LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[Ghost of Snead]

58 minutes ago, PhilsFanDrew said:

 

It's more than just the TV telecasts, at least to me.  When I first got bit with the golf bug 12 years ago I couldn't get enough of watching the PGA Tour.  But over the last 3-4 years I pretty much only tune in for Majors or flagship events.  I have no interest in tournaments like Fortinet, Sanderson Farms, 3M, Mayakoba, etc.  The season is too long and there are too many of the same venues that aren't worthy of just being gifted an annual PGA Tour event. Sorry I don't see why TPC Deere Run, TPC River Highland, Sedgefield, etc get to host a tournament every year.  

 

Your opinion ... and it's probably not shared by those 200 PGA Tour members trying to earn playing privileges for the next season. And surely not by John Deere, Wyndham, Travelers etc who have the cash to back the tournaments. 

 

[Ghost of Snead]

13 hours ago, Nixhex524 said:

 

I'd be willing to bet that kind of money would turn a lot of people here into hypocrites... but that's JMO.

 

 

 

So I guess the LIV Tour is full of hypocrites 

[ALIF]

6 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

The PGA Tour doesn't need saving - do the TV telecasts need some work ? Maybe ..

Exactly. My only problem with the PGA tour is that their telecasts need significant improvement. Now maybe the players that are members of the tour may have a problem with it, but as of your just the broadcasting is my gripe. To be honest, I didn't watch any of the L IV golf this weekend. I did watch the PGA Tour broadcast on TiVo. I played golf Friday and Saturday so I didn't have time to sit around and watch during the day. I never do anyway. I only watch it on TiVo because I don't like the broadcasting.

[drumdude96]

10 minutes ago, PorkChopExpress said:

 

Kids are so transparent "You Old" hahahahaha

Yup

 

Same reason all the country clubs are trying to get younger folks in (and they've been trying for a long time), the older folks aren't gonna be around and the percentage of their kids/grandkids joining the same club is shrinking more and more.

 

Still wondering what will happen with the LIV startup lol

Will it be like Facebook and keep growing (cause everyone hates them hahaha), or will it be like Theranos - hahahaha

 

Yep, I joined a country club last year, and the "old boys" are mostly d-bags and take forever to play a round of golf.  Younger folks just don't want to be around old people like that.  It has nothing to do with money.  I want to actually be able to enjoy my round and the people I'm playing with.  I went back to my muni course this year, and I'm much happier.  Plenty of old guys there too, but they're good people, not d-bags.  Country clubs are gonna be hurting in the future.

[PorkChopExpress]

6 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

The PGA Tour doesn't need saving - do the TV telecasts need some work ? Maybe ..

 

Would disagree and say yeah it does. If it wasn't for the pandemic, golf itself was shrinking. Almost could say if it wasn't for the boom, LIV may not have even got off the ground like it has. 

Almost like a perfect storm

 

56 minutes ago, TM4me said:

I'll bet one of my foursome (Tony Finau, Will Zalatoris, Cameron Young and Max Homa) win a major before any current LIV player wins (another) one.

 

Would take that bet, two of them haven't even won on Tour yet lol

Finau can't putt in majors and Homa isn't ready if he's still giddy playing with Tiger. 

[drumdude96]

33 minutes ago, idrive said:

 

No I'm not going to waste my time looking it up but just glancing at the guys on liv, I don't remember any of those guys winning a tourny the couple of years. Only a couple have a win in the last 3-4 years.

 

Over the last 4 years Stenson has made approx. 20% of the cuts.  Wins his 1st time out at Bedmin. To me that just points out how weak the field is. DJ is the only one that could win on the PGAT, including the Dairy Queen.

No, Stenson just played some damn good golf, as did several other guys this event.  The course was playing pretty tough, and very long.  Unlike the ridiculously easy course in Detroit for the PGAT this past week.  Tony ain't shooting 25 under or whatever at Bedminster, and neither is anybody else.

