Monte’s new Broom Force

[MonteScheinblum]

7 minutes ago, ronw04 said:

That's fantastic Dean. 

 

What confused me is when Monte says "off the chest" to me, that means out and not down. 

 

I'm already 4 degrees out to in I don't want any more. 

That’s because of something else.  Shoulders opening early, poor shift, poor wrist movements, etc.

 

Left arm off the chest is not OTT.

Edited June 13, 2022 by MonteScheinblum

[ronw04]

23 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

That’s because of something else.  Shoulders opening early, poor shift, poor wrist movements, etc.

 

Left arm off the chest is not OTT.

Yep, I'm a "early shoulder opener" with few peers. It's a constant fight. 

 

 

[ronw04]

10 hours ago, Trippels said:

I also feel like I hit the ball susipicously good with the counter top drill and other drills that Monte say are awful, which makes me think I'm doing them incorrectly.

Yeah for me the difficulty of the drill is offset by my shoulders actually being in a decent position for once in my life 😂

[TheDeanAbides]

52 minutes ago, ronw04 said:

Yep, I'm a "early shoulder opener" with few peers. It's a constant fight. 

 

 

These drills (along with JR drill) are made for you. Get that feeling of your arms moving down your torso before the shoulders fly open. Basically, there’s a “position” (that’s not a position) from where hitting the ball becomes very easy because you’ve created so much room. 
 

It almost feels like falling arse first towards the target and leaves room and time for the arm swing. It’s why the best players often say that they have loads of time to transition despite swinging so fast. 
 

For someone like you who opens up too quickly there’s no time at all so you have to learn to get those arms moving faster whilst slowing the shoulders. When you get it it’s a big AHA! moment.

[ronw04]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

These drills (along with JR drill) are made for you. Get that feeling of your arms moving down your torso before the shoulders fly open. Basically, there’s a “position” (that’s not a position) from where hitting the ball becomes very easy because you’ve created so much room. 
 

It almost feels like falling arse first towards the target and leaves room and time for the arm swing. It’s why the best players often say that they have loads of time to transition despite swinging so fast. 
 

For someone like you who opens up too quickly there’s no time at all so you have to learn to get those arms moving faster whilst slowing the shoulders. When you get it it’s a big AHA! moment.

From time to time I've done it.  On the range I have success. It gets more challenging on the course when you have to hit your misses and put a number on the scorecard. 

 

Had a good day at the range today. My misses were pull hooks which is the opposite of my usual weakish fades. When something is the opposite of what it's been before historically speaking for me I know I'm on the right track. 

 

Going to the course tomorrow and we will see. Couldn't care less about where the ball goes just looking for good contact. As this weekend I was invited to a member/guest I'd like to hit the ball straight (ish) there 

 

 

[Trippels]

Dr kwon teaching some Broomforce concepts

 

 

[Trippels]

Question about the connection betwee NTC and broomforce.

 

Monte has mentioned in the countertop drill, the counter is at 8 o'clock. And he demonstrates that the club face should lay flat on the countertop, facing the ground.

For me this requires an extreme amount of flexion of the lead wrist, much more than what I get from just doing the Cast A, as I've understood you should do it. 

So I have to ulnar deviate in Cast A, then close the face with my wrist so much that my right arm almost goes into internal rotation and my wrist start hinging up again.

 

On the other hand, on a instagram live video. Monte demonstrates how NTC and Broomforce is connected and flow into each other, and does not close the face like you're supposed to in the countertop drill. He does Cast A, after which the toe of the club is pointing up to the sky almost, then just lowers the arms down without much increase in flexion, and says that's the broomforce part.

 

So I'm confused as to how much flexion/closing you're supposed to try and do while performing Cast A and lowering the arms down and forward.

Because I'm having trouble with how Cast A flows into the countertop drill, based on how they're demonstrated.

[Precis1on]

11 hours ago, Trippels said:

Question about the connection betwee NTC and broomforce.

