LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[bobfoster]

2 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

Expect another 1/2 Billion dollar signing very soon........ 🤣

Totally. And they can play in shorts! But apparently the drones are becoming a problem or something? (I read that in the NY Post.) But who cares about the golf if you get 9 figures, right?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

3 hours ago, notsohard said:

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story...ay?

4.5 million people in Asia viewed the app over 3 days.

Asia has a population of 4.8 billion.

There you go, that wasn't hard. 

^^^^NOT TRUE! 

 

Edited Friday at 01:23 AM by BlackDiamondPar5

[Ghost of Snead]

1 minute ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

NOT TRUE! 

 

 

What's a few zeroes among friends ? 

[JungleJimbo]

 

 

[billyspan]

On 6/26/2024 at 2:07 PM, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Below is a fraction of the list of mistakes made by PIF, Arum and the King. 

 

1. Putting Norman in charge. 

2. Thinking team golf is a draw. 

3. Thinking a closed shop, no cut would be interesting. 

4. Thinking hasbeens and neverwere's interest fans.

5. Thinking money can buy respect and image. 

6. Thinking money can buy a membership at Augusta. 

7. Entrusting Phil Mickelson then only to be a victim of his big mouth. 

8. Thinking big payday for players buys fan interest. 

9. Thinking they could dictate the rules and bully for OWGR status. 

 

I'm just getting started but I'll stop there. 

 

Solid points.  Appreciate the post.  For me it is:

 

Music

Shorts

Shotgun Start

 

Feels like the member-guest... entertainment sure, but not a serious competition 

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

^^^^NOT TRUE! 

 

Yeah! But $299 value has to be ranked somewhere.  That’s better than LIV players get! 🤣

[billyspan]

10 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

One guy says that a Forum member could be a Commissioner.

 

Another guy says that Tiger's presence made the job plug and play (paraphrasing)

 

That sounds like both say the commissioner's job is a piece of cake.  

 

What am I misinterpreting?

 

Let me be clear, I think that Jay Monohan is a great Commissioner and nobody finds revenue like him. Don't believe me, check his resume...

An increase in playing opportunities and purses for the players.  JM has gotten things done for the constituents. I don't love everything as a consumer and PGA Tour traditionalist, but he is checking the right boxes to more than keep his job.

[Cactus Jack]

10 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

Once these guys get their talking point for the day, there's no stopping them.🤣

Talking points? How about Jay drafts them like he did for Tiger. Only this time I hope they don’t become public like the trove of anti-trust legal docs the PGAT hopes everyone forgets about. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/tiger-woods-denies-knowledge-of-leaked-talking-points-memo-aimed-at-supporting-pga-tour-criticizing-liv-golf/

[idrive]

6 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

Talking points? How about Jay drafts them like he did for Tiger. Only this time I hope they don’t become public like the trove of anti-trust legal docs the PGAT hopes everyone forgets about. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/tiger-woods-denies-knowledge-of-leaked-talking-points-memo-aimed-at-supporting-pga-tour-criticizing-liv-golf/

 

What does this have to do with anything? The boss of a business wants an employee to support said business.

 

Keep reaching Jack and bring up articles that are a year old.

[bscinstnct]

AP-Jon Rahm, missing for 6-months has been spotted by photographers much to the relief of his fans 

 

 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

11 hours ago, Cactus Jack said:

Talking points? How about Jay drafts them like he did for Tiger. Only this time I hope they don’t become public like the trove of anti-trust legal docs the PGAT hopes everyone forgets about. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/tiger-woods-denies-knowledge-of-leaked-talking-points-memo-aimed-at-supporting-pga-tour-criticizing-liv-golf/

Wanna talk about "talking points"--- here's an example from LIV management. It doesn't even closely resemble reality.

 

Oh and I'm still waiting for Jay bashers.  Tell us what LIV leadership has done right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yet data doesn't lie...

Edited Friday at 04:21 PM by BlackDiamondPar5

[Togatown22]

23 hours ago, Danielson said:

 

Well if you want to misinterpret what's being said, then yeah you will never be convinced! It's very convenient that way.

I was kind of interested in what you meant to say / some clarity on it - are you knocking Finchem or Jay?  

By the time Jay took over, any advertiser knew they weren't getting prime Tiger, it was 2017 right?

[Titleist99]

12 hours ago, billyspan said:

An increase in playing opportunities and purses for the players.  JM has gotten things done for the constituents. I don't love everything as a consumer and PGA Tour traditionalist, but he is checking the right boxes to more than keep his job.

100%.

 

Plus, the fact that he recently received a raise. I don't know if it was contractual, merit, or both but he's still there. Eventually, the real story will come out about that about-face concerning the framework agreement.   IMO .........he said that it was to stop the lawsuits, etc.... but I think that it was chasing revenue.