[Titleist99]

40 minutes ago, idrive said:

 

No I'm not going to waste my time looking it up but just glancing at the guys on liv, I don't remember any of those guys winning a tourny the couple of years. Only a couple have a win in the last 3-4 years.

 

Over the last 4 years Stenson has made approx. 20% of the cuts.  Wins his 1st time out at Bedmin. To me that just points out how weak the field is. DJ is the only one that could win on the PGAT, including the Dairy Queen.

yep, and one was a 52 year old man.......

[bscinstnct]

24 minutes ago, drumdude96 said:

No, Stenson just played some damn good golf, as did several other guys this event.  The course was playing pretty tough, and very long.  Unlike the ridiculously easy course in Detroit for the PGAT this past week.  Tony ain't shooting 25 under or whatever at Bedminster, and neither is anybody else.

 

You think Stenson would have won at the Rocket?

 

 

 

 

He hasn’t won a pga or euro tour event in since 2017 ; )

 

 

 

.

Edited August 1, 2022 by bscinstnct

[PorkChopExpress]

12 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

yep, and one was a 52 year old man.......

 

Still have no idea how he didn't implode at the Ocean course on the back nine 🙂

[Ghost of Snead]

22 minutes ago, drumdude96 said:

Yep, I joined a country club last year, and the "old boys" are mostly d-bags and take forever to play a round of golf.  Younger folks just don't want to be around old people like that.  It has nothing to do with money.  I want to actually be able to enjoy my round and the people I'm playing with.  I went back to my muni course this year, and I'm much happier.  Plenty of old guys there too, but they're good people, not d-bags.  Country clubs are gonna be hurting in the future.

 

Anecdotal and certainly not true at the clubs I have belonged. Enjoy the 5-6 hours rounds at the muni. 

[TM4me]

29 minutes ago, PorkChopExpress said:

 

Would take that bet, two of them haven't even won on Tour yet lol

Finau can't putt in majors and Homa isn't ready if he's still giddy playing with Tiger. 

I guess we will see next year, if LIV players are still permitted to play majors.

Hit & giggle isn't great preparation for big boy golf. 

[drumdude96]

45 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Anecdotal and certainly not true at the clubs I have belonged. Enjoy the 5-6 hours rounds at the muni. 

My muni is in a rural town with a population of about 1200. It's almost never really busy. The only times it takes 5-6 hours for me to play are when I'm practicing and hitting several balls per shot. Which I do quite often. It's really nice to be able to do that on the course instead of a driving range. That tells you how busy the place is, or in this case, isn't. We get enough business to stay open, and that's good enough.

Edited August 1, 2022 by drumdude96

[Krt22]

2 hours ago, drumdude96 said:

No, Stenson just played some damn good golf, as did several other guys this event.  The course was playing pretty tough, and very long.  Unlike the ridiculously easy course in Detroit for the PGAT this past week.  Tony ain't shooting 25 under or whatever at Bedminster, and neither is anybody else.

And Stensen isn't shooting 25 under in detroit either. He has't had a single top 10 all year and his best finish of T14 he had a partner to help carry him

 

Pretty silly to compare the scoring in two very different tournaments on two very different courses.  When you are playing a "tournament" with house money, the competition and pressure are very different. 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Krt22

[cardia10]

47 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

You think Stenson would have won at the Rocket?

 

 

 

 

He hasn’t won a pga or euro tour event in since 2017 ; )

 

 

 

.

If he played like that at a much tougher course, he would have taken the PGA 2nd string for a ride at the Rocket Musk Open.

[oikos1]

5 hours ago, Shortgamemagic said:

That’s why I like golf, it’s different. Why does everything “have” to be modernized? I hate the mashed potatoes doosh yelling at tournaments and that’s what LIV wants. To me, it’s stupid and not entertaining at all. 

 

It's quite obvious that's what the PGA Tour wants, and has, as "I hate mashed potato guy" has been a constant refrain in multiple threads at WRX for years and years. 

