Low handicaps playing with high handicaps

[AzRoger]

44 minutes ago, mshills said:

I sure do. I walk when others are playing, as long as I’m not close enough to them that it’s rude.
 

Impossible to walk/push and play ready golf without walking when someone else is playing, and it’s never distracting and definitely not poor etiquette. 
 

Same way there is absolutely nothing wrong with you marking your ball, cleaning it, and starting to assess your putt while someone else is playing a chip, pitch, bunker shot, or whatever. 

Nothing wrong with moving in front while the player is approaching their ball or accessing their shot, but once they start their pre-shot routine it's definitely poor etiquette to be still moving. It has nothing to do with ready golf which is to play your shot when you're not away and the person who is is not ready to play, that can be anywhere on the course, from tee box to putting green.

[fjroney]

35 minutes ago, mshills said:

LOL man, it’s not dependent on handicap index! If I can keep walking so I’m ready to play my next shot sooner, I’m getting a move on. That is a big part of playing efficiently. I’m not going to step in front of someone, and all my years of caddying mean I can usually keep it moving without anyone seeing or hearing me. For example, I’m not going to be on the green when someone is addressing a full 9i in, that would be silly, and I can’t walk that fast anyhow. 
 

I seriously doubt any playing partner would be offended and if you have some situational awareness they won’t even notice. Hell, the way I play golf attracts a whole lot more attention than where I’m walking. 

What’s the need to walk ahead when you’re playing with low handicap players? I played D1 college golf and compete in USGA events and have never seen this at that level. It would actually slow down the group’s pace and just create a lot of frustration. 

[fjroney]

1 minute ago, AzRoger said:

Nothing wrong with moving in front while the player is approaching their ball or accessing their shot, but once they start their pre-shot routine it's definitely poor etiquette to be still moving. It has nothing to do with ready golf which is to play your shot when you're not away and the person who is is not ready to play, that can be anywhere on the course, from tee box to putting green.

Agreed

[mshills]

6 minutes ago, fjroney said:

What’s the need to walk ahead when you’re playing with low handicap players? I played D1 college golf and compete in USGA events and have never seen this at that level. It would actually slow down the group’s pace and just create a lot of frustration. 

 

You started the thread referring to playing public golf in a major metro area. That is very different than competing in a USGA event. Again, situational awareness. 

 

I’ve been a low index too. I am no longer a low index. This has nothing to do with index. I’m out man, good luck. 

[J_Tizzle]

My group has me (roughly scratch), my brother (solid +1-2), a buddy (roughly a 1-2) and then my other friend (started as a 110 shooter, and now is down around low 80s).

 

The other buddy that started as a 110+ shooter (liberal 110), was slow as can be when he started and we talked to him about it and he's gotten better as he's gotten better (hitting less shots helps).  We play very ready golf up to the green (only time we don't is on the tee and no one jumps in front of a birdie or better).  Around the greens we'll play ready golf until everyone is on the green pretty much.  Then once we're on the green we are typically pretty consistent of farthest to closest.  We don't split hairs if someone is 32ft vs 30ft for example, we'll hit when ready.  

 

What I'd probably do play with the randoms and just let them know that you're good with ready golf lets just be considerate while others are hitting.  Then if you find someone you get paired with randomly that you like playing with, exchange numbers and slowly make your own 4some that plays the way you like so you don't get paired with randoms.  Thats how it started at my old course, knew a couple of people, couple people randomly joined us and we exchanged numbers and by the time i left we had a solid 12 golfers that would all play together.

[JJFWebster]

I play 36, sometimes 54 holes a day on the weekend because it's difficult for me to get out on weekdays. I end up joining groups as a single quite often because I'm only allowed to book 18 at a time. The main issue I run into with higher caps is waiting at the tee box. I have to wait until the group ahead is well out of range. I try to encourage my group to go to their box and hit but 75% of the time they decline. It definitely slows play, notably on the par 5's.

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, fjroney said:

What’s the need to walk ahead when you’re playing with low handicap players? I played D1 college golf and compete in USGA events and have never seen this at that level. It would actually slow down the group’s pace and just create a lot of frustration. 

LOL, if more kids walked ahead in D1 golf and stopped the never ending conversations with coach/caddies, D1 golf maybe, just maybe will someday get back to some semblance of reasonable pace - the pace of play is terrible and has been for years. 
 

I can play 18 holes with three 20 caps (assuming that is “high”) and have a great time, perfect etiquette, no worrying about anything, at a reasonable pace and get done while most college golfers are grabbing water at the turn, lol. 

