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brucedeuce

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I’ve never hit a ball so far as I did with the OG Sim Max. That thing was an absolute piss missile, just could not control it or flight it whatsoever. Would love TM to go back to Titanium faces but I think they’ve “put their eggs in their basket” with the carbon thing so not sure they’d go back. Currently gaming a G425 LST which looks and sounds like a frying pan (not to mention is 10mph down on ball speed to some of the current big sticks, albeit way more forgiving) so am definitely eyeing the next cycle of drivers! 

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5 hours ago, JDSPGA said:

 

Yes. It's simply not forgiving. It's great out of the middle but compared to a TSR2 or a G430, Paradym X, it is awful on mishits. 

 

Sure, they have a lot of tour players playing them, but they hit the middle of the face a lot. 

 

Oh, that and Twist Face isn't real. It's just bulge and roll and every company has that....

Do you think the Sim2 Max was more forgiving? I’m playing the Stealth 2 now. In comparison to the Sim 2 Max, I feel they are similar forgiveness. I do think I liked the feel of the Sim 2 Max better though. Distance seems to be a wash.

Callaway AI Smoke Max 10.5* Diamana GT 60 S
Callaway AI Smoke Max 5W Tensei Blue 65 S

Ping G430 4H RDX Red 6.0

Mizuno JPX 923 HMP 5-GW Modus 105S (bent 2* weak)
Cleveland RTX6 54 & 58*
TM Spider X DB 34”

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1 hour ago, JDSPGA said:

I know you are using a bit of hyperbole but it’s not 10 mph slower…..

 

maybe 1-2. No head in the last 6 years is 10 mph faster or slower than another one(when hit relatively close to middle of the face). I assure you NONE of the PING guys on tour would play a head that is way slower than other options. 

It was 10mph in ball speed slower on average than the Aerojet, TSR3 and the Paradym TD, for me. Dry ball using GCQuad. However Ping stock demo shafts 1/2” shorter than the others which will account for a drop off in CHS causing a bit of ball speed loss. You’re forgetting tour players don’t play retail heads so that’s a bit null and void. I’ve seen a member getting 5mph more out of the Wilson driver than the G430 just this week. As always though, the Ping drivers win on dispersion left to right! 

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I've been playing the original Stealth + for about a year and a half now and I love it.  Certainly TM has had issues with longevity for the face insert and that could be a reason to go back to Titanium, if they do.  I've never gotten along with TM drivers in the past and had a Titleist driver for around 7 years before making the switch, the carbon face made it feel like an "old school" driver and felt better than anything else I've tested recently.  I will agree that forgiveness isn't great at times, but it's very consistent when your hitting it off the middle.  

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Taylormade Stealth + 10.5 (Mitsubishi Kai'li White 60S)

Titleist 913F 15 (Mitsubishi Diamana S+ 70)

Titleist 712U 2I (True Temper Dynamic Gold S300)

Titleist 680 MB 4-W (True Temper Dynamic Gold S300)

Titleist Vokey SM5 50,54,58 (True Temper Dynamic Gold S200)

Scotty Cameron Newport 2.5 SS

ProV1

 

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9 hours ago, JDSPGA said:

I know you are using a bit of hyperbole but it’s not 10 mph slower…..

 

maybe 1-2. No head in the last 6 years is 10 mph faster or slower than another one(when hit relatively close to middle of the face). I assure you NONE of the PING guys on tour would play a head that is way slower than other options. 

I’ve got a 425 lst I put into play when my swing is off as it finds the fairway a bit more.  It’s consistently 172-175 in ball speed.  The rogue st triple diamond  cobra x ls  I’ve played in same time period we’re reach 180+ ball speed.  Same swing speed and same shafts (smoke green 6tx and kai’li white tx rotate in and out).

 

that being said the og sim with Ventus black hit some absolute nukes.  Nothing I’ve ever hit is longer, but it was the least stable head I’ve played in the last 20 years. 

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20 hours ago, JDSPGA said:

I know you are using a bit of hyperbole but it’s not 10 mph slower…..

 

maybe 1-2. No head in the last 6 years is 10 mph faster or slower than another one(when hit relatively close to middle of the face). I assure you NONE of the PING guys on tour would play a head that is way slower than other options. 

 

54 minutes ago, JDSPGA said:

 

I know for a fact this is true but people on this forum will never believe it. The tour guys aren't playing way hotter heads.....In fact some of them play with thicker faces.

 

They are just really really good at golf. 

I wish people accepted these points more often - all of them. 

