LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[Obsessed]

17 minutes ago, vjswing said:

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/08/01/watch-tony-finau-airport-celebration-pga-tour-wins/

 

Great homecoming for Tony - Cool to watch...

[Frankensteins Monster]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

[Titleist99]

12 hours ago, vjswing said:

For those suggesting that streaming is the absolute wave of the future when it comes to viewing pro golf, and that the idea of broadcast golf is dying on the vine, please read the comments from LIV Golf COO and President Atul Khosla:

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/liv-golf-absolutely-needs-a-broadcast-deal-president-131716056.html

We've had many on this fine board try to convince us that YouTube is replacing national television and that the young don't watch TV at all.......

 

This is why you can't listen to a L I V exhibition golf Fanatic at all.

[Ghost of Snead]

2 hours ago, Dave230 said:

Tiger probably couldn’t be bought regardless because even since he was a teenager it was 100% about legacy and the history of the game. But also money means nothing if Tiger can’t even play the US Open and a regular TV event without a cart. How is he going to play 14 events on the LIV Tour? I imagine the $700 million offer would come with a minimum tournament appearance guarantee.

 

Maybe not - Norman tried to get Nicklaus to sign on as a spokesperson as well. 

 

[Titleist99]

12 hours ago, drumdude96 said:

Yep, whoever wins on the PGAT the week before the LIV event should get an invite, maybe even the top 2-3 guys.  Plus have a qualifier the week of to allow more guys to play their way in.  Then, if one of the PGAT guys finishes in the top 5 or 10 at LIV, they automatically get an invite to the next event.  If not, they gotta earn their way back. There needs to be reciprocity between the two tours.  I feel like LIV is being too exclusive, and the PGAT needs to get their heads outta their backsides and work with LIV before their brand is irreversibly damaged.  I would like to see probably 5 or 6 LIV events in the US, and the remaining events held all over the world.  The LIV events in the US should be scheduled so as not to interfere with the marquee PGAT tournaments, then like you said, LIV wouldn't have to poach the PGAT players, because the top guys don't play in the crappy events anyway.  It's definitely high time they started working together instead of trying to destroy each other.  Sadly, that's probably not going to happen.  Why can't we all just get along? 🤪

Nah, let the pgatour figure out how to stop the poaching then let Team54 figure out how to cultivate their own talent through qualifying. It's now a closed Series..

[idrive]

11 hours ago, 3 Putt Pete said:

LIV is still an infant only a couple tournaments old and growing every week. Look how many players they have lost and LIV is only 4 tournament old. Im sure PGA Tour players love to play for "tradition" but the fact is they have families to feed and bills to pay. Missing cuts and not winning does not keep food on the table or keep the lights on. It costs them a lot of money every week. You're going to get more and more players bailing. Economy slipping into a recession,  sponsors are going to to thin out and prize pool will too. Days of Tiger Wood vs David Duval are over. Nobody cares about Cameron Young and Tony Finau. 

 

Jay has handled this poorly. He will be asked to resign before the dust clears. Thumping his chest and banning players isnt the answer. He needs to keep the players or in the end it will be just Jay and Rory shouting "LIV is bad!" at each other.

 

Considering this exhibition was supposed to be the top 48 players in the world, do you think for one second that the guys at or remotely near the bottom of the totem pole are ever going to get an offer from GN? 

 

Myself, along with many others including wrxers, actually do care about CY and TF.  They are a huge part of the landscape of professional golf going forward. Do you think GN wouldn't sign either one of these guys in a heartbeat?

How long is the over 40 crowd supposed to/going to remain relevant? 

 

7 hours ago, Htk084 said:

That is the list like I said.  Now I agree I think Tony finau will not go.  But he was thinking about it

 

I think winning now twice in a row he will stay for sure.  But for now he’s a “maybe”

 

Yes, every player has been or did think about it.  Doesn't mean they're going to go to the dark side. Might as well list my name as even I thought about it.