[Hawkeye77]

2 minutes ago, JJFWebster said:

I play 36, sometimes 54 holes a day on the weekend because it's difficult for me to get out on weekdays. I end up joining groups as a single quite often because I'm only allowed to book 18 at a time. The main issue I run into with higher caps is waiting at the tee box. I have to wait until the group ahead is well out of range. I try to encourage my group to go to their box and hit but 75% of the time they decline. It definitely slows play, notably on the par 5's.

I see it with all sorts, no different than longer hitters waiting to hit in  - honestly, if it’s in someone’s head, let them wait a couple of minutes, and often find it’s a relative thing - you think it’s taking forever and look at your watch when you are done and pace of play is right there where it should be on a busy weekend. I’ll just laser the backside of someone out there and very occasionally say, “it’s 250 to white shirt guy”, for example, and see what happens but beyond that I just don’t butt in.  No point riding/walking up on anyone when there is no place to go, IMO. 

[Brooks_Cupcake]

On 9/7/2023 at 1:06 PM, fjroney said:

I'm curious if other scratch / low handicap players have a view on dealing with high handicap players around the greens. 

 

As a public course player I get paired with high handicapped players quite often. Tee to green they don't particularly bother me as I know better than to share a cart and am able to keep to myself and do what I need.

 

When I get to the greens however it's a different story... when playing with low and mid level handicaps I find there's a natural cadence and harmony around the greens - typically the majority of us are marking our balls, reading our putts, and then putting one after another. People know to read their putts while others are doing the same and are ready or near ready to pull the trigger when it's their turn.

 

With high handicap players it's a bit of chaos - often one or more are rushing to hit chips and long putts while I'm trying to approach and mark my ball. I realize they are playing "ready golf" and trying to keep pace while taking a lot of strokes, but it's pretty frustrating to feel like you're boxed out of accessing your own ball and reading your putt. By the time they are done hitting I usually haven't been able to read my putts or clean my ball, and then feel like everyone's eyes are on me while I'm going through the motions, which makes me go faster to try and keep the tempo up. 

 

Essentially, the majority of the variance in my game takes place on the greens, and playing with high handicappers makes it hard to focus there. Curious how others handle - do you rush your putts to maintain momentum? Do you take your time to optimize your score? Do you have a better solution I haven't discovered yet?

It’s because you play public, nothing to do with your cap vs theirs.

Everyone has the same cadence at private, some slower than others but they’re easily avoidable because you see everyone’s name on the tee sheet.

[fjroney]

5 hours ago, mshills said:

 

You started the thread referring to playing public golf in a major metro area. That is very different than competing in a USGA event. Again, situational awareness. 

 

I’ve been a low index too. I am no longer a low index. This has nothing to do with index. I’m out man, good luck. 

Nope, didn’t say anything about a major metro area. 
 

Your solution of walking 80+ yards ahead of your playing partners with any level of player is simply poor etiquette and self serving, and I feel sorry for your playing partners. 

 

[grm24]

9 hours ago, fjroney said:

Which part?

Basically your entire post. We get it. You're too good/snobby to be paired with high handicaps. Your version of golfs class warfare. We get it. You're better than others. Good riddance.

Edited September 9, 2023 by grm24

[fjroney]

3 hours ago, grm24 said:

Basically your entire post. We get it. You're too good/snobby to be paired with high handicaps. Your version of golfs class warfare. We get it. You're better than others. Good riddance.

Couldn’t be further from the truth. I respect high handicappers and want to be respectful of them which is why I’m inquiring. If anything I currently cut my own time short for their benefit. Maybe work on your reading comprehension skills - might help your handicap as well. 

[fjroney]

7 hours ago, JJFWebster said:

I play 36, sometimes 54 holes a day on the weekend because it's difficult for me to get out on weekdays. I end up joining groups as a single quite often because I'm only allowed to book 18 at a time. The main issue I run into with higher caps is waiting at the tee box. I have to wait until the group ahead is well out of range. I try to encourage my group to go to their box and hit but 75% of the time they decline. It definitely slows play, notably on the par 5's.

Good point!

[Nels55]

10 hours ago, fjroney said:

What’s the need to walk ahead when you’re playing with low handicap players? I played D1 college golf and compete in USGA events and have never seen this at that level. It would actually slow down the group’s pace and just create a lot of frustration. 

 

4 hours ago, fjroney said:

Nope, didn’t say anything about a major metro area. 
 

Your solution of walking 80+ yards ahead of your playing partners with any level of player is simply poor etiquette and self serving, and I feel sorry for your playing partners. 

