LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Titleist99]

2 hours ago, CDM said:

He was Dean's pet is all, got the job by attrition.  Plus it was during Tiger's heyday....anyone on this forum could have done the job...

This is hilarious... 🤣  Are you saying that anyone on this WRX site can broker Billion dollar deals with Media Companies, domestic and international?

[Danielson]

10 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

This is hilarious... 🤣  Are you saying that anyone on this WRX site can broker Billion dollar deals with Media Companies, domestic and international?

 

 

Absolutely. You just send them a picture of Tiger as Santa Claus, and request a blank check back.

 

In reality, selling ads and setting up partnerships in the Tiger era was likely one of the easier jobs for a sports "commissioner" regardless of the fact that not anybody off the streets could do it.

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

I like match play.  Let's not kid ourselves here though, the same issues there are with match play for the PGAT would be there for LIV.  It doesn't translate well to TV.  The "stars" can be out and done early.  And in the US, match play is dying in the sense that incredibly rarely would you find a Saturday morning group of four playing match play.  I have never seen it at a public course and rarely at a private clubs.

 

The stars don’t get knocked out. They play matches every day and just make points for winning.

 

Theres actually a lot of colorful personalities, Poulter etc. have them matched up against each other and make it a lot more interesting

 

The viewers would be triple what they have now because you’d always have a great “final group” 

 

In fact, you have two or three of them!

[Titleist99]

22 minutes ago, Danielson said:

 

 

Absolutely. You just send them a picture of Tiger as Santa Claus, and request a blank check back.

 

In reality, selling ads and setting up partnerships in the Tiger era was likely one of the easier jobs for a sports "commissioner" regardless of the fact that not anybody off the streets could do it.

You guys will never convince me that the PGAT Commissioner's job is so easy that "even a caveman can do it"..... 🤣

[subrew]

2 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

LIV streams Friday rounds live on YouTube. 

 

And on the LIV App and on the CW App.  There are three places to watch Friday LIV rounds, and I do, and I never once considered Caffeine TV when choosing.  This is a nothing burger.

[Pops99]

They announce 4.5 million/billion people watched on their app and then they fold a few months later.

 

This is why people are laughing at LIV for this. Just wildly inflated numbers for everything. Absolute clownshow. 

[dcmidnight]

19 minutes ago, subrew said:

 

And on the LIV App and on the CW App.  There are three places to watch Friday LIV rounds, and I do, and I never once considered Caffeine TV when choosing.  This is a nothing burger.

 

Its an absolute something burger if you spend months telling people/claiming that millions and millions of people are watching on your app. If that was actually true then you probably wouldn't fold. And if it is true - then those millions of people are going to need some place to go and I should expect a significant bump from the 15-20k who are watching on YT when I tune in on Fridays.

 

Their whole announcement seemed phony - hey here are all the reasons we are wildly successful...except for we're closing up shop.

Edited Thursday at 04:49 PM by dcmidnight

[CasualLie]

Not to give any credit to Jay.  As with many leaders, your mistakes are way more magnified than your successes, so Jay has to own it; that's why he gets the big bucks.  Unlike many other CEOs who have a big blunder, Jay still has his job.  So as much bellyaching as you hear from players, Jay is still there.  That's all we need to know as to whether he is the right guy or not.

 

Now the Saudis...sure, hindsight is 20/20, but there are plenty of playbooks and past lessons to learn from to know you just don't show up at the front door with "endless" cash and think you can buy anything you want.  As @BlackDiamondPar5 pointed out in his list, #1, hiring Norman, was a major blunder.  Norman is at the same time the reason LIV has had the little traction/success it has, and the reason why it is currently failing.

 

Hiring Norman, and the bold approach to force this new league/team concept down the throats of the fans - a really bad combo.  Had they been more subtle and let go of the team approach, things could be a lot different now.  But I get it....while ARum loves golf, clearly he does not know golf, and was easily swayed by some bad advice.  He can afford it.  But I suspect he knows the path to his end goals is a lot more crooked than it needed to be.

 

Saudis/PIF...whomever was speaking up at the time, tipped their hand too early.  Jay / PGAT was a bit arrogant and not really paying a lot of attention when they were already allowing players to play in three non-PGAT tour sanctioned events funded by the Saudis.  Sure, they were corralling it a bit, but were more than happy to let it go a few years ago when those events were co-sanctioned by DP Tour, and $5M purses.  Some of the big names went not for the purse, but the appearance fee.

 

By talking a "new league" this woke up PGAT and hence, the new deal with DP.  The three Saudi events were no longer co-sanctioned.  The battle lines were starting and really, what PIF should have done is slow play it.  But instead they tried to force their way in by doing a deal with the Asian Tour.  I am sure they knew the confrontation was going to happen sooner or later, but later would have been much better.

 

Saudis could have kept quiet, and reacted to losing the co-sanctioning with DP for their events and simply came across as no big deal, we still love golf, our events are early in the season, so we are going to keep them going and make the purse $25M each.  No talk of a league, no talk of a team.  Just let the $ do the talking.  PGAT would have been in a tough spot, while trying to save face, they could not really deny players going to play in those events.

