Chipping on the green

[Newby]

18 minutes ago, rogolf said:

Okay.  However, I strongly suspect that there are several unauthorized and inconsistent local rules at clubs around the world and that scores from play at those clubs are being submitted for competitions and for handicap purposes.

Very likely

[betarhoalphadelta]

Heck, golf.com suggests that the members at Riviera aren't allowed to chip on the 6th green... 

 

 

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

On 12/10/2023 at 1:41 PM, AzRoger said:

Remember watching Paul Azinger many years ago taking chip shots with his wedge on the practice chipping green at the WM Phoenix Open, clipped them all clean with no divots, pretty impressive.

Riviera in LA has a bunker right in the middle of a par 3 green, not unusual to see tour players chipping on the green there.

Think I've told this one before, but there was an anecdote in one of Pelz's books (might've been one of McCord's) about Zinger chipping in an asphalt parking lot (God knows why) and being asked if that was hard on his clubs.  He replied, I have my name on my bag or, no, I'm a professional. 

 

I think Pelz was making some point about tight lies and divots.  Maybe about Zinger's personality too, I dunno?

[Mike_C]

On 12/11/2023 at 9:10 AM, golfortennis said:

First time I ever saw a green really designed where you might have to play that type of shot was University of Michigan course, a McKenzie design.  Two of them in fact.  Both times I played they had signs stating you weren't allowed to chip on the green.  Thankfully I've yet come across a shot that might require a chip on a green.   I'd be more nervous about damaging than I would pulling the shot off I think.

I have played there many times, but it has been many many years ago.  I do remember this green as one of them, #6 UMGC. I don't remember the other.....

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, Mike_C said:

I have played there many times, but it has been many many years ago.  I do remember this green as one of them, #6 UMGC. I don't remember the other.....

 

Par 3, # 16 I believe.  Not as dramatic but there are hole locations that would call for a chip in a competitive event.

 

 

[nsxguy]

Check out the first 2 chips in this video from last(?) week in Mauritius.

 

 

[bobfoster]

On 12/11/2023 at 1:18 PM, Pepperturbo said:

Though it's frowned upon by Superintendents, Pros are allowed during tournament play, if needed, to chip on the green.  There is one par 3 hole at Riviera CC and a few at Pebble Beach where Pros are seen on TV doing exactly that.   

 

The public or club membership are not allowed because 99% would destroy the green surface with their hack at the ball.

 

Yeah - this makes a lot of sense. There's no rule against it in the RoG, and local rules probably can't, technically, make it illegal. But it is one of several informal rules that are fairly universal in amateur golf. Rarely written, but traditionally widely followed. It somehow feels like a taboo. I've never done it, but would likely shudder with a cringe if I stood over a ball on the green with a wedge - filled with the completely irrational certainty that the greenskeeper had picked that hole to watch (hidden in the trees) on that particular day. 🤣

 

Further, in practice (from what I've observed) most amateurs not only don't think about doing it, they bend over backwards in the opposite direction - common to see guys five or 10 (or even 15) feet off the green and using a putter. Unless someone has gotten pretty good, they often don't really trust their wedges ... and greens, almost by definition, would be the tightest and most difficult lies on the course for them. It is far more likely, in common play on public courses, to see someone using a putter when they should be using a wedge, than it is to see someone using a wedge when they should be using a putter. Not because of any rule (written or unwritten), but more because a lot of people just suck at wedges.

 

At the pro level (and with really good amateurs), it's different. "Chipping" means something quite different than it does with casual golfers. They have a great deal more precision. I've seen a number of pros do it over the years in the US and EU. In almost all cases you could barely tell they did it. They barely brushed the green. Chipping on a green doesn't mean you have to take a huge fairway divot on the green. Indeed, there's generally more of a (very temporary) indentation made by simply standing there in shoes than the club itself will make if it just lightly kisses the grass. 

 

But even the pros rarely do it, mostly because as a general principle, unless the flag is in a difficult location on an particularly undulating green, they usually want the ball rolling as soon as they can. If the ball is five feet off the green, and the pin is 20 feet away, they'll usually do a bump and run - fly the five feet onto the green but get it rolling the rest of the way (instead of trying to fly it all the way to the pin). 

