Rogue ST Max (Non D version) - Still draw biased?

[mantan]

I got a Rogue ST Max (non-D version) from CPO this week. It has the stock Tensei Blue AV shaft.  I love the sound and feel....but it feels like it loves to go left. My natural ball flight is a draw. When I hit well, it's hits a 10-yard draw. But it feels like anything slightly off and it's ready to go harder left.  I'm playing a 10.5* set to -1/N.   Is this head just a little draw biased?  I was on the fence between this and the Rogue Max LS.  My ball flight with other drivers is a softer draw and misses are usually pushes.  

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[iNeedMoreGolf]

I had the triple diamond version and it sat very left pointed to me. Even a friend said the same without me mentioning it but it faded usually. Sometimes a pull left but with a fade. Not sure on the regular. Sound and feel is fantastic though.

[GolfTurkey]

I know Callaway’s marketing says the ST Max is draw biased but I’m sure I have seen Johnny Wunder say that it’s actually pretty neutral.

 

I hate the left miss and my experience is that the ST Max is very neutral and helps protect against the low left dive bomber because it retains decent spin on toe hits. Not sure how much manufacturing variance there is, maybe I was lucky to get one that sits square to slightly open. 

[Jeff58]

I owned one for about a week. Traded it back because it was draw biased. Unlike some/many it doesn’t appear significantly biased or shut at address in the standard hosel configuration.

[fred faldo]

The non D version sits upright compared to the LS by three degrees I believe and I found it to be a left machine as well. 

[Ripken08]

I found it to go left as well.  Long shaft and upright lie angle doesn't help.

[bvanlieu]

FF nailed it. The lie angle is more upright by a degree from previous standard cally heads. This led me to the LS from CPO for myself with my older driver being a standard mavrik with a flat red adapter. 

[ALIF]

1 hour ago, GolfTurkey said:

I know Callaway’s marketing says the ST Max is draw biased but I’m sure I have seen Johnny Wunder say that it’s actually pretty neutral.

 

I hate the left miss and my experience is that the ST Max is very neutral and helps protect against the low left dive bomber because it retains decent spin on toe hits. Not sure how much manufacturing variance there is, maybe I was lucky to get one that sits square to slightly open. 

Totally agree. This has been my experience as well.

[mantan]

53 minutes ago, bvanlieu said:

FF nailed it. The lie angle is more upright by a degree from previous standard cally heads. This led me to the LS from CPO for myself with my older driver being a standard mavrik with a flat red adapter. 

 

How does the LS compare from a forgiveness perspective?  I really love the feel/sound of the rogue Max.  If the LS is comparable from a forgiveness perspective, I'll just trade it in through the CPO program....

[third-times-a-charm]

It’s pretty neutral.

 

CPO has your issue models for sale which are flatter. Fantastic drivers and I’m using one.

 

You have to call a rep to order them.

 

here’s one in clearance but you’ll notice they’re not listed on the website: https://www.callawaygolfpreowned.com/drivers/8321980.html

Edited January 22, 2023 by third-times-a-charm

[fred faldo]

23 minutes ago, mantan said:

 

How does the LS compare from a forgiveness perspective?  I really love the feel/sound of the rogue Max.  If the LS is comparable from a forgiveness perspective, I'll just trade it in through the CPO program....

at the risk of repeating myself on this subject in other threads the LS driver was at the very bottom of drivers I felt I would be fit to. I find it incredibly forgiving it was almost shocking to me how good it was on mis hits. I think it can easily be played by 15s on down, not a scary low spin head at all

[pak]

At the beginning of last season I spent a lot of time testing out the Rogue ST Max with the intent of buying one. With different shafts it always went left. 
 

I ended up buying the Epic Speed which was definitely more neutral than the Rogue ST.

[iNeedMoreGolf]

So two things i forgot.. i have an origional rogue and a mavrik that are both very neutral. I know this because i can miss left and right with them lol also i have a draw sim2... its too... drawry... but i love the way it feels overall. Swingweight ect... so im putting lead tape on the toe end to stop this over hook... if you want you can throw some lead tape on the toe of your rogue max and it can slow down the toe from overturn causing hooks or pushes or push hooks. Baby draws i dont think anybody has a problem with.

[lefty1978]

I've played the st max since last May and find it to be neutral and not draw bias at all. I play a fade and still play a fade with the st max.

Edited January 22, 2023 by lefty1978

[mantan]

3 hours ago, fred faldo said:

The non D version sits upright compared to the LS by three degrees I believe and I found it to be a left machine as well. 

 

When I was fit for my PXG driver, the fitter landed on the 3* flat setting.  I had a minor swing change with my coach afterward and was leaving it a bit right more than I wanted. It may be something where I need to goldilocks the PXG settings and try it at 2.5* and 1.5* flat...

