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On 9/3/2023 at 7:37 AM, liamw said:

Without knowing the numbers, it feels like since Stealth was originally released there have been more free agents using TSi3/TSR3, PING G425/430 LST which are all (exception of 430) titanium. Morikawa opted to use SIM. 
 

Going to be very interesting to see how they explain their way back to using some titanium components again.

 

Drivers and fairways are what they’re known for and feels like all carbon everything hasn’t quiet revolutionised the industry they would’ve hoped.

 The way they will explain it away is by full marketing bonkers on: AI. How do I know, look at the p790s....

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4 hours ago, BCC1898 said:

They wouldn't "explain" anything!  They'd just move onto the next release...gotta remember 95% of people couldn't care less about whether the driver is carbon, titanium, or something else!

Exactly, that's my point. The marketing guys won't explain anything and will just go bonkers on wowing golfers with their: "new AI speed hyper flight improved face design with progressive AI optimizations for different handicaps and ball types KAPOW." They won't bring up carbon at all if the actually move away from it and will just distract people with the new hotness.

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9 hours ago, Illinilocal92 said:

Sounds like the user not the driver. Carbon isn't garbage. Or are you saying the longest driving player on tour uses garbage to do it? 

You think those same players wouldn’t hit the same distance with another top of the line driver? 
 

get real 

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On 9/3/2023 at 10:37 AM, cmatthews77 said:

Yeah when you market the “carbon wood age” as the era of titanium is over it sort of puts you in a box. 
 

I think the best driver Taylor Made makes right now is the much cheaper M4. 

Agreed. I’ve not liked the TM drivers since the “M” series.

Callaway Epic MAX 10.5*
Callaway Mavrik MAX 15*
Taylor Made M4 19* & 22* hybrids
PING G410 5-U w/DG 105s 
Cleveland RTX 54* & 58*
Odyssey Stroke Lab Big Seven Toe Up vs MEZZ1 vs Seemore
Precision Pro Nx7 Pro, Garmin S60 (watch)


https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1580770/recaps-the-taylormade-twistfaceexperience-7-golfwrx-members-visit-the-kingdom-for-an-exclusive-m3/p1

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If they "stay" carbon I can almost guarantee they will need to do a completely new Face where it isn't a "insert" glued to Titanium. 

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Taylormade QI10LS 10.5 (@9.5) Fujikura Ventus Velocore Blue 6S (Testing Velocore + 6S)
Taylormade Stealth 2+ 15 (@14.50) Fujikura Motore Speeder 8.1S Tipped .5"
Callaway Apex "21" 19/3H Aldila Rogue Black TS95 Tipped .5"
Taylormade SLDR 4i DGSLS300S
Taylormade P750 7-PW P770 5i-6i DG AMT White S300
Taylormade MG2 52 DGTIS400, MG4TW 56/12 DGTIS400, & Tour Issued MG3 Hi Toe 60/09 DGTIS200 115
Scotty Cameron TeI3 Long Neck Newport 2 34" (34")
Bridgestone Tour B XS (Testing New TP5x)

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On 9/2/2023 at 10:40 PM, hammergolf said:

They’ve done a great job of ball speed retention with the carbon face, but they have had issues with inserts breaking or coming loose. It happened in the original and 2nd generation Stealth drivers. No doubt the concept is sound in physics, but they don’t seem to be able to get a hold on how to bond the carbon face to the body with no failure rate. If, and that’s the key word here, they can fix the bonding issue they may continue, but those engineers are smart and they haven’t been able to fix it so far through 2 releases.

Just when i thought Stealth3 meant a stable build upgrade.... you had to bring everyone back down to earth... oh well, guess im sticking with my SIM for another year!

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On 9/2/2023 at 3:18 PM, JDSPGA said:

Really good. Hate the price, but an absolute rocket. Everything else in their line right now is great, just not the drivers. 

It is crazy that a 3 wood costs $450. I am waiting for something used at around $250. The lowest I have seen on offerup is $300.

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7 hours ago, ignitewvu said:

If they "stay" carbon I can almost guarantee they will need to do a completely new Face where it isn't a "insert" glued to Titanium. 

I agree, maybe a all Carbon cup face attached to a titanium chassis.