 

Anyway - a fun topic, even if obscure. The occasions when people would even think about doing it are rare, and the times they'd actually choose to do it even rarer. 

 

But this is WRX. And it's winter. 

[Rob G 89]

If you did chip on green and made divot would you fill it with the cart seed mixture or just leave it?

[Pepperturbo]

17 hours ago, bobfoster said:

 

Yeah - this makes a lot of sense. There's no rule against it in the RoG, and local rules probably can't, technically, make it illegal. But it is one of several informal rules that are fairly universal in amateur golf. Rarely written, but traditionally widely followed. It somehow feels like a taboo. I've never done it, but would likely shudder with a cringe if I stood over a ball on the green with a wedge - filled with the completely irrational certainty that the greenskeeper had picked that hole to watch (hidden in the trees) on that particular day. 🤣

 

Further, in practice (from what I've observed) most amateurs not only don't think about doing it, they bend over backwards in the opposite direction - common to see guys five or 10 (or even 15) feet off the green and using a putter. Unless someone has gotten pretty good, they often don't really trust their wedges ... and greens, almost by definition, would be the tightest and most difficult lies on the course for them. It is far more likely, in common play on public courses, to see someone using a putter when they should be using a wedge, than it is to see someone using a wedge when they should be using a putter. Not because of any rule (written or unwritten), but more because a lot of people just suck at wedges.

 

At the pro level (and with really good amateurs), it's different. "Chipping" means something quite different than it does with casual golfers. They have a great deal more precision. I've seen a number of pros do it over the years in the US and EU. In almost all cases you could barely tell they did it. They barely brushed the green. Chipping on a green doesn't mean you have to take a huge fairway divot on the green. Indeed, there's generally more of a (very temporary) indentation made by simply standing there in shoes than the club itself will make if it just lightly kisses the grass. 

 

But even the pros rarely do it, mostly because as a general principle, unless the flag is in a difficult location on an particularly undulating green, they usually want the ball rolling as soon as they can. If the ball is five feet off the green, and the pin is 20 feet away, they'll usually do a bump and run - fly the five feet onto the green but get it rolling the rest of the way (instead of trying to fly it all the way to the pin). 

 

Anyway - a fun topic, even if obscure. The occasions when people would even think about doing it are rare, and the times they'd actually choose to do it even rarer. 

 

But this is WRX. And it's winter. 

True. 

 

None of the members at each of the clubs attempt it, probably out of respect or fear.  But there's always some ramekin that thinks he's exempt from unstated rules for us humanoids.  He's also the wack nut that lacking dexterity, can't replace the flag stick in the cup without ruining the cup edge.

[Ri_Redneck]

I was playing at a 9-hole public course in RI one Fathers Day and some guy, who apparently had just started playing golf, hit an errant tee shot onto the green we had just left. He was actually playing a hole ahead of us and all these holes were adjacent. We saw the ball land as we were leaving the tee on the par 3 next hole and didn't think anything of it. We get down to the par 3 green and hear a bunch of screaming coming from back up at the tee and previous green. The guy (nor the ones he was playing with) wasn't aware it was a free drop from the green and proceeded to rip a 5i right off the putting surface along with a sizable divot!! The heads greens keeper was nearby and the one doing the screaming. Initially to try to keep the guy from hitting the shot and afterwards, reaming him out to no end!! I've never heard such creative swearing in my life as he followed them up to the parking lot and made them leave. We were all in utter disbelief!

 

BT

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Ri_Redneck said:

wasn't aware it was a free drop from the green

 

 

Not only a free drop, but a required drop (since 2019, this includes your stance and area of swing). Used to be 25-3, now 13.1(f).

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by iacas
removed word "now".

[Ri_Redneck]

38 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

 

Not only a free drop, but a required drop (since 2019, this includes your stance and area of swing). Used to be 25-3, now 13.1(f).

 

Yeah, we kinda felt bad for the guy. I mean, the GK was REALLY laying into him bad.

 

BT

[mshills]

39 minutes ago, Ri_Redneck said:

Yeah, we kinda felt bad for the guy. I mean, the GK was REALLY laying into him bad.

