LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[Ghost of Snead]

2 hours ago, mahonie said:

OWGR are massively skewed in favour of PGA Tour events so I'm not sure whether its relevant in this argument.

 

Iirc, Matt Wallace won 3 times on the Euro Tour in 2018 and picked up less ranking points than a PGA Tour journeyman (cannot remember who) who finished 3rd in a mid-ranking PGA Tour event. Opening that closed shop has got to be good for world golf surely?

 

Have a look at the strength of field calculations and let us know if the rankings are skewed. And who is on the OWGR ranking committee ?  

[Ghost of Snead]

25 minutes ago, lowheel said:

Chubby Chandler calling someone else arrogant... priceless.

 

Are you disputing anything Chubby said about Norman ? Chubby's not running the SGL exhibitions. 

[tatertot]

1 hour ago, Buzzkill said:

Just wondering if you folks are running out of steam yet on this topic, lol!

Not if you're getting the right enticements.

[lowheel]

14 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Are you disputing anything Chubby said about Norman ? Chubby's not running the SGL exhibitions. 

You do know Chubby represents players on LIV right? You do know how many players have fired Chubby with accusations of misappropriating funds and and high commissions right?

Yes i am disputing what he says. Norman isnt the issue. Everything hes said publicly has been spot on and i dont care for the guy. The Norman hate is the equivalent of nickleback hate, just trendy. Everything we know now is they approached the PGA Tour multiple times to work something out and they were stood up. Monahan is the issue not Norman. Its easily fixable but its not Normans ego stopping that from happening but Monahans. After the Fedex cup and presidents cup we will see the new landscape.

Edited July 23, 2022 by lowheel

[grm24]

2 hours ago, mahonie said:

OWGR are massively skewed in favour of PGA Tour events so I'm not sure whether its relevant in this argument.

 

Iirc, Matt Wallace won 3 times on the Euro Tour in 2018 and picked up less ranking points than a PGA Tour journeyman (cannot remember who) who finished 3rd in a mid-ranking PGA Tour event.

Matt Wallace collected a total of 70 OWGR ranking points for his 3 wins in 2018. There is no professional golf event in which the third place finisher received 70 points for one event. The majors, which award the most ranking points, only award 60 world ranking points for finishing solo second, 40 for solo third.

[Creedo77]

45 minutes ago, idrive said:

 

 

 

Okay, then... what happened with this one?

Already mentioned it….the two players are Xander and Cantlay. Cantlay was offered 80 million and turned it down. His reps came back with a deal that included Xander (idk why he needed to be included). Im not sure what the outcome is or will be but this is what was mentioned in front of me with a couple players and caddies. 
 

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Creedo77

[tatertot]

7 minutes ago, grm24 said:

Matt Wallace collected a total of 70 OWGR ranking points for his 3 wins in 2018. There is no professional golf event in which the third place finisher received 70 points for one event. The majors, which award the most ranking points, only award 60 world ranking points for finishing solo second, 40 for solo third.

Shhhh ... this is not the place for facts.

[Creedo77]

46 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Did the tour player tell you that Spieth, Zalatoris and Scheffler were also defecting ? 

 

And Cantlay turned down $80 million b/c he needed Xander to hold his hand and jump as well ?  Funny ...

 

Even if the other Aussies were to defect, the only one who would be missed is Cam. And I'd be surprised if Cam jumps when he is already making bank and would be playing silly golf when he would still be playing against the best on the PGA Tour. 

 

But you're just the messenger ...

 

I didn’t take notes while I was listening. Just passing on info

Edited July 23, 2022 by Creedo77

[ChipStrokes]

41 minutes ago, tatertot said:

Not if you're getting the right enticements.

you actually think LIV is paying people to post on their behalf?

[Tbone107]

1 hour ago, lowheel said:

 

It’s fine if you don’t like the format that LIV has, as a former KFT participant I like the change up from the norm and difference of play. But if you don’t like you have every right to not watch and stick to the normal PGA set up with the 3M, John Deere etc. 

 

 

But if you use the “blood money” excuse for denigrating the LIV tour, then you need to watch this and really asses if you should be knocking down these players for taking the money. 

[tiderider]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Have a look at the strength of field calculations and let us know if the rankings are skewed. And who is on the OWGR ranking committee ?  

the R&A, AGNC, USGA and DPT, all of whom have been bamboozled by the pgat, that organization that is so stupid that it couldn't see a way to stand up to a trillion dollar investment fund and the 3 yo that was given keys to the checkbook ... c'mon bro ... pgat controls everything in pro golf ... 

[jdl]

21 hours ago, theodoreb said:

Liv’s success comes down to tv viewership in the long run. Golf has not grown in the traditional format for years. TV viewership int he sport has also not grown as well. Greg knows he will abandon the traditional fans to create a new league with new fans.  Greg is going after new fans and new viewers with a new format. The traditional fans and wrx’ers who say they won’t watch are not the target. They are never going to like it, but the existing fans aren’t growing the sport or the viewership with the traditional pga format. Same stagnant sport with same stagnant viewers. Look at the sports they are emulating. You say that’s not golf, but viewership has doubled for soccer, cricket, F1, etc. Golf not so much. Maybe it’s BS that they say they are growing the game, but the traditional pga tour way has not grown the game either. A number of PGA players also feel that this is a new way forward.  Actually makes perfect sense.

