As a weekend golfer, why do I want "to grow the game"?

[bladehunter]

On 12/9/2023 at 9:49 PM, st1800e said:

That settles it! 

At some point you were a non golfer. Now you are, and apparently enjoy it.  So you want to limit others from finding the game so they can’t enjoy it like you do? Because it doesn’t help YOU? 
 

That’s the natural order of things. The older generation sure did it to mine ( I’m 44). I didn’t start to play until I was 34. And my low index is +2.3.   I might have been able to play if I had played as a kid 🤣.  But I grew up knowing ( not thinking ) that golf was above my station.  
 

so hear me out.  My age demographic seems to the ones who are victim to a lot  of this boomer hindsight math.  what  I mean is this. Equipment…. There was a time when you either hit a blade and a tiny driver , or you didn’t play. I can do that well.  A lot cannot. So I don’t get to see that reward. I have to adapt to the help the old generation made to further  its aging self. My advantage is reappropriated and spread around to the  peers I play against.  No way to explain it away . Thats just the facts of life.  
 

same thing is happening with access to the game. The oldsters are delegating that we welcome any and all.  And I’m in two minds with that.  One mind agrees. One mind wonders where the blank they were when I was coming up ?  They surely didn’t want me on course then.  The “ growing the game “ movement is what keeps me off the course now.  I can no longer walk on anytime I want during  the week and play 9. Since 2020 it’s way too crowded.  So I had a 10 year run.  😂.  It was fun.  But the oldsters are yet again deciding what I can and can’t do.  It’s quite an amazing age to be in the game and life in general.  They’re clinging on like a wet booger 🤨. 
 

 

I’ll leave it for you to decide how much of that is satire or is real. Won’t be wrong to guess either way.  

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, Itsjustagame said:

Population of the US has grown by 50 million people in the past 20 years. There are more people everwhere including golf courses.

But it’s just on the edge of the cliff that will see it lose 10 million plus a year until 2040.  We’re only having 3.6 mil babies a year …. It’s not going to be overpopulated for long , unless they import them.  

[Pepperturbo]

Though I love the game of golf, growing the game is NO longer my responsibility, nor is it the responsibility of my friends; we've done our financial stint contributing and promoting the game.  My generation, and those before mine, made concerted efforts to grow the game because we love the game.  What we got back from the game was personal satisfaction. 

 

But generations since have done little more than ask what benefits them.  They take and give nothing back and complain...seems to be a trend in subsequent generations...it's all about me, me, what do I get.  We're seeing that in many areas other than golf.  If you don't know what you're getting from the game, probably shouldn't play.

 

If subsequent generations persist in chasing what benefits them individually, as in greed, like we've seen with Rahm; lie, lie, and lie then do the opposite, golf as it was once known, driven by love, character and charity, will eventually die, as it should. 

 

Claiming real estate costs, the USGA and R&A are screwing with the golf ball and the world of golfers, claiming it's for the future of the game.  Yet, Real Estate costs are still soaring, as well as operational costs and minimal profits, essentially pricing the game out of existence.  Just look at Japan and elsewhere around the world.  In Japan, the average golfer never sees a golf course, just hits balls at the range.  Because the average golfer there loves golf, he promotes it, yet gets nothing back. 

 

On a related note, this past weekend my banker buddy and I were discussing pricing of different public clubs in SOCA.  He and I paid $250+ for two golfers each, to play on Sunday after 10:30am, at an average course.  How many average golfers can afford $100+ to play golf once a month, let alone 2–3 times a week like we do, paying for two.  When we're gone, who, out of love for the game, is picking up the slack?

Edited December 11, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[shankasaurus rex]

On 12/10/2023 at 10:01 AM, RainShadow said:

 

I agree, courses are crowded these days, but it was just 10-15 years ago that we were closing courses due to lack of financial viability and water resources, and less people playing. Part of the reason the one's we have are crowded.

 

 

Not sure it was even that long ago. Even just a year or two pre-COVID courses were closing all over. It was all over the news, and those that weren't were often being sold to the lowest bidder and neglected. Short memories.....
 

It's not hard to understand that Boomers are quickly dying off or becoming unable to play the game. Without injecting new blood, the valuable land gets sold and golf dies off, or it gets even harder and more expensive to play as courses dwindle.

 

But I don't think LIV (or the PGA) is doing much more than lip service to accomplish that goal. For that you have to look to YouTube and social media. In fact, I've played with several younger folks who don't watch pro golf at all, but they all sure as hell know who Garrett Clark is...

Bluntly, I'm glad to see the Boomers complaining. Offending their "I gots mine" mentality is usually a good sign that something is making its way to the younger generation! 😅

[st1800e]

15 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

growing the game is NO longer my responsibility,

So if I followed your lead, I shouldn't introduce the game to my five grandchildren?  Call my oldest grandson and tell him he can’t go tonight? 

