LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[idrive]

I wonder if anyone can show me a professional sport that's televised, Live, that doesn't have commercials?

 

It doesn't count if the Saudis own it.

 

Football

Baseball

Hockey

Tennis

Soccer 

All racing

 

Races at a park at a picnic don't count either.

[PorkChopExpress]

8 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Well, the broadcast/product being “old and tired” didn’t seem to matter when this was on…

 

 

 

You can have rapid fire shots, an F1 leader board, announcers with accents who crack jokes,

 

But none of that matters even remotely, infinitesimally, compared to the talent. 
 

The Masters. Is it “old and tired”? Does it need to be “louder”? Or if you want louder, you got the WM.

 

Theres very little, if anything wrong with pga broadcast. Golf is totally boring for 90% of kids to play and 99% of kids to watch. Nothing can change that. Half the shots are a ball rolling like 4mph toward a hole in the ground. 
 

The best football game I ever saw was that Dolphins/Chargers game in 1981. Prolly a 27” TV with none of the graphics and crap they have now. 
 

It’s all about the talent. And the venue to an extent , in golf. 
 

Where wed agree most likely is that the pga tour needs to consolidate and concentrate events and talent so the fields are stronger more often. 
 

As far as LIV, if they score a field of at least a 3rd of the top-20, they’ve got something. Until then, with this field, the interest will be limited. 

The El Tigre effect is over. One can tell when he plays to when he doesn’t. Just look at St Andrew’s, didn’t even come close to the cut, in fact came in almost last. 
But was still the biggest draw of anyone. 
 

golf is turning into tennis which it doesn’t want to be.

 

And twitchtv is crazy. Who’d thought folks would like to watch other people play video games lol 

Streaming is only getting bigger and bigger cause it can unify international viewing. 

 

6 hours ago, BottleCap said:

That's the Masters, not the PGAT, they don't have nearly the amount of commercials that a PGAT broadcast has.

 

The US Open and British Open have lots of commercials, but the fact that they're majors and just once a year makes it easier to put up with the commercials.

Masters streaming was awesome. 

Barely any commercials and you don’t have to listen to Faldo or Nantz.

have multiple windows for the different holes, simply just golf.
 

[Ghost of Snead]

9 hours ago, DrunkCaddy said:

If you are waiting for the next Tiger to come along and save the PGA ... you are going to be greatly disappointed.

 

The PGA Tour doesn't need saving - do the TV telecasts need some work ? Maybe ..

[summerof]

6 hours ago, Htk084 said:

Here’s the latest I have:

 

Going

-cam smith

-hideki

-adam scott

-mark leishman

 

Maybe

-Fleetwood

-tyrell hatton

-cantlay

-xander

-finau

Go ahead and bookmark this for later!!

If all these guys go, then unless I'm bored I'll only watch a PGA Tour event if Rory, Rahm and Collin are playing. And it would probably need all 3.

[ElephantTusk]

Has anyone considered that maybe golf is just the product of a bygone era? I love the sport, but it’s possible its best days are in the past. 

21st century entertainment tends to be:

1. time controlled or on-demand (e.g. NBA and Netflix),
2. a display obvious athleticism, action, or suspense (e.g. NBA and video games)

Sort of constrained by those variables with golf. You can make it faster (e.g. 6 hole “rounds”), but hard to fake action for a casual fan.

What or who in golf could make a new, uninitiated fan go “wow, holy s*** that was amazing! no way I could do that.”? 

[FriedEgg]

5 hours ago, PorkChopExpress said:

The El Tigre effect is over. One can tell when he plays to when he doesn’t. Just look at St Andrew’s, didn’t even come close to the cut, in fact came in almost last. 
But was still the biggest draw of anyone. 
 

golf is turning into tennis which it doesn’t want to be.

 

And twitchtv is crazy. Who’d thought folks would like to watch other people play video games lol 

Streaming is only getting bigger and bigger cause it can unify international viewing. 

 

Masters streaming was awesome. 

Barely any commercials and you don’t have to listen to Faldo or Nantz.

have multiple windows for the different holes, simply just golf.
 

