LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[bcjim]

53 minutes ago, ahenderX said:

I find it odd people support a monarch’s business strategy of ‘we will destroy what you have created unless you give us a piece of the action’. That’s where we are. I say to heck with them. Rahm clearly showed that a person will lie, and lie some more for the right dollar amount.  His new ‘reasoning’ is he grew up playing team golf, it’s what he loves, and that’s a primary reason he went to LIV. What a load of nonsense. LIV has perfected player propaganda. 

Agreed. That is complete and utter horse💩

 

"I like it so much I refused to do it for 200million dollars"  

[aus10KC]

2 hours ago, Golfinfloridaafter40 said:

Most people watch on the LIV app, I would imagine.  I can't see why you would watch anywhere else, since it is free and casts right to any screen you want.

 

They had 90k people in attendance in Australia. Mexico is a place many are avoiding due to the horrific crimes that have been happening, so I don't put much stock into that. You don't want them to gain eyeballs and marketshare but that does not make it true.  No matter how many hissy fits you throw, what's happening is happening

 

LIV golf app only has between 50k and 100k downloads on Android. Not sure on apple but let's presume the same.

 

I think you have to pay for it too... If this is the way most watch, then I'd probably presume they don't have many people watching.

Edited February 6 by aus10KC

[wedgegame]

4 hours ago, Golfinfloridaafter40 said:

This statement is a fact, for now.  The one I bolded before is most definitely not. The fact is, LIV keeps gaining market-share and eyeballs each tournament that passes.  You missed a hell of a broadcast on Sunday, the golf was top notch and so was the production.  The guys in contention got more air time than they would have in a PGA event.  Besides, the average PGA event's viewership has dropped every years for many years in a row. It is what it is, you are missing out on amazing golf and wasting your own time crying about it on here like so many others who live with misplaced hate.  The rest of us are enjoying the ride and celebrating the game of golf winning

 

You sure about that? 

 

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/pga-tour-2023-season-us-tv-viewers-audience-ratings-nbc-cbs-golf-channel/?zephr_sso_ott=dlvLGG

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2023/08/29/cbs-sports-tv-pga-tour-numbers-up/

 

https://www.paramountpressexpress.com/cbs-sports/releases/?view=108402-cbs-sports-coverage-of-2023-pga-tour-season-sets-viewership-milestones-across-platforms#:~:text=For the season%2C CBS averaged,2022 (2.545 million viewers).

[woahnelly]

8 hours ago, notsohard said:

LIV know that....Hovland  got thrown an offer, thought about it and said no. Hovland got thrown a bigger offer, liked it...but... now Hovland has been shown what no golfer could ever make on the PGAT......interesting times..........

 

Hovland needs to get exempt into the majors first. Then Metal GC will be born.

 

 

 

[freeze16172002]

22 minutes ago, aus10KC said:

 

LIV golf app only has between 50k and 100k downloads on Android. Not sure on apple but let's presume the same.

 

I think you have to pay for it too... If this is the way most watch, then I'd probably presume they don't have many people watching.

Its the third year of the experiment. There are a few constants 200k-300k viewers no matter how much LIV throws at it. If you told Norman three years ago he will spend billions and have 300k viewers to show for it, he would have laughed in your face but here we are. There is a strong chance LIV will be closed out of a deal with the PGAT. Spieth has already made it clear they dont need them. Is Phil's and Dustin's contract up this year? Now what?

[freeze16172002]

11 minutes ago, woahnelly said:

 

Hovland needs to get exempt into the majors first. Then Metal GC will be born.

 

 

 

Metallica, that's like elevator music to him. Dark Death GC

[woahnelly]

4 minutes ago, freeze16172002 said:

Its the third year of the experiment. There are a few constants 200k-300k viewers no matter how much LIV throws at it. If you told Norman three years ago he will spend billions and have 300k viewers to show for it, he would have laughed in your face but here we are. There is a strong chance LIV will be closed out of a deal with the PGAT. Spieth has already made it clear they dont need them. Is Phil's and Dustin's contract up this year? Now what?

 

Phil will be promoted to "head ball washer" for Yasir on his business golf outings. 

[MtlJeff]

3 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

On demand is horrible for advertising revenue. You need events that people watch live. That’s a challenge for the LIV “it’s just shots and more shots” appeal to some.

 

Golf is an extremely boring sport for most people to play and even more boring for most to watch. Nothing LIV does can change that. 
 

You need viewers with the patience to “sit in front of the TV all day”, or for 2-3 hours anyway, to capture the 💰 potential that the pga tours high end advertisers covet (financial services, luxury cars, business consulting) 

 

This is proven to be done by the pga tours model to the tune of 1.5 billion/year in revenue. Because a golf tournament, like any other sports event, has a story. A beginning, the cadence and drama of the day, and an end. 
 