Someone tell CBS, NBC and ESPN because they just forked over a bunch of money.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/pga-tour-announces-nine-year-media-deals-with-cbs-nbc-and-espn

[tiderider]

2 hours ago, NormanFan said:

 

The TOUR doesn't need to contract.  Those places still make money from having TOUR events, fans enjoy having an event in their backyard, and a host of charities benefit as well.  Not every event on the schedule has be a major, A class event.

 

And the guys that are fighting to keep their card want these events.  Reducing events mean fewer chances for those guys to play.

if only they could see phil and henrik putting up their 78s ... GLUED to the tv, i tells ya ... GLUED ... 

 

[Creedo77]

12 minutes ago, tiderider said:

the R&A, AGNC, USGA and DPT, all of whom have been bamboozled by the pgat, that organization that is so stupid that it couldn't see a way to stand up to a trillion dollar investment fund and the 3 yo that was given keys to the checkbook ... c'mon bro ... pgat controls everything in pro golf ... 

I thought that monihan and the r&a would be replaced in the process of whether to give out owgr points to LIV because of a conflict of interest 

[NoFancyUsername.]

1 hour ago, Tbone107 said:

It’s fine if you don’t like the format that LIV has, as a former KFT participant I like the change up from the norm and difference of play. But if you don’t like you have every right to not watch and stick to the normal PGA set up with the 3M, John Deere etc. 

 

 

But if you use the “blood money” excuse for denigrating the LIV tour, then you need to watch this and really asses if you should be knocking down these players for taking the money. 

Brilliant 👏 

[Nixhex524]

1 hour ago, lowheel said:

You do know Chubby represents players on LIV right? You do know how many players have fired Chubby with accusations of misappropriating funds and and high commissions right?

Yes i am disputing what he says. Norman isnt the issue. Everything hes said publicly has been spot on and i dont care for the guy. The Norman hate is the equivalent of nickleback hate, just trendy. Everything we know now is they approached the PGA Tour multiple times to work something out and they were stood up. Monahan is the issue not Norman. Its easily fixable but its not Normans ego stopping that from happening but Monahans. After the Fedex cup and presidents cup we will see the new landscape.

 

Wait, are you saying we don't ALL hate Nickelback??

[mahonie]

2 hours ago, grm24 said:

Matt Wallace collected a total of 70 OWGR ranking points for his 3 wins in 2018. There is no professional golf event in which the third place finisher received 70 points for one event. The majors, which award the most ranking points, only award 60 world ranking points for finishing solo second, 40 for solo third.

I may have misquoted for which I apologize. However, there was a fair amount of negative coverage in the golf press this side of the pond at the time around the subject. The way the points are allocated (based on 'strength of field') makes it almost impossible for anyone playing exclusively on the European Tour to break into the top 50 (and get access to the big bucks tournaments) which I guess is my point. With the advent of LIV, the OWGR will become more diluted as more players switch.

[Ghost of Snead]

3 hours ago, lowheel said:

You do know Chubby represents players on LIV right? You do know how many players have fired Chubby with accusations of misappropriating funds and and high commissions right?

Yes i am disputing what he says. Norman isnt the issue. Everything hes said publicly has been spot on and i dont care for the guy. The Norman hate is the equivalent of nickleback hate, just trendy. Everything we know now is they approached the PGA Tour multiple times to work something out and they were stood up. Monahan is the issue not Norman. Its easily fixable but its not Normans ego stopping that from happening but Monahans. After the Fedex cup and presidents cup we will see the new landscape.

 

Prove it - Norman's only goal is to destroy the PGA Tour as revenge from them shutting him down in 1994. You don't think folks talk and Monahan hasn't known Norman's intentions for a long time. You don't think Monahan speaks to Finchem ? Why do you think Tiger won't give Norman the time of day ? If Norman doesn't want to ruin the PGA Tour, why is he paying exorbitant sums of money to play in the SGL ? Why has he scheduled 14 events for next year ? Norman was and is the issue. 

      

Edited July 24, 2022 by Ghost of Snead

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Kokrak dropped by sponsor. 

[NoFancyUsername.]

20 minutes ago, mahonie said:

I may have misquoted for which I apologize. However, there was a fair amount of negative coverage in the golf press this side of the pond at the time around the subject. The way the points are allocated (based on 'strength of field') makes it almost impossible for anyone playing exclusively on the European Tour to break into the top 50 (and get access to the big bucks tournaments) which I guess is my point. With the advent of LIV, the OWGR will become more diluted as more players switch.

So the PGAT is a monopoly 🤔 

[bekgolf]

1 hour ago, Tbone107 said:

It’s fine if you don’t like the format that LIV has, as a former KFT participant I like the change up from the norm and difference of play. But if you don’t like you have every right to not watch and stick to the normal PGA set up with the 3M, John Deere etc. 

