LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[BottleCap]

2 hours ago, Potatohead said:

the only reason the US feed of F1 doesn’t have commercials is because Mother’s paid enough to buy up all the spots to keep it commercial free. 

That’s not true at all, try again

[3 Putt Pete]

LIV is still an infant only a couple tournaments old and growing every week. Look how many players they have lost and LIV is only 4 tournament old. Im sure PGA Tour players love to play for "tradition" but the fact is they have families to feed and bills to pay. Missing cuts and not winning does not keep food on the table or keep the lights on. It costs them a lot of money every week. You're going to get more and more players bailing. Economy slipping into a recession,  sponsors are going to to thin out and prize pool will too. Days of Tiger Wood vs David Duval are over. Nobody cares about Cameron Young and Tony Finau. 

 

Jay has handled this poorly. He will be asked to resign before the dust clears. Thumping his chest and banning players isnt the answer. He needs to keep the players or in the end it will be just Jay and Rory shouting "LIV is bad!" at each other.

[jgonz69]

Some golfers cannot be bought regardless the amount thrown at them

 

[Ghost of Snead]

 

Rejected and then slammed @ St. Andrews 

   

Edited August 2, 2022 by Ghost of Snead

[CasualLie]

7 hours ago, subrew said:

I didn't catch the yardages for all three days, but Bedminster was playing 7,720yds and I think they said the third day was 7,680yds or something like that.  They also played it as a Par 71, instead of a Par 72.  At Par 72 off the black tees, it is a 77.7 rating. 

 

Rocket was setup at 7,370yds as a Par 72.  

 

 

 

LIV actually seems to be trying to setup courses fairly tough.  One of the pin positions on Saturday was crazy.  3-4' right of the flag, and the ball was rolling off the green, and sometimes thru the rough and into the water. 

 

The first event in London they played it at Par 70 instead of 72.   Then people complained when Charls only won at -7.

 

  

 

Oh. that explains it!  No wonder Phil is struggling.  And I thought it was just because he pretty much sucks at golf now and is just showing for the money, plus the added bonus people actually talk to him like he's cool.

[CasualLie]

6 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

If I were to forecast years out, I’d see

 

 

The PGA Tour maintaining dominance as far as top American players and events in the US.

 

But with LIV establishing as the leading international tour with particularly strong fields of Euro and Asian players.

 

I think LIV, as far as the US, would best be served making a deal with the pga tour to have two or three really big events here. With pga tour players being able to participate. Instead of trying to poach the best US players. 

 

Yes, and those two or three really big events can be called....wait for it....World Golf Championships or WGC for short!  Although Emperor Norman Invitationals has a better ring to it.

[oikos1]

4 hours ago, golfandfishing said:

I know there are betting lines currently available but I see two big issues with this:

 

1) how much is the general public willing to gamble on a player or players when it’s already pretty clear that the upfront money has negatively influenced most of the top player’s motivation and desire to win. 
 

2) we already know all of these players can be bought. 
 

 

LOL.  You mean like every other sport that has up front guaranteed money?

 

Might want to check on the NFL, NBA, MLB and most other pro sports.  Geez man, gamblers bet on fights that they know most likely are rigged.  Gamblers bet on anything and everything. 

 

If anyone thinks those two bullet points are going to hold back gamblers, I would bet they still don't believe the LIV Tour has even held an event yet.

 

 

 

[CasualLie]

2 hours ago, jgonz69 said:

Some golfers cannot be bought regardless the amount thrown at them

 

 

 

Pretty easy for Norman to talk nonsense. I'm calling b.s.  on the offer.  Unless of course the offer was handwritten on a notecard and left with the guard at TW's driveway.  But didn't Greg learn the first time Tiger doesn't read his notes???

[drbonesvt]

3 hours ago, drumdude96 said:

How much lower do you think the PGAT guys would have scored at Bedminster with that setup?  Honest question.  I thought the guys who finished in the top 5 played some really good golf.  I really don't think the PGAT guys would have done much better, if at all.  It was also nice to see Matthew Wolff have a good week for a change.  Hopefully he can gain some confidence from that. 