 

Masters streaming is hands down the best and the Augusta National does not rake me over the coals for it

[cardia10]

9 hours ago, mitchl said:

if they get any of those top 10 guys after the FedEx cup, if they don't play ranked tournaments before Augusta, they will drop like a rock and be out of the top 20.   DJ went from #2 at end of December to #17 by mid June, and that included some ranked tournament play, with none- the dropoff would be faster.

The PGA Tour's last 3 events has a much weaker field than the LIV, maybe the PGA should have to beg for world ranking points if their fields continue at that strength. Just because the LIV guys doesn't get points doesn't mean they still aren't some of the top 50 golfers in the world, it just means the PGA has bullied the OWGR from excluding their events. I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Augusta hand out exemptions as they aren't typically one to be pushed around or told what to do by the PGA.

Edited August 1, 2022 by cardia10

[Shortgamemagic]

1 hour ago, ElephantTusk said:

Has anyone considered that maybe golf is just the product of a bygone era? I love the sport, but it’s possible its best days are in the past. 

21st century entertainment tends to be:

1. time controlled or on-demand (e.g. NBA and Netflix),
2. a display obvious athleticism, action, or suspense (e.g. NBA and video games)

Sort of constrained by those variables with golf. You can make it faster (e.g. 6 hole “rounds”), but hard to fake action for a casual fan.

What or who in golf could make a new, uninitiated fan go “wow, holy s*** that was amazing! no way I could do that.”? 

That’s why I like golf, it’s different. Why does everything “have” to be modernized? I hate the mashed potatoes doosh yelling at tournaments and that’s what LIV wants. To me, it’s stupid and not entertaining at all. 

[Langlands]

I've watched the 3 LIV events so far, and I've really enjoyed them. There are parts that I don't care for e.g. some of the announcing is cringeworthy (Feherty has been a good addition, never thought I would ever say that) and I don't think the team part of it works that well, but I do like the entire coverage being compressed into 4 hours and the lack of adverts. That may change if they secure a broadcast deal beyond YouTube - although if they are as serious about "growing the game" as they say they are then perhaps YT is the way to go.

[mitchl]

2 hours ago, cardia10 said:

The PGA Tour's last 3 events has a much weaker field than the LIV, maybe the PGA should have to beg for world ranking points if their fields continue at that strength. Just because the LIV guys doesn't get points doesn't mean they still aren't some of the top 50 golfers in the world, it just means the PGA has bullied the OWGR from excluding their events. I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Augusta hand out exemptions as they aren't typically one to be pushed around or told what to do by the PGA.

the Rocket Mortgage strength rating was significantly higher than the Bedminster LIV event.   That’s using the OWGR formulas which have been in place since before LIV.    
 

the PGA may be wanting LIV excluded, it does appear many of the players they represent do.   But as far as excluding the LIV events now…. one would be living in fantasyland to think that LIV can start a league in June, have 3 events, and expect the rating system used by 20+ other leagues will just include them overnight.   Hell, we should demand our club championship get rated over that kind of logic.

 

you are correct in that Augusta doesn’t want to be pushed by the PGAT, none of the majors do.  At some point or other, they have all had significant differences with the Tour.   I do think that it may be possible that Augusta give an exemption for the LIV tour champion, but it won’t be this year… and it very likely won’t be until they ditch Norman.   Norman can’t go attacking Augusta and then ask for favors.   Yes, he is a multiple 54 hole winner at Augusta, but that doesn’t buy him much favor there.

 

I do think that LIV will get ranked next year, and so there will be a path to get into the majors by being in the top 50 or whatever the exemption for the major has… don’t think the majors will be adjusting much.   But be prepared for some disappointment in that just calling it ranked is not going to bring up these golfers positions in the OWGR.   the strength of field is not good and unless they get some top 20 players when they are ranked, it’s going to be tough to move up.   If they get Cam Smith now, he could well be out of the top 20 by next June if they start ranking then.

 

and as far as LIV having some of the Top 50 golfers now… yes.  They pulled in multiple golfers between #20 and #50.   They got one who came in at #17.  That’s the bottom half of the top 50, and it’s still only a few.   Plus, in three events these Top 50 golfers have been beaten by guys outside the top 100, and who haven’t won in the last 4 years (except Grace who won an alternate event , Puerto Rico Open in 21.    That’s not doing much to adjust the refrain which is LIV is only getting a good player once they are on the decline.   

