Upgrading irons to less forgiving ones?

[payerasjl]

Buy and play what you like. Work on your skill set. Saying you can’t play blades or CB’s because you aren’t good enough is like saying you can’t bang the hot chick because she’s out of your league. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by payerasjl

[Mitchell]

13 hours ago, chipa said:

I'd look at the Titleist DCI 962b's they are a famous iron and can be got in good condition. I have regular 962's and have never hit anything better. They are a soft cast that feels similar to forged.

Look, we already had Wunder write an article a few years ago that made it more difficult to find 962b irons in good condition for reasonable pricing, and now you’re bringing them up? 🤦‍♂️What’s wrong with you buddy? 😂

Full disclosure- I may have a “few” 962b sets myself and have advocated for them to a select few here in the past. 😃 I personally would not recommend these irons for most players that are still developing a consistent, reliable impact pattern- yet the standard 962 fits a much wider demographic of players and abilities, certainly could be played a long time as game progressed.

[NRJyzr]

I was under the impression the 962b were actually 17-4 stainless?  

 

It was a point of contention in the early golf forum days.  Titleist didn't have any forgings in their lineup, contending the designs were "too complex to forge."

 

Turned a lot of folks off at the time.

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by NRJyzr

[Bad9]

32 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

I was under the impression the 962b were actually 17-4 stainless?  

 

It was a point of contention in the early golf forum days.  Titleist didn't have any forgings in their lineup, contending the designs were "too complex to forge."

 

Turned a lot of folks off at the time.

 

 

The hangover from that still has some of us turned off. IIRC there was a component company who forged an iron that was essentially a knockoff of one of the Titleist "too complex to forge" models.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Bad9

[iknowbagu]

I absolutely LOVED that era in Titleist iron history. The 990 and 962 (and by extension, the 962B) are still some of my favorite irons to this day. Would I have preferred they been forged? Yeah, probably. Were they "soft"? No, not by any stretch. But they were some of the most consistent and visually appealing irons I've ever played. I still have a set of 990 that will be with me until I die. 

 

Sorry to derail. Couldn't help myself. 

[NRJyzr]

3 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

 

The hangover from that still has some of us turned off. IIRC there was a component company who forged an iron that was essentially a knockoff of one of the Titleist "too complex to forge" models.

 

You could argue the Tour Edge V-Blade was in that "inspired by" category, as well.

 

[Avidswampthing66]

P770's would be a great start.  Something like ZX7 combo with ZX5 5,6 iron would feel way better than p790 and you won't sacrifice much loss of forgiveness or distance.   IMO it's a good idea to get some clubs you can grow into as you improve your golf game!  

[cgasucks]

1 hour ago, NRJyzr said:

I was under the impression the 962b were actually 17-4 stainless?  

 

From what I understand, they're 431 Stainless, as most of the 90s DCI Irons were made from that material.   Larry Bobka when he worked at Titleist at the time confirmed it and is releasing a set of CAST blades from that material.

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by cgasucks

[jmcm87]

On 12/5/2022 at 10:23 PM, PoeBarrett said:

Ballstriking is one thing, you should only get into a blade if you’re able to really control distance and shot shaping. Once you’re able to hit a 7 iron your stock 9 iron length and control flight windows then you should consider it. Don’t jump the gun and make the game harder for yourself

This guy nailed it. Why anyone still plays blades at a recreational level is beyond me. Leave the irons alone if that's your strong point and get fitted for longer clubs or get some short game lessons. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by jmcm87

[msg]

Maybe try the 770's? 

 

I just want to share my experience. Long time golfer and been using GI irons from Taylormade Burners and Great Big Bertha's in the 90's. I have taken a break from golf and came back in 2012 and since then I have been playing every summer. I have been using 714 AP1's for the longest time and I finally was able to get to single digits and iron play was one of my strengths. I sold my irons because I am "better now" and deserve a reward and bought the Mizuno JPX 900 Forged, Srixon 785's, Cobra Forged Tec's and a lot of irons in between. I even owned some Titleist CB's and MB's and they were a joy to hit. When hit solidly that is. lol I felt my iron play suffered but I do not have stats to back it up but I felt how harder the irons that I have owned to hit. Harder in a sense where my mishits really suffered. PS, I was never fitted for these btw lol 

 

Then I finally settled with Z585 irons. These irons were close to the AP1 714 experience and last season I have hit the best GIR % of my life. I was tempted to upgrade to ZX5's but after thinking about it, the 585's are more than enough and will stick with them for multiple seasons like the AP1's. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by msg

[Feelingofgreatness]

I'm a believer in a split set. Shorter irons more compact, mid to long irons more forgiving. 