Wolf is unfortunately a paper tiger and weak, he would have folded under the pressure of the Rocket Mortage 

[Htk084]

5 hours ago, idrive said:

 

May I suggest you scratch Tony off your list.

 

There is NO WAY he's going.

 

Also, don't forget, GN said they were set for the year and for 2023 as well. Of course, that was before they signed 3-4 more fading "stars".  Greg wouldn't lie (again) would he?

That is the list like I said.  Now I agree I think Tony finau will not go.  But he was thinking about it

 

I think winning now twice in a row he will stay for sure.  But for now he’s a “maybe”

[oikos1]

37 minutes ago, drbonesvt said:

Wolf is unfortunately a paper tiger and weak, he would have folded under the pressure of the Rocket Mortage 

He won his first event at twenty years old and roughly within a month of turning pro on the PGA Tour while beating two future Major winners in DeChambeau and Morikawa.  He also has a second at a U.S. Open and a T-4 at the PGA Championship. 

 

So a player leaves the PGA Tour and all of a sudden they are weak?  Kid is figuring out life.

 

What is happening around here?  It's becoming incredibly bizarre.  WRX at it's finest.

[2bGood]

3 hours ago, 3 Putt Pete said:

LIV is still an infant only a couple tournaments old and growing every week. Look how many players they have lost and LIV is only 4 tournament old. Im sure PGA Tour players love to play for "tradition" but the fact is they have families to feed and bills to pay. Missing cuts and not winning does not keep food on the table or keep the lights on. It costs them a lot of money every week. You're going to get more and more players bailing. Economy slipping into a recession,  sponsors are going to to thin out and prize pool will too. Days of Tiger Wood vs David Duval are over. Nobody cares about Cameron Young and Tony Finau. 

 

Jay has handled this poorly. He will be asked to resign before the dust clears. Thumping his chest and banning players isnt the answer. He needs to keep the players or in the end it will be just Jay and Rory shouting "LIV is bad!" at each other.

 

Let's not pretend this about keeping food on the table or the lights on. This is about wether their kids are worth $50M or $20M.

[oikos1]

1 hour ago, 2bGood said:

 

Let's not pretend this about keeping food on the table or the lights on. This is about wether their kids are worth $50M or $20M.

For the Top players, yes, it's $50M vs $20M.  Or something like that.

 

"Average Earning on Tour

According to pgatour.com, the average PGA Tour player earned just under $1.5 million in 2021. That number spans from that year's money leader, Jon Rahm, who earned a cool $7,705,933 million, to the PGA Tour's 250th place earner, Parker McLachlin, who earned $6,090."

 

https://www.golflink.com/about_4582_golfer-paid.html

 

We don't have time to break it all down, but most certainly it's a safe bet that there are many more Parker McLachlin's than there are John Rahm's fighting for a card to play on the PGA Tour.

[capking]

7 hours ago, golfandfishing said:

I know there are betting lines currently available but I see two big issues with this:

 

1) how much is the general public willing to gamble on a player or players when it’s already pretty clear that the upfront money has negatively influenced most of the top player’s motivation and desire to win. 
 

2) we already know all of these players can be bought. 
 

 

1) Is this the same if Nike gives a player a huge endorsement contract? 
 

2) is this because of their shirts looking like a NASCAR car? 
 

[Valtiel]

3 hours ago, Htk084 said:

That is the list like I said.  Now I agree I think Tony finau will not go.  But he was thinking about it

 

I think winning now twice in a row he will stay for sure.  But for now he’s a “maybe”

Or it's one of those "pitch a couple complete game shutouts right before the trade deadline to crank up your value" kind of move. Tony has always had game though, it was just a matter of time. 
 

3 hours ago, oikos1 said:

He won his first event at twenty years old and roughly within a month of turning pro on the PGA Tour while beating two future Major winners in DeChambeau and Morikawa.  He also has a second at a U.S. Open and a T-4 at the PGA Championship. 

 

So a player leaves the PGA Tour and all of a sudden they are weak?  Kid is figuring out life.

 

What is happening around here?  It's becoming incredibly bizarre.  WRX at it's finest.

