LPGA/PGA, why does it have to be separate?

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, KBong said:

1) You forgot about #10 at Riviera....another CLASSIC great short par 4 designed that way with fantastic risk/reward and a par is not even a guarantee.

 

Yes....I absolutely hate when a par 4 with no obvious penal areas or risk reward are shorten to make a driveable par 4.

#14 at the Vancouver Golf Club for the 2015 CWO was shortened on Sunday to make it driveable.

It was simply a long par 3....with no penal attributes in and around the green for any tee shots.

 

2) Ya...I hate seeing the big hitting PGA pros hit driver & 8 iron into a par 5...WTH.

The issue is...there are few 8200-8500+ yard courses that are available or those courses are ones the PGA tour would not consider a viable host venue because they lack good/great course architecture. 

#10 at Rivera is a great example of how a short par 4 can be great even without a OB or water type risk.  They are other ways to have it.  Are the tours a bit too enamored with the fad du jour of short par 4’s? Perhaps.  But they can be a great chance for birdie for the chasers.
 Not every hole needs to be a really difficult par for the best in the world.

[grm24]

5 hours ago, KBong said:

Augusta National has created the annual ANWA....but that's only a 1 day event held at Augusta National.

54 hole event with the final round played at Augusta. Top 30 players after 36 holes play the final round at Augusta.

[KBong]

17 minutes ago, grm24 said:

54 hole event with the final round played at Augusta. Top 30 players after 36 holes play the final round at Augusta.

Yes....I should have provided more info....vs the one day event play on Sat at AN.

 

All 72 golfers play Wed & Thurs rounds at Champions Retreat.....all players play a practice rd on Fri at AN....yes...the top 30 players from Wed & Thur's play get to compete on Sat at AN.

[Argonne69]

8 hours ago, KBong said:

1) You forgot about #10 at Riviera....another CLASSIC great short par 4 designed that way with fantastic risk/reward and a par is not even a guarantee.

 

Yes....I absolutely hate when a par 4 with no obvious penal areas or risk reward are shorten to make a driveable par 4.

#14 at the Vancouver Golf Club for the 2015 CWO was shortened on Sunday to make it driveable.

It was simply a long par 3....with no penal attributes in and around the green for any tee shots.

 

2) Ya...I hate seeing the big hitting PGA pros hit driver & 8 iron into a par 5...WTH.

The issue is...there are few 8200-8500+ yard courses that are available or those courses are ones the PGA tour would not consider a viable host venue because they lack good/great course architecture. 

 

One shortened hole on the LPGA that I don't mind is the 16th at Aviara GC. There is some trouble on the left with the pond. In addition, the severity of the slope on the right, along with the thickness of the rough, makes for a challenging up and down if the player stays right of the green. The green itself is big enough that two putts aren't a sure thing. We've seen plenty of players three putt from the back of the green when the hole is in the front.

 

[KBong]

3 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

One shortened hole on the LPGA that I don't mind is the 16th at Aviara GC. There is some trouble on the left with the pond. In addition, the severity of the slope on the right, along with the thickness of the rough, makes for a challenging up and down if the player stays right of the green. The green itself is big enough that two putts aren't a sure thing. We've seen plenty of players three putt from the back of the green when the hole is in the front.

 

I believe it was this hole.

I saw a Youtube video the other day...Minjee was fielding some questions from some kids in Oz....one asked her how many HIO's she's had.

Minjee answered...one....if you count a par 4...lol.

[Rapidcat]

Because Dexter said so...

 

[KBong]

2 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

Because Dexter said so...

 

Where have you been hiding lately?.....you must be with The Invisible Woman....Mollie.

 

You still in lock down?

I played my 135th rd yesterday...it will rain later today....so no golf...but playing tomorrow.

[Rapidcat]

2 minutes ago, KBong said:

Where have you been hiding lately?.....you must be with The Invisible Woman....Mollie.

 

You still in lock down?

I played my 135th rd yesterday...it will rain later today....so no golf...but playing tomorrow.

 

The time in some states in Oz is now moved to 'daylight saving' so our time has 'moved forward' by an hour. It is 4.45am as I type this. So I have to make a decision to either stay up late or get up early to watch LPGA US stuff live - not great either way.

 

So I have been watching stuff on record/delay so that I don't go mad with lack of sleep. I can't do this and read the event threads before I watch or it gives away what has happened, so playing catch up.