[chisag]

3 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

I was under the impression the 962b were actually 17-4 stainless?  

 

... I played and loved the 762B's but I would rather stand on one leg blindfolded and hit any irons before attempting to play 962B's.  🤣  

[mantan]

Good luck with the new set. I'm hoping that wasn't mats I was seeing. IMO, mats have a very limited value in accessing the long term playability of a set.

 

You get away with a lot on a mat. And I'd even say a grass range is different. It's one thing to hit a 6-iron from a flat perfect grass lie, especially when you're hitting balls with the range cadence.  It's totally different to hit that 6-iron out of light rough and a slightly sidehill lie when you need to carry water in front of the green.

 

Most of us have been there.  There is something odd about golf that as we get better, we think our equipment may be holding us back.  And that getting clubs 'harder to hit' will be better for our games.  This is especially true with irons. There is a lot of room on the spectrum from SGI clubs to true musclebacks.  It's all about finding the spot that works best for you. For some people it's lower scores. For others, it's just clubs they enjoy looking at and hitting. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by mantan

[Denny100]

On 12/4/2022 at 3:57 AM, sparky1_2007 said:

Hey,

 

So I've got an itch to get some newer/better irons, currently I have the 2017 P790's, but to be honest, I have an eye for a set of blades, or a combo set of MB/CB's. I'm only handicap 15-20 or so, but I do hit my irons pretty well considering - it's 3-4 putting and tee shots that hurt me the most.

 

Is there a slight step up from my current P790's that has a sleeker/smaller look but with only slightly less forgiveness? Or do I need to just suck it up and go with a set of blades and be done with it? I've hit blades on the range, but just never brought them out to the course due to it throwing my distances off.

 

The takomo 101T's and 301's piqued my interest because I could pretty much upgrade with 0 extra cost after selling my old stuff.

 

Ping i210's look interesting - it has the hollow body with insert, smaller and definitely have a nice sleek look.

 

I'm newer to the game, so i'm not 100% familiar with a lot of the other brand offerings out there that would fit the bill. 

 

Thanks in advance for your insight and advice!

 

Id ask the question, whats the reason for moving away from the P790s onto the blades first of all.

 

The majority of the worlds best golfers DONT play blades.

 

I would say one of the best reasons to move to blades would be spin properties. Blades tend to have a spinnier flight, which could be good OR bad, I dont know your game.

 

I would say theoretically, the blades could make you more accurate..... yes potentially, but you could also really suffer on mis hits.

 

If youre getting fitted for irons, then the fitting is going to be geared around getting a good impact position so if youre missing the sweetspot of the iron by a lot, its a kind of all bets are off situation.

 

But its nice to have a little help down there if you do miss the sweetspot, particularly with the longer irons.

 

If youre intent on getting blades, im a little biased but you just have to consider mizuno, for the feel.

[Mitchell]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... I played and loved the 762B's but I would rather stand on one leg blindfolded and hit any irons before attempting to play 962B's.  🤣  

Still playing 962b to a solid standard 😃and was not a fan of the 762b set at all- although a good friend played them well with Graphite Design GAT 115 shafts for years. Totally different clubs, even if share some similarities- kinda like people and still respect most of your opinions😂 Do still respect all the courteous ways you have provided positive input here over the years👍🏻

[StuFL]

P770s I think? But also, the Titleist T100. Looking on the internet you can’t tell as much. But go put one in hand at your local golf shop and that is a very thin top line imo!

[llewol007]

Hard to pinpoint if you would gain anything. Yes there will be a honeymoon phase of any brand new set you will bring in but as anything else, you start to reveal the bad shots out of the set and you then start to learn your set the more you play. You have established that with your current set and that is why you feel you are hitting them well. When it comes to finding something that will upgrade your game, it sounds like your focus should be more your driver and putter and leave well enough alone as they say. But like every one else including myself, the itch to grab something new is always an awesome endeavor. The new offerings from Taylormade might be a great way to go. I say combo up the 770 and 790’s together to get a great combo. That has always peaked my interest as I say gain as much forgiveness in the long aspect of your irons since the goal is to hit is long and straight. When you get into the shorter irons, focus on feel and control since you need to be able to apply more spin on your ball to make it do what you want it to do. If possible grab a good used set of the TM 770 and 790’s. That would be my suggestion. Good luck 

Edited December 11, 2022 by llewol007

[nsxguy]

On 12/8/2022 at 2:26 PM, iknowbagu said:

 

I didn't say they hit the center every time. I said they don't top balls and I said a little toey is not the same as missing grooves entirely. 