People set aside 2-3 hours to watch their teams play soccer, football, basketball. Live. Thats where the money is for advertisers, that’s the huge appeal for networks/media, live sports makes money vs on-demand viewed programming. 

 

Of course it’s all moot if LiV has no plans to ever actually make money lol 

 

There's a lot of good dialog here in both points. The main reason i watched LIV the first year (other than curiosity) was because of how easy it was. I could watch it on my phone while playing with my daughter in any room in our house, or even outside. Now that more big names are there, that plus ease of watching is mildly compelling, though i watch much less golf than i used to

 

But i also agree with you, even conceding that LIV is acting more like a young web company just looking for users on their platform. This might be a good viewer experience but it is pretty difficult to monetize (many tech'y companies have learned this) especially since a lot of the wealth is still controlled by ummmm, let's say, people more likely to need Cialis lol....and they still watch commercials and sports the old fashioned way....Boomers still got all the money!

 

But all of this is moot if they don't care about making money as you say. 

 

 

[Togatown22]

3 hours ago, Golfinfloridaafter40 said:

Absolutely right!  Anyone who disagrees has problems with themselves, not with LIV.  The product is good and getting better, plus what they are doing for the game is great!

Could one of you guys explain to me how this is better for fans?  Specifically fans who want to see elite competition amongst the highest performing and talented professional golfers?  I'm in it to watch the guys compete for the $$ and the trophies.  I like to watch how they perform under pressure.  We can all relate to that in some small way as golfers.   

So for me, it's really not better - from a fans perspective.  

[wedgegame]

10 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

There's a lot of good dialog here in both points. The main reason i watched LIV the first year (other than curiosity) was because of how easy it was. I could watch it on my phone while playing with my daughter in any room in our house, or even outside. Now that more big names are there, that plus ease of watching is mildly compelling, though i watch much less golf than i used to

 

But i also agree with you, even conceding that LIV is acting more like a young web company just looking for users on their platform. This might be a good viewer experience but it is pretty difficult to monetize (many tech'y companies have learned this) especially since a lot of the wealth is still controlled by ummmm, let's say, people more likely to need Cialis lol....and they still watch commercials and sports the old fashioned way....Boomers still got all the money!

 

But all of this is moot if they don't care about making money as you say. 

 

 

It also helps that it's all on one app vs spread out of multiple channels/apps.  I watched the Sky Sports UK PGAT feed to avoid that headache, but it's still another hoop to jump through just to watch a sporting event.

[tyland42]

2 hours ago, freeze16172002 said:

what did they win? 

 

They won widespread media coverage thanks to the negative and aggressive reaction from the PGA Tour and some of the players on the tour.

 

They won validation as the PGA tour tried to chase them with "Signature Events" and increased purses. (While the ball may have been rolling before LIV, it was not released until after LIV)  Is this a sustainable business model?  Wells Fargo doesn't think so and tapped out early.

 

They are currently winning as major PGA tour players that were angry do an about face and say that LIV is not so bad.

 

In summary, they won the respect of the PGA Tour, and that's something.

[pingbling23]

Ratings are increasing.  432k Americans on cw station for the final round.  Factor in the people watching online, from apps, and the tv networks around the world it’s an improvement.  

[woahnelly]

19 minutes ago, freeze16172002 said:

Metallica, that's like elevator music to him. Dark Death GC

 

That's a much better name, good call,  but it might perturb the tween audience LIV is trying to gain traction with. 

[Titleist99]

8 hours ago, notsohard said:

LIV know that....Hovland  got thrown an offer, thought about it and said no. Hovland got thrown a bigger offer, liked it...but... now Hovland has been shown what no golfer could ever make on the PGAT......interesting times..........

Wow! If the PGAT don't hurry up and find a way to retain their talent they'll be regulated to Korn Ferry status. 🤣 If that's the case, why do they need the PGAT?  (rhetorical)

[hackeraz]

1 hour ago, aus10KC said:

 

LIV golf app only has between 50k and 100k downloads on Android. Not sure on apple but let's presume the same.

 

I think you have to pay for it too... If this is the way most watch, then I'd probably presume they don't have many people watching.

I suspect most don't watch from the actual app, at least not here in NA. I've yet to even think about downloading their app but have downloaded the CW app on my tv as well as my mobile. I'll watch there or if I'm at the office I'll just go straight to youtube. I suspect their viewers, what few they have, are spread across all platforms. 

