LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[aus10KC]

7 hours ago, theodoreb said:

Exactly why the owgr will be a joke. You can’t give points to one group and not the other and say the group with more points is better. You either need to give points to all and see where the Liv guys shake out.

 

How is it fair to 1 group that plays in a competitive tour, 72 holes, large fields, qualifiers ect, whereas the 2nd group is only 48 players, 54 holes, no cut, no qualifiers ect ie exhibition tour? 

 

And I'm sure you'll mention other tours are 54 holes, that is very popular among LIV defenders. Those events that are 54 holes are developmental tours, and while they are 54 holes, they have large fields, qualifiers ect. Is LIV a developmental tour?

 

OWGR has a standard that is set for a reason, to determine the best golfers in championship golf. It wasn't just made up to keep LIV out, it has been around way before LIV was in existence. 

[Titleist99]

7 hours ago, theodoreb said:

They will be in good standing with the Liv tour, oh yeah, you don’t like that one so we won’t count it.

As of now it's an Invitational Series of Exhibitions......

[capking]

13 hours ago, oikos1 said:

One thing is obvious in all of the banter.  The LIV Tour is being more successful than most thought at this point.

 

And don't look now...

 

https://money.yahoo.com/greg-norman-sees-womens-liv-161848072.html

 

"The CEO of the Saudi-backed golf series is confident a women's LIV Golf league is in the future.

"One hundred percent. Drop the mic on that," Norman said when asked if he envisioned a women's LIV league."

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/super-golf-league-updates-2022

 

"LPGA commissioner Mollie Marcoux Samaan told The Times of London that she would “take the call” if LIV Golf CEO Greg Norman ever wanted to talk to her about the LPGA."

The LPGA has a way shorter schedule and could easily add 10, events. 

[leezer99]

7 hours ago, theodoreb said:

Before liv got going. I know a few folks in the biz and those networks are looking for ways to pair down some of those commitments with a “strength of field clause”

 

Watch what happens when you institute a 'strength of field' rating live before your eyes on the Junior Golf Scoreboard (JGS).  That rating has gotten so twisted that the owners of JGS are looking to sell before it blows up in their face.

[bscinstnct]

6 hours ago, Hankshank said:

Think this touches on something maybe important. What is the entertainment of tour golf? For sure, seeing guys making good golf shots, but way more the drama. The importance for the players of making results, to win. If you happened to see the last day of the DP tour Cazoo event on Hillside, you could really see how the play mattered, and Ramsay was absolutely overjoyed winning. That is a big part in what makes me pay for golf channels.
 

I think LIV has a real challenge making drama an ingredient. It should really hurt for a player not to win when in contention. Just a show for the money… that will Imho take away the interest in the sport, and if so, one wonder if the sheiks still see an interest in shuffling money on top players. 

 

Thank you Hank for a simple take on what gives meaning to entertainment.

 

Like with a movie, it’s not just stars and action that make a great movie like Die Hard. You need the story line and drama for the audience to get into it.

 

Liv be like how Deniro and Pacino “phoning it in” for some movies. 🤣

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by bscinstnct

[capking]

16 hours ago, bladehunter said:

And that maybe so.  I haven’t read that book or those remarks.  But. 
 

im pretty open to any and all tactics in business. To me it’s war of survival.  No friends there.   But that’s my personal opinion.  Doesn’t mean it’s correct.  And I haven’t seen the tactics you mention so I reserve the right to be wrong or change my opinion .  
 

For me greg just sets off the personal alarm bells.  Like shallow Hal the movie.  He’s a pretty grim character in my eyes.  And I thought this well before any Saudi talk.  His opinion on changes to the game now only backed that up for me. 