 

Quit reading all these different rags that have now listed every player as possibly or definitely going to liv.  It's really a bad look on your part spewing garbage you've read on the internet. Will more guys go? Probably but the PGAT will reload just as they do every year.  

 

liv can only employ so many players. Are you going to support liv when you don't know (and never will) who half of the players are? 

 

Same goes for the PGAT. The difference is the cream will rise to the top. There will be true competition.

 

 

[CaseyC]

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-official-world-golf-ranking-application-process-problems

 

However, it would appear in its current form, LIV Golf doesn’t possess the necessary organizational components to be approved....

 

...

1. An embrace of inclusion and promoting non-discriminatory practices.

2. Competitions contested over 72 holes, except for developmental tours (like the Abema TV Tour, the Alps Golf Tour, or the EuroPro Tour, among others), which are permitted to be 54-hole events.

3. An open annual qualifying school held before the start of each season.

4. A field size on average of 75 players over the course of a season.

5. A 36-hole cut, whether playing 54 or 72 holes.

6. A clear opportunity to progress to a full member tour, that is, to one of the six members of the International Federation of PGA Tours.

7. Reasonable access for local and regional players (i.e. Monday qualifiers) at each of its tournaments.

Additionally, LIV Golf does not meet the requirement of a 10-event minimum schedule, though it should next year with its plan for 14 tournaments. 

[CDM]

21 hours ago, idrive said:

 

No I'm not going to waste my time looking it up but just glancing at the guys on liv, I don't remember any of those guys winning a tourny the couple of years. Only a couple have a win in the last 3-4 years.

 

Over the last 4 years Stenson has made approx. 20% of the cuts.  Wins his 1st time out at Bedmin. To me that just points out how weak the field is. DJ is the only one that could win on the PGAT, including the Dairy Queen.

 

Same DRIBBLE all the time..... Sorry @idrive but your better than that.   

 

I was glad to see Tony win again as I like him as a person, more then a golfer.  Yet Tony had not won since '15-'16 season and IF he had not won the week prior you could say exactly the same about the field at 3M event.... lucky that Homa joined late or they had no winners on tour.

 

Its golf, its how it goes...does not matter if on PGA / LIV / Euro.  Players get hot, find the swing like Tony said he did and ride it.

 

Using it as a crutch to knock LIV or any other golf tourney is just dribble. 

 

So if Scotty does not win for the next year or so, is he "washed up"..? Better yet, Rory who has won once a year for that last 2 years on lower level fields.  Lets not even talk about all the hype of being "odds on favorite" for the LAST 8 years to win majors and has gone 0-32 ...!!  He has had his chances is most of them and not finished it...twice this year alone...!  So is he washed to you because he can not finish?  The answer is NO...ITS TOURNEY GOLF.... 

 

So many comments about players washed up, over the hill, cant play, etc.  Unless talking Tiger, all players go up and down.  What about Jordan?

 

Hate on Phil but he proved exactly what I am saying last year at the PGA, he found his swing and putter just like Tony has the last two weeks...!  *LOL Phil could use it now for sure hahaha 

 

What is really obvious is a large number of you have not played in top tourney events because if you did you would know.

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by CDM

[idrive]

Can't make this stuff up.

 

In an interview on Sunday, Dustin Johnson admitted that LIV has improved his family life. “We can now afford three babysitters so I can literally party whenever I want and not have to worry about the kids. I actually see them less than when I was on the PGA.”

 

I'm not judging... just not what I'd expect him or anyone else to say.

[Titleist99]

2 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

And most of those viewers were Wrx'ers........LOL!

[CDM]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

What can't be denied is the fact that he's a basket case......and that's coming from a Matt Wolff fan.

 

I am huge MW fan too..! Was so glad to see him play well on Sunday and look happy.. 

 

What is sad though is people attacking a person that is working through serious personal issues.  Again it just shows just how far this whole discussion has fallen..................

[golfandfishing]

6 hours ago, capking said:

1) Is this the same if Nike gives a player a huge endorsement contract? 
 

2) is this because of their shirts looking like a NASCAR car? 
 