 

However, might still go mad with lockdown - still happening in my city, now 2 months in this lockdown, 243 days total across all our lockdowns, most in the world.

 

No matter, buying, testing and discarding a bunch of putters in doors....just tested a Cleveland Frontline 10.5 slant neck and hate it, have just ordered a Wilson Infinite Bucktown, all low cost and I sell on the rejects.

 

Anyway, just now starting to get better fields after the Solheim. Loved the Solheim.

 

Oh, and damn your 135 rounds - I haven't even played 135 holes in the same period.🤣

[Argonne69]

3 hours ago, KBong said:

Where have you been hiding lately?.....you must be with The Invisible Woman....Mollie.

 

You still in lock down?

I played my 135th rd yesterday...it will rain later today....so no golf...but playing tomorrow.

 

Slacker. Played my 149th round of the year yesterday. 

 

[Nels55]

14 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Slacker. Played my 149th round of the year yesterday. 

 

Round number 164 for me yesterday.  LOL next?

[KBong]

5 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

No matter, buying, testing and discarding a bunch of putters in doors....just tested a Cleveland Frontline 10.5 slant neck and hate it, have just ordered a Wilson Infinite Bucktown, all low cost and I sell on the rejects.

 

Man, you're a CLUB HO...a true WRX ho.

I was in Golftown today....they brought in new supply of Infinite putters....about 20....I was surprised.

 

The weather has changed now....slower, wetter and colder conditions.

 

My lag putting has normally been pretty good....but it's been PATHETIC for about 5 rds.....some rds no 3 jacks....lately I've had some four and five 3 jack rds...with total putts 36+...WTF.

Obviously, closer proximity to the hole would help too.

I've been switching back and forth between the Ping and Cleveland putter without success.

 

Played like a MENTAL MIDGET yesterday with 3 Korean women....65, 67 & 83 years old...no knee highs though.🤣...but lots of other knee high Koreans on other holes.

All pushing carts....tough to maintain any cadence when they hit quite a few shots 10-20 yards...WTH.

I shot a 77...+7....36 putts...four 3 jacks....no birdies....couldn't convert some good birdie chances....chunked two 80 yard approach shots on par 5's leading to bogey....DUH....I'm a GOLFING CLOWN.

Other rds in the low/mid 80's as of late...UGH....my putting S*CKS....in the past 2 weeks.

 

I'm a bit injured....have a left hip joint pain...over play recently...6 rds in 7 days a while ago.....trying to get some golf in while the weather was ok.

 

Any idea when you're lock down will be lifted?

 

If you watch some US football games....you wouldn't think there's a 4th wave happening....70000-100000+ fans....sitting beside each other...no masks. 

[KBong]

1 hour ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Slacker. Played my 149th round of the year yesterday. 

 

I wish I had your money to burn on the links...lol.

 

I'd play more but it's a 100 km round trip for me to golf at the course I belong to....so some days....I'll drive just to practice to get some fresh air...it's only 38 km round trip.

[KBong]

Jonny Scott on Castren's bag...he used to be on Aza's & Lydia's bag.

[Tasals]

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2020/03/03/usga-reveals-us-womens-open-loses-millions-annually/

 

Because the womens tournaments dont bring in the money. US Womens Open loses the USGA 10.4 million dollars a year they put it on while the men bring in 165 million... The USGA has also previously had difficulty finding courses willing to host the tournament as well, even threatening to revoke the mens tournament if courses wouldnt host the womens event. Even the double header at pinehurst had some of the stadium seating removed to make the stands look fuller on TV.

[KBong]

55 minutes ago, Tasals said:

at pinehurst had some of the stadium seating removed to make the stands look fuller on TV.

Ya...I recall reading this a while ago too.

 

But I gotta believe all the other USGA events outside of the USO loses money too.

[Rapidcat]

@KBong @Argonne69 @Nels55

 

Well that's just dandy for me to read you playing all this golf whilst I'm locked down.🙁

 

Trust that you'll forgive me a little schadenfreude here.....think of all that golf where you have ingrained all those swing faults and compensations🤣

 

I'm just jealous of course🙂

[Rapidcat]

9 hours ago, KBong said:

Man, you're a CLUB HO...a true WRX ho.

I was in Golftown today....they brought in new supply of Infinite putters....about 20....I was surprised.

 

The weather has changed now....slower, wetter and colder conditions.

 

My lag putting has normally been pretty good....but it's been PATHETIC for about 5 rds.....some rds no 3 jacks....lately I've had some four and five 3 jack rds...with total putts 36+...WTF.