Lol what a bizarre reference 

[Ghost of Snead]

6 hours ago, lowheel said:

This kind of over the top exaggerating and generalizing is the problem. Find one post/poster here that wants the PGA tour to fold. The PGA tour will be just fine and in the end the better for it. There are multiple tours around the world all playing at once with no issues. When the adults in charge of the PGA finally realize LIV is literally just another tour with deeper pockets offering a different style of golf, theyll realize the prudent thing to do is to negotiate with their players and LIV and workout an agreement. Ernie Els had a great suggestion about the PGA working something out with LIV and the euro tour to schedule events that dont conflict with bigger events on both those tours and maybe more in the winter etc.... those are productive ideas. Its not the end of the world as many here are pretending it is. Im a huge fan of PGA tour golf but have a ton of suggestions to make it better. LIV needs a ton of work and tweaking as well. The more money available to players the more young people will gravitate to the sport.

 

Newsflash - Greg Norman doesn't want to work anything out with the PGA Tour. 

[aus10KC]

6 hours ago, lowheel said:

This kind of over the top exaggerating and generalizing is the problem. Find one post/poster here that wants the PGA tour to fold. The PGA tour will be just fine and in the end the better for it. There are multiple tours around the world all playing at once with no issues. When the adults in charge of the PGA finally realize LIV is literally just another tour with deeper pockets offering a different style of golf, theyll realize the prudent thing to do is to negotiate with their players and LIV and workout an agreement. Ernie Els had a great suggestion about the PGA working something out with LIV and the euro tour to schedule events that dont conflict with bigger events on both those tours and maybe more in the winter etc.... those are productive ideas. Its not the end of the world as many here are pretending it is. Im a huge fan of PGA tour golf but have a ton of suggestions to make it better. LIV needs a ton of work and tweaking as well. The more money available to players the more young people will gravitate to the sport.

 

That takes both sides to work together, LIV says they want to work with the PGAT. But from what I've found that is just lip service and they don't really mean that. Can LIV really have 14 events in the offseason? LIV scheduled events against the ''weaker' PGAT events, then went on Social Media criticizing those PGAT events and hyping up their own events up with a field that cost them probably a billion dollars. 

 

PGAT season is too long, causes players to skip events and/or having to play too many events.  Looks like they are changing that to no wrap around season and the fall will be $$$ events for the top 50 (earned) and competitive play for 70 - 150 for tour cards. Competition is compelling! 

[jdl]

10 minutes ago, aus10KC said:

 

That takes both sides to work together, LIV says they want to work with the PGAT. But from what I've found that is just lip service and they don't really mean that. Can LIV really have 14 events in the offseason? LIV scheduled events against the ''weaker' PGAT events, then went on Social Media criticizing those PGAT events and hyping up their own events up with a field that cost them probably a billion dollars. 

 

PGAT season is too long, causes players to skip events and/or having to play too many events.  Looks like they are changing that to no wrap around season and the fall will be $$$ events for the top 50 (earned) and competitive play for 70 - 150 for tour cards. Competition is compelling! 

The length of the season debate is something we're seeing in many sports these days, i.e. the differing desire of the top players/teams vs the needs of the masses. If you're a rookie or journeyman type, you love that wrap-around option. A chance to play against weaker fields and get off to a good start, take the pressure off of earning enough points to keep that card. For the top guys they want to take some time off and relax instead. They want to be able to focus on the bigger purse events and majors instead.

 

Similar happening in college football where the top schools are consolidating into fewer conferences, trying to get more of the $$ and better match-ups for those elite programs. NBA and MLB seasons are "too long" as well but the owners/leagues need the games to make money from ticket sales and TV revenues.

 

Trying to balance this seemingly inevitable clash of needs is a fine line to walk.

[Titleist99]

6 hours ago, Hankshank said:

Think this touches on something maybe important. What is the entertainment of tour golf? For sure, seeing guys making good golf shots, but way more the drama. The importance for the players of making results, to win. If you happened to see the last day of the DP tour Cazoo event on Hillside, you could really see how the play mattered, and Ramsay was absolutely overjoyed winning. That is a big part in what makes me pay for golf channels.
 

I think LIV has a real challenge making drama an ingredient. It should really hurt for a player not to win when in contention. Just a show for the money… that will Imho take away the interest in the sport, and if so, one wonder if the sheiks still see an interest in shuffling money on top players. 