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TaylorMade Sim Max 9* @ 7* Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 5 Reg
Ping G425 3wd @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 5 Reg 
Ping G425 7wd @ -1 Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 6 Reg
Ping G425 22 hybrid @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue HB 6 reg
PXG Gen 4 0311XP 6-GW Fujikura Axiom 75 R2 

Cleveland CBX Zipcore 50*, 56*, 60* DG Spinner Stiff stepped soft
Evnroll ER7  33” Rosemark grip

 

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On 9/5/2023 at 4:59 PM, TERRORMOTO said:

Exactly, that's my point. The marketing guys won't explain anything and will just go bonkers on wowing golfers with their: "new AI speed hyper flight improved face design with progressive AI optimizations for different handicaps and ball types KAPOW." They won't bring up carbon at all if the actually move away from it and will just distract people with the new hotness.

 

So basically doing their job? 

  • Like 1

Taylormade Qi10 9*

Taylormade Stealth 3w

Taylormade Stealth 19* Hybrid

Taylormade Stealth 22* Hybrid

Taylormade P770  5-PW

MG2 50/54

MG3 58

TM Itsy Bitsy

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12 hours ago, MCoz said:

I know and play with a lot of top level players from College to Senior tour level. Stealth 2s are the most used. I know of no one who has had a face failure!

 

Of the guys I regularly play with, there's a total of 5 (including myself) Stealth or Stealth 2's in play and all have been well so far.  What I have seen fail this year is a Cobra driver, a Titliest driver and a Ping driver last weekend!    Obviously there is failure, but it's a numbers game that people don't want to recognize, when you have a lot of product out there, the number of failures will naturally be higher.  With the way drivers are made these days, they're all susceptible to failure, especially if you're pounding away with range balls off the heel of the club.    I don't think TM would put a club into a tour players hand that had any sort of failure issues, last thing they'd want is one to blow up on TV.

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Taylormade Qi10 9*

Taylormade Stealth 3w

Taylormade Stealth 19* Hybrid

Taylormade Stealth 22* Hybrid

Taylormade P770  5-PW

MG2 50/54

MG3 58

TM Itsy Bitsy

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11 hours ago, MountainKing said:

 

Of the guys I regularly play with, there's a total of 5 (including myself) Stealth or Stealth 2's in play and all have been well so far.  What I have seen fail this year is a Cobra driver, a Titliest driver and a Ping driver last weekend!    Obviously there is failure, but it's a numbers game that people don't want to recognize, when you have a lot of product out there, the number of failures will naturally be higher.  With the way drivers are made these days, they're all susceptible to failure, especially if you're pounding away with range balls off the heel of the club.    I don't think TM would put a club into a tour players hand that had any sort of failure issues, last thing they'd want is one to blow up on TV.

I don’t have a dog in this fight since I play a TM driver, but several Tour players have had failures on their stealth driver faces during events and had to change heads mid tournament. It’s an issue. It was an issue with the previous model. Hopefully they can get it fixed in the upcoming model. 

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TaylorMade Sim Max 9* @ 7* Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 5 Reg
Ping G425 3wd @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 5 Reg 
Ping G425 7wd @ -1 Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 6 Reg
Ping G425 22 hybrid @ Flat setting Fujikura Ventus Blue HB 6 reg
PXG Gen 4 0311XP 6-GW Fujikura Axiom 75 R2 

Cleveland CBX Zipcore 50*, 56*, 60* DG Spinner Stiff stepped soft
Evnroll ER7  33” Rosemark grip

 

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Irish Open and still red-face TM driver in play on 18th.

 

image.jpeg.e4ec812ad98dd228ee7f4bc2bf5f5b37.jpeg

DRIVERS (TBD):  PXG BLACK OPS TOUR 8*,  BLACK OPS TOUR 10.5*,  BLACK OPS STD 8*;  Vanquish 4TX / Diamana WB 53x / GD AD-VF 5s / Ventus TR Black 5x / HZRDUS G4 Black 6.0 / Kaili White, Blue, Red 60x / Tensei AV Raw White/Blue 65x / Diamana S+ 60x