[airjammer]

I’m in Middle Tennessee, we are in a weird predicament as far as I’m concerned. 
 

1. The public golf scene is not good in middle Tennessee as a whole as there wasn’t enough interest to build lots of golf courses in the past so now that the population is booming there isn’t enough courses to keep people spread out enough at peak times. 
 

2. There also aren’t any public “Historic Gems” so if the golfing population dwindles, I’m sure the owners will just sell the land for residential properties instead of returning to the pre-covid profits.  
 

3. A good majority of people that moved here came from higher cost of living areas and have driven up housing prices and private club dues across the area. So much so that some public golf courses are being turned into private. 
 

4. Land is too expensive to build a public golf course on so any new golf courses will surely be expensive private courses that will recoup their investment the 1st year of operation. 
 

So it would seem that in my area we need to just somehow maintain the current level of golfers. 

[Binson]

As with anything, there's an equilibrium. But, if it shrinks beyond a certain point, you'll see a downturn in the quality and availability of golf as well. 

[Ferguson]

Let's look at this in simple terms - 

 

Only (4) ways to grow revenue (no matter what the industry). 

1.  Increase the number of customers (golfers)

2. Customers (golfers) increase their transaction amount

3. Customers (people) buy (or play) more frequently 

4. Increase prices 

 

What is the primary metric for growth and has the metric changed

1. adding new people?

2. people playing more?

3. Cost per round? 

Or is it a combination of all? 

 

In 2000, the industry added new golfers and those golfers played more frequently. 

In 2022, the industry saw flatness in new golfers and golfers played less frequently. 

 

As a golfer and a member of a well-managed club that turns over very few members, I don't care if it grows or not. 

 

 

It begs the question - do existing (long-time) public golfers play more when the industry retracts and fewer new people play? 

I think not. 

[bladehunter]

20 minutes ago, st1800e said:

So if I followed your lead, I shouldn't introduce the game to my five grandchildren?  Call my oldest grandson and tell him he can’t go tonight? 

Again. Two minds.    My 15 year old son was quite good at golf until he stopped playing at 10 to focus on other sports. Natural shortgame. Can putt . Drove  it over  200 yards then.  Big kid.   But part of me is ok with it. Seems wrong to addict someone to something that won’t be available, or accessible in the future .  
 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by bladehunter

[Pepperturbo]

16 minutes ago, st1800e said:

So if I followed your lead, I shouldn't introduce the game to my five grandchildren?  Call my oldest grandson and tell him he can’t go tonight? 

Really... [shaking head] that's what you got from my post???  

 

If you taught your kids nothing, then maybe you shouldn't.  I introduced my son, and my granddaughter to the game because I know they were raised to be productive citizens, and not be about me, me. 

[golfortennis]

31 minutes ago, st1800e said:

So if I followed your lead, I shouldn't introduce the game to my five grandchildren?  Call my oldest grandson and tell him he can’t go tonight? 

 

That all depends on what executive positions you have held in your life.

[Ferguson]

31 minutes ago, st1800e said:

So if I followed your lead, I shouldn't introduce the game to my five grandchildren?  Call my oldest grandson and tell him he can’t go tonight? 

 

You need to read his post again.   

 

 

In the meantime, call your eldest grandson and tell him he can do whatever his heart desires.  

[Soloman1]

Golf has historically been about an 8% of population game, sometimes to 8.5%!

 

It also waxes and wanes with discretionary income. Boomers have more time and money than the next couple of generation will have, in my opinion. Growing the game is about trying to maintain that 8% to keep courses from closing at about 150 per year as they did for years.

 

Golf is an expensive recreation in money and time to build the playground and buy the equipment to play. It’s solitary and learning how to hit that stationary ball takes time and money. You can hit a tennis ball against a wall and you only need one basketball for a pickup game of hoops.

 

You have to pay for buckets and buckets and buckets of balls to learn even a little.

 

And if that isn’t enough, the rules! And unforgiving players on the course who are trying to set personal records for time to play a round with no patience for a novice.

 

It has to be intimidating for new people in a culture with no patience.

 

If God had wanted everyone to play golf, he would have given them lots of money.

[imakaveli]

As a weekend golfer my only concern is to avoid water as much as possible.

[hunterdog]

6 hours ago, Ferguson said:

 

 

The hell with people that want to advance their careers, make better lives for themselves and increase their income potential. 

 

 

 

Good for them. But their “grow the game” has nothing to do for 99% who play the game, keep courses open, and purchase the products. At least most professional athletes (assuming we can call golfers athletes) don’t claim they are “growing the game” when they get a big contract, they acknowledge that they, in the singular sense, are getting paid a boatload of money.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

2 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

Golf has historically been about an 8% of population game, sometimes to 8.5%!