 

Monte has mentioned in the countertop drill, the counter is at 8 o'clock. And he demonstrates that the club face should lay flat on the countertop, facing the ground.

For me this requires an extreme amount of flexion of the lead wrist, much more than what I get from just doing the Cast A, as I've understood you should do it. 

So I have to ulnar deviate in Cast A, then close the face with my wrist so much that my right arm almost goes into internal rotation and my wrist start hinging up again.

 

On the other hand, on a instagram live video. Monte demonstrates how NTC and Broomforce is connected and flow into each other, and does not close the face like you're supposed to in the countertop drill. He does Cast A, after which the toe of the club is pointing up to the sky almost, then just lowers the arms down without much increase in flexion, and says that's the broomforce part.

 

So I'm confused as to how much flexion/closing you're supposed to try and do while performing Cast A and lowering the arms down and forward.

Because I'm having trouble with how Cast A flows into the countertop drill, based on how they're demonstrated.

I havent seen both vids in a while, but I’ll just leave some general thoughts.

 

The amount of ulnar into Cast A is “some”. And it doesn’t last as long as you think, certainly not a continuation into how closed you are at Countertop in a real swing unless you’re Berger. From a personal swing perspective I hold ulnar a hair too long so once I feel ulnar in transition I have to release ASAP. 
 

From what I remember, countertop was just a drill meant for folks who didn’t have an understanding of what a closed club face felt like going into impact. It’s an exaggeration drill to train your body to react differently and rotate properly through impact. 
 

Work both of these drills separately, don’t worry about stringing them together. If you’re practicing properly and letting your swing develop over time you’ll see some of both start to show up. 

[Dazgore]

What I understand is this.....

 

The drills are just that, a drill. 

 

The bench top is a feeling that at that point in the swing the club face sits on the bench, it's a static feel position.

 

Its to encourage the body to react to a perception of where the club is in the swing.

 

You feel like you are laying the club on the bench at that point in the swing, done at full speed it happens throughout and gets the club in the perfect position at impact, once all forces are applied, rotation etc ...

 

Daz

 

 

[GMN_02]

The drills are meant to be exaggerations because you will never come close to those positions in normal swing even if you feel like you are.

[BeenWild]

On 6/17/2022 at 10:31 PM, Trippels said:

Question about the connection betwee NTC and broomforce.

 

Monte has mentioned in the countertop drill, the counter is at 8 o'clock. And he demonstrates that the club face should lay flat on the countertop, facing the ground.

For me this requires an extreme amount of flexion of the lead wrist, much more than what I get from just doing the Cast A, as I've understood you should do it. 

So I have to ulnar deviate in Cast A, then close the face with my wrist so much that my right arm almost goes into internal rotation and my wrist start hinging up again.

 

On the other hand, on a instagram live video. Monte demonstrates how NTC and Broomforce is connected and flow into each other, and does not close the face like you're supposed to in the countertop drill. He does Cast A, after which the toe of the club is pointing up to the sky almost, then just lowers the arms down without much increase in flexion, and says that's the broomforce part.

 

So I'm confused as to how much flexion/closing you're supposed to try and do while performing Cast A and lowering the arms down and forward.

Because I'm having trouble with how Cast A flows into the countertop drill, based on how they're 

It's definitely an exaggeration drill. It's the lead edge of the club that needs to be square to get the full effect of the drills in Broomforce. Countertop, Two Justins and sweep it drill all.need a square leading edge (toe and heel touching the ground/imaginary counter). It will require different and possibly extreme wrist movements which definitely that were foreign to me initially. Now, I'm comfortable with those positions and the muscles in the my forearms and hands are strong enough to support those positions.

 

In Cast A from NTC, the cast motion of the left wrist will be all the you need as long as the the right hands makes a matching opposite movement. Once you make that movement, leave your wrists along and rotate. You club will be square.

 

 

Countertop is a moment in time drill that helps get the wrists/clubface in a better position heading into impact. Cast A gets you in the correct position in transition.