I agree 100%.....As we've seen with all the golf tournaments this week......you certainly don't need big name golfers to create drama when something else is on the line besides money. You have to have added incentive to hold the viewers.......

      Like.....fighting for tour cards.....getting in other tournaments.....etc.

[jls667]

9 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Newsflash - Greg Norman doesn't want to work anything out with the PGA Tour. 

 

Bingo. Everyone needs to stop acting like the PGAT are petty teenagers and Norman is the mature adult. Norman started this whole thing to take down the PGAT. He has zero intention of working with the PGAT but is willing to say he is because he knows damn well that the PGAT won't actually take him up on it. It helps him look like the good guy. 

 

It has been established, for ages, that Norman has a big axe to grind with the PGAT. If you don't believe me, read his book. People who know him personally have also said the same and you cannot simultaneously be willing to cooperate with someone with their best interest in mind if you also want to destroy them. The PGAT knows this so they won't work with him and they shouldn't work with him. It's a trap.

[Ghost of Snead]

24 minutes ago, aus10KC said:

 

That takes both sides to work together, LIV says they want to work with the PGAT. But from what I've found that is just lip service and they don't really mean that. Can LIV really have 14 events in the offseason? LIV scheduled events against the ''weaker' PGAT events, then went on Social Media criticizing those PGAT events and hyping up their own events up with a field that cost them probably a billion dollars. 

 

PGAT season is too long, causes players to skip events and/or having to play too many events.  Looks like they are changing that to no wrap around season and the fall will be $$$ events for the top 50 (earned) and competitive play for 70 - 150 for tour cards. Competition is compelling! 

 

Sounds like we'll have top 125 at the end of the tournament year + 30 Korn Ferry grads + 5 DP World Tour awardees with cards for the upcoming year. No PGA Tour Q-school., only KF.

[Titleist99]

15 minutes ago, jdl said:

The length of the season debate is something we're seeing in many sports these days, i.e. the differing desire of the top players/teams vs the needs of the masses. If you're a rookie or journeyman type, you love that wrap-around option. A chance to play against weaker fields and get off to a good start, take the pressure off of earning enough points to keep that card. For the top guys they want to take some time off and relax instead. They want to be able to focus on the bigger purse events and majors instead.

 

Similar happening in college football where the top schools are consolidating into fewer conferences, trying to get more of the $$ and better match-ups for those elite programs. NBA and MLB seasons are "too long" as well but the owners/leagues need the games to make money from ticket sales and TV revenues.

 

Trying to balance this seemingly inevitable clash of needs is a fine line to walk.

And that's why the Commissioners of said Leagues make the big bucks.......

[bladehunter]

38 minutes ago, capking said:

Lol what a bizarre reference 

But it painted the picture - didn’t it ?  😂

[Titleist99]

37 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Newsflash - Greg Norman doesn't want to work anything out with the PGA Tour. 

Correct.....and it's foolish to think otherwise......

[Danielson]

10 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

I agree 100%.....As we've seen with all the golf tournaments this week......you certainly don't need big name golfers to create drama when something else is on the line besides money. You have to have added incentive to hold the viewers.......

      Like.....fighting for tour cards.....getting in other tournaments.....etc.

 

In theory you don't need those big name golfers but in actuality you do. I think the tour is just too big to tell stories, so 90% of the players on tour are just faceless placeholders to most fans. To make what's becoming the new hot comparison, in F1 you have 20 drivers and a few fringe development drivers. People can keep track of that many guys, and learn their stories a bit. When Mick Schumacher has a good race and scores points, people understand what that means for him. When Greyson Sigg comes in T7 in the 3M open, what does that mean? Nobody knows, and most people have no idea who Greyson Sigg even is. The few times the PGA tour does highlight these types of players, they milk it so hard that it becomes inauthentic (ex: Mike Visacki). The Euro tour puts out a lot of fun videos that show players personalities, and the PGA does nothing of the sort.