Obviously, closer proximity to the hole would help too.

I've been switching back and forth between the Ping and Cleveland putter without success.

 

Played like a MENTAL MIDGET yesterday with 3 Korean women....65, 67 & 83 years old...no knee highs though.🤣...but lots of other knee high Koreans on other holes.

All pushing carts....tough to maintain any cadence when they hit quite a few shots 10-20 yards...WTH.

I shot a 77...+7....36 putts...four 3 jacks....no birdies....couldn't convert some good birdie chances....chunked two 80 yard approach shots on par 5's leading to bogey....DUH....I'm a GOLFING CLOWN.

Other rds in the low/mid 80's as of late...UGH....my putting S*CKS....in the past 2 weeks.

 

I'm a bit injured....have a left hip joint pain...over play recently...6 rds in 7 days a while ago.....trying to get some golf in while the weather was ok.

 

Any idea when you're lock down will be lifted?

 

If you watch some US football games....you wouldn't think there's a 4th wave happening....70000-100000+ fans....sitting beside each other...no masks. 

Funny stuff, your 3 elderly Korean women story reminds me of this:

 

Don't end up being a version of this:

Lockdown in Melbourne is scheduled to be lifted when we reach 80% double vax for 16 yo and older, which will be middish November - provided our fearless leader doesn't go back on his roadmap of opening up, reasonable chance that he will, he's stuffed/back tracked/lied on many issues.

 

I am reduced to living vicariously from watching pro events and being on here, need to add some actual play. I have a golf week planned with buddies once Victoria is set free.

[KBong]

8 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

Funny stuff, your 3 elderly Korean women story reminds me of this:

 

 

I think the membership is 60% Korean.....with 90% Koreans as twilight members...I'm a twilight member.....I would guess the average age of twilight members is 68???....I'm 60.

 

Tons of Asian golfers here in Van City.

Korean are ADDICTED to golf....I know a lady that would even play in the winter rain...WTH.

Se Ri Pak created the addiction...men and women.

[KBong]

@Rapidcat are there a lot of Asian golfers in Oz?

 

Lydia Ko's family was considering a move to Canada or Oz.....Sura....Lydia's older sister was going to school in Canada.

 

On our 2011 China vacation....on our tour ....we had some nice and funny Oz people on the trip.

 

A nice couple from Perth and 2 old guys who took advantage of some ladies of the night...lol...they'd always tell me their stories at breakfast.

They liked me so much they gave me 2 new & huge Oz beach towels.

We got thrown out of a karaoke bar lobby in a hotel by the bouncers...they knew we were tourists and didn't want foreigners nosing in on the "funny" business with the bar...lol.

 

I'd like to do a golf & wine tour vacation in Oz & NZ.

[Rapidcat]

5 minutes ago, KBong said:

@Rapidcat are there a lot of Asian golfers in Oz?

 

Lydia Ko's family was considering a move to Canada or Oz.....Sura....Lydia's older sister was going to school in Canada.

 

On our 2011 China vacation....on our tour ....we had some nice and funny Oz people on the trip.

 

A nice couple from Perth and 2 old guys who took advantage of some ladies of the night...lol...they'd always tell me their stories at breakfast.

They liked me so much they gave me 2 new & huge Oz beach towels.

We got thrown out of a karaoke bar lobby in a hotel by the bouncers...they knew we were tourists and didn't want foreigners nosing in on the "funny" business with the bar...lol.

 

I'd like to do a golf & wine tour vacation in Oz & NZ.

By Asian golfers in Oz, I guess you mean on golf trips from their homes in Japan, China etc? If so, not many, Oz is too expensive vs other Asian alternatives.

 

Plenty folk of Asian origin who have moved to Australia and set up home, we took plenty of Vietnamese after the war there, plenty of Hong Kong Chinese as well leading up to the handover in 97 (lots of $ came in with them of course), lots of Indians over the last 15 years. The old white Australia policy was discarded (good) 40 years ago, all very multi-cultural, I guess some things in common with Canada. Fantastic restaurant scene.

 

Golf & wine tour vacation in Oz & NZ....perfect.

 

[MtlJeff]

"Saucy but not productive" ---Man you sound like my Ex describing my performance.