 

At the top of the swing, Toe of the club pointing to the ground is an open clubface. Toe up (pointing to the sky) is square to closed clubface.

[mantan]

This was a really interesting video for me. I got the email that the video on the sale and made an impulse purchase last night.

 

My background. Bogey golfer who keeps trying to get better.  I went WAY down the rotation/hold the hinge bunny trail a few years ago.  Monte's 'Plane and Release' video finally got me out of it. My swing is the example he showed of someone who  spins the hips, drops the right shoulder,  drops the club behind them and tries to make it work.  I've been fortunate in that I've never been an OTT caster, but struggle to find consistency.  When I'm playing well, my shots are as pure as good as I'd ever want. But I'll fight hooks, pushes and just bad golf when my timing is off.

 

I've been fortunate enough to see Monte for lessons a couple of times in person. His eye for the swing and getting me back on track are phenomenal.

 

This video was eye-opening for me because it changed my idea of the arms in the downsing.  I've had a lot of instructors work with me to fix my backswing, but have been told my position at the top and coming down on plane are spot on.  But my swing keys have always been hip driven. Especially on the downswing.  My feeling is that the arms are 'along of the ride' than having an active part.

 

The idea of the arms dropping the broom down, then sweeping completely changes the feel/sequencing of my downswing.  Instead of feeling like it's a race to the ball, it's more controlled until it's time to fire.  Did some of the drills on conference calls this morning and in true golfer fashion, went to the range in 102* temps after work to try it out. 

 

I had planned to just hit easy 9-irons to get a feel. It felt lot more in control on the downswing. The results were great. So of course I turned up the gas. 🙂 It's still a work in progress, but it feels like I am on the right track. I did try a few longer clubs.  It felt a little harder to square the club up.  It felt like I was hititng toe-y pushes more than the solid contact with shorter clubs.

 

I only hit a small bucket because of the heat, then went to the short game area. This range's short game area is large enough to hit 50-60 yard shots.  I just used a wedge and focused on half shots and getting the broom down, the sweeping.  It felt like I was ingraining the feeling of hitting it with the rotation and trusting the sequencing.

 

A work in progress for sure, but have always had good results when I've gone back to what Monte teaches.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by mantan

[mantan]

On 6/22/2022 at 7:32 PM, mantan said:

This was a really interesting video for me. I got the email that the video on the sale and made an impulse purchase last night.

 

My background. Bogey golfer who keeps trying to get better.  I went WAY down the rotation/hold the hinge bunny trail a few years ago.  Monte's 'Plane and Release' video finally got me out of it. My swing is the example he showed of someone who  spins the hips, drops the right shoulder,  drops the club behind them and tries to make it work.  I've been fortunate in that I've never been an OTT caster, but struggle to find consistency.  When I'm playing well, my shots are as pure as good as I'd ever want. But I'll fight hooks, pushes and just bad golf when my timing is off.

 

I've been fortunate enough to see Monte for lessons a couple of times in person. His eye for the swing and getting me back on track are phenomenal.

 

This video was eye-opening for me because it changed my idea of the arms in the downsing.  I've had a lot of instructors work with me to fix my backswing, but have been told my position at the top and coming down on plane are spot on.  But my swing keys have always been hip driven. Especially on the downswing.  My feeling is that the arms are 'along of the ride' than having an active part.

 

The idea of the arms dropping the broom down, then sweeping completely changes the feel/sequencing of my downswing.  Instead of feeling like it's a race to the ball, it's more controlled until it's time to fire.  Did some of the drills on conference calls this morning and in true golfer fashion, went to the range in 102* temps after work to try it out. 

 

I had planned to just hit easy 9-irons to get a feel. It felt lot more in control on the downswing. The results were great. So of course I turned up the gas. 🙂 It's still a work in progress, but it feels like I am on the right track. I did try a few longer clubs.  It felt a little harder to square the club up.  It felt like I was hititng toe-y pushes more than the solid contact with shorter clubs.