Edited August 1, 2022 by mitchl

[drumdude96]

After watching part of each of the first 3 events, I'm on the fence about LIV's format. I think some changes are in order and would definitely help them get OWGR points. I have some suggestions:

The events need to be 72 holes. They should start with 6 players on each team and do a shotgun start for the first two days. After the first two rounds, the worst two players from each team are cut, and the field goes back to 48 guys for the weekend. Saturday and Sunday, no shotgun start. Everyone begins their rounds on hole #1 just like every other tour. The shotgun would be great for speeding things up the first couple days while narrowing down the field, but a traditional format on the weekends would be less "all over the place" and I think would help build suspense and drama for the viewers. Plus it would give Feherty time to actually inject his wit and sense of humor into what's going on. I love Feherty, but he's not really getting to do what he does best when the shots are coming in rapid-fire like they are with the current format.

They need to have qualifiers for each event. There should be at least 6 spots (if not 12) for guys to make their way into each event. That in combination with the cut would make it much more merit-based than what they're doing now. After the cut, those 48 guys reap the benefits of the tournament purse. You can pay the guys who get cut 10-15 grand so they at least earn something for the week, but the top 48 guys are in on the big payday.

If they were to implement those changes, it would definitely help them get OWGR points, and I think it would improve the overall product for the viewers and be seen as much less of a "clown show".

[BottleCap]

8 hours ago, idrive said:

I wonder if anyone can show me a professional sport that's televised, Live, that doesn't have commercials?

 

It doesn't count if the Saudis own it.

 

Football

Baseball

Hockey

Tennis

Soccer 

All racing

 

Races at a park at a picnic don't count either.

Soccer and F1 doesn't have commercials

[leezer99]

2 hours ago, cardia10 said:

The PGA Tour's last 3 events has a much weaker field than the LIV, maybe the PGA should have to beg for world ranking points if their fields continue at that strength. Just because the LIV guys doesn't get points doesn't mean they still aren't some of the top 50 golfers in the world, it just means the PGA has bullied the OWGR from excluding their events. I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Augusta hand out exemptions as they aren't typically one to be pushed around or told what to do by the PGA.

There has been no bullying by the PGA in regards to LIV getting stars. They just don't meet the guidelines and even if they did they have to maintain those guidelines for an entire year before becoming eligible.  One guideline is that the new tour must operate 10 events per year and this year LIV will only have 8. Next year they bump to 14 which in my mind would kick off their first year of falling within the already established guidelines. 2024 is likely the first year they will be eligible for OWGR points.

[TM4me]

2 hours ago, cardia10 said:

The PGA Tour's last 3 events has a much weaker field than the LIV, maybe the PGA should have to beg for world ranking points if their fields continue at that strength. Just because the LIV guys doesn't get points doesn't mean they still aren't some of the top 50 golfers in the world, it just means the PGA has bullied the OWGR from excluding their events. I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Augusta hand out exemptions as they aren't typically one to be pushed around or told what to do by the PGA.

Weaker Field?  I'll take Tony Finau, Will Zalatoris, Cameron Young and Max Homa against any (4) LIV players you care to pick.

[BottleCap]

3 hours ago, ElephantTusk said:

Has anyone considered that maybe golf is just the product of a bygone era? I love the sport, but it’s possible its best days are in the past. 

21st century entertainment tends to be:

1. time controlled or on-demand (e.g. NBA and Netflix),
2. a display obvious athleticism, action, or suspense (e.g. NBA and video games)

Sort of constrained by those variables with golf. You can make it faster (e.g. 6 hole “rounds”), but hard to fake action for a casual fan.

What or who in golf could make a new, uninitiated fan go “wow, holy s*** that was amazing! no way I could do that.”? 

 

I think it’s the internet that has changed everything, when i was a kid in the 90s, the only things we had to watch was whatever was on tv at the time or i could pester my parents to get something at Blockbuster video

 

Now you can watch anything you want, i noticed a few months back that the latest thing is FIFA has a streaming service and the NFL is coming out with one too. 