 

If we're going to argue semantics of the word never than I'm happy enough simply agreeing to disagree. 

 

Don't bother arguing. He knows (<-- my best guess, hope he doesn't take me literally ) that you weren't intending for your "never" to be taken literally.

[Decibel]

On 12/4/2022 at 3:44 PM, MrCook said:

This is my personal opinion and it might be an unpopular one, especially on wrx:

 

I wouldn't go the blade or even cb route. If your ballstriking was good enough for a set of blades/cb's, you would be a high or even mid single digit, even with below average driving and putting. I don't mean that in an offensive way at all, I just want you to be honest with yourself: If your iron play was that good, you would be fairly close to the flag fairly often. Even a bad putter would mostly two putt in that case, with some three putts thrown into the mix, but also some one putts. Certainly not three putting regularly with occasional four putts.

 

Blades/cb's are for the best ballstrikers, not for mid-cappers with an above average iron game.

 

I think the compact players distance category is the sweet spot for a mid-capper with decent iron game. You can of course try and see how you fare with a set of p770's or i210's/230's, they're pretty much the next step up. I'd make sure to try them out on the course for several rounds and be honest with your approach stats during those before selling the 790's though.

I'm down with what you are saying to a point. The guy could be a really good striker with irons. But inside of 150 can one control flight and spin. As one progresses they learn one swing is just a lie. 

 

Forgiveness depends on the guy. Myself I hit the t200 like trash. Bounce is just awful for me. The t100/s I hit great. I don't think Srixon I think would be a bad fit for me. Looking at the sole I think I'd leave it off to the right. 

[mantan]

I'd also add that when somebody says they are a good ballstriker, I almost read it with a parenthetical 'for my handicap.'

 

If you're a double digit handicap, a 'good ballstriker' is somebody who hits solid shots most of the time that are fairly close to where they are aiming in direction and distance. That's different than a person who almost always hits the sweet spot and can effectively hit it high/low and work it both ways on demand.  That's the kind of golfer that's going to get the most out of playing blades. They can give up forgiveness for an iron that lets them effectively play more shots.

 

I am firmly in the 'play what you want to play' camp.  But I think most golfers need to be honest about what they want out of new irons and put something in their bag to enhance their game. But I totally get (and have been guilty of) just wanting to scratch an itch.  

Edited December 11, 2022 by mantan

[20footputt]

No reason to make the game harder, I'd stick with the more forgiving irons unless you have a particular problem like hitting them too high or something.

[nsxguy]

On 12/3/2022 at 10:57 PM, sparky1_2007 said:

Hey,

 

So I've got an itch to get some newer/better irons, currently I have the 2017 P790's, but to be honest, I have an eye for a set of blades, or a combo set of MB/CB's. I'm only handicap 15-20 or so, but I do hit my irons pretty well considering - it's 3-4 putting and tee shots that hurt me the most.

 

 

 

Considering what ? That you're a 15 ? OK, I guess I can buy that.

 

So you are that guy who can't hit driver and can't putt but strikes his irons right on the button pretty well considering ?

 

Heard a lot about ya. Glad to finally meet ya !!! 👍

 

On 12/8/2022 at 9:44 AM, sparky1_2007 said:

I think I forgot some context to this post - I used to own a set of Titleist 718 MB's that I bought and pieced together myself from members here (718mb heads 2* up, PX LZ 6.0's). I have hit it at the range and had no issues getting it out of the middle, and a few here and there that were toey or topped. Pic for reference before I sold them. The original plan was to bring the PW-8 or maybe 7 in the bag and then leave 6-4 P790. Overall though, I loved that set, but couldn't bring myself to mix it in with my P790's due to the gap between wherever I decided to go from MB to P790's would be ~20 yards or so. In hindsight, I probably could've just bent the P790's a few degree's weak to line up with the MB set, but hindsight is 20/20.

 

So, I ended up getting myself the Callaway apex players mix set -

 

 

 

 

On 12/10/2022 at 4:11 PM, sparky1_2007 said:

Got the new irons in today - took them to the range for a few quick swings. Overall - I definitely love them - they feel great on center strikes as expected and they look fantastic! I’m only showing the 9 iron face as anything 6i and above was a bit rough trying to get it on center. Anything off center would be a ~10-20 or so yard penalty distance wise. I found swinging slower tempo wise with the longer irons helped as well. 
 