To deny that Wolff has mental toughness issues is to ignore pretty much everything that happened AFTER what you just mentioned, including his own words about dealing with burnout. He flew very high very fast and had all the lofty expectations thrown at him only to falter and then regress hard. I hope he recovers and has a long career, don't get me wrong, but he's been open about dealing with mental stuff. 

[the bishop]

3 hours ago, Htk084 said:

That is the list like I said.  Now I agree I think Tony finau will not go.  But he was thinking about it

 

I think winning now twice in a row he will stay for sure.  But for now he’s a “maybe”

[Short Pete]

7 hours ago, drumdude96 said:

Yep, whoever wins on the PGAT the week before the LIV event should get an invite, maybe even the top 2-3 guys.  Plus have a qualifier the week of to allow more guys to play their way in.  Then, if one of the PGAT guys finishes in the top 5 or 10 at LIV, they automatically get an invite to the next event.  If not, they gotta earn their way back. There needs to be reciprocity between the two tours.  I feel like LIV is being too exclusive, and the PGAT needs to get their heads outta their backsides and work with LIV before their brand is irreversibly damaged.  I would like to see probably 5 or 6 LIV events in the US, and the remaining events held all over the world.  The LIV events in the US should be scheduled so as not to interfere with the marquee PGAT tournaments, then like you said, LIV wouldn't have to poach the PGAT players, because the top guys don't play in the crappy events anyway.  It's definitely high time they started working together instead of trying to destroy each other.  Sadly, that's probably not going to happen.  Why can't we all just get along? 🤪

You don't get the intention of all of this. LIV wants to be exclusive. They want a field where the best players of the PGA Tour play. There's no interest in providing spaces where players can qualify and take spots in teams. That's why they the LIV players get boatloads of money, but are obligated to play in all the events. Imagine DJ, Reed, DeChambeau and Koepka getting a little rusty from the lack of competitive golf. Then Kalle Samooja and Adrian Meronk, two pretty good players currently playing on the DP World Tour, qualify for LIV events and dust up the field because they're on fire. LIV doesn't want that. If they wanted feeder events, they would have established them. They want their teams league, filled up with stars. Since Koepka's signing, there weren't too many stars anymore. If they want OWGR points they will have to alter almost everything in the existing format. They will have to establish feeder events, establish a meritocratic system, and risk that marquee names like Mickelson or Graeme MacDowell lose their playing privileges to the Turk Pettits and Kalle Samoojas of this world, simply because these guys play better. And this should be the hallmark of a good tour: The best players play there, and if they are not good enough, they cannot play. And yes, Henrik Stenson played reasonably well to win this thing. On 54 holes he played 3 wood and short iron at least 30 times, and made everything he looked at. Johnson made nothing on the greens, and Reed missed too many fairways. And if you look past 12th place at the LIV leaderboard you will find few names who can contend on a regular basis. There is just no depth to the field. And as I said in an older post, if you have to watch DJ, Reed and Gooch every time fighting the odd player running hot for this absurd amount of money and see Perez raking in 900.000$ for shooting 6 over because he's a nice guy, this schtick gets old real quick.

[Short Pete]

2 hours ago, oikos1 said:

For the Top players, yes, it's $50M vs $20M.  Or something like that.

 

"Average Earning on Tour

According to pgatour.com, the average PGA Tour player earned just under $1.5 million in 2021. That number spans from that year's money leader, Jon Rahm, who earned a cool $7,705,933 million, to the PGA Tour's 250th place earner, Parker McLachlin, who earned $6,090."

 

https://www.golflink.com/about_4582_golfer-paid.html

 

We don't have time to break it all down, but most certainly it's a safe bet that there are many more Parker McLachlin's than there are John Rahm's fighting for a card to play on the PGA Tour.

And that's exactly how it should be. Gary Woodland was 100th on last year's money list, he made almost 1.3 million bucks in prize money alone. If he goes halfway intelligent about it, that should leave him at least 600.000$ after expenses and taxes. That's a lot of dough for being the Number 100 of your profession on this tour. Or take Pat Perez: He scored two Top Tens in the 2021, missed 12 cuts, didn't even come remotely close to winning a tournament. He made 1.2 million. That's an awful lot of money for playing a game with a ball and a stick, if you ask me. And if Parker McLchlin wants to earn this kind of money he will have to qualify for the big show and perform there. That's a meritocratic system. The exact opposite of LIV. They buy the rich and make them even richer.