 

 

 

 

[subrew]

I didn't catch the yardages for all three days, but Bedminster was playing 7,720yds and I think they said the third day was 7,680yds or something like that.  They also played it as a Par 71, instead of a Par 72.  At Par 72 off the black tees, it is a 77.7 rating. 

 

Rocket was setup at 7,370yds as a Par 72.  

 

 

 

LIV actually seems to be trying to setup courses fairly tough.  One of the pin positions on Saturday was crazy.  3-4' right of the flag, and the ball was rolling off the green, and sometimes thru the rough and into the water. 

 

The first event in London they played it at Par 70 instead of 72.   Then people complained when Charls only won at -7.

 

  

[oikos1]

3 hours ago, drumdude96 said:

After watching part of each of the first 3 events, I'm on the fence about LIV's format. I think some changes are in order and would definitely help them get OWGR points. I have some suggestions:

The events need to be 72 holes. They should start with 6 players on each team and do a shotgun start for the first two days. After the first two rounds, the worst two players from each team are cut, and the field goes back to 48 guys for the weekend. Saturday and Sunday, no shotgun start. Everyone begins their rounds on hole #1 just like every other tour. The shotgun would be great for speeding things up the first couple days while narrowing down the field, but a traditional format on the weekends would be less "all over the place" and I think would help build suspense and drama for the viewers. Plus it would give Feherty time to actually inject his wit and sense of humor into what's going on. I love Feherty, but he's not really getting to do what he does best when the shots are coming in rapid-fire like they are with the current format.

They need to have qualifiers for each event. There should be at least 6 spots (if not 12) for guys to make their way into each event. That in combination with the cut would make it much more merit-based than what they're doing now. After the cut, those 48 guys reap the benefits of the tournament purse. You can pay the guys who get cut 10-15 grand so they at least earn something for the week, but the top 48 guys are in on the big payday.

If they were to implement those changes, it would definitely help them get OWGR points, and I think it would improve the overall product for the viewers and be seen as much less of a "clown show".

Agree.  I think if they go with the team concept they will have to expand the roster.  Maybe some players don't play some weeks, just like other team sports.  Injuries, consistency, a player on "fire", making cuts could all be considerations for Captain's to decide who is playing that week. 

 

And if 72 holes is the kicker for OWGR points, I would think the LIV Tour would eventually make that change.  In fact, that could be the setup that Norman and LIV planned all along.  Force the OWGR to make an official statement as to why the LIV Tour doesn't qualify for OWGR points and then make the required changes and voila, their in.

[PhilsFanDrew]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

You think Stenson would have won at the Rocket?

 

 

 

 

He hasn’t won a pga or euro tour event in since 2017 ; )

 

 

 

.

Probably not because you had to make a lot of birdies to win @ Rocket and at most other PGA Tour events.  At Bedminster you have to plot and be more strategic.  It played more like a major than the vast majority of other PGA Tour events do.  I don't like seeing pro's struggle to break par a la the contrived methods the USGA would take to trick out a US Open venue but I also don't want to see straight up bomb and gouge birdie fests either.  None of the 3 LIV courses played thus far favor that style and it seems like week in and week out on the PGA Tour it does lend itself to that.

 

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

You think Stenson would have won at the Rocket?

 

 

 

 

He hasn’t won a pga or euro tour event in since 2017 ; )

 

 

 

.

Stenson wouldn't have made the cut at the Rocket but he made the right choice in going to the Exhibition tour to beat some bums......Fools over there giving out free money....LOL!

[Titleist99]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Your opinion ... and it's probably not shared by those 200 PGA Tour members trying to earn playing privileges for the next season. And surely not by John Deere, Wyndham, Travelers etc who have the cash to back the tournaments. 

 

Well said......and his ignorance is no excuse for not knowing that those TPC courses are either owned or operated   by the PGATOUR.....