 

Year 2, Saudis "quietly" add 2 more x $25M events.  No league, no teams, just a fat purse event.  They would have got the same number, and likely more, of the big names to play.  No wild headlines of $200M contracts to Phil, just standing pat, having a fun golf tournament.  You can be sure, at this time, PGAT comes to the table.  They can't threaten players, because they are still playing the required events, but they also know they can't keep up with the purses.  You can also be sure, Saudis won't have to go to TV networks, the networks will come to them.

 

Year 3, still no talks? Then Saudis add another 2 events.  Still no league, no teams, just having some fun with big money golf.  The finger pointing, and the threats would be unavoidable at this point.  But what could PGAT do?  If they make the wrong move, a player is going to sue.

 

End of Year 3, still no talks?  Now the Saudis can announce a 10 tournament series, escalating purses, and the real kicker, still no league but any player who plays in X events gets a bonus.  Have a points system on the side for bonus payout.  Larger fields, no teams, and no membership required.

 

Where do you think golf would be in 2024 had the Saudis did this instead back in 2020?  At the least, I think PIF / ARum gets what it wanted in the beginning for a lot less money than they are spending now.  A lot less than what they will need to spend to keep this sinking ship afloat.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 04:58 PM by CasualLie

[BlackDiamondPar5]

13 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

 

Jay's - none.

 So if Jay has done nothing right lets hear what LIV has gotten right.  

[bscinstnct]

Google trends worldwide includes the Nashville event

 

The Bryson US Open win did not translate to increased interest in Nashville. Actually looks like interest in Nashville was lowest of all events this year.

 

 

[Danielson]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

You guys will never convince me that the PGAT Commissioner's job is so easy that "even a caveman can do it"..... 🤣

 

Well if you want to misinterpret what's being said, then yeah you will never be convinced! It's very convenient that way.

[dalehead]

20 hours ago, CasualLie said:

Not sure what kind of "leverage" BDC, Brooks, and the other big names have in renegotiating contracts.  It's not like the PGAT is on record with a compelling welcome back plan.  And the "big names" are team owners so in a way they are kind of stuck with what PIF wants.   For all we know, it is in the contract that if they leave LIV, they forfeit team ownership.

 

 

I think the PGAT would say they welcome the big names back to stick it to LIV. Then it’s up to PIF to either let them go or come up with more millions to sign them. Forfeiting team ownership is meaningless. The team franchise value was supposed to be a billion dollars, but since no one has come forward to buy one the current value is zero.

[cdnglf]

2 hours ago, Danielson said:

 

 

Absolutely. You just send them a picture of Tiger as Santa Claus, and request a blank check back.

 

In reality, selling ads and setting up partnerships in the Tiger era was likely one of the easier jobs for a sports "commissioner" regardless of the fact that not anybody off the streets could do it.

Monahan was post-Tiger, of course.

Edited Thursday at 05:50 PM by cdnglf

[bekgolf]

7 minutes ago, dalehead said:

I think the PGAT would say they welcome the big names back to stick it to LIV. Then it’s up to PIF to either let them go or come up with more millions to sign them. Forfeiting team ownership is meaningless. The team franchise value was supposed to be a billion dollars, but since no one has come forward to buy one the current value is zero.

 

I thought team ownership was a liability.  Some time ago I read that teams would start to be responsible for travel and room costs.

[Ghost of Snead]

25 minutes ago, Danielson said:

 

Well if you want to misinterpret what's being said, then yeah you will never be convinced! It's very convenient that way.

 

Clue us in as to how someone could misinterpret this statement - 

 

"He was Dean's pet is all, got the job by attrition.  Plus it was during Tiger's heyday....anyone on this forum could have done the job..."

 

Who did all of the legwork to broker sponsor deals in the events Tiger didn't play in ?  Must have been someone on this forum. 

  

[Titleist99]

26 minutes ago, Danielson said:

 

Well if you want to misinterpret what's being said, then yeah you will never be convinced! It's very convenient that way.

One guy says that a Forum member could be a Commissioner.

 

Another guy says that Tiger's presence made the job plug and play (paraphrasing)

 

That sounds like both say the commissioner's job is a piece of cake.  

 

What am I misinterpreting?

 

Let me be clear, I think that Jay Monohan is a great Commissioner and nobody finds revenue like him. Don't believe me, check his resume...

[CasualLie]

1 minute ago, bekgolf said:

 

I thought team ownership was a liability.  Some time ago I read that teams would start to be responsible for travel and room costs.

 

While we have not seen an actual contract, it is widely reported the principal players (Phil, Rahm, BDC, etc...) got 25% ownership of the team.  So even if the "team" is picking up expenses, the captain is getting $750K for a win.  I doubt Rahm spent $750K fronting his team in Nashville.  