[Ghost of Snead]

4 hours ago, oikos1 said:

For the Top players, yes, it's $50M vs $20M.  Or something like that.

 

"Average Earning on Tour

According to pgatour.com, the average PGA Tour player earned just under $1.5 million in 2021. That number spans from that year's money leader, Jon Rahm, who earned a cool $7,705,933 million, to the PGA Tour's 250th place earner, Parker McLachlin, who earned $6,090."

 

https://www.golflink.com/about_4582_golfer-paid.html

 

We don't have time to break it all down, but most certainly it's a safe bet that there are many more Parker McLachlin's than there are John Rahm's fighting for a card to play on the PGA Tour.

 

All of the Parker McLachlin(s) are not being invited to LIV golf - play better or find a new career like many others that have tried and failed.

 

    

Edited August 2, 2022 by Ghost of Snead

[Dave230]

Tiger probably couldn’t be bought regardless because even since he was a teenager it was 100% about legacy and the history of the game. But also money means nothing if Tiger can’t even play the US Open and a regular TV event without a cart. How is he going to play 14 events on the LIV Tour? I imagine the $700 million offer would come with a minimum tournament appearance guarantee.

[bscinstnct]

10 hours ago, drumdude96 said:

Yep, whoever wins on the PGAT the week before the LIV event should get an invite, maybe even the top 2-3 guys.  Plus have a qualifier the week of to allow more guys to play their way in.  Then, if one of the PGAT guys finishes in the top 5 or 10 at LIV, they automatically get an invite to the next event.  If not, they gotta earn their way back. There needs to be reciprocity between the two tours.  I feel like LIV is being too exclusive, and the PGAT needs to get their heads outta their backsides and work with LIV before their brand is irreversibly damaged.  I would like to see probably 5 or 6 LIV events in the US, and the remaining events held all over the world.  The LIV events in the US should be scheduled so as not to interfere with the marquee PGAT tournaments, then like you said, LIV wouldn't have to poach the PGAT players, because the top guys don't play in the crappy events anyway.  It's definitely high time they started working together instead of trying to destroy each other.  Sadly, that's probably not going to happen.  Why can't we all just get along? 🤪

 

“I feel like LIV is being too exclusive”

 

Ya, they “excluded” the top-20 players in the world ; )

 

Kidding, they got DJ, hanging on at #18 and Pat Perez better have a DJ shrine in his house. 

 

Literally lost in all the hoopla is

 

Brooks Koepka!

 

The guy has disappeared. Anybody know where he is? He said he’d be challenging TWs majors total. I guess he wants to lay low. Bryson too, they are both retiring into the sunset together.

 

But, objectively, the liv is the exact same event with the exact same field, over and over. 48 guys.

And those 48, eclectic mix as they are and all, in this format, amount to an exhibition of primarily mid/lower tier guys, week after week. After week. 
 

Let’s see if it picks up steam but those $1 Sunday tickets may be telegraphing something unfavorable. 
 

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by bscinstnct

[Shortgamemagic]

11 hours ago, PorkChopExpress said:

 

Doesn't say anything about the standard. Pretty sure there's a bunch of players that would have liked to win also

Did Finau's standard or excellence drop at a second tier event? He's won two in a row, pretty impressive these days. 

 

When it comes down to it, golf is golf, competition is still competition and winning is still winning.

And there's only so many winners. 

 

Like the great Ricky Bobby says "If you ain't First, you last"

 

 

Finau has high standards 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Shortgamemagic

[bscinstnct]

 

[smashdn]

6 hours ago, 2bGood said:

 

Let's not pretend this about keeping food on the table or the lights on. This is about wether their kids are worth $50M or $20M.

 

Both seem like valid reasons to make decisions to better one's lot in life to me.  I don't like to let myself comment on how much money "is enough money" for any other person.  

