Half Swings?

[Ryan Moser]

My irons feel trash lately. Not getting any real pop that I crave - use to hit the ball a lot farther. Feel I am kinda hanging back and the ball is kinda ballooning on me. 

 

Working with Brian Mogg and Kyle Mcclone down here in Orlando. Brian wants to have the club more in front of me (says I have slightly shorter arms for my body and club was getting way behind me). Has anybody had any success with half shots to get the release better and get a better finish (not hanging back)? 

 

When I slow down the vid even on the half shots tho - Seems like my club face is kinda ascending upwards tho. 

 

Love to hear any feedback on this - try to be positive if you will - the grind lately has me in a funk. 

 

 

 

[ReefDonkey]

4 minutes ago, Ryan Moser said:

My irons feel trash lately. Not getting any real pop that I crave - use to hit the ball a lot farther. Feel I am kinda hanging back and the ball is kinda ballooning on me. 

 

Working with Brian Mogg and Kyle Mcclone down here in Orlando. Brian wants to have the club more in front of me (says I have slightly shorter arms for my body and club was getting way behind me). Has anybody had any success with half shots to get the release better and get a better finish (not hanging back)? 

 

When I slow down the vid even on the half shots tho - Seems like my club face is kinda ascending upwards tho. 

 

Love to hear any feedback on this - try to be positive if you will - the grind lately has me in a funk. 

 

 

 

IMG_0509 2.MOV

 

I also have short arms relative to my torso length and total height.  What helped me really get the best dynamic loft at impact was taking half swing punch shots with my long irons, but I started them with a pretty decent forward press prior to swinging.  Think 100 yard chip shots.  It's just what worked for me.  

 

 

[vandyfan]

No real help but I have been spending a lot of time with 1/2 swings as well and I have the opposite problem where I am getting really flat and inside with my takeaway. I am operating under the premise that many teachers seem to suggest 1/2 swings and slower swings to help with sequencing and overall impact position and kind of this idea that if you can't hit a great, flushed 1/2 swing or hit the ball well at a slow speed...how are you going to consistently do it at top speed? 

 

All that said, I think I have overdone it a little bit and that is how I got to my super inside takeaway. I will say I played some VERY good golf this past weekend but I think I am slowly moving into a bad habit so I am trying to get my takeaway more neutral. All that said, I think 1/2 swings are helpful and I will continue to use them to work on motor patterns but they have to be monitored closely (at least in my case). 

[Ryan Moser]

2 minutes ago, vandyfan said:

No real help but I have been spending a lot of time with 1/2 swings as well and I have the opposite problem where I am getting really flat and inside with my takeaway. I am operating under the premise that many teachers seem to suggest 1/2 swings and slower swings to help with sequencing and overall impact position and kind of this idea that if you can't hit a great, flushed 1/2 swing or hit the ball well at a slow speed...how are you going to consistently do it at top speed? 

 

All that said, I think I have overdone it a little bit and that is how I got to my super inside takeaway. I will say I played some VERY good golf this past weekend but I think I am slowly moving into a bad habit so I am trying to get my takeaway more neutral. All that said, I think 1/2 swings are helpful and I will continue to use them to work on motor patterns but they have to be monitored closely (at least in my case). 

Appreciate the feedback. I hear ya on that - gonna try to hit batches of 3 and then a full swing in between. Don't want to get too engrained into half swing like you mentioned. 

[Nels55]

3 minutes ago, vandyfan said:

No real help but I have been spending a lot of time with 1/2 swings as well and I have the opposite problem where I am getting really flat and inside with my takeaway. I am operating under the premise that many teachers seem to suggest 1/2 swings and slower swings to help with sequencing and overall impact position and kind of this idea that if you can't hit a great, flushed 1/2 swing or hit the ball well at a slow speed...how are you going to consistently do it at top speed? 

 

All that said, I think I have overdone it a little bit and that is how I got to my super inside takeaway. I will say I played some VERY good golf this past weekend but I think I am slowly moving into a bad habit so I am trying to get my takeaway more neutral. All that said, I think 1/2 swings are helpful and I will continue to use them to work on motor patterns but they have to be monitored closely (at least in my case). 

Your takeaway being more inside could be correct.  If you have a side on trail hand grip the club shaft should be parallel to your shoulders and if your shoulders turn the club will seem to be inside but it is not.  This is per a Mike Adams video that I saw, LOL it is not something that I thought of on my own but it works for me.  In the video it is mentioned that trying to take the club straight back has ruined many good players.

[GoGoErky]

deleted. Wrong thread.

Edited June 22, 2023 by GoGoErky

[Ryan Moser]

@GoGoErky Def going to try that because sometimes I struggle with the half swings feeling super arm dominant and then I get in a massive mental pretzel about how that will transfer over to my full swing that should be more full body movement. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Ryan Moser

[SNIPERBBB]

Welcome to the 9-3 drill. 