 

As far as circus attractions, the PGAT were pretty close with Bryson at the Rocket Mortgage a few years back, it’s just a matter of time until we see a Bryson that doesn’t break down

[cardia10]

7 minutes ago, TM4me said:

Weaker Field?  I'll take Tony Finau, Will Zalatoris, Cameron Young and Max Homa against any (4) LIV players you care to pick.

Previous world rankings don't support that argument. A little easier to win on tour now that all the LIV guys are gone. The 2nd tier cream is rising to the top. Remember, these guys are winning the 3M Dairy Queen Open, not the Masters. 

[Ghost of Snead]

27 minutes ago, drumdude96 said:

After watching part of each of the first 3 events, I'm on the fence about LIV's format. I think some changes are in order and would definitely help them get OWGR points. I have some suggestions:

The events need to be 72 holes. They should start with 6 players on each team and do a shotgun start for the first two days. After the first two rounds, the worst two players from each team are cut, and the field goes back to 48 guys for the weekend. Saturday and Sunday, no shotgun start. Everyone begins their rounds on hole #1 just like every other tour. The shotgun would be great for speeding things up the first couple days while narrowing down the field, but a traditional format on the weekends would be less "all over the place" and I think would help build suspense and drama for the viewers. Plus it would give Feherty time to actually inject his wit and sense of humor into what's going on. I love Feherty, but he's not really getting to do what he does best when the shots are coming in rapid-fire like they are with the current format.

They need to have qualifiers for each event. There should be at least 6 spots (if not 12) for guys to make their way into each event. That in combination with the cut would make it much more merit-based than what they're doing now. After the cut, those 48 guys reap the benefits of the tournament purse. You can pay the guys who get cut 10-15 grand so they at least earn something for the week, but the top 48 guys are in on the big payday.

If they were to implement those changes, it would definitely help them get OWGR points, and I think it would improve the overall product for the viewers and be seen as much less of a "clown show".

 

Sounding more and more like the PGA Tour ...

[CDM]

14 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Well, the broadcast/product being “old and tired” didn’t seem to matter when this was on…

 

 

 

You can have rapid fire shots, an F1 leader board, announcers with accents who crack jokes,

 

But none of that matters even remotely, infinitesimally, compared to the talent. 
 

The Masters. Is it “old and tired”? Does it need to be “louder”? Or if you want louder, you got the WM.

 

Theres very little, if anything wrong with pga broadcast. Golf is totally boring for 90% of kids to play and 99% of kids to watch. Nothing can change that. Half the shots are a ball rolling like 4mph toward a hole in the ground. 
 

The best football game I ever saw was that Dolphins/Chargers game in 1981. Prolly a 27” TV with none of the graphics and crap they have now. 
 

It’s all about the talent. And the venue to an extent , in golf. 
 

Where wed agree most likely is that the pga tour needs to consolidate and concentrate events and talent so the fields are stronger more often. 
 

As far as LIV, if they score a field of at least a 3rd of the top-20, they’ve got something. Until then, with this field, the interest will be limited. 

 

Pretty sure most on this thread are not as old as the video you linked 🤣

[bscinstnct]

Here is David Hill, LIV consultant, former Fox Sports EVP, on the challenges of golf viewing demographics,

 

“How long do we have? Here’s the horrendous truth about golf,” Hill told “The Ourand and Marchand Sports Media Podcast” earlier this week. “The last figures I saw about golf, 50 percent of the television audience was 65+, which means they’re dead in 25 years. Seventy-eight percent was 50+. So what does that tell you? The audience is dying.”

 

https://golf.com/news/david-hill-liv-golf-horrendous-truth-charles-barkley/?amp=1

 

So, there is no chance to change the demographic that watches golf. There are too many far more appealing sports/entertainment options available. 
 

What LIV can do is capture as much of the younger end of the demographics (the 50 year olds just getting into watching) so they are the choice as the demographic continues to age. 
 

Im 54! And my thinking is that it’s all about the talent as far as drawing my interest. 
 

I watch majors for 4 days. I’ll watch Sat and Sunday for high profile events with top fields, Players, Fedex, and a handful of others. Otherwise, I really just might tune in a little on Sunday for a mediocre field and see if it’s interesting. 
 

So, far, LIV is miles from that top-field status but….
 