Yardages are 10-20 shorter than my p790’s but I believe that is to be expected considering lofts and mb compared to hollow body. I can hit my p790 5-6 iron ~200 carry and that’d be about the 5-4 iron here
 

 

 

C'mon now. You're just having some fun with us, right ? 🙃

 

For "proof" of you having "no issues" hitting it out of the middle with your OLD MBs, you offer that top pic ?

 

You show us 1 club with a single(?) ball mark to the heel, another with about 3-5 center strikes (good job btw), the next with what appears to be almost a dozen strikes all over the face and the last with a dozen or more strikes, a few near the center and the rest out to the toe.

 

This is proof of hitting it out of the middle ? Frankly, these strikes look like about a 15 handicapper; scattered.

 

And now that you've got your new clubs you show us a single strike, centered but (as @ak90 mentioned earlier) too high on the face as proof,,,,,, of what exactly ? 

 

As for distance, you can assume all you like that the hollow body irons are somehow longer but there's ~2* difference loft for loft in the 2 sets. That's roughly 5 yards. So if you're "off" 10-20 it's likely you're not hitting the sweet spot,,,,,,,, again,,,,,,,,

 

FWIW, I think everybody should play whatever clubs they want for whatever reason(s) they want,,,,,,,,,,,, but don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.

 

So tell me, what is your immediate goal ? Making the best score possible each and every hole ? Or playing with nice new shiny things ? If the latter, you're doing just fine.

[Bad9]

@nsxguy I was going to post something in the same vein, not as detailed though. The OP claims to be a good ball striker but provides no data to justify the claim. Even if true (which I doubt) I don't see the benefit of changing the one thing you do well vs working on the things you don't, especially putting. I go back to just another one of those mythical Wrx mid teen plus handicap, great ball striking, poor putters.

[FifeRiviera]

My input is if you are like me and love pulling a blade out the bag then you'll probably play more and get better with blades also have more confidence. 

 

Blades are unforgiving, you'll lose 10 yards out the toe all day but they're not as bad as they used to be. Try them you will probably love them. 

[ak90]

@sparky1_2007

 

dont take these comments as critical, it’s good you’re looking to improve and equipment can certainly help… what I think most people miss in this convo is that good golf will come much quicker from managing your bad shots than from improving your good ones.

 

return those callaways if you can and invest that money in a good coach and start practicing and developing face and impact control. 
 

im trying to be blunt without sounding critical but you’re years away from being at a point blades can help your game. Don’t let that slow down your grind king

[ak90]

1 hour ago, FifeRiviera said:

My input is if you are like me and love pulling a blade out the bag then you'll probably play more and get better with blades also have more confidence. 

 

Blades are unforgiving, you'll lose 10 yards out the toe all day but they're not as bad as they used to be. Try them you will probably love them. 

Or we can be objective and honest about our game and play more with appropriate clubs and get even better even faster and develop even more confidence.

 

OP would lose 10-15 yards with GI irons, his impact location has him missing greens by 30 yards with short irons

[ak90]

Just now, ak90 said:

Or we can be objective and honest about our game and play more with appropriate clubs and get even better even faster and develop even more confidence.

 

OP would lose 10-15 yards with GI irons, his impact location has him missing greens by 30 yards with blade short irons

 

[Boricua Golf]

As most here have said, play whatever you want, I have an entire set of the Apex Pro 21, I "upgraded?" from Razr X Musclebacks, definitely much more forgiving, didn't lose any distance or accuracy, simply easier to hit, again, nice set combo set, enjoy them and keep getting better...

[PDXGolfr]

Bottom line, if you are trying to get the best score possible each and every time out, then going less forgiving will not give you the best chance of doing that consistently. That being said, I think there is a tradeoff with anything. For example, I went from blades to more forgiving irons the last few years. There were huge benefits from bad strikes/swings but some downsides as well - mostly distance control and 'hot' spots.

[Brausch24]

This post was both informing and enjoying to read, but I agree with the majority of the postings. I would classify myself as a decent ball striker; usually shoot low to mid 80s and I have plenty of 3 putts, it’s the short game and ego shots that get me.
 

I bought a driver/3w combo several years back because it “looked cool and thought it wound impress”. Worst thing I have done Club wise..

 

8 years ago I bought a set of 710 AP2 with X100s preowned and have gamed them since. They really helped me become a better iron player. However, I just got a set of P7MC irons as an “upgrade” and that’s because I did something right this year and my wife bought me a new set??? Haven’t played them yet but feel these will be a tad less forgiving. 
 

I’m excited to see how my game improves and evolves with the new irons.