As a weekend golfer, why do I want "to grow the game"?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

8 minutes ago, TiScape said:

I’m officially blaming social media. TikTok, Instagram etc. My favorites are the ppl that get all their “news”/info from these sites. Just when you thought ppl couldn’t get any dumber! 
If you need me I’ll be in my cabin in the woods. 

So true!

[BlackDiamondPar5]

59 minutes ago, jordan2240 said:

I'm 63, and one of the guys I play with regularly is 93.  Based on who I see on the courses I play, no one is aging out of the game.  Dying out maybe, but not aging out.

Agreed. Also adding in that I've never seen more teens, twentysomethings and women golfing than I have in the last 3 years. It has nothing to do with the clown show of TV PGA golf or the hard to find LIV despite their nonsensical rhetoric of "growing the game. " It's 100% driven by the pandemic and the overall growing interest to get outside. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by BlackDiamondPar5

[596]

Feel free to grow the game. But paying millionaire golfers hundreds of millions of dollars is not growing the game.  

 

"Hey, John Ralmn just got a contract worth $600,000,000. I think I'll go buy some clubs and play golf."  NOT

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by 596

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

4 hours ago, The Pearl said:

"Grow the game" really means increase players/revenues without corresponding "management" of the obvious 2nd order effects.

 

There are obvious exceptions, but I have argued that golf courses are, in general, are horribly managed.

What part do you see horribly managed? Just curious. Interested to know what you have to say.

[jimecherry]

1 hour ago, 596 said:

Feel free to grow the game. But paying millionaire golfers hundreds of millions of dollars is not growing the game.  

 

"Hey, John Ralmn just got a contract worth $600,000,000. I think I'll go buy some clubs and play golf."  NOT

 

 

 

 

 

what if john rahm started a help a broke golfer out charity fund ;}

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, KNOWMOREDOUBLES said:

What part do you see horribly managed? Just curious. Interested to know what you have to say.

 

Tee times slammed together, and fear of ticking off a slow group of four overriding the fear of losing the 15 groups behind that group for not doing anything about it.  For starters.

[hunterdog]

When the television pros, whether LIV or PGAT players, say they want to “grow the game”, they are only referring to how much money they can have. That is single and sole reason. 

[NormanFan]

6 hours ago, 596 said:

Feel free to grow the game. But paying millionaire golfers hundreds of millions of dollars is not growing the game.  

 

"Hey, John Ralmn just got a contract worth $600,000,000. I think I'll go buy some clubs and play golf."  NOT

 

 

 

 

 

This is exactly what I say when people here argue that LIV is somehow going to become this big force because the players are playing for so much money (or moreso receiving it).  Like, how is that supposed to excite me as a viewer?  Why do I care?  I'm not going to see a dime of that.

 

I also see golf going back to the pre-Tiger days.  There's no one out there that's going to excite people here in the U.S., even less so when it gets taken over by a foreign entity that hates the U.S.

Edited December 11, 2023 by NormanFan

[wombat_vortex]

What I fear with all this stuff, is that golf will become the equivalent of old guy trying to look cool wearing clothes that a 20 year old would wear.  It just comes off cringy.  To put it in terms people may understand these days, golf isn't a Tic Tok video, it's a 3 hour podcast. Both are very popular, but quite different, and one will never be the other.

[kmbean]

Golf was the best pre-Tiger.  It was just more relaxed, not as expensive and courses were not as crowded.  As somebody else mentioned I don’t remember such persistent pace of play issues as I see now.

[jordan2240]

6 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

and the overall growing interest to get outside. 

Which is definitely a good thing.  On one hand, more people on the course is annoying, but on the other, it's better for the course financially, so I'd rather have to play a little slow at times than not play at all.  I suppose shows like "full swing" on Netflix could foster some interest among those who had no interest in golf, but as you note, nothing any of the pro leagues do will do a thing since the only people who watch them already have a golf interest.

[ilikegolf26]

19 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Agreed. Also adding in that I've never seen more teens, twentysomethings and women golfing than I have in the last 3 years. It has nothing to do with the clown show of TV PGA golf or the hard to find LIV despite their nonsensical rhetoric of "growing the game. " It's 100% driven by the pandemic and the overall growing interest to get outside. 

It’s driven by social media and the clown “influencers” on there that these mind numb robots “follow” and are influenced by. 

[Maine Golfer]

Nobody at home is like "ive never heard of golf". Its just a slogan for the people making coin off golf. 