Do people gamble on which logos a player will be wearing?  “Hey Rico I’ll take Mutual of Omaha on the left chest of Jamie Donaldson at +1400.”  

[Titleist99]

22 minutes ago, CaseyC said:

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-official-world-golf-ranking-application-process-problems

 

However, it would appear in its current form, LIV Golf doesn’t possess the necessary organizational components to be approved....

 

...

1. An embrace of inclusion and promoting non-discriminatory practices.

2. Competitions contested over 72 holes, except for developmental tours (like the Abema TV Tour, the Alps Golf Tour, or the EuroPro Tour, among others), which are permitted to be 54-hole events.

3. An open annual qualifying school held before the start of each season.

4. A field size on average of 75 players over the course of a season.

5. A 36-hole cut, whether playing 54 or 72 holes.

6. A clear opportunity to progress to a full member tour, that is, to one of the six members of the International Federation of PGA Tours.

7. Reasonable access for local and regional players (i.e. Monday qualifiers) at each of its tournaments.

Additionally, LIV Golf does not meet the requirement of a 10-event minimum schedule, though it should next year with its plan for 14 tournaments. 

Other than the above mentioned...........It's just an Exhibition Series.

[Rob G 89]

23 minutes ago, CaseyC said:

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-official-world-golf-ranking-application-process-problems

 

However, it would appear in its current form, LIV Golf doesn’t possess the necessary organizational components to be approved....

 

...

1. An embrace of inclusion and promoting non-discriminatory practices.

2. Competitions contested over 72 holes, except for developmental tours (like the Abema TV Tour, the Alps Golf Tour, or the EuroPro Tour, among others), which are permitted to be 54-hole events.

3. An open annual qualifying school held before the start of each season.

4. A field size on average of 75 players over the course of a season.

5. A 36-hole cut, whether playing 54 or 72 holes.

6. A clear opportunity to progress to a full member tour, that is, to one of the six members of the International Federation of PGA Tours.

7. Reasonable access for local and regional players (i.e. Monday qualifiers) at each of its tournaments.

Additionally, LIV Golf does not meet the requirement of a 10-event minimum schedule, though it should next year with its plan for 14 tournaments. 

Why does a cut matter? I’ve noticed on some tournaments that people make the cut and still don’t get points because a low finish.

[jdl]

12 hours ago, vjswing said:

For those suggesting that streaming is the absolute wave of the future when it comes to viewing pro golf, and that the idea of broadcast golf is dying on the vine, please read the comments from LIV Golf COO and President Atul Khosla:

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/liv-golf-absolutely-needs-a-broadcast-deal-president-131716056.html

 

Yeah, streaming/cord cutting is more about the drama, comedy shows, movies etc that is on broadcast TV and cable. No one needs to watch that live plus there's better content on the streaming services.

 

But sports & news? That's stuff most people want to watch live, especially the big events. It's why college football is raking in the dough and even though golf is a niche sport, it's still incredibly valuable due to that "live" factor with advertising.

 

2 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

No PGAT competition but....

 

[Str8Putt]

12 hours ago, jgonz69 said:

Some golfers cannot be bought regardless the amount thrown at them

 

Tiger is the face of the PGA along with all his records. Tiger is also a brand and wouldn't be surprised to see him as the President of the PGA someday.

The bigger question that can't be answered though is what would Tiger and Earl do if Year 2 Tiger was offered $500mil to play in a start up league, what would he have done. 

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, Hardluckster said:

He had a great round on Sunday. Here’s hoping that he has begun to turn it around. 

Yep, lowered pressure and lower expectations.......

[PhilsFanDrew]

21 minutes ago, CDM said:

 

Same DRIBBLE all the time..... Sorry @idrive but your better then that.   

 

I was glad to see Tony win again as I like him a person, more then a golfer.  Yet Tony had not won since '15-'16 season and IF he had not won the week prior you could say exactly the same about the field at 3M event.... lucky that Homa joined late or they had no winners on tour.

 

Its golf, its how it goes...does not matter if on PGA / LIV / Euro.  Players get hot, find the swing like Tony said he did and ride it.