 

BT

What an a**. That is uncalled for, and I bet the drunken DBs who typically do far more damage to the course don’t receive the same treatment. High likelihood someone playing a 9 hole course just doesn’t know, and in that case, teaching is called for, not chewing. Not like that divot can’t be resolved by any even half competent guy. 
 

My wife is getting started in the game, and if she received that on account of not knowing what to do, there would be a Problem.

[ChipNRun]

About twice a year, I will end up chipping with a 7i rather than using a putter, when on the green. 

 

Situation usually involves being above the hole, especially on the wrong level of a terraced green.

 

The stroke is a putting stroke that gets just a touch of backspin on the ball to stabilize it. Then, it goes over the edge of the terrace with force of gravity, very little momentum from club.

 

Years ago I was playing an uphill par 5 hole with a terraced green. Laying two about 50 yards short, I hit a too-thin PW that rolled past the cup on the lower terrace and up onto the upper level.

 

To salvage the hole, I hit a slight cut chip shot, trickled it over the edge, and rolled it into the cup for a wild birdie.

 

A couple of times a year I'll nestle a slalom chip to near the cup for a tap-in. But, no more birdies so far from above the hole.                                               

[TomScht]

On 12/9/2023 at 3:04 PM, TomScht said:

I wonder why I never see the pros on TV chip from the green.  If they're a couple of feet off the green they like chipping, even if the pin is quite close, but once they're on, nada.  

This is OP.  Anyone got an opinion about this?

[nsxguy]

27 minutes ago, TomScht said:

This is OP.  Anyone got an opinion about this?

 

I don't understand. Why are you trying to keep your thread alive ?

 

Have you read your own thread ? You've already gotten the answers.

 

It's not against the rules. And despite you never having seen it, the pros sometimes do it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

 

[davep043]

 

32 minutes ago, TomScht said:

This is OP.  Anyone got an opinion about this?

 

Here are a couple from earlier in the thread.

 

On 12/10/2023 at 7:42 AM, bluedot said:

I think the simplest reason is that it is MUCH easier to start the ball on your intended line by rolling it rather than by starting with some amount of carry.  Add to that the fact that it is much easier to control distance rolling the ball than with some ratio of carry and roll.  Which is why we putt in the first place…

 

And add to that the fact that you’re chipping on the tightest lie on the golf course, which makes loft problematic at best.  

 

 

On 12/23/2023 at 7:14 PM, bobfoster said:

But even the pros rarely do it, mostly because as a general principle, unless the flag is in a difficult location on an particularly undulating green, they usually want the ball rolling as soon as they can. If the ball is five feet off the green, and the pin is 20 feet away, they'll usually do a bump and run - fly the five feet onto the green but get it rolling the rest of the way (instead of trying to fly it all the way to the pin). 

 

[caniac6]

I played Tot Hill Farm shortly after it opened, and there were several greens that would have required chipping depending on the hole location. I didn’t have to, but I did see evidence of players that did. 

[Hawkeye77]

22 hours ago, TomScht said:

This is OP.  Anyone got an opinion about this?

If you took the time to read them, several have been posted. It’s been almost 2 months.
 

A non-question to start with with obvious answers.

 

 

Edited February 4 by Hawkeye77

[TomScht]

On 2/3/2024 at 9:51 AM, davep043 said:

 

 

Here are a couple from earlier in the thread.

 

 

I read those but to me, the grass around the greens is almost as smooth as the greens and doesn't need to get chipped over, so the reason the pros do it is chipping improves chances of a hole-out.  So I was thinking there is another reason for not doing the same while on the green, maybe like a fine..    Maybe I'm the only one who is wondering.

 

 

Edited February 5 by TomScht

[davep043]

8 minutes ago, TomScht said:

I read those but to me, the grass around the greens is almost as smooth as the greens and doesn't need to get chipped over, so the reason the pros do it is chipping improves chances of a hole-out.

There's a difference between "almost as smooth" and truly smooth.  The best players are so good at chipping they'd rather eliminate any uncertainty about speed or unevenness that might come from putting from anywhere but the green.