[tiderider]

On 12/9/2023 at 8:57 PM, Chunkitgood said:

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, “Golf was sweet before Woods.”  A lot of people playing now have no idea how sweet.  Strolling around the course without some guys breathing around your nice, yet finishing faster.  Getting a beer and sandwich at the turn.  Still finishing faster.  Far fewer duffers on the course, and proportionally more people who could play.  Everybody polite and considerate of others…well,  mostly.  Making a 10 foot putt did not elicit screams of delight and celebration dances.

yep ... the 'bro' attitude ... got me a brand new driver, gonna swing as hard as i can cause it makes me an ATHA-LEATE like tiger, or even better, like a pro football player ... not tiger's fault, but the new guys coming out want to hit it long and yell every time they did the equivalent on the course of wiping their butt ... golf needs the right kind of growth, though many will think that's a snobbish comment ... from a business/tactical standpoint, teams golfers playing a different professional format for obscene amounts of money ain't gonna grow the game, imo ... but nothing the pgat or usga does is going to grow it, either ... 

[golfortennis]

58 minutes ago, ilikegolf26 said:

It’s driven by social media and the clown “influencers” on there that these mind numb robots “follow” and are influenced by. 

 

Nah, it was the lockdowns.  The people who are influenced by that have either already lost interest or have been influenced into something else.

 

I said from the start we would probably see a semi-permanent uptick of about 20% who started/returned to golf when there were no other options who will stick with it once other options returned.  I may have been a bit low, but I know our tee sheet at our club has seen the change already.  Other clubs are starting to offer deals again, bringing back the rotating groups.  

 

I think all that influencer stuff is highly overrated, and those who say it pays are the same people who are paying in the first place, but they couldn't actually put any hard data down showing it leads to anything more than views, which are not sales.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Yeah I don't think social media is driving many to play golf, especially women. For instance I see my wife and her friends that only previously dabbled in golf before the pandemic but then the pandemic kicked up their desire to play more. They found out they really like it and have just kept playing. They certainly weren't driven by social media influencers. It's great for me because now my wife asks me "do we want to play golf today?" 😁

[blblco02]

Well said OP. If anything I want less golfers clogging up courses around me. Obviously course owners and companies in the golf space would feel differently. 

[ilikegolf26]

51 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

Nah, it was the lockdowns.  The people who are influenced by that have either already lost interest or have been influenced into something else.

 

I said from the start we would probably see a semi-permanent uptick of about 20% who started/returned to golf when there were no other options who will stick with it once other options returned.  I may have been a bit low, but I know our tee sheet at our club has seen the change already.  Other clubs are starting to offer deals again, bringing back the rotating groups.  

 

I think all that influencer stuff is highly overrated, and those who say it pays are the same people who are paying in the first place, but they couldn't actually put any hard data down showing it leads to anything more than views, which are not sales.

Yeah, I mean your private club is not really indicative of the guys and girls in their teens and 20s that are the target audience I’m talking about. I’m a publinks player so I see this a little more clearly playing munis than your “club.”  I play with guys all the time “do you watch Bob does sports? Did you see that Barstool event, etc.” 

And I believe the daily fee courses are what the OP was talking about to begin with. 

 

 

The private club people joined a club in 2020/2021 because they had nothing else to spend their money on and, despite being a sunk cost, probably don’t want to give up their memberships yet because of the initiation fee they paid.

Edited December 11, 2023 by ilikegolf26

[ilikegolf26]

17 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Yeah I don't think social media is driving many to play golf, especially women. For instance I see my wife and her friends that only previously dabbled in golf before the pandemic but then the pandemic kicked up their desire to play more. They found out they really like it and have just kept playing. They certainly weren't driven by social media influencers. It's great for me because now my wife asks me "do we want to play golf today?" 😁

How old are you and your wife?

[kasting333]

Golf’s decision makers (USGA, Augusta and R&A) have decided they want this game to remain an elitist hobby. Their initiatives are never to make the game more affordable or lower all the other barriers to entry… it’s all about maintaining their status as top dogs and showing off their playgrounds. 
 

Golf could be turned into more of an actual sport rather than a quasi sport ruled by hobbyists but it would have to separate from these old money elites 

Edited December 11, 2023 by kasting333

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

21 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

It's 100% driven by the pandemic and the overall growing interest to get outside. 

Don't discount either alternative venues like simulator bars or TopGolf.  Lots of places these days to pick up a club and whack a ball, only now with a plate of nachos and a pitcher of beer sitting right behind you.  While a TV screen lets you know about your awesome 285 yd drive on Pebble's 6th.

 

Every time I'm at TopGolf (it has the salient feature of not closing at 5PM, unlike most ranges around here), it's usually packed, and most of those are teens/young adults.

 

Lot of interest in some parts of the golf experience.

[Itsjustagame]

Population of the US has grown by 50 million people in the past 20 years. There are more people everwhere including golf courses.

[KennyP]

15 hours ago, kmbean said:

 As somebody else mentioned I don’t remember such persistent pace of play issues as I see now.

 

Pace of play has a direct correlation to the increased 'screw everyone else' attitude so prevalent in today's society.

[Titleist99]

On 12/9/2023 at 7:24 PM, manku said:

We've all heard it hundreds of times over the years...the pros are always saying they want to "grow the game".   Especially the LIV fellas.