 

Using it as a crutch to knock LIV or any other golf tourney is just dribble. 

 

So if Scotty does not win for the next year or so, is he "washed up"..? Better yet, Rory who has won once a year for that last 2 years on lower level fields.  Lets not even talk about all the hype of being "odds on favorite" for the LAST 8 years to win majors and has gone 0-32 ...!!  He has had his chances is most of them and not finished it...twice this year alone...!  So is he washed to you because he can not finish?  The answer is NO...ITS TOURNEY GOLF.... 

 

So many comments about players washed up, over the hill, cant play, etc.  Unless talking Tiger, all players go up and down.  What about Jordan?

 

Hate on Phil but he proved exactly what I am saying last year at the PGA, he found his swing and putter just like Tony has the last two weeks...!  *LOL Phil could use it now for sure hahaha 

 

What is really obvious is a large number of you have not played in top tourney events because if you did you would know.

 

 

Also notice about these comments about LIV golfers being washed up, over the hill, flash in the pan, etc only happen when they leave the PGA Tour for LIV.  Guarantee you if Brooks and Bryson stayed on the PGA Tour, these guys wouldn't be saying that.  They would say, correctly, "Both have been plagued with the injury bug but are still young enough to get healthier and compete at a high level."

[tatertot]

12 hours ago, drumdude96 said:

How much lower do you think the PGAT guys would have scored at Bedminster with that setup?  Honest question.  I thought the guys who finished in the top 5 played some really good golf.  I really don't think the PGAT guys would have done much better, if at all.  It was also nice to see Matthew Wolff have a good week for a change.  Hopefully he can gain some confidence from that. 

You don't think PGA guys would have done much better? Stenson hasn't won ANYWHERE since 2017 ... and he can't make a cut on the PGA Tour. How do you think the PGA guys would have done at Bedminster?

[Htk084]

42 minutes ago, idrive said:

 

Considering this exhibition was supposed to be the top 48 players in the world, do you think for one second that the guys at or remotely near the bottom of the totem pole are ever going to get an offer from GN? 

 

Myself, along with many others including wrxers, actually do care about CY and TF.  They are a huge part of the landscape of professional golf going forward. Do you think GN wouldn't sign either one of these guys in a heartbeat?

How long is the over 40 crowd supposed to/going to remain relevant? 

 

 

Yes, every player has been or did think about it.  Doesn't mean they're going to go to the dark side. Might as well list my name as even I thought about it.

 

Quit reading all these different rags that have now listed every player as possibly or definitely going to liv.  It's really a bad look on your part spewing garbage you've read on the internet. Will more guys go? Probably but the PGAT will reload just as they do every year.  

 

liv can only employ so many players. Are you going to support liv when you don't know (and never will) who half of the players are? 

 

Same goes for the PGAT. The difference is the cream will rise to the top. There will be true competition.

 

 

this is why I said save my list for later.  But okay.   My list stands.  It should hold up pretty well this fall

[sfiggins]

4 hours ago, Short Pete said:

And that's exactly how it should be. Gary Woodland was 100th on last year's money list, he made almost 1.3 million bucks in prize money alone. If he goes halfway intelligent about it, that should leave him at least 600.000$ after expenses and taxes. That's a lot of dough for being the Number 100 of your profession on this tour. Or take Pat Perez: He scored two Top Tens in the 2021, missed 12 cuts, didn't even come remotely close to winning a tournament. He made 1.2 million. That's an awful lot of money for playing a game with a ball and a stick, if you ask me. And if Parker McLchlin wants to earn this kind of money he will have to qualify for the big show and perform there. That's a meritocratic system. The exact opposite of LIV. They buy the rich and make them even richer.

 

MLB is also a meritocracy, but with guaranteed salaries. The 100th highest paid MLB’er makes $12.5 million and about 270 of them make $1.3 mil or more. The  average salary in MLB is $4.41 million with zero travel and caddie expenses. MLB has no Parker McLachlin’s, who probably lost money on the PGA Tour . 