[King_Slender]

23 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

There's a lot of good dialog here in both points. The main reason i watched LIV the first year (other than curiosity) was because of how easy it was. I could watch it on my phone while playing with my daughter in any room in our house, or even outside. Now that more big names are there, that plus ease of watching is mildly compelling, though i watch much less golf than i used to

 

But i also agree with you, even conceding that LIV is acting more like a young web company just looking for users on their platform. This might be a good viewer experience but it is pretty difficult to monetize (many tech'y companies have learned this) especially since a lot of the wealth is still controlled by ummmm, let's say, people more likely to need Cialis lol....and they still watch commercials and sports the old fashioned way....Boomers still got all the money!

 

But all of this is moot if they don't care about making money as you say. 

 

 

 

I think the Silicon Valley startup analogy is a good one - and with an unlimited bankroll, Yasir may be able to keep plucking away enough players to keep gaining traction.  It's undeniable that the leaderboards on the PGA Tour have become less and less interesting over the past year.  

 

What if Yasir said to Spieth/Thomas/Fowler - Here's $1B - come over as a team to LIV?  I think the PGA Tour is literally about 10-15 players of the right status defecting from becoming completely irrelevant to the mainstream viewer.  

 

While I like LIV - it's just golf to me and I kind of dig the team aspect - there are some issues that they need to address:

• The music - whoop it up, have it playing for tee off if you want in certain tournaments, then shut it down.
• The Courses - people like golf for the legacy - we want to see Pebble and Riviera, not Las Vegas Country Club.  They will need to get onto more iconic courses if they want to grow viewer and attendee interest.  To that end, the music needs to go away - you're not going to get a tournament into iconic venues and then say "Oh yeah, we're bringing our sound system, too."
• A way to get into the majors.  If they can pull enough top players, I think that will sort itself out, but the Top 10 or whatever number is agreeable, should be getting invites to the majors. 

[Pops99]

No football on Sunday and no PGA golf due to weather. LIV viewership is less than pickleball.

 

A deeply unserious league. 

[KennyP]

32 minutes ago, pingbling23 said:

Ratings are increasing.  432k Americans on cw station for the final round.  Factor in the people watching online, from apps, and the tv networks around the world it’s an improvement.  

 

The rain at Pebble certainly helped with the viewing figures. I quite enjoyed it.

[bscinstnct]

30 minutes ago, pingbling23 said:

Ratings are increasing.  432k Americans on cw station for the final round.  Factor in the people watching online, from apps, and the tv networks around the world it’s an improvement.  

 

 

Agree it’s good

 

Too bad the pebble got rained out, be good to see how it would’ve compared, did a significant portion of people who watched liv watch because the PGA tour event was canceled Sunday? 
 

But overall I’d be liv didn’t get the equivalent of 1MM global viewers in some combination on Sunday. 
 

I put it on, didn’t watch, but would have watched more if BK, Rahm, and Cam were battling.

 

But the key is to merge the tours and get all the best guys playing together again somewhat regularly 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

1 hour ago, pingbling23 said:

Ratings are increasing.  432k Americans on cw station for the final round.  Factor in the people watching online, from apps, and the tv networks around the world it’s an improvement.  

Saturday LIV cw ratings were less than 1/10th of that of the PGAT. The only reason they got a bump in Sunday is the cancelation of Sunday's pga round. 

 

 

[woahnelly]

They still play the Pro Bowl? On my YouTube feed I saw they had a dodgeball contest and closest to the pin challenge. NFL will always be king 😂

[tyland42]

54 minutes ago, Pops99 said:

No football on Sunday and no PGA golf due to weather. LIV viewership is less than pickleball.

 

A deeply unserious league. 

 

Then why does the PGA Tour even recognize them?

[Louis_Posture]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

Wow! If the PGAT don't hurry up and find a way to retain their talent they'll be regulated to Korn Ferry status. 🤣 If that's the case, why do they need the PGAT?  (rhetorical)

I believe the PGA Tour can operate just fine on a smaller financial scale. For example, if more current big name players leave the PGA Tour , the Tour's corporate sponsors will pay less money to sponsor a Tour event, and prize money for each event will decrease.

Edited February 6 by Louis_Posture

[idrive]

1 hour ago, pingbling23 said:

Ratings are increasing.  432k Americans on cw station for the final round.  Factor in the people watching online, from apps, and the tv networks around the world it’s an improvement.  

 

The only reason they had more fans on Sunday is because Pebble was rained/blown out. It was the only option and considering it was the only option they should have had at the very least, double that.

 

EDIT: Apologies for the redundant post but the moderation time delay kind of screws things up.

Edited February 6 by idrive
redundant

[jdl]

23 hours ago, ahenderX said:

I have never understood the comparison between F1 and LIV Golf. 