[SNIPERBBB]

On 12/9/2023 at 4:04 PM, TomScht said:

I'm pretty sure there's no rule that forbids chipping on the green.  My dad saw Ben Hogan do it once, he took a divot and replaced it.  I've not seen a scorecard that forbids it, either. 

So I wonder why I never see the pros on TV chip from the green.  If they're a couple of feet off the green they like chipping, even if the pin is quite close, but once they're on, nada.  

It does happen on tour Woodland did it somewhat recently at the US Open. Its usually an oddity of the green that causes one to contemplate it. Like a bunker in the middle of the green or you have to go through the fringe with a putt, etc.

[TomScht]

I did see this quote in Inside Golf "Most golf pros will tell you, chip when you need to hole it, putt when you want to get it down in two." So you'd think you'd see more chipping on the green.  That's why I was thinking it was discouraged.

[st1800e]

31 minutes ago, TomScht said:

I did see this quote in Inside Golf "Most golf pros will tell you, chip when you need to hole it, putt when you want to get it down in two." So you'd think you'd see more chipping on the green.  That's why I was thinking it was discouraged.

Ok, I now see why you’re asking.  Typically that quote is made in reference to being off the green.  Not when the ball is on the green.  Putting on the green (with no obstacles) is a far higher percentage make than chipping on the green. 

[davep043]

2 hours ago, TomScht said:

I did see this quote in Inside Golf "Most golf pros will tell you, chip when you need to hole it, putt when you want to get it down in two." So you'd think you'd see more chipping on the green.  That's why I was thinking it was discouraged.

 

1 hour ago, st1800e said:

Ok, I now see why you’re asking.  Typically that quote is made in reference to being off the green.  Not when the ball is on the green.  Putting on the green (with no obstacles) is a far higher percentage make than chipping on the green. 

I'm not sure about this particular bit of "wisdom", but much old-school conventional wisdom has been statistically shown to be bad advice.  "Lay up to a good yardage" specifically comes to mind.   

[st1800e]

35 minutes ago, davep043 said:

 

I'm not sure about this particular bit of "wisdom", but much old-school conventional wisdom has been statistically shown to be bad advice.  "Lay up to a good yardage" specifically comes to mind.   

Agreed, and I wasn’t implying that it is “wisdom” just correcting the context for the OP.  
Ray Floyd might think chipping is wiser, but he’s an outlier….😉

Cheers.  

[nsxguy]

22 hours ago, davep043 said:

 

I'm not sure about this particular bit of "wisdom", but much old-school conventional wisdom has been statistically shown to be bad advice.  "Lay up to a good yardage" specifically comes to mind.   

 

A bit apples and oranges I think.

 

While there is much data to prove getting closer to the green will more often give you better chances to score, I doubt there is much data on "chipping while on the green" to even analyze.

 

Chipping while on the green is an "emergency"; no other reasonable choice.

 

As for the actual Floyd(?) "advice", I think it depends on the player. A higher handicapper will putt the ball almost 100% of the time.

 

As the 'cap gets lower the chipping aspect of the advice becomes more sound, to eliminate the more variable surface up to the green itself. Chip it if you really need to make it; putt it if an "up and down" is good enough.

[st1800e]

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

As for the actual Floyd(?) "advice",

Didn’t intend to imply that was his “advice”, and I would doubt that would be his advice to the average golfer, just what worked for him, he was quite possibly the best chipper in his day.  

[davep043]

37 minutes ago, st1800e said:

Didn’t intend to imply that was his “advice”, and I would doubt that would be his advice to the average golfer, just what worked for him, he was quite possibly the best chipper in his day.  

Heck, who knows that he wouldn't have shot lower scores by putting some of those times when he was only a few inches off the green.  But he made that choice consistently, and had a dang good career, so I'm sure there are no regrets.

[Hawkeye77]

On 2/5/2024 at 11:04 AM, TomScht said:

I did see this quote in Inside Golf "Most golf pros will tell you, chip when you need to hole it, putt when you want to get it down in two." So you'd think you'd see more chipping on the green.  That's why I was thinking it was discouraged.

Of course, you already know they aren't talking about chipping on the green. Come on now.