 

A couple of comments i will make:

 

-I have posted this before in regards to allegations or implications of sexism between mens and womens sports. it would be a LOT easier if women actually watched other women play sports. At the end of the day men watch a ton more sports than women do, and they typically watch men. When women watch sports, they tend to also watch men ( i guarantee you more women watch the Super Bowl or the NBA finals than the WNBA finals). Women need to watch more women's sports. I have many female friends that i work with or manage, i have never once heard a woman talk about how she can't wait to watch the LPGA or WNBA later that night. I don't believe that simply putting it on NBC at primetime is going to convince women to watch other women play sports. It might help, but it won't make the difference. They used to air WNBA games on NBC and the ratings were terrible.

 

-You know what women DO watch? Reality TV...They listen to music etc...This is why Taylor Swift is worth 500M and the Kardashians are worth hundreds of millions. There are several examples of very succesful women, who got rich because women supported them...just in things other than sports. Women will make other women succesful if they watch. Currently they don't

 

FWIW i have a daughter and want her to achieve great things, of course....I'm just trying to be realistic here. Some of this is market driven. Should men watch more women's sports? Maybe....But it's not like we're gonna force them too

 

Women who are pushing for equal pay etc---Do your part and WATCH games. Don't just watch the super bowl with your boyfriend, tell him to watch the LPGA with you. Are women really doing that?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

3 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

"Saucy but not productive" ---Man you sound like my Ex describing my performance.

 

A couple of comments i will make:

 

-I have posted this before in regards to allegations or implications of sexism between mens and womens sports. it would be a LOT easier if women actually watched other women play sports. At the end of the day men watch a ton more sports than women do, and they typically watch men. When women watch sports, they tend to also watch men ( i guarantee you more women watch the Super Bowl or the NBA finals than the WNBA finals). Women need to watch more women's sports. I have many female friends that i work with or manage, i have never once heard a woman talk about how she can't wait to watch the LPGA or WNBA later that night. I don't believe that simply putting it on NBC at primetime is going to convince women to watch other women play sports. It might help, but it won't make the difference. They used to air WNBA games on NBC and the ratings were terrible.

 

-You know what women DO watch? Reality TV...They listen to music etc...This is why Taylor Swift is worth 500M and the Kardashians are worth hundreds of millions. There are several examples of very succesful women, who got rich because women supported them...just in things other than sports. Women will make other women succesful if they watch. Currently they don't

 

FWIW i have a daughter and want her to achieve great things, of course....I'm just trying to be realistic here. Some of this is market driven. Should men watch more women's sports? Maybe....But it's not like we're gonna force them too

 

Women who are pushing for equal pay etc---Do your part and WATCH games. Don't just watch the super bowl with your boyfriend, tell him to watch the LPGA with you. Are women really doing that?

Very true about women not watching women's sports. I used to go to the LPGA Championship when it was held outside Rochester NY.  The men in attendance far exceeded the women in attendance... it wasn't even close.   Yes women often attended but usually with guys, you hardly ever saw a group of women there together without guys.  

 

Another move they made that weakened a loyal fan base was them moving the event out of Western NY after they built up a solid fan base over ~40 years.  It was a big annual event and golfers in the region looked forward to it.   Yeah I get it the big sponsor dropped out, but the fans attendance was always very strong.  I've since heard the attendance after the move (to where ever it is now, I don't care anymore) is weak by comparison.   My family and friends used to follow the women on tour, but since moving out of the region hardly anyone talks about women's Pro golf.     Sure Western NY isn't a huge market but it was a loyal market.  Not sure if they've pulled similar moves elsewhere but if they have I wouldn't know because I don't follow the LPGA anymore. 

[GwrxMod]

Topic cleaned up, warnings issued. Keep it civil or take it to PM.  

[4bees]

27 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

"Saucy but not productive" ---Man you sound like my Ex describing my performance.

 

A couple of comments i will make:

 

-I have posted this before in regards to allegations or implications of sexism between mens and womens sports. it would be a LOT easier if women actually watched other women play sports. At the end of the day men watch a ton more sports than women do, and they typically watch men. When women watch sports, they tend to also watch men ( i guarantee you more women watch the Super Bowl or the NBA finals than the WNBA finals). Women need to watch more women's sports. I have many female friends that i work with or manage, i have never once heard a woman talk about how she can't wait to watch the LPGA or WNBA later that night. I don't believe that simply putting it on NBC at primetime is going to convince women to watch other women play sports. It might help, but it won't make the difference. They used to air WNBA games on NBC and the ratings were terrible.