 

 

[tatertot]

29 minutes ago, CDM said:

 

Same DRIBBLE all the time..... Sorry @idrive but your better than that.   

 

I was glad to see Tony win again as I like him as a person, more then a golfer.  Yet Tony had not won since '15-'16 season and IF he had not won the week prior you could say exactly the same about the field at 3M event.... lucky that Homa joined late or they had no winners on tour.

 

Its golf, its how it goes...does not matter if on PGA / LIV / Euro.  Players get hot, find the swing like Tony said he did and ride it.

 

Using it as a crutch to knock LIV or any other golf tourney is just dribble. 

 

So if Scotty does not win for the next year or so, is he "washed up"..? Better yet, Rory who has won once a year for that last 2 years on lower level fields.  Lets not even talk about all the hype of being "odds on favorite" for the LAST 8 years to win majors and has gone 0-32 ...!!  He has had his chances is most of them and not finished it...twice this year alone...!  So is he washed to you because he can not finish?  The answer is NO...ITS TOURNEY GOLF.... 

 

So many comments about players washed up, over the hill, cant play, etc.  Unless talking Tiger, all players go up and down.  What about Jordan?

 

Hate on Phil but he proved exactly what I am saying last year at the PGA, he found his swing and putter just like Tony has the last two weeks...!  *LOL Phil could use it now for sure hahaha 

 

What is really obvious is a large number of you have not played in top tourney events because if you did you would know.

 

Finau's been one of the hottest golfers on the planet for the last 2 years. 

 

And the word you're looking for is "drivel" ... not "dribble". Which is "ironic".

[MaineMariner]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

What I got out of this is that out of the top twenty-two earners nine are golfers.

If Jon R. Pocketed $7M and the average earner earned $1.5M and the least earned $6K....

there's a lot more Jon Rs than the lease earner.....

Where did the number 250th earner come from? Pga tour only have 175 spots with 25 exemptions or am I wrong about that?

 

Parker McLachlin played in 9 events on the PGA Tour in the 2021-2022 season, making one cut. He's 43 years old and plays a handful of events per season. He last played more than 10 events on the PGA Tour in 2010. In 2008, he made $1.3 million and won an event. In his career, he's made $2.5 million playing on the Tour. He's also played a little bit on the Korn Ferry Tour.

 

It's safe to say that he's a part time PGA Tour player these days and is probably getting into events based on sponsor's exemptions. I don't know why anyone would go looking at him as the barometer of... anything, really.

[Shortgamemagic]

1 hour ago, Hardluckster said:

He had a great round on Sunday. Here’s hoping that he has begun to turn it around. 

Turn it around for what? To play in more meaningless tournaments?

[mitchl]

3 hours ago, Dave230 said:

Tiger probably couldn’t be bought regardless because even since he was a teenager it was 100% about legacy and the history of the game. But also money means nothing if Tiger can’t even play the US Open and a regular TV event without a cart. How is he going to play 14 events on the LIV Tour? I imagine the $700 million offer would come with a minimum tournament appearance guarantee.

not sure about that.   Is the value of Phil that he is playing?   They aren’t even showing him.   The value of Phil or Tiger is that it validates the league.   Unfortunately for LIV, Phil torpedoed his own value, and LIV either was already committed or made a mistake in taking him.

 

had Tiger signed, what would be Rory or JT’s response?   At the least, they would not be so hard lined against it, but it’s very likely they would have gone.   Jordan would have gone.   Instead, either Tiger on his own, or with input from Jack, turns it down—- and gives his speech at the Open.   Totally different world here because Tiger turned it down and gave his speech.   If Cam and Hidecki dont end signing I would bet it is directly related to Tiger’s influence.