 

I only hit a small bucket because of the heat, then went to the short game area. This range's short game area is large enough to hit 50-60 yard shots.  I just used a wedge and focused on half shots and getting the broom down, the sweeping.  It felt like I was ingraining the feeling of hitting it with the rotation and trusting the sequencing.

 

A work in progress for sure, but have always had good results when I've gone back to what Monte teaches.

 

 

 

 

I had the chance to go the range on Thursday evening, then Friday morning and played a round on Saturday.

 

More than anything, it helped me understand my sequencing on the downswing. I was the classic hip spin, shoulder drop, club is behind me and try to make it work golfer.  I always felt my arms were 'along for the ride' in the downswing.  A way overcooked remnant of when I was too far down the rabbit hole of misunderstanding the rotational swing/hold the lag concept.

 

 

This is also a flashback to a lesson I had with Dan Whittaker when he was stateside. I'd been working on getting an out and away element of my backswing with him before. I'd finally nailed it down from a previous lesson. Then he showed me the downswing and how the club moves through the ball with rotation. It was exactly what Broom Force is. But I wasn't ready for it mentally. It was like he was asking me to levitate the X-wing out of the swamp.  It literally did not compute.

 

Fast forward years later after Monte and Michael Martin helped me flush a lot of old ideas out of my head and I actually get it now. 

 

The range sessions were fantastic. My iron play was fantastic yesterday.  I struggled a bit with the driver on the front 9.  But it is about trusting the sequencing and not trying to 'rush' back to the ball. The club will get there and release just fine.

 

Not sure if @kowalgolfpost a couple of pages back was tongue in cheek or not, but that helped as well. The arms moving earlier/simultaneously with the hips was a key. But the visual of hitting 'the first ball' with the center of the shaft plane that he shows in that video was a great feel for me.  From there it was letting your body rotate the clubhead through and bam.

 

 

 

No magical 20 yards in distance or groupies emerging from sandtraps.  My distances have always been fine. The difference is consistency.  I wasn't hooking balls 30 yards left. Or blocking balls 15 yards right. It felt like my swing was efficient, rather than duct taped together and hoping it would hold up for each shot.

 

[michaeld_2020]

I had a recent online lesson with Monte where he highlighted to me that my arms are so passive in transition and I need to speed them up. So I watched broomforce, but now when I play I hit everything starting left, and with driver they become pull hooks. What would this indicate?

[ThePaineTrain]

14 hours ago, michaeld_2020 said:

I had a recent online lesson with Monte where he highlighted to me that my arms are so passive in transition and I need to speed them up. So I watched broomforce, but now when I play I hit everything starting left, and with driver they become pull hooks. What would this indicate?

 

I was having the same problems after broomforce with every driver shot and occasionally with irons. My current fix (for my swing) seems to be making sure I feel like I keep the hands closer to the body when "dropping" from the top of the backswing, then firing the turn and sweep motion through the ball.

 

No idea if this will help you though. A video might help someone with more knowledge diagnose your issue.

Edited November 10, 2022 by ThePaineTrain
Rewording request for video

[MK7Golf21]

15 hours ago, michaeld_2020 said:

I had a recent online lesson with Monte where he highlighted to me that my arms are so passive in transition and I need to speed them up. So I watched broomforce, but now when I play I hit everything starting left, and with driver they become pull hooks. What would this indicate?

The face angle is mostly responsible for the starting line. So you are having too closed a clubface at impact, it’s really that simple. Your path is matching the closed clubface for straight pull and for the pull hook your clubface is closed even more than the path.  
 

This is number one issue if you read these threads on no turn cast and broom force. After awhile you will get tired of hitting it left and will then stop throwing the club so under and releasing so much. 

[games]

19 hours ago, michaeld_2020 said:

I had a recent online lesson with Monte where he highlighted to me that my arms are so passive in transition and I need to speed them up. So I watched broomforce, but now when I play I hit everything starting left, and with driver they become pull hooks. What would this indicate?