[Titleist99]

47 minutes ago, Togatown22 said:

I was kind of interested in what you meant to say / some clarity on it - are you knocking Finchem or Jay?  

By the time Jay took over, any advertiser knew they weren't getting prime Tiger, it was 2017 right?

100% Correct,.... that's when Monahan took over as commissioner. Tiger went on a mini run in 2018-2019 which included the Masters win. Monaghan went on to negotiate a new media deal domestic and international for $9B which was a 400% increase from the previous deal. JM also secured a deal with SSg for $3B and created a new Enterprise for the members. JM is currently in talks with PIF for $3B in revenue/investments. 

 

My assumption based on JM comments is that there are other investment in the waiting.

 

**** Now somebody (NOT YOU) 🤣🤣tell me how JM is doing a bad job......... I'll wait.🤣🤣

[CasualLie]

15 hours ago, JungleJimbo said:

 

 

 

Thanks for posting.  Not a LIV fan, not a Greg Norman fan, but I did sit through the 24 minutes.  Obviously, it's going to be a "puff piece", but even disregarding all that, it is an interesting point of view on golf.   LIV as GN describes it, sure is an ambitious set of ideas, that's for sure.  Will it all work out?  It depends on a lot, but primarily depends on one crucial ingredient - continued capital investment despite the losses.  It would be interesting to get a look at the LIV financials, but we know that's never going to happen.  And we also know any numbers reported/leaked are phony unless they are audited (and we know that's phony too for as long as LIV remains a private company).

 

The one thing GN said that rang truer than anything else was something along the lines "this model has never been done before".  What an understatement.  While GN was talking about "growing golf", the "model" I do not think has ever been done before is bankroll $Billions in losses while trying to grow a business in sports.  Comparatively speaking, Amazon reported ten years of cumulative losses of $3B before having an equal amount of revenue in one year.   Seems like PIF is racking up losses at a much faster rate.  

 

Still, as long as PIF wants to bankroll LIV, then yes, they are here to stay.  And perhaps one day they turn a corner and get very profitable.  But this has much more to do with a diversified offering - golf courses, real estate, franchise fees, etc...

 

There are two conversations re: LIV, very distinct.  One is about the players, the format, the tournaments.  Is this good for professional golf?  Are we seeing golf at the highest levels?  This is the headline grabbing stuff.  And clearly, no matter where you stand, professional golf at the highest level is a mess.

 

The other conversation is about golf as an industry.  GN is no dummy, and neither are his investor friends.  So, I give them a better than 50-50 chance to succeed in the golf industry internationally, particularly Asia.  But this conversation, while not headline grabbing, is full of controversy as well.  On the outside it looks all peachy, GN spins a great tale.  But you know there will be some "investors" (ahem...tax payers) who are not going to get what they thought they were.  There will be some governments not exactly getting the return they thought they would.  And there will be some corruption (see 1MDB).

 

Insert cliche - "it will be interesting to see what turns out".  Not really, but good fodder for a discussion board though.

 

 

[PedronNiall]

4 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

Comparatively speaking, Amazon reported ten years of cumulative losses of $3B before having an equal amount of revenue in one year.   Seems like PIF is racking up losses at a much faster rate.  

 

That comparison has been brought up multiple times. Bezos & Co. sat in a boardroom and said let's spend billions to take losses that will allow us to acquire the majority of every market we're in then laugh all the way to the bank when we're the only game in town and we raise our prices. It's the same as Walmart's loss leader game, which is almost impossible to compete with in the long run. 

 

LIV isn't undercutting anyone and gobbling up market share with a easy to see break even point after which the profits roll in; they spent more on a few golfers to no end than the PGA spends for the entirety of its operating budget. They don't offer a substitute set of products at a lower cost to entice the majority of consumers nor do they offer anything novel that other brands simply weren't catering to. There's nothing new about LIV; it's exactly like any venture before it that's been fueled by arrogance and deep pockets, destined to fail if things don't change. 

 

Like other similar ventures it also has someone behind the scenes who's happy to let the front man and all the cogs in the wheel take the fall so long as he gets what he wants. If the PGA/PIF deal ever actually happens Norman will have to scoot back off into his den of irrelevancy and the real puppet master will get his wish for SA to be a fixture of global golf, albeit in one of the most costly ways it could have been done. They're also hemorrhaging money into their Aramco events and trying to take over women's golf ineffectively. 

 

That said, there's still an entire US government that could put a halt to it in the end. We'll see how it all shakes out. 

[bobfoster]

LIV:

 

[notsohard]

 

[CDM]

On 6/27/2024 at 6:57 PM, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

 So if Jay has done nothing right lets hear what LIV has gotten right.  

 

What have they gotten wrong is the counter?  Everyone keeps talking golf and one day it will sink this is business.