[Louis_Posture]

1 hour ago, Ryan Moser said:

Has anybody had any success with half shots to get the release better and get a better finish (not hanging back)? 

 

 

That exercise has been around for 100 years; so yes it is time tested proven.

[Ryan Moser]

I just feel like such a hacker pulling up to the range and practicing these. Probably for my own good though. Just wanted confirmation it is not a stupid idea to practice these. 

[ShortGolfer]

If you are prone to overthinking things the repetition you get by doing something correctly can help override that.

 

I've been doing slow half shots to ingrain the habit of ball first contact.

[Zitlow]

You're talented, the hanging back is because your right side is locked to the ground.

 

Try unweighing your right heel as you start down to free up your right side so it can freely swing around the posted left. 

 

 

Even this far past impact your right foot is stuck to the ground.

 

 

As far as the clubhead ascending up, let it. The clubhead makes a circle so don't artificially try to hold it down past impact. 

 

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, Ryan Moser said:

@GoGoErky Def going to try that because sometimes I struggle with the half swings feeling super arm dominant and then I get in a massive mental pretzel about how that will transfer over to my full swing that should be more full body movement. 

The reason you feel arm dominant is because your body dominates too much on the full swing.  The body doesn’t produce most of the speed.  Proper sequencing does and when your body dominates too much you lose speed. 
 

You also said you’d feel like a hacker doing these.  That’s the second poor perception.  This is what actual elite players do when working on a new move.  Hackers go to the range and mindlessly smash drivers.  Elite golfers make half swings to get sequencing down and slowly add speed.

 

If a track sprinter was trying to change the length of his stride, would he do it at full speed, or jogging around the track for hours?  If a weight lifter was learning a new wrist position, would he practice it with his max lift, or at a very low weight that he could move easily?

 

This thread is a microcosm of what I discuss all day every day.  Golfer’s inability to improve is not about lack of flexibility, lack of skill, lack of core strength or even lack of available practice time.  It’s about poor perceptions.  “This feels weird and I’ll feel stupid if I do that.”  Of course it feels weird, it’s different than what you do.  If it didn’t feel different, you’d be doing the same thing.  What makes more sense of what will make you better?  Doing something that none of the other hacks are doing, or doing the same thing the rest of them are doing.  
 

Brian is great.  Do what he’s telling you  and you’ll get better.

Edited June 22, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[getitdaily]

You're spending a bunch of money to see mogg only to come to this group to validate what he's said to do. 

 

No offense to anyone on this board, but outside of monte and Jim Waldron, I doubt anyone who's going to reply is going to come close to touching mogg's credentials. 

 

I've been in Orlando since 2001 and have known about mogg for most of that time. Follow his guidance and don't muddy your mind with the well intending yet free advice you get here.

Edited June 22, 2023 by getitdaily

[golfarb1]

The longer and faster the swing , the higher the probability for error .

[Soloman1]

Brian Mogg knows what he's doing.

 

3 hours ago, Ryan Moser said:

Seems like my club face is kinda ascending upwards tho. 

 

No it isn't. Bottom of arc and divot is in front of the ball.

[jomatty]

2 hours ago, Ryan Moser said:

I just feel like such a hacker pulling up to the range and practicing these. Probably for my own good though. Just wanted confirmation it is not a stupid idea to practice these. 

Seems like I see a lot of tour guys doing this on the range so I wouldn’t worry about that.

[iacas]

I agree with others about listening to Brian.

 

But I also suspect you're going to talk about this eventually. If you're bending the arm this quickly in a < 1/2 swing… it's likely bending a LOT more in the full swing.

[Valtiel]

6 hours ago, Ryan Moser said:

I just feel like such a hacker pulling up to the range and practicing these. Probably for my own good though. Just wanted confirmation it is not a stupid idea to practice these. 

 

5 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

It’s about poor perceptions.  “This feels weird and I’ll feel stupid if I do that.”  Of course it feels weird, it’s different than what you do.  If it didn’t feel different, you’d be doing the same thing.  

To add to this point Monte made, I made/am working on a change that superficially barely looks like anything but is such a noticeable difference in feel that I needed video to know *anything* about what was really happening. You can not underestimate both how deeply ingrained movement patterns can be and how even the slightest deviation from them, good/bad/indifferent, can feel like your whole world has changed. All of that is scary, and as Monte said is absolutely a big reason why people don't improve. 

Don't trust feel until video can corroborate it, and it sounds like via several people in this thread that you should be trusting your instructor here. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Valtiel

[596]

1/2 swings 4 days a week for months and months. 90% of my range time is short irons to the 80 to 100 yard flags. 

 

Scores have dropped a bunch.  IE today - 8 of 9 greens in regulation. Hit 1 flag stick from 30 yards out on a par 5. Shot 37 on aerated greens. I've had many 36 and 37s since using thousands of 1/2 swings on the range.  