My kids have a roof over their heads, shoes on their feet, and food on the table but I am still grinding.  Someone may look at my situation and just as easily say I am set and anything else is just greed.  Their lens through which they view my situation is no more valid than mine viewing anyone else's.

[Titleist99]

7 hours ago, oikos1 said:

He won his first event at twenty years old and roughly within a month of turning pro on the PGA Tour while beating two future Major winners in DeChambeau and Morikawa.  He also has a second at a U.S. Open and a T-4 at the PGA Championship. 

 

So a player leaves the PGA Tour and all of a sudden they are weak?  Kid is figuring out life.

 

What is happening around here?  It's becoming incredibly bizarre.  WRX at it's finest.

What can't be denied is the fact that he's a basket case......and that's coming from a Matt Wolff fan.

[MtlJeff]

7 hours ago, oikos1 said:

He won his first event at twenty years old and roughly within a month of turning pro on the PGA Tour while beating two future Major winners in DeChambeau and Morikawa.  He also has a second at a U.S. Open and a T-4 at the PGA Championship. 

 

So a player leaves the PGA Tour and all of a sudden they are weak?  Kid is figuring out life.

 

What is happening around here?  It's becoming incredibly bizarre.  WRX at it's finest.

 

Nah it's pretty normal, companies do this all the time with people who leave also. I worked for one once who used to say no one good had ever quit. Everyone who ever left they didn't want anyway.

 

It's just an emotional reaction to someone leaving something that makes you upset.

 

Like if your girlfriend dumps you "yeah well i hated you anyway"

[vjswing]

11 hours ago, 3 Putt Pete said:

 Nobody cares about Cameron Young and Tony Finau. 

 

Quote

Watch: Hundreds of people greeted Tony Finau when he landed after his consecutive PGA Tour wins

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/08/01/watch-tony-finau-airport-celebration-pga-tour-wins/

 

[Hardluckster]

16 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

What can't be denied is the fact that he's a basket case......and that's coming from a Matt Wolff fan.

He had a great round on Sunday. Here’s hoping that he has begun to turn it around. 

[MaineMariner]

3 hours ago, Short Pete said:

And that's exactly how it should be. Gary Woodland was 100th on last year's money list, he made almost 1.3 million bucks in prize money alone. If he goes halfway intelligent about it, that should leave him at least 600.000$ after expenses and taxes. That's a lot of dough for being the Number 100 of your profession on this tour. Or take Pat Perez: He scored two Top Tens in the 2021, missed 12 cuts, didn't even come remotely close to winning a tournament. He made 1.2 million. That's an awful lot of money for playing a game with a ball and a stick, if you ask me. And if Parker McLchlin wants to earn this kind of money he will have to qualify for the big show and perform there. That's a meritocratic system. The exact opposite of LIV. They buy the rich and make them even richer.

 

It also needs to be mentioned that the salary minimums cited for other leagues are salaries for a full year of play. If a baseball player gets a cup of coffee at the MLB level for a week, his earnings are not $650,000, or whatever the MLB minimum salary is. He earns one week's pay at $650k. His full yearly earnings are the paltry sums he makes at the minor league level, plus that one week of MLB pay.

 

The lower level PGA guys are more akin to minor league baseball players than they are MLB players.

[Titleist99]

5 hours ago, oikos1 said:

For the Top players, yes, it's $50M vs $20M.  Or something like that.

 

"Average Earning on Tour

According to pgatour.com, the average PGA Tour player earned just under $1.5 million in 2021. That number spans from that year's money leader, Jon Rahm, who earned a cool $7,705,933 million, to the PGA Tour's 250th place earner, Parker McLachlin, who earned $6,090."

 

https://www.golflink.com/about_4582_golfer-paid.html

 

We don't have time to break it all down, but most certainly it's a safe bet that there are many more Parker McLachlin's than there are John Rahm's fighting for a card to play on the PGA Tour.

What I got out of this is that out of the top twenty-two earners nine are golfers.

If Jon R. Pocketed $7M and the average earner earned $1.5M and the least earned $6K....

there's a lot more Jon Rs than the lease earner.....

Where did the number 250th earner come from? Pga tour only have 175 spots with 25 exemptions or am I wrong about that?