If LIV has 70% of the top-20, I’ll watch. Even with the guaranteed money. Because if you have all those “alphas”, they can’t help but gun for each other hard. And you have a chance to see some great golf. 
 

The format, graphics, announcers, are all meaningless to me. 
 

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by bscinstnct

[CasualLie]

3 hours ago, ElephantTusk said:

Has anyone considered that maybe golf is just the product of a bygone era? I love the sport, but it’s possible its best days are in the past. 

21st century entertainment tends to be:

1. time controlled or on-demand (e.g. NBA and Netflix),
2. a display obvious athleticism, action, or suspense (e.g. NBA and video games)

Sort of constrained by those variables with golf. You can make it faster (e.g. 6 hole “rounds”), but hard to fake action for a casual fan.

What or who in golf could make a new, uninitiated fan go “wow, holy s*** that was amazing! no way I could do that.”? 

 

There is a lot of truth in that.  That's why you hear LIV talking about how most viewers of golf are well over 50 years old and so the format needs shaking up.  The problem is you can't "shake up" the format when it is run by a bunch of boomers or older, and expect to capture the youth.  All the rock / hip-hop music on the tee, instagram pics of Perez in his basketball pants/shoes, runway pics of white dads in untucked button down shirts, shotguns, etc...in the world are not going to captivate the youth.

 

Trying to be like F1 and a team concept???  $1B for a team???  That's so laughable it is just completely ludicrous, not funny.  Since the car was invented, people want to drive faster and faster, and watch people drive fast, and some even love it just for the crashes.  Even if a golfer could shoot 54 in 18 holes, that would start to get boring pretty fast.

 

Golf has been and always will be a niche sport.  A relatively bigger "niche" than decades before, but it is not NFL, NBA, F1, World Cup/Champions League, and never will be no matter how much money Saudis throw at it....not even close.  

[Ferguson]

This exciting graphic taken from an early Greg Norman presentation paints a dramatic picture of LIV golf expansion from 2022 to 2028. 

 

 

 

You can see the flash of color behind Greg. 

 

 

[CDM]

9 hours ago, PorkChopExpress said:

The El Tigre effect is over. One can tell when he plays to when he doesn’t. Just look at St Andrew’s, didn’t even come close to the cut, in fact came in almost last. 
But was still the biggest draw of anyone. 
 

golf is turning into tennis which it doesn’t want to be.

 

And twitchtv is crazy. Who’d thought folks would like to watch other people play video games lol 

Streaming is only getting bigger and bigger cause it can unify international viewing. 

 

Masters streaming was awesome. 

Barely any commercials and you don’t have to listen to Faldo or Nantz.

have multiple windows for the different holes, simply just golf.
 

 

Love the SIG.....!!!!

 

100% agree on the streaming, no commercials is sweet. 

 

TwitchTV is crazy. I was not aware of how big it really is until a few years back with the kid.  

 

The current model of the PGA (broadcasting) really does need to come into the modern times after this weekend.  What that is, no clue since that will be a huge debate too.   

 

I state the above from no golfers.  I had the PGAT / LIV on Saturday flipping back and forth on the TV.  Coming from two people who have no interest in playing golf or more so watching golf (wife/daughter) both said the LIV presentation was way better then the 3M broadcast by far.  I expected it from the daughter at her age, but the wife surprised me too. I was curious and asked why...? To them the PGA tour was  "flat", "slow", "nauseating" in presentation. The kid sadly stated and since I fit in the group it was eye opening..... "well it's like, like for old people"  😂

 

*Side note, honestly if you can get along with the voices in your head, it was pretty nice to have both.  While the PGAT ran its 6-8 mins of commercials every 12-15 mins (sad by the way)I just switched it over to LIV. Had constant golf which was nice.   

Edited August 1, 2022 by CDM

[Is Golf Fun or Work]

Personally, I'm starting to think LIV will make it in the long run.

This past weekends PGA event seemed like watching Korn Ferry v2, recognized about 5 names in the field.

[PhilsFanDrew]

5 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

The PGA Tour doesn't need saving - do the TV telecasts need some work ? Maybe ..