[ronsc1985]

1 hour ago, dcmidnight said:

 

Its an absolute something burger if you spend months telling people/claiming that millions and millions of people are watching on your app. If that was actually true then you probably wouldn't fold. And if it is true - then those millions of people are going to need some place to go and I should expect a significant bump from the 15-20k who are watching on YT when I tune in on Fridays.

 

Their whole announcement seemed phony - hey here are all the reasons we are wildly successful...except for we're closing up shop.

You do realize that friday LIV was a small part of companies total package that failed.  Or maybe you don't.

[Danielson]

34 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

One guy says that a Forum member could be a Commissioner.

 

Another guy says that Tiger's presence made the job plug and play (paraphrasing)

 

That sounds like both say the commissioner's job is a piece of cake.  

 

What am I misinterpreting?

 

Let me be clear, I think that Jay Monohan is a great Commissioner and nobody finds revenue like him. Don't believe me, check his resume...

 

I forgot how much of a troll you are, that's on me!

[Titleist99]

42 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Clue us in as to how someone could misinterpret this statement - 

 

"He was Dean's pet is all, got the job by attrition.  Plus it was during Tiger's heyday....anyone on this forum could have done the job..."

 

Who did all of the legwork to broker sponsor deals in the events Tiger didn't play in ?  Must have been someone on this forum. 

  

Once these guys get their talking point for the day, there's no stopping them.🤣

[Titleist99]

2 minutes ago, Danielson said:

 

I forgot how much of a troll you are, that's on me!

I am not a LIVer.  please feel free to put me on ignore.🤣

[bscinstnct]

36 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

 

While we have not seen an actual contract, it is widely reported the principal players (Phil, Rahm, BDC, etc...) got 25% ownership of the team.  So even if the "team" is picking up expenses, the captain is getting $750K for a win.  I doubt Rahm spent $750K fronting his team in Nashville.  

 

No but he did send Chipotle 🌯 to all his guys at the hotel

 

And chips!

 

No guac though 🤣

[Titleist99]

46 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Clue us in as to how someone could misinterpret this statement - 

 

"He was Dean's pet is all, got the job by attrition.  Plus it was during Tiger's heyday....anyone on this forum could have done the job..."

 

Who did all of the legwork to broker sponsor deals in the events Tiger didn't play in ?  Must have been someone on this forum. 

  

Danny called me a troll for saying the same thing, welcome to the club..... 🤣🤣

[jdl]

6 hours ago, smashdn said:

I like match play.  Let's not kid ourselves here though, the same issues there are with match play for the PGAT would be there for LIV.  It doesn't translate well to TV.  The "stars" can be out and done early.  And in the US, match play is dying in the sense that incredibly rarely would you find a Saturday morning group of four playing match play.  I have never seen it at a public course and rarely at a private clubs.

Yet of course we love match play at the Ryder Cup. And moving to match play for the NCAA finals was the way they got Golf Channel on board to cover that event. So in situations, it does work for fans but the key seems to be the teams. People of course care about their country/continent or university team and that's why those events work. Just don't think there's really a path to get people to care enough about the LIV teams to the point where match play is compelling. We golf nerds here like match play but the general sports population isn't going to tune in.

Edited Thursday at 09:20 PM by jdl

[notsohard]

4 hours ago, Pops99 said:

They announce 4.5 million/billion people watched on their app and then they fold a few months later.

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story...ay?

4.5 million people in Asia viewed the app over 3 days.

Asia has a population of 4.8 billion.

There you go, that wasn't hard. 

[bobfoster]

So LIV is still a thing? 🤣

[bcjim]

20 minutes ago, notsohard said:

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story...ay?

4.5 million people in Asia viewed the app over 3 days.

Asia has a population of 4.8 billion.

There you go, that wasn't hard. 

laughable

[Titleist99]

31 minutes ago, bobfoster said:

So LIV is still a thing? 🤣

Expect another 1/2 Billion dollar signing very soon........ 🤣

[MaineMariner]

31 minutes ago, notsohard said:

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story...ay?

4.5 million people in Asia viewed the app over 3 days.

Asia has a population of 4.8 billion.

There you go, that wasn't hard. 

LIV didn’t say that 4.5 people in Asia “viewed the app” over three days. LIV claimed that 4.5 million people watched the Jeddah event through Caffeine, for a total of 6 million viewers across all of their platforms.

 

Come on, let’s at least be intellectually honest with each other here. The likely story is that, if the 4.5 million number is accurate, it was akin to Twitter “impressions” - if you scroll past something but linger for a couple seconds, you’re counted as a “view.” 

[idrive]

2 hours ago, notsohard said:

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story...ay?

4.5 million people in Asia viewed the app over 3 days.

Asia has a population of 4.8 billion.

There you go, that wasn't hard. 

 

Me thinks someone posting this can toss any credibility they might have had out the window.

 

Die hard liv fans on this forum haven't heard of caffeine. You want us to believe the Asian population has?

 

IF they had those ratings they wouldn't have folded.