Sony Open 2022

[bladehunter]

16 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Well that wasn't the smartest play. If you are laying up short then lay up. I am guessing he thinks he can draw 3W better, but the shot on the 72nd hole was not close to a draw swing.  On the playoff hole, he should've hit hybrid to really lay up or driver to get maximum benefit from a good swing.  Playing 3W again just meant a good shot that finished left of the bunker would still leave a longer approach shot than Hideki where Henley probably loses or another ball in the bunker where once again Henley loses.  Just bad strategy.

Pretty good example of a guy who hits it mostly straight with modern clubs , on a course that requires alot of curves.  Laying up as you said , or hitting driver farther up into the Rough was the play.  But even so , it’s beyond me why a guy carrying a 3 hybrid doesn’t blast it from that bunker ?  It WILL launch quicker than his 5 iron.  Which is what he hit out.  And the lip was not even in the picture.  All that and he has a left hand and back stop with the bleachers. It’s a real head scratcher.  
 

Especially knowing Hidekis ball striking record with a 3 wood off the deck.  Worst shot he could hit from there was a miss left off the grandstand.  He’s be pitching across the green on his 3rd if he did that.  So you knew birdie was a requirement. Par would  lose 90 % of the time.   It’s simple match Play at that point.  

Edited January 17, 2022 by bladehunter

[Holy Moses]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

But a flip lob wedge is miles easier than a sand wedge.  

He had 80 yards. That is a flip lob wedge.

 

The problem was not his second shot. Hideki made eagle and Henley wasn’t eagling. The problem was the drive.

[dropkicked]

Hidecki, going "beast-mode" to close was great!

 

Henley takes his bloody time hitting his shots.

 

Henley on the 13th hole, used his wood to tamp down the rough behind his ball.. pretty blatant to my eye, considering he had no chance of digging it out with a wood... He went so far as to hold it down and ask his caddie to have a look.. 

[bladehunter]

54 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

He had 80 yards. That is a flip lob wedge.

 

The problem was not his second shot. Hideki made eagle and Henley wasn’t eagling. The problem was the drive.

But he hit before he knew what hidekis outcome was. He basically planned for par and hoped for birdie.  Vs planning to make birdie and hoping not to make par.  You’re right. Birdie loses. But. If Henley puts the ball on the green.  Does it pressure his opponent into missing ?  Has happened a million times. Can’t say impossible 

 

80 yards isn’t a flip lob for Henley. He hit a 3/4 ish sand wedge.  By flip I mean 25-40 yards or so .  He had 260 ish to front edges. Running up 3 hybrid from  that isn’t a stretch.  Just a wide open approach with no Trouble except rough.  No water. No OB.  Nothing. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by bladehunter

[Ronnie Mundt]

9 hours ago, dropkicked said:

Hidecki, going "beast-mode" to close was great!

 

Henley takes his bloody time hitting his shots.

 

Henley on the 13th hole, used his wood to tamp down the rough behind his ball.. pretty blatant to my eye, considering he had no chance of digging it out with a wood... He went so far as to hold it down and ask his caddie to have a look.. 

said this earlier. Only player I saw after watching hours and hours this weekend of this tournament. He would sit there with three different clubs, a hybrid and two irons, pat the grass down repeatedly then chop the iron. I don’t know if that is normal for him, but it took forever, was annoyingly slow and looked very advantageous.

[drbonesvt]

HM 3w 277 pin , 177mph BS , 💥

[Holy Moses]

8 minutes ago, drbonesvt said:

HM 3w 277 pin , 177mph BS , 💥

Holy Moses!

[Titleist99]

19 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Pretty good example of a guy who hits it mostly straight with modern clubs , on a course that requires alot of curves.  Laying up as you said , or hitting driver farther up into the Rough was the play.  But even so , it’s beyond me why a guy carrying a 3 hybrid doesn’t blast it from that bunker ?  It WILL launch quicker than his 5 iron.  Which is what he hit out.  And the lip was not even in the picture.  All that and he has a left hand and back stop with the bleachers. It’s a real head scratcher.  
 

Especially knowing Hidekis ball striking record with a 3 wood off the deck.  Worst shot he could hit from there was a miss left off the grandstand.  He’s be pitching across the green on his 3rd if he did that.  So you knew birdie was a requirement. Par would  lose 90 % of the time.   It’s simple match Play at that point.  

As Lee Trevino once said:  and I'm paraphrasing (You'd be surprised at how many guys go blank out there under pressure......

[PhlashPhace]

19 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Pretty good example of a guy who hits it mostly straight with modern clubs , on a course that requires alot of curves.  Laying up as you said , or hitting driver farther up into the Rough was the play.  But even so , it’s beyond me why a guy carrying a 3 hybrid doesn’t blast it from that bunker ?  It WILL launch quicker than his 5 iron.  Which is what he hit out.  And the lip was not even in the picture.  All that and he has a left hand and back stop with the bleachers. It’s a real head scratcher.  
 