 

With regard to ‘slow’ heads, yes, it can be the case, but if you are losing 10mph ball speed to another driver of remotely similar age, there’s something off with one of them.

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5 hours ago, JDSPGA said:

 

I know for a fact this is true but people on this forum will never believe it. The tour guys aren't playing way hotter heads.....In fact some of them play with thicker faces.

 

They are just really really good at golf. 

So if tour players play with thicker faces, they aren’t playing retail heads are they 😂 I know a Ping staffer who plays a driver you can’t buy, no face roll and constructed loft at 8.25 degrees. 
 

I’ve never understood why Ping fans get so defensive over their product. I just find other drivers way hotter for my delivery tendencies, but find Ping drivers way straighter- it’s that simple. Others may find it the other way round, it’s normal. 

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Interesting to see all of these comments. I have just recently done some comparisons among the TM clubs I have used going back to the original SLDR 430 (Tour head). The SLDR was looking back the longest driver I have ever hit. But that was many years ago and one's age does tend to take away yards. Also I was extremely accurate with that club that many felt was unforgiving. Others were M1s (two versions) M2 (1st version), M3, M5, SIM and Sim 2 (all tour heads and where applicable were the smaller 430 and 440 cc heads) then the Stealth + and now the Stealth 2+. All with top level Fukjikura from Speeder Evolutions up to the initial debut of the Ventus line. For the SLDR in my comparisons i upgraded to the Ventus as this head predated these other shafts. Anyway for today The Stealth 2+ is the best for distance, control, forgiveness and Feel.  I didn't remember the clanky feel of the SLDR, I did correctly recall the extremely clanky feel of the first M1.  The M2 was a great driver but I could have used more adjustments as I couldn't hit all of the shots with it. The second version of M1 was a favorite and the M5 & original SIM were also. The original Stealth + could have used more adjustability thus the Stealth 2+ was what I needed. The results prove it to be a great club for me. I have two a 9* with the Ventus Blue TR 6S and I went to an 8* with the original Blue 6S in the bag.  By the way I hit the SLDR (Ventus Blue TR 6S) pretty good but it was about 8 to 10 yds shorter that the Stealth 2+. The least favorites were the first M1, M3, and SIM 2.  For perspective over the years I have tried Callaway Epic, Paradymes, Titleist TRs with the 2 probably the best for me but it wasn't surpassing the Stealth 2+

That's my 2 cents. 

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In the bag: Playing --- TaylorMade  Qi 10 (core) driver w/Fujikura Ventus Blue 6S. 3wd TM (OG) SIM (special smaller tour only head, same that TW was playing prior to the '24 Genesis approx 160cc) @ 15.*) with Fujikura Ventus 7-S.  5 wd TM SIM w/Fujikura Speeder 857TR-S (Japan made)

HyBrids-Cleveland Hi-Bore #1 (16* plays like 2-Iron) W/Fuji-S Tipped 1/2".  SIM Max #4 (set @ 21.5* w/ Fuji Atmos HB8 9S.  IRONS:  TM M3 4i (2*weak)w SteelFiber i95-S,  P790 3, 5-PW,  w/Fuji Pro 95i-S. SW TM MG4  54*/11 bent to 53*/10 w/ Precision Rifle 6.0-S. LW TaylorMade Hi Toe 3, 58/10 w/Modus Tour 105 Stiff. Putter-- BOBBY GRACE Night&Day-Custom, "M.Coz-Bandsaw Prototype". Ball 2022 TaylorMade Tour Response
 Alternating clubs: the 5wd, TM Hybrid Stealth 2+ #2, 3Iron, depending on what part of the country, course, climate, and conditions.

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1 hour ago, GoGatorsChomp said:

So if tour players play with thicker faces, they aren’t playing retail heads are they 😂 I know a Ping staffer who plays a driver you can’t buy, no face roll and constructed loft at 8.25 degrees. 
 

I’ve never understood why Ping fans get so defensive over their product. I just find other drivers way hotter for my delivery tendencies, but find Ping drivers way straighter- it’s that simple. Others may find it the other way round, it’s normal. 

 

I never said they play all retail heads. That certainly isn't true. But they aren't magically way hotter. Like I said many are actually thicker faces so they hold up longer. No one is saying they all play retail heads like you get at Golf Galaxy. 

 

You are correct. Some heads just work better for certain deliveries than others. Not going to argue there. Not even trying to argue really!