 

Well, I understand why it's good for them...more money, more fame, more everything.   Most businesses want to grow.

 

But as a non-professional, weekend duffer, how is this good for me in any way?

 

Courses are more crowded, green fees are higher, tickets/concessions to tour events are pricier, equipment and apparel costs keeps climbing.

 

None of that helps me.

 

Why do these guys think this is a benefit to us?  

 

The question is:  What happens if we don't grow the game?

 

1. prices will continue to rise due to inflation and lack of revenue.

 

2. Golf courses will continue to close and that means a lack of access.

 

3, less television media. don't want to go back to seeing just the back nine on Sundays.

 

4. the game needs youth and innovation (IMO)

 

*Plus, golf is the coolest game in the world, and everyone should be playing it.😎

[BlackDiamondPar5]

29 minutes ago, ilikegolf26 said:

How old are you and your wife?

50's/early 60s like most my friends I speak of. Why? 

 

It's not even my demographic where golf has caught on. Private club ranks have also swelled significantly since 2020. Many new members are in their 20s and early 30s. They are spending some serious cash because they like golf. I also see way more women golfers now. Lots of private clubs had new member incentives through 2019 but are full now.

 

My public course used to be sparsely attended on a Sunday afternoon but it's been quite busy the last couple of years...more couples and more teens and early 20s for sure. 

 

[ilikegolf26]

5 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

50's/early 60s like most my friends I speak of. Why? 

 

It's not even my demographic where golf has caught on. Private club ranks have also swelled significantly since 2020. Many new members are in their 20s and early 30s. They are spending some serious cash because they like golf. I also see way more women golfers now. Lots of private clubs had new member incentives through 2019 but are full now.

 

My public course used to be sparsely attended on a Sunday afternoon but it's been quite busy the last couple of years...more couples and more teens and early 20s for sure. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

50's/early 60s like most my friends I speak of. Why? 

 

It's not even my demographic where golf has caught on. Private club ranks have also swelled significantly since 2020. Many new members are in their 20s and early 30s. They are spending some serious cash because they like golf. I also see way more women golfers now. Lots of private clubs had new member incentives through 2019 but are full now.

 

My public course used to be sparsely attended on a Sunday afternoon but it's been quite busy the last couple of years...more couples and more teens and early 20s for sure. 

 

Yeah, you and your wife and her friends are not the target of any serious influencer. Not much influencing on Facebook or Nextdoor. 😉

Edited December 11, 2023 by ilikegolf26

[Ferguson]

16 hours ago, hunterdog said:

When the television pros, whether LIV or PGAT players, say they want to “grow the game”, they are only referring to how much money they can have. That is single and sole reason. 

 

 

The hell with people that want to advance their careers, make better lives for themselves and increase their income potential. 

 

 

 

[woodriff]

I want to grow the game to get more golfers on our small city track. We have 18 holes, nice course.

Our Jr program grew from non existent to 60 jr boys and girls. Tracing it back Covid at the club was a financial windfall, and that might be part of it. 
 

Why any weekend golf wouldn’t want to grow the game is a moot point; with respect to the OP. 
 

[Titleist99]

The game is growing just fine. The young eventually gets old and any contact with the game of golf will eventually get into the participant's blood.

 

For those that live in a bubble, Topgolf and these guys are extremely popular:

 

1899 Indoor Golf Simulators & Private Lounge | Food & Craft Drinks (1899golf.com)

 

They even have a private tasting room where you pay a fee and keep your favorite bottle of spirits there for access when you visit. I wonder if Tiger and Justin Timberlake are as nice as this one.

 

~What do you think?

 

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Titleist99

[Greenie]

15 hours ago, kmbean said:

Golf was the best pre-Tiger.  It was just more relaxed, not as expensive and courses were not as crowded.  As somebody else mentioned I don’t remember such persistent pace of play issues as I see now.

 

7 minutes ago, KennyP said:

 

Pace of play has a direct correlation to the increased 'screw everyone else' attitude so prevalent in today's society.

 

I agree.. I started playing golf back in the late 80's. My first time out with my friends that had been playing for a while told me we are suppose to finish in four hours so if need be I'll have to pick up to keep up with pace. We had a mid afternoon tee time. I mentioned about next time playing in the morning and the reply was that we were not good enough to play early in the morning.

 

Earlier this year we had an 8:10 tee time. It was a 5:15 round. Three groups packed it in while were waiting on 16. After our round when I was in the clubhouse a staffer asked me how we enjoyed our round. A guy overheard my reply and says I am sorry that was my group. I am an experienced golfer but the three guys I brought with me it was their first time playing. I replied your not an experienced golfer because if you were you wouldn't have made an early morning tee time playing with three guys that had never played before. Even if you thought it would be ok why didn't you teach them about pace of play and have them pick up to keep pace. His reply was the entitlement of some people these days is ridiculous. We payed our money. If you have a problem get the first tee time of the day next time.