Especially knowing Hidekis ball striking record with a 3 wood off the deck.  Worst shot he could hit from there was a miss left off the grandstand.  He’s be pitching across the green on his 3rd if he did that.  So you knew birdie was a requirement. Par would  lose 90 % of the time.   It’s simple match Play at that point.  

I remember an interview with Tiger when he was talking about studying the leaderboard towards the end of a tournament and figuring out what each player was going to make.  He makes adjustments based on what everyone in striking distance is going to shoot on the back nine which is like advanced calculus compared to what Henley faced.  He couldn't get home but he should've known he needed to abandon his game plan and get it close enough for a pitch that would at least scare the hole because Hideki was making 4 at worst from where he was.

[PhlashPhace]

1 minute ago, Titleist99 said:

As Lee Trevino once said:  and I'm paraphrasing (You'd be surprised at how many guys go blank out there under pressure......

That's what caddies are for.

[me05501]

Hideki's three wood in the playoff was awe-inspiring, but the shot that won it for him was the drive on 18 in regulation. He had to make a move, and he came out of his shoes to cut that corner. That ball could have gone a long way into a lot of bad places, but he squared it up and put the pressure right on Henley. 

[Titleist99]

9 hours ago, Ronnie Mundt said:

said this earlier. Only player I saw after watching hours and hours this weekend of this tournament. He would sit there with three different clubs, a hybrid and two irons, pat the grass down repeatedly then chop the iron. I don’t know if that is normal for him, but it took forever, was annoyingly slow and looked very advantageous.

I observe the same ting except I said that he was trying to pull a Gary Player .......pat the rough down with a wood several times and then hit an iron........all touring pros do it though.

[bladehunter]

7 minutes ago, PhlashPhace said:

I remember an interview with Tiger when he was talking about studying the leaderboard towards the end of a tournament and figuring out what each player was going to make.  He makes adjustments based on what everyone in striking distance is going to shoot on the back nine which is like advanced calculus compared to what Henley faced.  He couldn't get home but he should've known he needed to abandon his game plan and get it close enough for a pitch that would at least scare the hole because Hideki was making 4 at worst from where he was.

Yep.  It seems like common sense  to me , hideki is standing there with 3 wood in hand. Chomping at the bit for his turn.  He’s showing you what he will do ….   You have to play a shot to combat his best result.  

[Titleist99]

7 minutes ago, PhlashPhace said:

That's what caddies are for.

99% of the players listen to the caddy then do what they feel is comfortable.....

The caddy has never hit a golf shot.

[PhlashPhace]

Just now, Titleist99 said:

99% of the players listen to the caddy then do what they feel is comfortable.....

The caddy has never hit a golf shot.

I know they don't but their job is to slow their player down especially when things are going sideways.

[me05501]

It was interesting to watch the caddy and Henley working together during the back nine and through the playoff.

 

Both times Henley was in the bunker on 18, the player and caddy disagreed on what club to hit and settled on a compromise. From the TV perspective it seemed like they were equally involved/invested in those decisions, which is probably the wrong dynamic. 

 

In the playoff when the caddy suggested the 4 iron and Henley wanted the 6 they decided to split the difference and he hit 5 iron.

 

In that situation the caddy should probably endorse the 6 strongly and make the player feel like it's a great decision. This is even more true after having the same kind of discussion in regulation and winding up with a par. 

 

It's easy to imagine that Henley was still thinking about that over his wedge into 18 in the playoff. He may have ended up at an uncomfortable number due to using the 5 iron over the 6. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by me05501

[ThinkingPlus]

11 minutes ago, me05501 said:

It was interesting to watch the caddy and Henley working together during the back nine and through the playoff.

 

Both times Henley was in the bunker on 18, the player and caddy disagreed on what club to hit and settled on a compromise. From the TV perspective it seemed like they were equally involved/invested in those decisions, which is probably the wrong dynamic. 

 

In the playoff when the caddy suggested the 4 iron and Henley wanted the 6 they decided to split the difference and he hit 5 iron.

 

In that situation the caddy should probably endorse the 6 strongly and make the player feel like it's a great decision. This is even more true after having the same kind of discussion in regulation and winding up with a par. 

 

It's easy to imagine that Henley was still thinking about that over his wedge into 18 in the playoff. He may have ended up at an uncomfortable number due to using the 5 iron over the 6. 

It was also interesting that the caddie wanted the aggressive play and the player was being conservative.  Sorta opposite of what you usually see.  Lack of confidence?  Under appreciation of opponent's capability?  Just odd.