 

Tour pros walk to their ball when past the fellow competitors any time that they can because they want as much time as possible to set their shots up.

 

80 yards is nothing I have many times walked to my shot inconspicuously off to the side and waited for a fellow player to his his or her shot.  I can laser the target and get ready to hit my shot while they are doing whatever they are doing.  Most experienced golfers that I have golfed with do the same if they are interested in playing efficiently and well.

[bladehunter]

On 9/8/2023 at 2:57 AM, elwhippy said:

I play with a mix of plus to 20 odd hcp players. The trick is to turn away when they are duffing chips or getting anxious. They are trying their best. The annoying habit is using a distance measuring device and proudly stating it is 165 yards. Before skanking it 110 yards into a pond. If you want to shoot a low score, pick a more competitive group. 

This.  Zone out. Don’t watch them putt or chip closely.  You have to stay aware. But without direct eye contact. And I usually back off the green farther than I would another plus/scratch handicap guy. Just give them space.   .  And if they do hit a good shot , praise them loudly and positively.  I find that takes pressure off them and let’s them settle in if they think you’re rooting for them. nothing makes it worse than  making them think that you’re annoyed or that they’re holding you up.  

Edited September 10, 2023 by bladehunter

[SNIPERBBB]

Hazard of playing with random people in casual rounds of golf . There's a minimum of expectations in such rounds. Playing with the guys that play a few times a year  you'll not get a lot good golf or etiquette out of them unless they played a lot in their younger days.  It's not a handicap issue. I play with other fellow single digits that I can't stand to play with in money games (which is why I prefer to walk).

 

Competition golf you generally see better play and etiquette because their is more expectations.

[grm24]

4 hours ago, fjroney said:

Couldn’t be further from the truth. I respect high handicappers and want to be respectful of them which is why I’m inquiring. If anything I currently cut my own time short for their benefit. Maybe work on your reading comprehension skills - might help your handicap as well. 

My reading comprehension is just fine. Based on what you've posted in this thread if you really want to help high handicappers it's very simple. Play as a single. All of your issues with high handicappers will be solved.

[getitdaily]

I play with anyone since there are times I get out on my own and pair with a group.

 

Honestly, I think you're looking for blame here. I have never had the same experience as you. I've always been able to mark my ball and read putts while others play their myriad of shots. 

 

You're over exaggerating and just not assertive enough.

[nitram]

When you play a casual round with higher handicaps than yourself, you have to view it as mental training. The distractions and pace of play is perfect for getting you out of your comfort zone and forcing you to deal with certain hindrances you normally won't encounter. Can you play 18 solid holes while dealing with mental purgatory? Can you remain amicable, obliging, and cooperative while maintaining your game?

[larrybud]

On 9/8/2023 at 1:18 PM, jholz said:

Most often, if things are going properly, the highly skilled player should be closest to the hole on any given round of shots - therefore, you will typically be hitting last in any round of shots. 

 

Not really. The highly skilled players will be hitting more greens, resulting, generally speaking, in longer putts. Gotta wait for the guys who hit 3 GIRS to chip on. Or sometimes, chip over....

[realjeffin]

I get a similar feeling with some high handicappers (or maybe more precisely, less experienced golfers) on the greens. I think in many cases they are trying to "make up" for what they perceive as slower play on their approach shots. But also for a high handicapper, an extra stroke on the green isn't as impactful compared to someone shooting closer to par. So they might not care so much about putting and reading greens for their game.

 

As long as pace of play is decent, I'll still go about getting a read and focusing in. But I'm rather quick naturally, so if I am not playing well I'll find myself falling into just stepping up and whacking it.

[Louis_Posture]

The game is player against the course. Consider that Tiger and his playing partners have dealt with constant distractions and shot low scores.

[Louis_Posture]

On 9/9/2023 at 7:11 AM, fjroney said:

What’s the need to walk ahead when you’re playing with low handicap players? I played D1 college golf and compete in USGA events and have never seen this at that level. It would actually slow down the group’s pace and just create a lot of frustration. 

Rory Sabatini routinely walks ahead of his playing partners to the green , and sometimes even putts out before others have reached the green.

[bladehunter]

On 9/9/2023 at 4:22 PM, grm24 said:

Basically your entire post. We get it. You're too good/snobby to be paired with high handicaps. Your version of golfs class warfare. We get it. You're better than others. Good riddance.