 

-You know what women DO watch? Reality TV...They listen to music etc...This is why Taylor Swift is worth 500M and the Kardashians are worth hundreds of millions. There are several examples of very succesful women, who got rich because women supported them...just in things other than sports. Women will make other women succesful if they watch. Currently they don't

 

FWIW i have a daughter and want her to achieve great things, of course....I'm just trying to be realistic here. Some of this is market driven. Should men watch more women's sports? Maybe....But it's not like we're gonna force them too

 

Women who are pushing for equal pay etc---Do your part and WATCH games. Don't just watch the super bowl with your boyfriend, tell him to watch the LPGA with you. Are women really doing that?

thanks for a productive comment.  and LMAO to the ex describing....

 

I completely agree with the women not watching women sports.  lets be honest, the majority of people watching the LPGA are old men or former NCAA/LPGA members.  Very seldom do I recall any women I know talking about golf, let alone ANY woman sports.

 

I am realistic, I think this should be something to discuss at least in the near future.  Times are greatly changing.  I am not pushing for women to do everything that men do in sports.  Not by any means.  And this has more so little to do with my daughter than it does with my true feelings towards mens and womens golf.  

 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by 4bees

[2bGood]

As has been pointed out there is no such thing as the 'Men's' PGA tour. In fact I am not aware of any Men's only tour. The Korn Ferry, Euro Tour, and PGA are all open for women to play.  Because of this women players actually have more tours they are eligible to play on than Men.

 

If you did merge I am not really sure how you account for different tees. The PGA has players with and average driving distances of 84 yards between 1 and 195th. You would have ladies hitting farther than some men, so it does not seem fair they would play shorter tees and it would seem silly to have players tee off from different tees based on swing speed. 

Edited October 4, 2021 by 2bGood

[KBong]

I've said it before many times....as noted above...women themselves are to blame for the lack of exposure on the LPGA.

Women are 1/2 the population.

The majority of LPGA fans are male.

 

Golf itself is male dominated.

With so many Asian golfers here in Van City....I will say that there is a near 50/50 mix of Korean female golfers as Korean male golfers...at least in my observations....Koreans truly are addicted to golf.

 

There are very few regular/frequent female WRX members/participants....I don't think there's a female WRX member with 5000+ posts...I could be wrong.

[KBong]

23 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

By Asian golfers in Oz, I guess you mean on golf trips from their homes in Japan, China etc? If so, not many, Oz is too expensive vs other Asian alternatives.

 

No.

My question is .....are there a lot of Asian OZ residents who play a lot of golf at your local courses?

 

There are many many courses here with Asian golfers....many times the dominant demographic on the tee sheets.

[ThinkingPlus]

36 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

As has been point out there is no such thing as the 'Men's' PGA tour. In fact I am not aware of any Men's only tour. The Korn Ferry, Euro Tour, and PGA are all open for women to play.  Because of this women players actually have more tours they are eligible to play on.

 

If you did merge I am not really sure how you account for different tees. The PGA has players with and average driving distance the 84 yards difference between 1 and 195th. You would have ladies hitting farther than some men, so it does not seem fair they would play shorter tees and it would seem silly to have players tee off from different tees based on swing speed. 

You mean 50 yards, right?  A quick check shows 2021 driving average for the 195th player to be ~275 yards.  BDC led 2021 at just less than 324 yards.  BTW, women's leader for 2021 is Anne Van Damme at 292 yards with the top ten women only beating the 195th man.  Just sayin.

[MagicClassic407]

23 minutes ago, KBong said:

There are very few regular/frequent female WRX members/participants....I don't think there's a female WRX member with 5000+ posts...I could be wrong.

 

We're too busy doing other things. 🥴

[2bGood]

28 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

You mean 50 yards, right?  A quick check shows 2021 driving average for the 195th player to be ~275 yards.  BDC led 2021 at just less than 324 yards.  BTW, women's leader for 2021 is Anne Van Damme at 292 yards with the top ten women only beating the 195th man.  Just sayin.

I pulled the 2022 stats:

 

1. Cameron Champ - 339.5

195. Greg Sonnier - 257.3

 

Yes this will change as the season goes on.

 

The point is still the same though - some men drive it way further than other men but all are expected to compete from the same tees. If you were going to have everyone compete together I don't think it makes sense for some competitors to get player a shorter course then others are we going to also make the PGA a net competition and get handicaps involved? 

Edited October 4, 2021 by 2bGood