[me05501]

10 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

It was also interesting that the caddie wanted the aggressive play and the player was being conservative.  Sorta opposite of what you usually see.  Lack of confidence?  Under appreciation of opponent's capability?  Just odd.

 

It definitely makes you wonder how they'd managed the final round together, and whether there was a turning point where the pressure was coming on and the interactions changed. 

 

There wasn't a ton going on during that back nine on Sunday so we heard a few of their interactions before crunch time. I remember thinking that both caddy and player were talking through each shot quite a bit which seemed interesting with a lead on Sunday. 

[ThinkingPlus]

1 minute ago, me05501 said:

 

It definitely makes you wonder how they'd managed the final round together, and whether there was a turning point where the pressure was coming on and the interactions changed. 

 

There wasn't a ton going on during that back nine on Sunday so we heard a few of their interactions before crunch time. I remember thinking that both caddy and player were talking through each shot quite a bit which seemed interesting with a lead on Sunday. 

They may talk over shots like that all the time.  Some players seem to need validation or help with their decisions.  I don't really understand it, but I have never had a caddie.  I wouldn't know what to do with one.

[Paddy_2_Iron]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

It was interesting to watch the caddy and Henley working together during the back nine and through the playoff.

 

Both times Henley was in the bunker on 18, the player and caddy disagreed on what club to hit and settled on a compromise. From the TV perspective it seemed like they were equally involved/invested in those decisions, which is probably the wrong dynamic. 

 

In the playoff when the caddy suggested the 4 iron and Henley wanted the 6 they decided to split the difference and he hit 5 iron.

 

In that situation the caddy should probably endorse the 6 strongly and make the player feel like it's a great decision. This is even more true after having the same kind of discussion in regulation and winding up with a par. 

 

It's easy to imagine that Henley was still thinking about that over his wedge into 18 in the playoff. He may have ended up at an uncomfortable number due to using the 5 iron over the 6. 

 

Henley needs a new Caddy. 

 

Back 9 par 3 the wind was blowing in their face and he (Caddy) vehemently was saying the wind was behind him.  The announcers were basically trying to talk (yell) to Russell through the TV saying don't listen to him.  Henley eventually disagreed with his caddy and clubbed up to a 6 iron (which was absolutely the right call).  Caddy finally ceded and encouraged him, but these are pro caddies he should of be let go immediately after that gaffe.  

 

What was the caddy thinking telling his player the wind was behind when Russell was literally throwing grass up and it was blowing pass them on the tee box.  Ridiculous.  

Edited January 18, 2022 by Paddy_2_Iron

[me05501]

I don't think losing a 5 stroke lead over the back nine on Sunday can be blamed entirely on the caddy, but if it was already a shaky partnership I can see it being the last straw. None of us know whether that's the case. 

 

The two bigger factors in the outcome were A) Matsuyama's great play to force the tie and B) how Henley responded to that pressure. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by me05501

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

It was interesting to watch the caddy and Henley working together during the back nine and through the playoff.

 

Both times Henley was in the bunker on 18, the player and caddy disagreed on what club to hit and settled on a compromise. From the TV perspective it seemed like they were equally involved/invested in those decisions, which is probably the wrong dynamic. 

 

In the playoff when the caddy suggested the 4 iron and Henley wanted the 6 they decided to split the difference and he hit 5 iron.

 

In that situation the caddy should probably endorse the 6 strongly and make the player feel like it's a great decision. This is even more true after having the same kind of discussion in regulation and winding up with a par. 

 

It's easy to imagine that Henley was still thinking about that over his wedge into 18 in the playoff. He may have ended up at an uncomfortable number due to using the 5 iron over the 6. 

Exactly......the caddys job is to re-enforce what the player is thinking, not to dictate or sow doubt. IMO

[PhlashPhace]

44 minutes ago, me05501 said:

I don't think losing a 5 stroke lead over the back nine on Sunday can be blamed entirely on the caddy, but if it was already a shaky partnership I can see it being the last straw. None of us know whether that's the case. 

 

The two bigger factors in the outcome were A) Matsuyama's great play to force the tie and B) how Henley responded to that pressure. 

Mostly B.  This was a pretty big choke job.  -24 the first 63 holes and +1 on the last 9.  Henley really doesn't like 18 apparently.  He eagled once and parred or bogied it the other four times he played it.  For someone as long as him that's not too good on the second easiest hole on the course.  That just shows the fine line these guys walk.  If he birdies it one out of three times he wins by one.

[me05501]

Just now, PhlashPhace said:

Mostly B.  This was a pretty big choke job.  -24 the first 63 holes and +1 on the last 9.  Henley really doesn't like 18 apparently.  He eagled once and parred or bogied it the other four times he played it.  For someone as long as him that's not too good on the second easiest hole on the course.  That just shows the fine line these guys walk.  If he birdies it one out of three times he wins by one.