 

 

But if you use the “blood money” excuse for denigrating the LIV tour, then you need to watch this and really asses if you should be knocking down these players for taking the money. 

 

There is that.  However, most pro liv arguments bring up the blood money and whataboutisms.  It's become a talking point with them, I wonder why.

 

It's not an interesting format (liv).  Not taking time out of my day to watch, not spending money on anything advertised in conjunction with liv.  No sponsors means not self sustaining.  I'd rather watch the senior scramble at my course. 

 

Shoot, I'd be more inclined to buy a club one of them was hitting well vs a paid pro.  Butt, that's me.

[Ghost of Snead]

25 minutes ago, mahonie said:

I may have misquoted for which I apologize. However, there was a fair amount of negative coverage in the golf press this side of the pond at the time around the subject. The way the points are allocated (based on 'strength of field') makes it almost impossible for anyone playing exclusively on the European Tour to break into the top 50 (and get access to the big bucks tournaments) which I guess is my point. With the advent of LIV, the OWGR will become more diluted as more players switch.

 

This also would hold true for the PGA Tour, the effect dependent on who defects.

 

[golfer07840]

2 hours ago, Creedo77 said:

I didn’t take notes while I was listening. Just passing on info

 

[Blue Surfer]

10 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

That’s the opposite of the reality.

 

Without US protection, the Saudi Iran proxy wars become much hotter and may spill to direct conflict. The alternative “big brothers” would be Russia or China and both are aligned already with Iran. 
 

In tandem with necessary political alliance with the west, there’s only so much they can push an isolated cultural existence hence the sportswashing. 

 

The investments in Soccer F1 and golf are exactly because they “care” and need to “impress” the West. 
 

MBS, relatively speaking, is pushing reforms, unprecedented to the kingdom, toward more secular policy. 
 

So, it’s essential that the investments yield positive political/media returns. 
 

 

 

The moderators will not let me post anything, over and over they get rejected--we'll just have to leave it at I'm right and you're wrong. The Sauds don't care what anyone thinks of them. Especially you. If you want to know my impeccable reasoning, ask the moderators. 

[bighitlama]

7 hours ago, Creedo77 said:

I sat across from a player on the KFT last week at lunch who told me all of this. A good friend of his is currently playing LIV 

 

I think it's just a matter of time before LIV has their own World Rankings.   If I were them, I would base it primarily on how much money a player wins.   Obviously that would be self serving, but if OWGR doesn't want to play fair why should they.   Then we can have two different World Rankings that are flawed.

[Gxgolfer]

10 minutes ago, Blue Surfer said:

 

The moderators will not let me post anything, over and over they get rejected--we'll just have to leave it at I'm right and you're wrong. The Sauds don't care what anyone thinks of them. Especially you. If you want to know my impeccable reasoning, ask the moderators. 

When extreme political views are injected or profanity, or attacking the moderation is included in posts, then it will not be approved.  

 

Your recourse is to use the personal message system vs trying to push an extreme position.  This is a warning since you don't seem to understand why your posts are not getting approved vs others.  This is not a debatable decision.

 

This guidance also applies to all posts in this thread as well.  One may write a lengthy posts but then they fail at the end by inserting profanity or espousing a profane thought or attacking a poster or subject.

[bighitlama]

9 hours ago, Nixhex524 said:

 

Yes, the problem in this thread is the "LIV supporters".....  LOL

 

This is getting a little crazy now when just simply just switching leagues immediately diminishes your talent and skill.  I just hope this is one of those moments where humor is lost over text conversation...

 

 

 

Well you have to understand, if a professional golfer has an average score of 70 when playing 4 rounds for 1.5 mm the very next week if he only plays 3 rounds for 5mm his average score goes to 85... that's just the way it works... everyone knows that.

Edited July 24, 2022 by bighitlama

[bekgolf]

6 minutes ago, bighitlama said:

 

I think it's just a matter of time before LIV has their own World Rankings.   If I were them, I would base it primarily on how much money a player wins.   Obviously that would be self serving, but if OWGR doesn't want to play fair why should they.   Then we can have two different World Rankings that are flawed.

 

If I have this line of thought correct it would be that the highest paid players (liv for now) get all the spots for the majors.  Skill is not a requirement for pay with liv, their highest paid players haven't been breaking 80.

 

How about a merit based system?  Just like we have now.  Win and you get points.  Not enough points then you can do a Monday qualifier.  Keep money out of who gets to play in a major, make it about skill.

[bighitlama]

5 hours ago, Stevens24 said:

I think a lot want to see how the first season plays out. Greg saying the field is locked in for next year is the biggest BS I have heard in a while. He is simply telling players that they decide who and when you will join. 

 

I think you are exactly right.   I think he is being inundated with requests and has had to adopt a don't call us we'll call you policy.    There is no question he will make room for anyone he wants.

[idrive]

1 hour ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Kokrak dropped by sponsor. 

 

Missed it if it's been mentioned, Mutual of Omaha has dropped Stenson.