 

Livbot wishcasting

 

20 hours ago, Golfinfloridaafter40 said:

Go watch or listen to it yourself and you will know

 

Nice laydown, Greg!

 

5 hours ago, freeze16172002 said:

so you imagine facts, got it

 

Hmm...@useGolfFACTS? 🤔

[mosesgolf]

23 minutes ago, idrive said:

 

The only reason they had more fans on Sunday is because Pebble was rained/blown out. It was the only option and considering it was the only option they should have had at the very least, double that.

 

EDIT: Apologies for the redundant post but the moderation time delay kind of screws things up.

Yup.  ONLY reason I watched LIV (for around 10min btw) was because Pebble got rained out.  Really looking forward to the WM lineup of Scotty, WC, Aberg go at it again.  These guys are just flat out fun and exciting to watch.  In all honesty there is very very very very very very little excitement going on at LIV events.  Didn't give one hoot about (forgot the guys name already) someone shooting 59 there.  But the 59 watch on Saturday at Pebble was NFL playoffs last second score to win to make it to the Superbowl level exciting.    

[wedgegame]

1 hour ago, King_Slender said:

 

I think the Silicon Valley startup analogy is a good one - and with an unlimited bankroll, Yasir may be able to keep plucking away enough players to keep gaining traction.  It's undeniable that the leaderboards on the PGA Tour have become less and less interesting over the past year.  

 

Is it really undeniable?  A hot prospect in Dunlap just won as an am last week, and this week we had another up and comer competing against a recent major winner.  Eric Cole was a great story last year, Aberg got his first win, Fowler, Day and Villegas had comeback wins, a Canadian won the Canadian Open for the first time ever resulting in Adam Hadwin getting the spear from a security guard.  All of this contributed to viewership growing year over year, so I would say that it is deniable, and in fact I would argue that it was more interesting than previous years despite the names that went to play on LIV.

 

Someone asked why people get annoyed with others hyping LIV and it's statements like these that do it for me.  LIV can't be talked about without taking shots at the PGA Tour or accompanied by statements that are disproven with just an ounce of research or basic observation.  And it's not hating on LIV to point out such statements.

 

As for the areas you identified where LIV needs to get better, I agree on all points.

Edited February 6 by wedgegame

[widow-maker]

2 hours ago, Togatown22 said:

Could one of you guys explain to me how this is better for fans?  Specifically fans who want to see elite competition amongst the highest performing and talented professional golfers?  I'm in it to watch the guys compete for the $$ and the trophies.  I like to watch how they perform under pressure.  We can all relate to that in some small way as golfers.   

So for me, it's really not better - from a fans perspective.  

No, it's not better.  I'm watching less PGA Tour golf and no LIV at all.  It's now down to watching the Majors and that's about it.  I don't know how that grows golf but that's what they want you to believe.  They've made it about the dollars and not about the competition.  

 

Even if money were the major factor in their playing, we at least had the illusion that the competition was what drove the best players.  Now we know that's not true in any sense and it's sobering.  I would have never thought that Jon Rahm would run away from the competition, but here we are.  It's just about the money and the Saudi's will spend whatever it takes.  Driving me away from it instead of toward it. 

[tyland42]

11 minutes ago, widow-maker said:

No, it's not better.  I'm watching less PGA Tour golf and no LIV at all.  It's now down to watching the Majors and that's about it.  I don't know how that grows golf but that's what they want you to believe.  They've made it about the dollars and not about the competition.  

 

Even if money were the major factor in their playing, we at least had the illusion that the competition was what drove the best players.  Now we know that's not true in any sense and it's sobering.  I would have never thought that Jon Rahm would run away from the competition, but here we are.  It's just about the money and the Saudi's will spend whatever it takes.  Driving me away from it instead of toward it. 

 

I second this.  Great post.

 

[PhilsFanDrew]

2 hours ago, Togatown22 said:

Could one of you guys explain to me how this is better for fans?  Specifically fans who want to see elite competition amongst the highest performing and talented professional golfers?  I'm in it to watch the guys compete for the $$ and the trophies.  I like to watch how they perform under pressure.  We can all relate to that in some small way as golfers.   

So for me, it's really not better - from a fans perspective.  

 

It's better that I get to see big name golfers on the course at the same time and I don't need to dedicate all day to follow a golf tournament.  So many tournaments you have bigger names teeing off early because they aren't in contention and you only get to see a couple of their shots if you subscribe to ESPN+ and are watching coverage at 10AM.  With LIV some of the bigger names may be out of contention for the individual title but if there team is jockeying for position in the team title then I will see their shots as they still have meaning.