FAIRWAYS:  TAYLORMADE STEALTH 2+ FAIRWAYS/HYBRIDS:  R13.5( FW Rocket TI), 12.8*, Kaili White/Blue 70X;  #3 FW, 15.0*, Kaili Blue 70X/Red 75X;  #4 FW TI, 16.6*, Kaili White 70TX;  #6 FW TI, 20.3*, Kaili White 80TX;  #3 HY 19.5*, Kaili White 90TX; #4 HY 22*, Kaili White 90X

PXG GEN5 0311X, Black Label Elite, 22*, Accra TZFive, 105DI, M5

PXG 0317T, Xtreme Dark, 4 - GW, LAGP L Series, X

PXG  GEN0311XP, Double Black, 4 - LW, LAGP L Series, X

TAYLORMADE P7TW, 5 - GW, LAGP L Series, X

PXG 0311 Sugar Daddy II Milled Wedges, Xtreme Dark, 54*/10, 56*/10, 58*/10, 62*/10; // LAGP L Series, S

SCOTTY CAMERON CONCEPT X 7.2 LTD,  LAGOLF P 135g shaft // LAGOLF BEL-AIR X Forged Carbon Putter // TOULON GARAGE - Austin Custom Rose Gold // STEWART GOLF Q Follow Electric Cart..Carbon // SKYCADDIE SX550 // COBALT Q6 Slope

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Looks like that Spider Tour is featured in the video at around a minute in

Interested to try them when they come out!

Driver: TaylorMade Qi10 9* - Ventus Black 6S

Woods: TaylorMade Qi10 Tour 3 & 5 Wood - Ventus Black 7S

Hybrid: TaylorMade Qi10 Tour - Ventus Blue 85HYB Stiff

Irons: TaylorMade p790 & p770 Combo Set - KBS Tour 120g Stiff

Wedges: TaylorMade MG4 50 SB - 54 SB - 58 LBV - KBS Tour 120g Stiff

Putter: TaylorMade Spider Tour DB 35"

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25 minutes ago, gbang15 said:

2024 taylormade drivers are gonna be epic

 

Nah, Epic is Callaway 

🤭

#sarcasm 

  • Haha 1

Driver: TaylorMade Qi10 9* - Ventus Black 6S

Woods: TaylorMade Qi10 Tour 3 & 5 Wood - Ventus Black 7S

Hybrid: TaylorMade Qi10 Tour - Ventus Blue 85HYB Stiff

Irons: TaylorMade p790 & p770 Combo Set - KBS Tour 120g Stiff

Wedges: TaylorMade MG4 50 SB - 54 SB - 58 LBV - KBS Tour 120g Stiff

Putter: TaylorMade Spider Tour DB 35"

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53 minutes ago, leftygolfer15 said:

Wouldn’t be in play yet since it’s not USGA appproved but could have easily tested briefly in the pro-am.

Yes, and he is not playing a STEALTH+, SIM, TITLEIST or PING just the STEALTH 2 +.

DRIVERS (TBD):  PXG BLACK OPS TOUR 8*,  BLACK OPS TOUR 10.5*,  BLACK OPS STD 8*;  Vanquish 4TX / Diamana WB 53x / GD AD-VF 5s / Ventus TR Black 5x / HZRDUS G4 Black 6.0 / Kaili White, Blue, Red 60x / Tensei AV Raw White/Blue 65x / Diamana S+ 60x

FAIRWAYS:  TAYLORMADE STEALTH 2+ FAIRWAYS/HYBRIDS:  R13.5( FW Rocket TI), 12.8*, Kaili White/Blue 70X;  #3 FW, 15.0*, Kaili Blue 70X/Red 75X;  #4 FW TI, 16.6*, Kaili White 70TX;  #6 FW TI, 20.3*, Kaili White 80TX;  #3 HY 19.5*, Kaili White 90TX; #4 HY 22*, Kaili White 90X

PXG GEN5 0311X, Black Label Elite, 22*, Accra TZFive, 105DI, M5

PXG 0317T, Xtreme Dark, 4 - GW, LAGP L Series, X

PXG  GEN0311XP, Double Black, 4 - LW, LAGP L Series, X

TAYLORMADE P7TW, 5 - GW, LAGP L Series, X

PXG 0311 Sugar Daddy II Milled Wedges, Xtreme Dark, 54*/10, 56*/10, 58*/10, 62*/10; // LAGP L Series, S

SCOTTY CAMERON CONCEPT X 7.2 LTD,  LAGOLF P 135g shaft // LAGOLF BEL-AIR X Forged Carbon Putter // TOULON GARAGE - Austin Custom Rose Gold // STEWART GOLF Q Follow Electric Cart..Carbon // SKYCADDIE SX550 // COBALT Q6 Slope

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Here is my scary event.  I was warming up on the range for a money game with a +2 capper, myself @ 4hc, and a couple guys getting strokes at ~7-8hc.