 

 

[dmeeksDC]

2 hours ago, fred faldo said:

at the risk of repeating myself on this subject in other threads the LS driver was at the very bottom of drivers I felt I would be fit to. I find it incredibly forgiving it was almost shocking to me how good it was on mis hits. I think it can easily be played by 15s on down, not a scary low spin head at all

Agree. Sounds like the LS is the best move for the OP. The LS is the most forgiving “low spin” driver I have played, and really it is just lower spin than the MAX, but not by a huge margin. I’d call it reduced spin more than low spin. I love mine. I hit a draw or a fade with it. Sounds great, feels great. It looks better than Paradym to me, but I have only seen photos of the new one. 

[bvanlieu]

OP I never tested the Max due to the lie angle, and found the LS to be peachy for me and I am not a middle finding machine at all. Some of the misses on the Mavrik head for me would turn over too much where as the LS seems to help with that for me.

 

I also demo'd the Rogue TD and didn't find that as hard to hit as the older Sub Zero models (with weight forward: weight back some of them were just fine) but recognizing my limits I went with the LS instead.

 

Finding the tour issue (flatter) Max for the same cost would be ridiculously tempting to try. And here I thought I was done for 2023 🙂

 

 

[mantan]

On 1/22/2023 at 5:23 AM, bvanlieu said:

OP I never tested the Max due to the lie angle, and found the LS to be peachy for me and I am not a middle finding machine at all. Some of the misses on the Mavrik head for me would turn over too much where as the LS seems to help with that for me.

 

I also demo'd the Rogue TD and didn't find that as hard to hit as the older Sub Zero models (with weight forward: weight back some of them were just fine) but recognizing my limits I went with the LS instead.

 

Finding the tour issue (flatter) Max for the same cost would be ridiculously tempting to try. And here I thought I was done for 2023 🙂

 

 

 

I ended up returning the Max ST to CPO and the replacement Max LS arrived today. I look forward to getting it out to the range on Thursday!

 

 

[GroverC]

I'm coming from a Titleist TSi2 and my standard shot shape with that was a slight fade.  Due to a good deal from CPO on a 9* Rogue ST Max last summer I bought it and it now I am hitting small draws.  I am using the stock Tensei AV Blue shaft set at +1 N.  

[me05501]

I also use the Max LS and find it to be plenty forgiving. I recently flirted with the Max D head but my results were inconclusive. Sold the Max D to a buddy and he's thrilled with it. 

 

I haven't tried the Rogue Max but I did try the Max version in the Epic line. It seemed to be neutral from a draw/fade standpoint but wanted to launch the ball very high. The Epic Max LS worked much better for me before I got the Rogue Max LS. 

[mantan]

I got a chance to hit it at the range today.  It was less draw biased than the D for me. My primary shot shape was still right to left, but it never felt too hooky.  It's not as grandma forgiving as the D on mishit, but not mother-in-law unforgiving by any stretch. The sound on mishits is different...which felt different than the D which had the same sound no matter what.

 

I have a round scheduled tomorrow afternoon, so we'll see how it is in live action. 

[mantan]

It was pretty good today. The only hook was one where I absolutely just got quick, but it 'in the rough but playable' hook, not an 'off the planet' hook.

 

Officially changing the signature and boxing up the PXG to drop off at the UPS store. I still don't know what happened there.  I got fit for it in October and absolutely loved it for a 2 months.  But it's been a wild two way miss with it the last month. I'm hitting my other clubs well. Even after seeing my instructor, I couldn't groove it anymore.  Now I just don't trust it.

 

As soon as I hit another driver, things were fine. The PXG was a great head.  I hit some bombs with it and it seemed a perfect fit for my swing...then it didn't.  I have the same shaft in in my Hy-wood and 4H. My 4H is my absolute security blanket club.  (We tried a lot of shafts in my fitting and landed on that one late and the numbers were good.). Now I just don't trust it.

 

 

 

[ChipNRun]

On 1/21/2023 at 7:33 PM, Ripken08 said:

I found it to go left as well.  Long shaft and upright lie angle doesn't help.

 

If you keep it, a couple of things to consider:

• Too long a shaft and the upright both aggravate the leftward error. Stock shaft is 45.75" ... considering a lot of 6-foot tall tour pros play a 44.5" driver shaft, maybe a trim is in order. (would need to recapture SwWt due to shorter shaft)
• Get help next regrip. Have clubsmith install the grip so the guidelines set you up 2* open... this might help avoid left drift.)

Years ago, I played the Callaway HyperX Tour driver. Back then, many of the bonded (non-adjustable) pro and tour drivers came with a face angle 1* open. I played a draw at time, and the slight openness ensured I didn't slip from slight draw to hook.

[wam78]

This rogue st line is pretty awesome!  Currently playing the ls td and love it.  Way more forgiving than it should be and it still spins.  Have the 9* lofted up and it’s so easy to fade and control.  Still sits nice and square as well.