 

They need to either revamp the tour to shrink it, or become much much more proficient at highlighting their lesser players so that when this point of the season comes around there's still a point to watching. Right now there's almost nobody playing that the average fan would know.

[tiderider]

4 hours ago, the bishop said:

I'm thinking more Rebel Yell.  The name is appropriate and the regular bottling is garbage.  Now Rebel Yell 10y.o. BiB, SiB is something altogether different.

finally ... someone cultured ... ❤️

[NoFancyUsername.]

5 hours ago, Short Pete said:

I don't know in detail what the PGA Tour does with their money. What I know ist that they organize THE Tour, they organize feeder tours, they support local charities with millions of dollars every year. They provide hundreds of professional players with an opportunity to play and earn a living. The best make it to the PGA Tour, if they play well they can make an awful lot of money there. If you keep your card for a few years you participate of the pension fund. But you have to deliver. And the players can choose which events they want to play, as long as they are playing enough of them.

 

LIV organizes a golf circus without any real new ideas. They even bought some clowns (Feherty and McCord). They disrupt the existing infrastructure without any ambition to build something better. They simply buy players and make them employees with an obscene salary. The employees cannot choose which of the events they play. The organizers don't care what they shoot, they paid them the biggest chunk beforehand. You can't qualify for this jamboree, Greg "invites" you with millions. Nobody cares how you show up, look at Mickelson. They simply try to buy star power away from the established system and pay the rich even more money. Norman finally can show the PGA Tour who has the longest wiener, sadly it's not his own, which makes this "tour" even more pathetic.

The PGAT gets its money from here.... just announced 

 

[CDM]

Wondering why everyone has issues with where the money comes from as it relates to the PGA and not the LPGA?   

 

6 of the biggest events money wise for the LPGA is from the same group.  The players have sponsorship from them, etc. Yet no one says anything about that?   Why........?

 

The more interesting part is the LPGA and what seems like a lot of the players are all interested in talking to them before something goes sideways like it has on the PGAT side.

 

   “working together is always better than a fractured organization.”

 

Edit: the comment above is from the LPGA Comish, sorry should of stated that

Edited July 25, 2022 by CDM

[Nixhex524]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Since the Saudis are attempting to "sportwash" their reputation by paying exorbitant sums of money to professional golfers, it is not a big leap at all to say they are paying social media bots to extol their virtues and the the virtues of the LIV Tour on social media. I'm not accusing anyone here individually here but if the shoe fits, wear it. 

 

And before someone says bots are doing the same for the PGA Tour, explain how the PGA Tour who can't even seem to pay their players enough is willing to pay folks to promote and support a Tour that doesn't need to be propped up. 

    

    

 

Meh, they can pay them more, they have chosen not to.  The PGAT has opted to try and build their own brand off the backs of the players for years.  Paying them well, but until LIV came along, not well enough I guess.... If there ARE bots here, they a few and far between, though it shouldn't matter because there have been good points raised on BOTH sides of this issue that could create some great discussion for most people here if they could take their own feelings out of it.  I don't want to see the PGAT fold either, this should be a huge kick in the pants for the PGAT to start doing some things better for the players.  

[aus10KC]

19 minutes ago, Danielson said:

 

 

 

They need to either revamp the tour to shrink it, or become much much more proficient at highlighting their lesser players so that when this point of the season comes around there's still a point to watching. Right now there's almost nobody playing that the average fan would know.

 

Looking forward to the Netflix series, put on by the same folks that do Drive to Survive. Especially with all the LIV stuff going on and may of the participants went on to LIV. 

[Short Pete]

32 minutes ago, NoFancyUsername. said:

The PGAT gets its money from here.... just announced 

 

Contrary to many others I don't care where the money comes from. I critizise how they let Norman use it simply to do harm to the existing structure of tournament golf. He ruins their image, the idea of Sportswashing will backfire. They don't do anything good for the sport or the society, they allow their CEO to do what he wants. And he wants vendetta.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Short Pete

[Ghost of Snead]

44 minutes ago, Nixhex524 said:

 

Meh, they can pay them more, they have chosen not to.  The PGAT has opted to try and build their own brand off the backs of the players for years.  Paying them well, but until LIV came along, not well enough I guess.... If there ARE bots here, they a few and far between, though it shouldn't matter because there have been good points raised on BOTH sides of this issue that could create some great discussion for most people here if they could take their own feelings out of it.  I don't want to see the PGAT fold either, this should be a huge kick in the pants for the PGAT to start doing some things better for the players.  