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Callaway National Fitters Board/Adidas Staff/UST Mamiya Advisory Staff
AI Smoke Max - Lin-Q M40X Blue 
AI Smoke Max 3W - Lin-Q M40X Red
AI Smoke Max 5W - Lin-Q M40X White
Apex UW - Lin-Q M40X White
Apex Pro 24 5-8, CB 9-11 - Recoil Dart 105
JAWS Raw 54W,60Z - Recoil Wedge Proto 110
Toulon Le Mans - UST All-In
Chrome Tour

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On 9/3/2023 at 10:40 AM, JDSPGA said:

 

Yes. It's simply not forgiving. It's great out of the middle but compared to a TSR2 or a G430, Paradym X, it is awful on mishits. 

 

Sure, they have a lot of tour players playing them, but they hit the middle of the face a lot. 

 

Oh, that and Twist Face isn't real. It's just bulge and roll and every company has that....

Twist face is very real, but it requires more clubhead speed than the vast majority of golfers are capable of producing to see big benefits. If you don’t swing hard enough to launch the ball with a sub 8* face, you definitely don’t swing hard enough to launch the ball on a sub 8* low heel strike. 

-TM M3 9.5*, MRC Tensei Pro White 70TX (45”)
-TM Tour Issue Jetspeed 16.4*, Fubuki Tour 73S (1” tipped firm, 42 3/4”)
-Titleist 916 H2 19*, Fujikura Motore Speeder Tour Spec 95X
-Titleist T-MB 716 4i, Paderson KINETIXX IMRT Kevlar 950X
-Nike VR Pro Blades 4-9, DG X100
-Vokey SM6 48*bent to 47*,56*, & 60*
-Scotty Cameron Tel3 Newport (Currently)

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Where is @TaylorMade Golf with the “oh so many sleeps” count down..

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Driver: Paradym 3D Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood: Paradym 3d Ventus black TR 7x

19 degree UW: Ventus black TR 8x

Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility Hazrdus black 90 6.5 X

5 -PW: Callaway Apex MB, KBS $ taper 130X

Wedges - Jaws raw 50, 54, 59 KBS $ taper 130x

Putter- Mutant Wilson Staff 8802 with stroke lab shaft
BALL; Chrome Soft X

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5 hours ago, MCoz said:

Interesting to see all of these comments. I have just recently done some comparisons among the TM clubs I have used going back to the original SLDR 430 (Tour head). The SLDR was looking back the longest driver I have ever hit. But that was many years ago and one's age does tend to take away yards. Also I was extremely accurate with that club that many felt was unforgiving. Others were M1s (two versions) M2 (1st version), M3, M5, SIM and Sim 2 (all tour heads and where applicable were the smaller 430 and 440 cc heads) then the Stealth + and now the Stealth 2+. All with top level Fukjikura from Speeder Evolutions up to the initial debut of the Ventus line. For the SLDR in my comparisons i upgraded to the Ventus as this head predated these other shafts. Anyway for today The Stealth 2+ is the best for distance, control, forgiveness and Feel.  I didn't remember the clanky feel of the SLDR, I did correctly recall the extremely clanky feel of the first M1.  The M2 was a great driver but I could have used more adjustments as I couldn't hit all of the shots with it. The second version of M1 was a favorite and the M5 & original SIM were also. The original Stealth + could have used more adjustability thus the Stealth 2+ was what I needed. The results prove it to be a great club for me. I have two a 9* with the Ventus Blue TR 6S and I went to an 8* with the original Blue 6S in the bag.  By the way I hit the SLDR (Ventus Blue TR 6S) pretty good but it was about 8 to 10 yds shorter that the Stealth 2+. The least favorites were the first M1, M3, and SIM 2.  For perspective over the years I have tried Callaway Epic, Paradymes, Titleist TRs with the 2 probably the best for me but it wasn't surpassing the Stealth 2+

That's my 2 cents. 

Never messed with SLDR, I’m going back 17 years to 07 right now. I have been in pursuit of building older club bags and have managed to get some 07 Burner TP heads. This winter I’m going to be testing old equipment against stuff from the past couple years. 

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11 hours ago, QuigleyDU said:

Where is @TaylorMade Golf with the “oh so many sleeps” count down..

Only of they paid for corporate account posting permissions again for 2024

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PRDYMTC TOUR  9.8° + UB6 / PRDYMTC  15°@16 + UB6 / MVRKTC 18° + UB8 G430 26°@25+ IZ95 / FRGD TEC5-G + MODUS115 / MD5TC / SPDR EXTC + GPS

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Taylormade is an ROI-first company. They probably saw the carbon faces were too costly in warranties since they kept breaking.