[Elkhair]

On 6/22/2023 at 3:57 PM, iacas said:

I agree with others about listening to Brian.

 

But I also suspect you're going to talk about this eventually. If you're bending the arm this quickly in a < 1/2 swing… it's likely bending a LOT more in the full swing.

One swing is a short iron, the other is a driver. You cant compare these swings.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Elkhair said:

One swing is a short iron, the other is a driver. You cant compare these swings.

 

Yes, you can. The swings aren't that different.

 

He doesn't turn much for how much he bends his elbow. I could have used a bunch of other videos, but Justin Thomas bends his right elbow on the "faster" side of the spectrum for Tour players (and then stops bending it pretty early), so i went with that image.

[Ajgaguy83]

On 6/22/2023 at 11:54 AM, SNIPERBBB said:

Welcome to the 9-3 drill. 

Was going to state/suggest the same. If you haven’t already, I’d highly recommend spending some time watching, learning and doing Slicefixer’s 9/3 drill.

 

It will do what you’re seeking and is the foundation of great ball striking. 

[Kuuuch]

First thing I noticed was the right arm bend too and how quick right elbow sticks to right side. One of the many reasons I always hated the 9-3 drill or left arm parallel swings. Exponentially easier/better imo to do stuff like this 

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CpTWTpBDg7P/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[iacas]

22 minutes ago, Kuuuch said:

First thing I noticed was the right arm bend too and how quick right elbow sticks to right side. One of the many reasons I always hated the 9-3 drill or left arm parallel swings. Exponentially easier/better imo to do stuff like this 

 

I'm not a huge fan of the ball between the arms, but I'm with you on the first part… I help a LOT of golfers who use the arms for too much "around" when the arms are almost primarily "up/down."

[PracticeSwinger]

1 hour ago, Kuuuch said:

First thing I noticed was the right arm bend too and how quick right elbow sticks to right side. One of the many reasons I always hated the 9-3 drill or left arm parallel swings.

Not to hijack this thread, on the subject of 9-3 swings, half swings, I get how we have to work this way to ingrain motion patterns - especially the body driven pivot that needs to happen. But I've always found it hard to connect these with full swings, since to say it bluntly I'm not looking for my P5 to be my P3 position. Don't know if I'm in the minority here or just don't grasp the intentions of the 9-3, since with full swings we're not coming into the impact zone the way we're practicing.

[Long_Left]

On 6/22/2023 at 9:51 AM, Ryan Moser said:

@GoGoErky Def going to try that because sometimes I struggle with the half swings feeling super arm dominant and then I get in a massive mental pretzel about how that will transfer over to my full swing that should be more full body movement. 

Half or 3/4 swings with my feet together changed my iron game for the better over a very short period of time. I'm no instructor, so this is only what works for me... But I start nearly every full swing practice session with 8i, feet together until I'm loose and making consistent contact. Then move the feet about a clubhead apart, rinse and repeat until I'm at a full swing. Some days it's 20 balls to get there, some days it's a full bucket, but it's gone a long way in eliminating the feeling of hitting off my trail leg.

[MPStrat]

Ya I’m with everyone on the general thumbs down for the 9-3 swing concept as a drill to improve the full swing. I get there might be a time and place for it as a feel. 
 

The reason why you feel so overly arm dominant is because as iacas said, you are. 
 

Would be much more helpful to see your full swing to give advice. 

From the little information we have, it looks like yet another example of the arms getting too far behind the shoulders and across the body in the backswing. It’s tough to fix this by simply swinging to 9:00, bc as seen in your attempts at the drill swing, you are used to narrowing the arms and pulling them across your body in the backswing. In this case you will just do a shorter version of the same issue.

 

This is also why you can’t just tell ams to “shorten their swing”. The answer is learning to move correctly. 

 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Halo25 said:

Thanks for that it makes sense what the OP coach is telling him about keeping the arms away from his body. 

 

Yeah. Not entirely on topic (half swings, 9-to-3) so I'll tuck it in a spoiler and move on.

Spoiler

I've done a lot with a training aid that we call "The Tube®" (it's not actually ®, inside joke) which basically keeps your trail elbow nearly straight. It's great for people who bend their elbow quickly and don't use or under-utilize their bodies (rotation). You get some impressive results in three swings with that on there.

 

 

I only ever use it in lessons for three swings because as I say to the students: "I like The Tube® because it makes you turn and bend your elbow less. I dislike The Tube® because it makes you turn and bend your elbow less." In other words, I use it to show them the geometry and how much shaft lean they can get and so on by changing the way and rate at which their elbow bends, and using their bodies more… and then we work on doing that without the training aid.

 

For example:

 

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by iacas
Added image, spoiler

[woodriff]

On 6/22/2023 at 9:54 AM, SNIPERBBB said:

Welcome to the 9-3 drill. 

Whenever I want to sharpen up iron play I always use this drill. You’d be amazes how far you can actually hit the ball with this drill.