[mitchl]

2 hours ago, ALIF said:

Exactly. My only problem with the PGA tour is that their telecasts need significant improvement. Now maybe the players that are members of the tour may have a problem with it, but as of your just the broadcasting is my gripe. To be honest, I didn't watch any of the L IV golf this weekend. I did watch the PGA Tour broadcast on TiVo. I played golf Friday and Saturday so I didn't have time to sit around and watch during the day. I never do anyway. I only watch it on TiVo because I don't like the broadcasting.

are you just judging the tv broadcast?   Have you gone on ESPN+/Hulu or Paramount+ for the coverages there?   I tend to watch it that way for one if the featured groups, and there is usually 3-4 options on what you’re watching,   
the bad thing I think is that it is not consistent between networks what you’re going to see… that’s somewhat understandable for majors, but week in and week out, why is the PGA streams not on the same service.   But regardless, overall it is a better product than the haphazard LIV stream which looks like it is directed by a team of ADD chimps.

 

I don’t understand why for LIV there isn’t 12 streams covering 100% of that team, and then throwing in some outstanding shots by the rest of the field.   You’d think that if LIV wants to sell a team fir a billion dollars, there would be a way for viewers to focus on that team.   But the way it is now, I never see Phil or GMac, and if they do show a shot here or there is us over and done in seconds.     And why can I not go and see Phil’s entire round after the fact on the website?   Ok.  Well, maybe Stensons whole round.   Phil might not people seeing his.

Edited August 1, 2022 by mitchl

[So_Cal]

1 hour ago, drumdude96 said:

No, Stenson just played some damn good golf, as did several other guys this event.  The course was playing pretty tough, and very long.  Unlike the ridiculously easy course in Detroit for the PGAT this past week.  Tony ain't shooting 25 under or whatever at Bedminster, and neither is anybody else.

Are you kidding me?  Stenson wouldn’t have even been in the top 10.  He has been invisible since 2016.  Plus he just gave the middle finger to his homeland. 

[oikos1]

3 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

Here is David Hill, LIV consultant, former Fox Sports EVP, on the challenges of golf viewing demographics,

 

“How long do we have? Here’s the horrendous truth about golf,” Hill told “The Ourand and Marchand Sports Media Podcast” earlier this week. “The last figures I saw about golf, 50 percent of the television audience was 65+, which means they’re dead in 25 years. Seventy-eight percent was 50+. So what does that tell you? The audience is dying.”

 

https://golf.com/news/david-hill-liv-golf-horrendous-truth-charles-barkley/?amp=1

 

So, there is no chance to change the demographic that watches golf. There are too many far more appealing sports/entertainment options available. 
 

What LIV can do is capture as much of the younger end of the demographics (the 50 year olds just getting into watching) so they are the choice as the demographic continues to age. 
 

Im 54! And my thinking is that it’s all about the talent as far as drawing my interest. 
 

I watch majors for 4 days. I’ll watch Sat and Sunday for high profile events with top fields, Players, Fedex, and a handful of others. Otherwise, I really just might tune in a little on Sunday for a mediocre field and see if it’s interesting. 
 

So, far, LIV is miles from that top-field status but….
 

If LIV has 70% of the top-20, I’ll watch. Even with the guaranteed money. Because if you have all those “alphas”, they can’t help but gun for each other hard. And you have a chance to see some great golf. 
 

The format, graphics, announcers, are all meaningless to me. 
 

 

 

 

Lol.  I about spit my coffee out reading that quote. To borrow one of your colloquialisms,  PGA Tour Fans be like the walking dead...

 

[oikos1]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

So I guess the LIV Tour is full of hypocrites 

A wise gentlemen once said to me, in a moment of my own frustration, you can break down the essence of being human to the reality that we are all quite simply contradictions.

[bscinstnct]

3 hours ago, BottleCap said:

I guess this tells us there can be two distinct products for two distinct segments for people that are interested in watching this type of golf, Tour Golf.

 

I'm thinking the young ones may be more interested in the Good Good stuff.

 

If I were to forecast years out, I’d see

 

 

The PGA Tour maintaining dominance as far as top American players and events in the US.

 

But with LIV establishing as the leading international tour with particularly strong fields of Euro and Asian players.