 

I noticed that Henley and Matsuyama were both setting up WAY over to the right edge of the tee box on 18. Clearly it's a hole that favors a draw but neither of them really shaped it there. Seems like a time when having a tight draw in your toolbox would be very helpful. Likely there's something about the design of the hole that made them choose to try to squeeze a straight shot through the corner instead. Hard to see everything on TV. 

[aenemated]

3 hours ago, me05501 said:

Hideki's three wood in the playoff was awe-inspiring, but the shot that won it for him was the drive on 18 in regulation. He had to make a move, and he came out of his shoes to cut that corner. That ball could have gone a long way into a lot of bad places, but he squared it up and put the pressure right on Henley. 

 

Yup, I said the same thing. The 3W was rad but that tee shot was - from a playing to win perspective - more rad. He clearly figured Henley for a birdie so he played it like he knew he'd probably need an eagle to stay in it. And he was almost right - I thought Henley's birdie putt was in the whole way.

 

And I'm with @bladehunter - in a playoff, you know your opponent is gonna have an eagle look, why not just man up and go for it? It's not like it was regulation where a double bogey is gonna cost you a couple hundred grand. 

 

Hideki played to win and that's why he won it. 

[me05501]

10 minutes ago, aenemated said:

 

Yup, I said the same thing. The 3W was rad but that tee shot was - from a playing to win perspective - more rad. He clearly figured Henley for a birdie so he played it like he knew he'd probably need an eagle to stay in it. And he was almost right - I thought Henley's birdie putt was in the whole way.

 

And I'm with @bladehunter - in a playoff, you know your opponent is gonna have an eagle look, why not just man up and go for it? It's not like it was regulation where a double bogey is gonna cost you a couple hundred grand. 

 

Hideki played to win and that's why he won it. 

 

Agree 100%. 

 

I wonder if the language barrier between Team Matsuyama and basically everyone else at the tournament starts to become at advantage at times when maximum focus is called for.

 

I'm certainly not trying to be xenophobic. It just seems like it might be a little easier to bear down and ignore the distractions around you when you're somewhat isolated from small talk and other distractions. 

[bladehunter]

3 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

They may talk over shots like that all the time.  Some players seem to need validation or help with their decisions.  I don't really understand it, but I have never had a caddie.  I wouldn't know what to do with one.

I have a pal that I play a lot with.  He and I club together similar distances etc. and he’s a very good player.  We walk and play together and I’ve caught us both at different times caddying for the other guy.  Usually on days when one of us is struggling.  We just have an uncanny knack for motivating the other.   We both analyze and vocalize the decision making progress the same.  Very much like watching Jordan and Mikey , or web and Paul … we both talk a lot in the process.  Also why were a great pairing for any partners matches.  We haven’t spoke to this.  But it opened my eyes to what kind of a caddy would work for me.  It’s truly unfair to pair us together in any team setting.  
 

For me a caddy discussion for a successful relationship on course would go like this.  Always discuss it. High success rate of agreement.  But if I want to do something different, shut up and  get behind It and confirm it for the moment….Then. If I screw it up. Don’t be afraid to let me hear it.  I do not mind negative feedback as long as it’s warranted. Just be ready to stand by it. Lol.  But I’d do so with the stated understanding that Im Loyal to a fault and expect the same.  A relationship like that won’t work if constantly under the threat of firing.  That’s just a weak persons way to control.  Make good hires.  Then ride them until there’s no choice.  Or to success. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by bladehunter

[CUBuffaloes]

3 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

Agree 100%. 

 

I wonder if the language barrier between Team Matsuyama and basically everyone else at the tournament starts to become at advantage at times when maximum focus is called for.

 

I'm certainly not trying to be xenophobic. It just seems like it might be a little easier to bear down and ignore the distractions around you when you're somewhat isolated from small talk and other distractions. 

 

There were a lot of visitors from Japan following that final group. A good chunk of visitors here are from Japan and Hideki is a big draw. 

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

 

I noticed that Henley and Matsuyama were both setting up WAY over to the right edge of the tee box on 18. Clearly it's a hole that favors a draw but neither of them really shaped it there. Seems like a time when having a tight draw in your toolbox would be very helpful. Likely there's something about the design of the hole that made them choose to try to squeeze a straight shot through the corner instead. Hard to see everything on TV. 

As a guy who sees a fade but will hit draws when it calls for it , I’ve always went to the right side of the box.  Which is counter intuitive for a draw.  Most hookers will go to the left side.  Because when they miss it goes left.  When I miss with a draw swing it goes right. Or straight.  So the play is on the right side of the box.  That’s what they were doing.  Leaving room to miss.  Which Henley did each time.  

[the bishop]

4 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

The caddy has never hit a golf shot.

Begs to differ...