while a soft ball spins less, it doesn't really effect their game as much in regards to stopping power. A slow swinger also isn't punished as much by the drop in ball speed going softer causes. What the lack of spin does is give them a half club or more in distance with their irons and hybrids due to lower spin. I'm sure Bridgestone has data (and Callaway has said the same thing) showing that for the average golfer at x speed, they will gain more in scores from lowering spin on the irons than increasing it on the irons and around the green.

 

The idea of fitting a ball to a swing speed does make a certain amount of sense in this case. However, the big issue is that many people take this to mean that a softer ball reacts better to a slower swing speed, and this is just not true. A firm ball is faster for everyone.

[dripsauce]

On 11/29/2020 at 7:40 PM, Babydaddy said:

I believe that before the MGS 2019 test companies such as Titleist were sharing their data about much lower swing speeds being able to compress the golf ball- but with more and more data showing that soft is slow and that for most swing speeds within human reason balls will perform similarly off the tee commensurate with swing speed. If I swing 100mph I will likely hit the Tour BX further than the BRXS- 

But what baffles me is this very finite 105 MPH line in the sand that Bridgestone has drawn, and for a company with such a focus on innovation, it really seems very dumbed down and completely out of touch with reality. 

Is there something that I am missing in this? Is it just an attempt to differentiate Bridgestone from other competitors- kind of like one liners for politicians? It's just that it's been proven largely untrue-

 

What say you?

I work in a golf shop. We get the old questions all the time. What compression is this golf ball? Which one goes further? When realistically, your avg golfer who swings 95 mph and struggles to break 90 compression shouldn’t even matter. I feel Bridgestone just tried to dumb down it for people who overthink and read too many golf articles 

[Sean2]

I am a senior and have found off the tee pretty much every ball goes the same distance. The only difference I see among golf balls is performance around the green. 

[cristphoto]

I find it interesting that a large number of LPGA players use the firmer ProV1X ball while many PGA pros are switching back to the softer Prov1 or TP5 versions.  I wonder how many Bridgestone pros stick with Bridgestone's guidelines?  

[Ri_Redneck]

I've never had to prove my CHS when purchasing any Bridgestone balls, so I think any "finite speed" is simply implied, not required.

 

BT

[scooterhd2]

Bridgestone's lineup is confusing. The names are confusing. And no matter where they got 105 from, it seems arbitrary to the consumer and also drastically limits the customer pool which is a terrible business concept. You have the Tiger ball. Everybody wants to be like Tiger, and you are telling 90% of your potential customers that this is not the ball for you? Maybe its of service to the customer, but do you  think Titleist only wants to sell Provs to single digit caps. No, they want everyone to be a player and have standards and use the best. You think anyone wearing Nike's was going to ball out like Jordan? No, but it was the chance to be like Mike and that's what they pushed. 

 

Bridgestone would be better served saying if you want the best of the best, use the B line. BXS to zip the ball on the greens like Tiger, or BX to hit it long like Bryson. That is such an obvious marketing angle. And if you prefer a softer feel, but still want the best performance check out the R line. 

[phizzy30]

My cousin bought a dozen of the Tiger balls, aka B XS.  He gave me a sleeve to try.  They are exceptionally soft but spun too much for my liking.  As a result I found myself hitting high spinny floaters off the tee whenever I would swing hard or into the wind.  I found the BX to be a much better fit spin and overall distance wise.  I think ball fittings are done best on a launch monitor. 

[Flyers99]

I am not sure why people are confused or debating Bridgestone. They are providing a simple guideline for selecting a ball. Their lineup seems simple to me. The have two balls in each category- one firm/less spin and one softer/more spin. Based on everything I have read or watched video on seems to follow their model. Higher swing speeds seem to have better results with the BX/BXS versions and the slower swingers seem to have a better result with the BRX/BRX versions.  Not 100% but seems their recommendation is an accurate guideline. I swing around 95-100 and have best results with the BRX. 

[scooterhd2]

15 hours ago, Flyers99 said:

I am not sure why people are confused or debating Bridgestone. They are providing a simple guideline for selecting a ball. Their lineup seems simple to me. The have two balls in each category- one firm/less spin and one softer/more spin. Based on everything I have read or watched video on seems to follow their model. Higher swing speeds seem to have better results with the BX/BXS versions and the slower swingers seem to have a better result with the BRX/BRX versions.  Not 100% but seems their recommendation is an accurate guideline. I swing around 95-100 and have best results with the BRX. 

 

and what if your club head speed is 103?

[Ri_Redneck]

Try each and see what works best for you.

 

BT

[Flyers99]

2 hours ago, scooterhd2 said:

 

and what if your club head speed is 103?

Do the same as you would with any other balls you were looking at and try them and see what works. If you want less spin compare the BX with the BRX. If you want more spin compare BXS with BRXS.  

People on here compare 2-3-4-5-6 balls at a time with no issues.  I am not sure why you want Bridgestone to tell you exactly what to play.  You can either use their guideline or not but as stated above just try them and see what works. 

[scooterhd2]

1 hour ago, Flyers99 said:

Do the same as you would with any other balls you were looking at and try them and see what works. If you want less spin compare the BX with the BRX. If you want more spin compare BXS with BRXS.  

People on here compare 2-3-4-5-6 balls at a time with no issues.  I am not sure why you want Bridgestone to tell you exactly what to play.  You can either use their guideline or not but as stated above just try them and see what works. 

 

I agree. But with Bridgestones swing speed line, that is presented as the deciding factor between B and R models. 