 

Most likely turning body too early in downswing.  I tend to turn my body / shoulders too early.  Monte would prescribe the Justin Rose drill.  (It helps me to think of the football official's signal for intentional grounding.)

 

Secondary cause might be ball too far forward in stance.

[Golfbeat]

Having good success with Broom Force drills. This video helps as well. It is important to have soft wrists when dragging the broom completely to the finish.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/ClJT1IxLkHh/

 

 

[PracticeSwinger]

8 minutes ago, Golfbeat said:

Having good success with Broom Force drills. This video helps as well. It is important to have soft wrists when dragging the broom completely to the finish.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/ClJT1IxLkHh/

 

 

Looks like an awesome drill - and blends in nicely with Broomforce (slap shot) and NTC (casting intent when and where) - gotta work on this in the upcoming months, poor wrist action is one of my culprits... which is pretty weird actually considering my high level hockey background... seems like a 'swinging' a golf club vs 'hitting' a slap shot dilemma

Edited December 9, 2022 by MtlJayMan

[gbs29]

Does anyone know what angle the left arm is at when you unhinge the wrist a few feet back of the ball?

Also where am I exactly unhinging?

Halfway between feet and ball ...on the target line?

Appreciate any help.

Monte?

 

[ThinkingPlus]

22 hours ago, gbs29 said:

Does anyone know what angle the left arm is at when you unhinge the wrist a few feet back of the ball?

Also where am I exactly unhinging?

Halfway between feet and ball ...on the target line?

Appreciate any help.

Monte?

 

You need to use the "at" symbol to generate a notification. So @MonteScheinblum in a thread using the lookup pop-up will notify him.

[MonteScheinblum]

23 hours ago, gbs29 said:

Does anyone know what angle the left arm is at when you unhinge the wrist a few feet back of the ball?

Also where am I exactly unhinging?

Halfway between feet and ball ...on the target line?

Appreciate any help.

Monte?

 

Don’t try to be too

precise with this.  Direction is more important than when 

[glk]

23 hours ago, gbs29 said:

Does anyone know what angle the left arm is at when you unhinge the wrist a few feet back of the ball?

Also where am I exactly unhinging?

Halfway between feet and ball ...on the target line?

Appreciate any help.

Monte?

 

This might be of help

 

[KD1]

I just wanted to bump this thread... I know I'm late to the party but long story short I stumbled back into the broom force ideas and it's freaking eye opening!

 

Chipping through long irons are killing it right now! Woods aren't there yet but that's because I got issues... Don't ask.

 

[MrHateCoffee]

I bought it and watched everything.  I doubt I use the broom part because I understand that one.

 

Out of curiosity, which drills did people find most useful?  I'm trying to figure out how to spend my time. 2 Justins might be where I start.

[KD1]

Countertop drill is essentially what was prescribed to me.

[Macroach]

Thinking of getting the bundle for The Modern Trilogy: Efficient Swing, No-Turn Cast, and BroomForce BUNDLE. Also interested in the power shift. 
 

Do you all feel that all the videos would be helpful or is there significant overlap in the drills and concepts? 

[naj959]

1 hour ago, Macroach said:

Thinking of getting the bundle for The Modern Trilogy: Efficient Swing, No-Turn Cast, and BroomForce BUNDLE. Also interested in the power shift. 
 

Do you all feel that all the videos would be helpful or is there significant overlap in the drills and concepts? 

Some overlap between ntc and es. All great videos. Just different ways of describing the essential movements. If one video doesn't click one of the others will. ES and PS resonated with me the most.

[Macroach]

Thank you foot relating  your experiences  - I think I will start with ES and PS and go from there. 

Edited Tuesday at 05:13 PM by Macroach

[MrHateCoffee]

On 4/22/2024 at 9:00 PM, KD1 said:

Countertop drill is essentially what was prescribed to me.

 

Yeah that's essentially what I found most useful.  

 

It's actually a nice shot to use on the course if I'm not striking it well with my regular swing.  I already had NTC but I should've hopped on this sooner