 

I think LIV, as far as the US, would best be served making a deal with the pga tour to have two or three really big events here. With pga tour players being able to participate. Instead of trying to poach the best US players. 

Edited August 1, 2022 by bscinstnct

[BottleCap]

2 hours ago, PorkChopExpress said:

 

Would disagree and say yeah it does. If it wasn't for the pandemic, golf itself was shrinking. Almost could say if it wasn't for the boom, LIV may not have even got off the ground like it has. 

Almost like a perfect storm

 

The way LIV seems to be going I don't think they're going to be doing much better.

 

Things like bringing Feherty in and seeking a TV broadcast deal points to LIV having some dinosaurs in management.

 

I think they need to be adding social media stars to the broadcast and using those platforms more instead of just Youtube and Facebook...Facebook is going to be a turnoff for anyone under 60

[mitchl]

1 hour ago, oikos1 said:

Agree.  I think if they go with the team concept they will have to expand the roster.  Maybe some players don't play some weeks, just like other team sports.  Injuries, consistency, a player on "fire", making cuts could all be considerations for Captain's to decide who is playing that week. 

 

And if 72 holes is the kicker for OWGR points, I would think the LIV Tour would eventually make that change.  In fact, that could be the setup that Norman and LIV planned all along.  Force the OWGR to make an official statement as to why the LIV Tour doesn't qualify for OWGR points and then make the required changes and voila, their in.

there are other 54 hole events.   The issue is going to be much more about the closed field than the 54 holes.   There is a discount for the shorter tournament and the strength of field is also impacted by the limited players,   Most of the OWGR stuff is handled by the current calculations.   But just for inclusion, people are looking for an immediate decision, and the guys making the decision only meet so often and the statsisticians have to do their work too,   They can’t make any change for LIV without taking into account what impacts it ha on the dozens of other tours and hundreds of events.   When LIV is still setting what their whole format and tour is, how do they get a read on what to plan for.

 

during the British, some analysts said to expect a year or more before the ranking for LIV, and that would be take longer if LIV kept making changes…    
I still tend to think that July 2023, or Jan 2024 is the when we see LIV events start being ranked.

[Ghost of Snead]

2 hours ago, oikos1 said:

 

It's quite obvious that's what the PGA Tour wants, and has, as "I hate mashed potato guy" has been a constant refrain in multiple threads at WRX for years and years. 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, LIV already has the "Brooksies" going and "do it for the Saudi family" - if they want loud, they shouldn't mind any heckling. 

[freddi22cl]

Stenson has gone from not being able to make a cut on The PGA Tour to winning at The Circus  cashing in just over $4 mill

 

 Ryder Cup?...where? ...when?...who?

[subrew]

58 minutes ago, BottleCap said:

The way LIV seems to be going I don't think they're going to be doing much better.

 

Things like bringing Feherty in and seeking a TV broadcast deal points to LIV having some dinosaurs in management.

 

I think they need to be adding social media stars to the broadcast and using those platforms more instead of just Youtube and Facebook...Facebook is going to be a turnoff for anyone under 60

 

They are improving the social media presence before events, mostly with Troy Mullins joining players on the range.  I noticed she was even doing stuff 10 minutes prior to the shotgun start with a few of the guys in the final pairings.  But she tends to disappear a bit once the round begins.  I think she checked in once or twice mid round, but for 10-15 seconds.  

 

Would be fun to see some social media around the teams, during the proam/practice days.  Get Troy out there with the teams doing closest to the pin comps.  Straightest drives, long putts etc.  How does DJ and Reed play the same shot, given their different equipment and styles.  That's the kind of stuff that could be shot on Wed/Thurs, edited, and published in the week after during the downtime before events.  

 

I'm surprised they hadn't managed to lure away a well known YT golf person.  Someone who would shoot 10-30 minute videos highlighting the course, playing the Pros, trying to break 80.  Kind of a mixture of Shiels, Good Good, EAL etc.  Maybe they tried.