 

instead of paying Tiger $700m, LIV is continuing to sign players outside the top 50, paying tens of millions to get names worth 1% of the name Tiger Woods

[Potatohead]

13 hours ago, BottleCap said:

That’s not true at all, try again

Uhh, yes it is? This was a three year deal:

 

https://dmedmedia.disney.com/news/mothers-polish-formula-1-sponsorship

[2bGood]

4 hours ago, Dave230 said:

Tiger probably couldn’t be bought regardless because even since he was a teenager it was 100% about legacy and the history of the game. But also money means nothing if Tiger can’t even play the US Open and a regular TV event without a cart. How is he going to play 14 events on the LIV Tour? I imagine the $700 million offer would come with a minimum tournament appearance guarantee.

 

Tiger should have no interest around shifting what "golf is". Safe to say he will not have any LIV wins or LIV majors, so 100 years from now he would not want LIV to be the dominant tour and his accomplishments by a footnote about an irrelevant golfing world. 

 

 

 

 

 

[mitchl]

15 hours ago, golfandfishing said:

I know there are betting lines currently available but I see two big issues with this:

 

1) how much is the general public willing to gamble on a player or players when it’s already pretty clear that the upfront money has negatively influenced most of the top player’s motivation and desire to win. 
 

2) we already know all of these players can be bought. 
 

 

will gamblers gamble when it’s risky and unknowns?    Phil sure did!   
the betting public will bet way more than you think on these guys.   
 

what is surprising to me is that now two months and three events in, the LIV website has zero info that I can find on playing statistics.   Some player profiles are still blank (Ancer).  I would think that more serious betters or just some viewers would want to be able to look at the trendlines on playing stats.     

[dcfas]

9 hours ago, 2bGood said:

 

Let's not pretend this about keeping food on the table or the lights on. This is about wether their kids are worth $50M or $20M.

Yup. Reminds me of the short story, “How Much Land Does a Man Need?” (Tolstoy)

[smashdn]

1 hour ago, CaseyC said:

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-official-world-golf-ranking-application-process-problems

 

However, it would appear in its current form, LIV Golf doesn’t possess the necessary organizational components to be approved....

 

...

1. An embrace of inclusion and promoting non-discriminatory practices.

2. Competitions contested over 72 holes, except for developmental tours (like the Abema TV Tour, the Alps Golf Tour, or the EuroPro Tour, among others), which are permitted to be 54-hole events.

3. An open annual qualifying school held before the start of each season.

4. A field size on average of 75 players over the course of a season.

5. A 36-hole cut, whether playing 54 or 72 holes.

6. A clear opportunity to progress to a full member tour, that is, to one of the six members of the International Federation of PGA Tours.

7. Reasonable access for local and regional players (i.e. Monday qualifiers) at each of its tournaments.

Additionally, LIV Golf does not meet the requirement of a 10-event minimum schedule, though it should next year with its plan for 14 tournaments. 

 

I get this and understand that this is their rules and they are welcome and entitled to have them, but why are we saying this is how a golf tournament should be so rigidly?

 

I especially question some of the things above and ask myself why is that so and what about this is an intrinsic must-have for a golf tournament.  Such as a 36 hole cut.  What purpose does a 36 hole cut serve?  Every once in a blue moon someone will make the "cut on the number" and sneak back into contention.  (I am looking at you Rory.)  In a 54 hole event especially, what is the 36 hole cut serving?  Guy from the bottom gets hot and has a career round and ends up T15.  What did that get us?  And why is that better?

 

Why 72 holes?  Who decided that was the optimum number of rounds for fielding a golf tournament?  Why not more?  Why not less?  I can see arguments for both.  Less rounds means each round of golf and each hole is that much more critical.  More rounds means you get a truer examination of who is playing the best golf on that course that week.

 

#3 might be problematic going forward for the PGAT.  How are they going to be open and allow those who have left and want to come play PGAT events back with their current stance?

#7, what defines reasonable access.  Can anyone, with or without a PGAT card, Monday qualify and get in any field?

 

I don't currently understand #6.  The way I am reading it here is almost as though they are saying there are only six recognized member tours and all the other tours need to have a mechanism to promote up to one of those six tours.

 

What would happen in a (hypothetical) World Match Play League where some players got byes into subsequent rounds and could win without playing a full 54 holes?