 

It's more than just the TV telecasts, at least to me.  When I first got bit with the golf bug 12 years ago I couldn't get enough of watching the PGA Tour.  But over the last 3-4 years I pretty much only tune in for Majors or flagship events.  I have no interest in tournaments like Fortinet, Sanderson Farms, 3M, Mayakoba, etc.  The season is too long and there are too many of the same venues that aren't worthy of just being gifted an annual PGA Tour event. Sorry I don't see why TPC Deere Run, TPC River Highland, Sedgefield, etc get to host a tournament every year.  

[TM4me]

1 hour ago, cardia10 said:

Previous world rankings don't support that argument. A little easier to win on tour now that all the LIV guys are gone. The 2nd tier cream is rising to the top. Remember, these guys are winning the 3M Dairy Queen Open, not the Masters. 

I'll bet one of my foursome (Tony Finau, Will Zalatoris, Cameron Young and Max Homa) win a major before any current LIV player wins (another) one.

Edited August 1, 2022 by TM4me

[aus10KC]

Hearing rumblings of a lawsuit very soon by LIV so their players can play in the FEDEX Cup. Similar to what happened with the Scottish Open and some players suing to get into in. Probably hoping for a temporary stay like in Europe while it runs its course through the courts.

 

 

[drumdude96]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Sounding more and more like the PGA Tour ...

Indeed. But still different, and "louder". 🤣

[idrive]

1 hour ago, cardia10 said:

Previous world rankings don't support that argument. A little easier to win on tour now that all the LIV guys are gone. The 2nd tier cream is rising to the top. Remember, these guys are winning the 3M Dairy Queen Open, not the Masters. 

 

No I'm not going to waste my time looking it up but just glancing at the guys on liv, I don't remember any of those guys winning a tourny the couple of years. Only a couple have a win in the last 3-4 years.

 

Over the last 4 years Stenson has made approx. 20% of the cuts.  Wins his 1st time out at Bedmin. To me that just points out how weak the field is. DJ is the only one that could win on the PGAT, including the Dairy Queen.

[BottleCap]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

Here is David Hill, LIV consultant, former Fox Sports EVP, on the challenges of golf viewing demographics,

 

“How long do we have? Here’s the horrendous truth about golf,” Hill told “The Ourand and Marchand Sports Media Podcast” earlier this week. “The last figures I saw about golf, 50 percent of the television audience was 65+, which means they’re dead in 25 years. Seventy-eight percent was 50+. So what does that tell you? The audience is dying.”

 

https://golf.com/news/david-hill-liv-golf-horrendous-truth-charles-barkley/?amp=1

 

I guess this tells us there can be two distinct products for two distinct segments for people that are interested in watching this type of golf, Tour Golf.

 

I'm thinking the young ones may be more interested in the Good Good stuff.

[PorkChopExpress]

1 hour ago, CDM said:

 

Love the SIG.....!!!!

 

100% agree on the streaming, no commercials is sweet. 

 

TwitchTV is crazy. I was not aware of how big it really is until a few years back with the kid.  

 

The current model of the PGA (broadcasting) really does need to come into the modern times after this weekend.  What that is, no clue since that will be a huge debate too.   

 

I state the above from no golfers.  I had the PGAT / LIV on Saturday flipping back and forth on the TV.  Coming from two people who have no interest in playing golf or more so watching golf (wife/daughter) both said the LIV presentation was way better then the 3M broadcast by far.  I expected it from the daughter at her age, but the wife surprised me too. I was curious and asked why...? To them the PGA tour was  "flat", "slow", "nauseating" in presentation. The kid sadly stated and since I fit in the group it was eye opening..... "well it's like, like for old people"  😂

 

*Side note, honestly if you can get along with the voices in your head, it was pretty nice to have both.  While the PGAT ran its 6-8 mins of commercials every 12-15 mins (sad by the way)I just switched it over to LIV. Had constant golf which was nice.   

 

Kids are so transparent "You Old" hahahahaha

Yup

 

Same reason all the country clubs are trying to get younger folks in (and they've been trying for a long time), the older folks aren't gonna be around and the percentage of their kids/grandkids joining the same club is shrinking more and more.

 

Still wondering what will happen with the LIV startup lol

Will it be like Facebook and keep growing (cause everyone hates them hahaha), or will it be like Theranos - hahahaha