That’s just not reality as a whole . The higher handicap that can play with a group of scratch guys and not be noticed is the exception not the rule. There’s a different cadence and flow entirely for a 4 some of scratch guys vs 2 scratch guys and 2 15 handicaps.  I play versions of both weekly.  It’s not the same. And he’s right. Around the greens is the place it gets odd. It’s not bad , untenable or even wrong.  It’s just different.   Again. I’ll play with anybody. Happily.  But you play and set expectations around the green differently.  
 

1.  You want to create a lot more distance from them while they chip or putt. As a courtesy.  You can walk up close to a high handicap guy before he goes and almost predict he’ll duff the chip because of the feeling of pressure.   But you can stand beside or off to the side of a scratch guy and he won’t even know you’re there. And we ALL do this if it’s a 4 some of better players. We crowd each other quite a bit compared to the other scenarios to get a peek at the break etc.    but we do it in the correct spot. And with no noise. 
 

2.   Putting.  And the target  line. If you’re playing with higher handicap guys , you’ll have to be prepared to back off. You’ll get people walking across the visual line you’re putting or chipping on as you are over the ball.  That’s the one place we all know to stay out of. The target line .  They’ll make laps  behind the hole for various reasons.  
 

im not going to harp on this or even go into great detail at the moment. At least 2 members here are aware of this situation I had happen yesterday…. I lived  this very thing in our club championship as I was in the champ flight group with 3 plus handicap/scratch guys and a kid who played out of his mind the first day and got paired with the leading  group ( us).  We baby sat all day. And on hole 7 it cost me my shot at winning.  And it’s fine. Was an honest mistake he feels horrible about.  But it happened. And it’s not rare.  

Edited September 11, 2023 by bladehunter

[Louis_Posture]

On 9/9/2023 at 5:35 PM, Nels55 said:

 

Tour pros walk to their ball when past the fellow competitors any time that they can because they want as much time as possible to set their shots up.

 

 

Yes. in his early pro years Jack Nicklaus was long off the tee box and waited for his playing partners before moving to his ball. The criticism stopped once he started going directly to his ball instead of waiting.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

My buddy is still a fairly high handicap though he's gotten a lot better about etiquette over time, and most of the people he knows and invites to play are high handicaps. It's definitely a different mindset playing with them. I just let them do their thing until I know and it's clear to everyone it's my turn to play. 

[aramirez24]

I played on Sunday with my dad in a monthly group game we've been doing for years. Normally it's pretty average handicaps using a simple handicap calculation the guy who runs it uses (half of the differential of your handicap on that Sunday is added/subtracted to your monthly handicap each month) and we use a stableford to keep score. For the most part it works pretty well. This weekend we got paired with two guys listed as 32 handicaps and honestly if they kept a true score 32 was generous.. I usually don't care about playing with people that aren't great, but it got to me this weekend. Multiple balls off the tee, duffs left and right. 6-7 shots to get to the green and then pick up at the end of the hole and say "give me double". We lost the group in front of us by hole 4 and luckily the group behind us was equally bad and never pushed us. At the turn these dudes stopped for 20 minutes to buy tacos and beers while we sat at the box waiting on them. If we weren't keeping their score for the group we would've just left them behind. I'd say 90% of the time I'll play with anyone, but these guys were in my 10%. Just have a bit of awareness and understanding of pace of play and we can play together imo.

[mshills]

19 minutes ago, aramirez24 said:

At the turn these dudes stopped for 20 minutes to buy tacos and beers while we sat at the box waiting on them. If we weren't keeping their score for the group we would've just left them behind.

That is unacceptable for any index.  I'd have been on #10 green by the time they got out of the snack bar....though I sort of understand why you didn't bounce.

[jholz]

15 hours ago, larrybud said:

Not really. The highly skilled players will be hitting more greens, resulting, generally speaking, in longer putts. Gotta wait for the guys who hit 3 GIRS to chip on. Or sometimes, chip over....

 

Um yeah...I think we are barking up the same tree here. 

[wagolfer7]

5 hours ago, bladehunter said:

im not going to harp on this or even go into great detail at the moment. At least 2 members here are aware of this situation I had happen yesterday…. I lived  this very thing in our club championship as I was in the champ flight group with 3 plus handicap/scratch guys and a kid who played out of his mind the first day and got paired with the leading  group ( us).  We baby sat all day. And on hole 7 it cost me my shot at winning.  And it’s fine. Was an honest mistake he feels horrible about.  But it happened. And it’s not rare.  

 

Can't throw this down and leave it at that.  I can't imagine someone doing something that would cost you a win.  What can someone do in this situation to cost you a win?