 

I arrived at the range early and was going through my bag and got to driver (Stealth 2+ with Ventus Velicore TR Blue).  After about 6 balls, the sound on my Stealth changed.  It went from that pleasing carbon crunch sound to something that sounded like a PING G425.  I checked the head over for any flaws or face popping out and couldn't see anything wrong, but it sounded awful...metallic with a fluttering reverberation sound.  And my clubhead speed is only around 110 at best.

 

...I ended up playing it through the round and didn't drive the ball very well...but on my way home stopped by my local loyal golf store and changed to a different brand driver - and they let me hang on to my premium shaft which was really cool.  (the manager stuck a "made for" demo shaft in my flawed head and sent it back in to TM.).  The manager of the golf store tapped the butt of the driver on the hard tile floor and could tell something was not normal with the head.

 

That's the scary thing.  No obvious face popping out or compromised frame evidence, but something clearing changed/shifted with the structure of the head.  Even my playing partners notice the sound was off.

 

2024 TaylorMade needs to go back to the OG Sim v1. with Ti face.  Quit trying so hard to be funky.  The TM Ti-face fairway woods are iconic clubs and have been for years..

 

 

Edited by underwater
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TItleist TSR3 9° HZRDUS

Titleist TSR3 15° HZRDUS

PING G430h 19° Ventus HB-8

Mizuno 241 4-P KBS Tour

Vokey SM9 50f, 54s, 60m

L.A.B. Link.1

 

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1 hour ago, underwater said:

Here is my scary event.  I was warming up on the range for a money game with a +2 capper, myself @ 4hc, and a couple guys getting strokes at ~7-8hc.

 

I arrived at the range early and was going through my bag and got to driver (Stealth 2+ with Ventus Velicore TR Blue).  After about 6 balls, the sound on my Stealth changed.  It went from that pleasing carbon crunch sound to something that sounded like a PING G425.  I checked the head over for any flaws or face popping out and couldn't see anything wrong, but it sounded awful...metallic with a fluttering reverberation sound.  And my clubhead speed is only around 110 at best.

 

...I ended up playing it through the round and didn't drive the ball very well...but on my way home stopped by my local loyal golf store and changed to a different brand driver - and they let me hang on to my premium shaft which was really cool.  (the manager stuck a "made for" demo shaft in my flawed head and sent it back in to TM.).  The manager of the golf store tapped the butt of the driver on the hard tile floor and could tell something was not normal with the head.

 

That's the scary thing.  No obvious face popping out or compromised frame evidence, but something clearing changed/shifted with the structure of the head.  Even my playing partners notice the sound was off.

 

2024 TaylorMade needs to go back to the OG Sim v1. with Ti face.  Quit trying so hard to be funky.  The TM Ti-face fairway woods are iconic clubs and have been for years..

 

 


The problem is that same thing happens to all drivers, i've had a similar experience with a couple Titleist's (915D3 and TSi3). "Getting funky" is necessary to continue pushing for incremental performance gains, and that will inevitably involve weight saving strategies (like carbon faces) to achieve. Trust me I love the OG SIM, nothing has kicked it out yet, but insisting a company "stay behind" so to speak is a recipe for getting lapped by the competition, something TM obviously tries hard to stay ahead of.

  • Like 4

Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 10.5* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Stealth+ 16* Ventus Black 8x // Taylormade SIM Ti V2 16.5* Ventus TR Blue 7X
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 20* Nippon GOST Hybrid Tour X
Callaway X-Forged Single♦️  22* Nippon GOST Hybrid Tour X 
Bridgestone 
J40 DPC 4i-7i 24*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

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