 

I honestly don't like either now as noted prior but I do find it interesting how from a business side that PIF has played this. 

 

Risky...!!! It ls a hefty gamble ....like playing poker.  PGAT has $1000 in chips and PIF  has $10 Million.  PGAT has 4 of a kind....LIV hoping on the river to hit a straight flush....!  Yet seeming to stack the deck in favor.

 

Still TBD on a final deal but since LIV started. In the current 2.5-3.0 year process they sure seem to be closer to what they want.... 

 

1. No one on here said they would ever sign top players. Everyone said they would never last more than a year.  No LIV player would win a major as they are "washed" up....

 

2. One year after "We will NEVER talk to the PIF" Tv speach at the CAN Open by Jay.... we have the shocking  announcement of frame work deal that even the players had no knowledge of....which is sad honestly 

 

3. We have PGAT players openly stating they dont have trust for Jay.  He needs to "own" his actions.  Creating a bad image 

 

4. Jay telling everyone that the SSG deal was needed to keep the PGAT  moving as they could not survive the structure they set up fiscally.  More so the SSG deal WAS done with the PIF planned to be part of it.

 

LIV  response every time is what they have done wrong is "waste money".  That's really it ....though mainly about the $$$$$ spent there is a number of don't like the product.  

 

Does anyone really think PIF did not know what it would cost or time to get some form of what they wanted?

 

Hide sight is always 20/20 but it was crystal clear they were not going away. 

 

Jay ignored them and they used $$$$ to leverage it all and many can say they wasted the $$$$ but this is a corporate game.... not golf. 

 

I would advise if think that is wrong then take some college business classes.....this has been economics 101.

Edited Saturday at 04:05 PM by CDM

[Cactus Jack]

 

This would be awesome. Chambers Bay is incredible. Securing a few world class courses in the US would certainly be a win. Golf is unique in that many of us like to see the course as much as the play. In many ways the courses on the PGAT are the real stars. 
 

 

Edited Saturday at 11:18 PM by Cactus Jack

[Ghost of Snead]

8 hours ago, CDM said:

 

1. No one on here said they would ever sign top players. Everyone said they would never last more than a year.  No LIV player would win a major as they are "washed" up....

 

 

Generalize much ?  Statements like this stop me from taking anything in your post seriously. 

[Archimedes65]

19 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Generalize much ?  Statements like this stop me from taking anything in your post seriously. 

 

He’s just making’ stuff up.  The LIV crowd has no choice but to be spin doctors at this point, with so little progress made other than lighting a lot of money on fire.

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

This would be awesome. Chambers Bay is incredible. Securing a few world class courses in the US would certainly be a win. Golf is unique in that many of us like to see the course as much as the play. In many ways the courses on the PGAT are the real stars. 
 

 

Yeah…what an awesome opportunity to grow the game in a country that gets no professional golf.  Hooray!🤯

[Cactus Jack]

53 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Yeah…what an awesome opportunity to grow the game in a country that gets no professional golf.  Hooray!🤯

I hear you, but how often does the PGAT showcase PNW courses? Not often. There are so many great courses like Chambers Bay that are absolute gems.
 

LIV is global and will continue to play a number of North American events. Hosting events at Chambers Bay and equivalent courses will be a major upgrade. Due to their limited schedule securing signature locations should be a very high priority. 

[Opie Taylor]

The Saudi are winning and folks don't like it, we get it. 
Rory will be on LIV in 2025. 

[bekgolf]

3 minutes ago, Opie Taylor said:

The Saudi are winning and folks don't like it, we get it. 
Rory will be on LIV in 2025. 

 

What are they winning?  Is it the biggest burn pile of paper money?  Even if they had all of the players it wouldn't be watchable.  If it's the only form of golf on tv it's still not going to have viewers.  Maybe they could give the money being burned for liv to the Red Cross or another charity organization?

[Opie Taylor]

5 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

What are they winning?  Is it the biggest burn pile of paper money?  Even if they had all of the players it wouldn't be watchable.  If it's the only form of golf on tv it's still not going to have viewers.  Maybe they could give the money being burned for liv to the Red Cross or another charity organization?

I watch it. 

[ThinkingPlus]

2 minutes ago, Opie Taylor said:

I watch it. 

You're being paid.

[leezer99]

9 minutes ago, Opie Taylor said:

I watch it. 

No offense but who watches golf at all anymore? I have the pga tour on Thursday and Friday with no volume while I’m working. Saturday and Sunday I’m usually doing stuff. If there are guys I like that are in contention I’ll check the app periodically. But in no way is watching golf a priority. I’d rather be at the club playing. 

[bcjim]

48 minutes ago, Opie Taylor said:

The Saudi are winning and folks don't like it, we get it. 
Rory will be on LIV in 2025. 

When the liv bot has a few too many on Saturday night.