 

I dont need Bridgestone to tell me what ball to play. I have no problems trying multiple balls. I have been trying MTB-X, Z STAR XV, and TP5X. If I were to use my own logic to add a Bridgestone ball to my testing pool I would choose the BX. But in fact, there are telling me my swing speed is to slow for that ball. So then I should try the RX (that is what there VFit tool recommends for me), but I can tell you right now that I'm not going to like that 66 compression rating feel. So I either ignore Bridgestone's 105 swing speed recommendations, or they simply do not make a ball for me. If you agree that I should ignore their recommendations and do my own testing then you agree that their strict insistence of club head speed does not have complete merit. 

[Flyers99]

44 minutes ago, scooterhd2 said:

 

I agree. But with Bridgestones swing speed line, that is presented as the deciding factor between B and R models. 

 

I dont need Bridgestone to tell me what ball to play. I have no problems trying multiple balls. I have been trying MTB-X, Z STAR XV, and TP5X. If I were to use my own logic to add a Bridgestone ball to my testing pool I would choose the BX. But in fact, there are telling me my swing speed is to slow for that ball. So then I should try the RX (that is what there VFit tool recommends for me), but I can tell you right now that I'm not going to like that 66 compression rating feel. So I either ignore Bridgestone's 105 swing speed recommendations, or they simply do not make a ball for me. If you agree that I should ignore their recommendations and do my own testing then you agree that their strict insistence of club head speed does not have complete merit. 

I guess we view recommendations different. I do not see Bridgestone being strict and insisting you try a certain ball. The 105 speed I am sure was picked based on data and research. Nobody is making you try or not try a ball. If your swing speed is under 105 have it and try the X models and not the R models. It may or may not work for you. Feel is subjective so saying you are not going to like a ball on feel doesn’t really factor into the marketing aspect of their SS recommendations. 

[buckI]

Miss the 330S.   That to me was their best ball.   Have not liked the changes since then.   That ball to me seemed like a mix of Pro V1 and Pro V1x to me and had that great smack feel of the driver.

[chippa13]

1 hour ago, scooterhd2 said:

 

I agree. But with Bridgestones swing speed line, that is presented as the deciding factor between B and R models. 

 

I dont need Bridgestone to tell me what ball to play. I have no problems trying multiple balls. I have been trying MTB-X, Z STAR XV, and TP5X. If I were to use my own logic to add a Bridgestone ball to my testing pool I would choose the BX. But in fact, there are telling me my swing speed is to slow for that ball. So then I should try the RX (that is what there VFit tool recommends for me), but I can tell you right now that I'm not going to like that 66 compression rating feel. So I either ignore Bridgestone's 105 swing speed recommendations, or they simply do not make a ball for me. If you agree that I should ignore their recommendations and do my own testing then you agree that their strict insistence of club head speed does not have complete merit. 

They are merely recommending what they believe would provide the most enjoyment for players above or below a particular swing speed. It isn't like they have people at stores testing your swing speed before allowing you to purchase a dozen balls.

[Honeybadger]

Isn’t interesting that with a lower compression ball, I will hit my driver shorter, but my short iron longer. 

[chippa13]

That is because the spin difference between soft and firm is less with driver than with irons.

[DavidH88]

Honestly, i never go on what the info says on the box, its nothing but a guideline but at the end of the day, its down to personal preference imo. If you like the characteristics of a ball, then stick with it. I have been playing the 2018 bxs for the past 3 seasons and have never played better with it. I have a new box of 2020 model raring to go for next season since its winter here now in the uk and courses have been shut due to a national lockdown we have had to endure. Dont think i will be using another brand ball anytime soon 😊
 

 

[bluedot]

It's critical to remember that there is an 800 lb gorilla in the premium golf ball market, and if a company is going to sell enough golf balls to have a sustainable market share, they have to figure out another niche; they are NOT going to do well against Titleist and the ProV1. 

 

So Bridgestone and Callaway have tried to do it another way, by targeting the great mass of golfers that have slower swing speeds.  That research and independent testing has shown conclusively that their marketing is largely BS just means that their marketing is like most other marketing and advertising in the world; it's meant to sell a product, not to inform consumers.

 

The weird thing, at least to me, is that golfers continue to fall for it, even with mountains of data to the contrary available.  But that's why companies advertise, right?

[cristphoto]

Doesn't Srixon mark on their boxes swing speed recommendations also?  And I think they mention the 105mph threshold too.  

Edited December 10, 2020 by cristphoto

[MattM97]

I just use those "suggestions" as a rough guideline, the ultimate test is getting a sleeve or box of each ball you want to try and then take them out on the course. Especially with Bridgestone all their top balls are the same price so not like the ball they tell you to play is $10 more than the ball you think you should play. 

 

[kasting333]

On 12/4/2020 at 5:18 PM, buckI said:

Miss the 330S.   That to me was their best ball.   Have not liked the changes since then.   That ball to me seemed like a mix of Pro V1 and Pro V1x to me and had that great smack feel of the driver.

Really? I’ve loved the 2020 XS. How could you not like it? If it’s good enough for Tiger...

[buckI]

20 hours ago, kasting333 said:

Really? I’ve loved the 2020 XS. How could you not like it? If it’s good enough for Tiger...

I have not tried the 2020 much.   Did not like the 2018 when comparing it to others.    Switched back to Titleist and really liking the Pro V1.    Willing to give the 2020 ball a better chance.   Played in an alternate shot with a friend who plays it and liked it but still not like the 330S.