PRDYMTC TOUR  9.8° + UB6 / PRDYMTC  15°@16 + UB6 / MVRKTC 18° + UB8 G430 26°@25+ IZ95 / FRGD TEC5-G + MODUS115 / MD5TC / SPDR EXTC + GPS

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On 9/2/2023 at 2:46 PM, BirdieBoy1 said:

I’m over the carbon garbage. Go back to titanium or whatever please 

 

once my stealth is toast or I learn to hit my driver in likely jumping ship to titliest anyway 

Sounds like the user not the driver. Carbon isn't garbage. Or are you saying the longest driving player on tour uses garbage to do it? 

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3 hours ago, third-times-a-charm said:

Taylormade is an ROI-first company. They probably saw the carbon faces were too costly in warranties since they kept breaking.

 

Ding ding ding. 180-190 ball speed player here and broke 3 of these within a couple weeks of owning them.

 

Nothing faster than Stealth 2 however. Center strike for center strike nothing was close. Rory breaking driving distance record also makes me think they may not ditch carbon unless they can get titanium almost as fast. 

Edited by PureStrikes54
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On 9/2/2023 at 5:14 PM, BURKMI19 said:

Oh man I miss the old TP stuff with the badge and aftermarket options.  Also remember lads, the manufacturers are working on releases 4-5 years ahead.  They already had 2024 planned in 2020......

 

I think there was a time that was true, but I don't think the cycle is quite that long today.   A lot more of the design can be done virtually without having to have prototypes built, which is one of the bigger time eaters.   But I agree that whatever it is, by now the next one is mostly cast in stone with respect to design.

 

For TM to back off their earlier statements relegating Ti to the museum in drivers would surely be fodder for the competition.    I don't see it happening.   Worst case might be they pause for a cycle to refine the technology if it's not ready, and put out a retro bridge product... maybe SLDR-C2 😉

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Left field theory: They'll ditch Stealth and the Carbon face, and the way they go back to titanium without making themselves look like idiots?

 

Carbotanium!

 

Just joking, but wouldn't that be something? 🤣

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Driver: TaylorMade Qi10 9* - Ventus Black 6S

Woods: TaylorMade Qi10 Tour 3 & 5 Wood - Ventus Black 7S

Hybrid: TaylorMade Qi10 Tour - Ventus Blue 85HYB Stiff

Irons: TaylorMade p790 & p770 Combo Set - KBS Tour 120g Stiff

Wedges: TaylorMade MG4 50 SB - 54 SB - 58 LBV - KBS Tour 120g Stiff

Putter: TaylorMade Spider Tour DB 35"

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I have to say, I've only seen one Stealth in play and used by an actual amateur golfer through the two iterations of the product. 

 

For every other TM release, I see dozens on a daily basis (although almost no SLDRs). 

 

M series drivers still seem to dominate on the mid-Atlantic muni circuit as far as I can tell. 

Edited by jholz
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Cleveland Launcher HB 10.5* - Stock Miyazaki C. Kua 50 Stiff
Callaway Diablo Octane Tour 13* - Aldila NV 75 Stiff
or
Callaway Diablo Edge Tour 15* - Accra Dymatch M5 75
Mizuno F-50 18* - Stock Stiff
or
Callaway Diablo Edge Tour Hybrid 21* - Aldila NV 85 Stiff
Callaway RAZR Tour Hybrid 24* - Stock XStiff
5 - PW Cleveland CG7 Tour Black Pearl - DGSL S300
Cleveland 588 RTX Rotex 2.0 50* DG Wedge
Cleveland 588 RTX Rotex 2.0 54* DG Wedge
Callaway X-Series JAWS Slate CC 58* Stock Wedge
Odyssey White Ice #7 - Golf Pride Oversize

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I wonder if they looking into going all Carbon so they won’t have the bonding issue with the current stealth line.

TaylorMade Sim Max 9* @ 7* Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 5 Reg
Ping G425 3wd @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 5 Reg 
Ping G425 7wd @ -1 Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 6 Reg
Ping G425 22 hybrid @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue HB 6 reg
PXG Gen 4 0311XP 6-GW Fujikura Axiom 75 R2 

Cleveland CBX Zipcore 50*, 56*, 60* DG Spinner Stiff stepped soft
Evnroll ER7  33” Rosemark grip

 

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22 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

I wonder if they looking into going all Carbon so they won’t have the bonding issue with the current stealth line.

I said it in the "what's tm doing" thread 2 years ago...is the future a carbon/steel mold with less glue...

 

All carbon with steel infused into the mold for better stability and to keep the weight up...

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