 

The top players, past and present (including Norman) have been able to build their own brands because of the opportunities afforded them by the PGA Tour and avenues to sponsors. I have no issue with increased purses and a few more high $ no-cut events with only the top 70-75 players involved. I also have no issue with a minimum payout for all PGA Tour card holders that enter a tournament so that reasonable expenses are covered should they not make the cut. Perhaps the PGA Tour could implement performance-based payouts for leaders in relevant statistical categories and career bonus incentives for reaching a certain level of Tour wins. 

 

I do have an issue with guaranteed contracts in a sport where meritocracy should dictate how well you are compensated. 

    

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Ghost of Snead

[CDM]

53 minutes ago, NoFancyUsername. said:

The PGAT gets its money from here.... just announced 

 

 

Oooooo here comes the  "Owned by"  Vs "Doing Business" with flaming   🤣

[bscinstnct]

The google trends data worldwide for liv is very poor. But still a few days left for it to reflect some interest in the event. 
 

But the lack of interest is also clear in tons of tickets to the NJ liv event for $3, $4, $5

 

That’s obviously basically  free admission. 
 

https://www.stubhub.com/liv-golf-invitational-series-bedminster-tickets-7-29-2022/event/150304259/?quantity=1

 

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 3-m&q=Liv golf

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by bscinstnct

[leezer99]

With a stroke of genius, LIV Golf has listed Charles Howell III under the I's.

[aus10KC]

9 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

Amazing, tons of tickets to the NJ liv event for $3, $4, $5

 

That’s obviously basics free admission. 
 

The google trends data worldwide is very poor as well. But still a few days for it to reflect some interest in the event. 
 

https://www.stubhub.com/liv-golf-invitational-series-bedminster-tickets-7-29-2022/event/150304259/?quantity=1&listingId=5395628619&listingQty=
 

 

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 3-m&q=Liv golf

 

 

That is funny, I almost thought about trying to get a free ticket off a player then selling on secondary market. Good to know my efforts would have been wasted.

[ChipStrokes]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Newsflash - Greg Norman doesn't want to work anything out with the PGA Tour. 

 

1 hour ago, jls667 said:

Bingo. Everyone needs to stop acting like the PGAT are petty teenagers and Norman is the mature adult.

 

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

Correct.....and it's foolish to think otherwise......

the PGA tour lobbied our government to arrange a sit down with the PIF decision makers over LIV

 

when our government reached out, on the tour’s behalf, and the saudis agreed to come to the table, the PGA tour said “no thanks” and declined the meeting. 

 

if i’m LIV, the PIF, and GN, that squashed any chance of let’s play nice and all get along. 

 

the tour ran to mommy and daddy for protection and when they got exactly what they wanted they went back to their room and pouted. 

[woodriff]

21 hours ago, Hocus_Pocus said:

 

LIV will have a highly experienced and well-respected team in the broadcast booth with Jerry Foltz, Arlo White and Dom Boulet and the addition of Gary McCord, with David Feherty's on-course commentary. Gary McCord and David Feherty are valued for their playing experience and tag-team humor while Charles Barkley can add a bit of humor and commentary from an amateur's perspective. Wonderful choices for an excellent team! 👍   

 

 

  

At this point LIV is loading up for next year. This year exhibition. Maybe next year 72 holes. No too sure what happens with the team thing. 

[Ghost of Snead]

16 minutes ago, woodriff said:

At this point LIV is loading up for next year. This year exhibition. Maybe next year 72 holes. No too sure what happens with the team thing. 

 

Say it ain't so - a move to 72-hole stroke events with a cut even ? Like the PGA Tour ?