 

It also waxes and wanes with discretionary income. Boomers have more time and money than the next couple of generation will have, in my opinion. Growing the game is about trying to maintain that 8% to keep courses from closing at about 150 per year as they did for years.

 

Golf is an expensive recreation in money and time to build the playground and buy the equipment to play. It’s solitary and learning how to hit that stationary ball takes time and money. You can hit a tennis ball against a wall and you only need one basketball for a pickup game of hoops.

 

You have to pay for buckets and buckets and buckets of balls to learn even a little.

 

And if that isn’t enough, the rules! And unforgiving players on the course who are trying to set personal records for time to play a round with no patience for a novice.

 

It has to be intimidating for new people in a culture with no patience.

 

If God had wanted everyone to play golf, he would have given them lots of money.

 

[naval2006]

I play in a small club which is the only one in town and we're always searching for new golfers.  We invite friends, organize clinics and we have golf schools for adults and kids.  It's hard work but we're a bunch of golfers who have got a lot from golf and we always think of giving back, especially at club level.  We've made a lot of new golfers in the past three years, especially women.  We went from four women to 22 in a two year term.  They have even organized their own league.  We call this giving back to the game, perhaps that's part of "growing the game."

 

However, this is my reality: small city, small club, there's always room for more members.  Big cities is a completely different story.

 

I'm convinced that the backbone of golf is clubs and public courses.  Amateur and keen recreational golfers back up the big scheme: we all watch golf; the CEOs of sponsoring companies are amateur golfers with more means; most of us  have had a buddy or a relative we invited to play a round and they got hooked up and many over here support the kids program at their club. 

 

Pro players? They don't care about growing the game, they focus on growing their bank accout first and their personal record later.  I don't blame them, they have the talent to do that.   

[RainShadow]

23 hours ago, shankasaurus rex said:

Not sure it was even that long ago. Even just a year or two pre-COVID courses were closing all over. It was all over the news, and those that weren't were often being sold to the lowest bidder and neglected. Short memories.....
 

It's not hard to understand that Boomers are quickly dying off or becoming unable to play the game. Without injecting new blood, the valuable land gets sold and golf dies off, or it gets even harder and more expensive to play as courses dwindle.

 

But I don't think LIV (or the PGA) is doing much more than lip service to accomplish that goal. For that you have to look to YouTube and social media. In fact, I've played with several younger folks who don't watch pro golf at all, but they all sure as hell know who Garrett Clark is...

Bluntly, I'm glad to see the Boomers complaining. Offending their "I gots mine" mentality is usually a good sign that something is making its way to the younger generation! 😅

 

They're constantly whining.....😭😫

[Murphy76]

11 hours ago, naval2006 said:

I play in a small club which is the only one in town and we're always searching for new golfers.  We invite friends, organize clinics and we have golf schools for adults and kids.  It's hard work but we're a bunch of golfers who have got a lot from golf and we always think of giving back, especially at club level.  We've made a lot of new golfers in the past three years, especially women.  We went from four women to 22 in a two year term.  They have even organized their own league.  We call this giving back to the game, perhaps that's part of "growing the game."

 

However, this is my reality: small city, small club, there's always room for more members.  Big cities is a completely different story.

 

+1  

 

You and I are in the exact same situation.    

 

A previous poster complained about $100/$250 greens fees in SoCal.  Well, Duh.  Southern California says everything.  

Location, location, location......

 

The key to "growing the game" (a BS term) is to teach new golfers proper etiquette.  Nothing kills the game  more than people who haven't been taught about pace-of-play, how to treat the course, how to be considerate, etc etc. etc....

 

This isn't me being a cranky old man.  In order for any system to work well, certain rules need to be followed.  It's the same thing for all aspects of life.  If you want any business/school/government to run well, you have to follow certain applicable rules and customs.

 

Not teaching new golfers the rules and customs will kill the game in the long term, and make it crummy in the short term.

 

 

 

  

 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Murphy76

[PedronNiall]

Interesting how many here long for the pre-Tiger days when part of the reason courses were only moderately populated wasn't that people didn't know about the game or couldn't afford a used set of clubs but because many who had the time and a little bit of money weren't allowed on courses because they weren't the "right kind" of people. Don't forget that Tiger's audacity to play courses his talent took him to got him anonymous death threats and crass jokes from Tour members about fried chicken, sadly even into the 00s. It was a very different time indeed. I'm sure those kinds of attitudes weren't pervasive or anything, though. 

 

I'll no doubt admit the entitlement & general bearing of some people can be lacking these days as a lot of discipline & accountability has gone out the window. Many here including myself have mentioned not even asking if someone wants advice on the range or course when a simple tweak or two would save them years of pain to come because there's no telling how they'll react. That said, I don't know that to be any worse than people glad handing someone and being all smiles to someone's face while not wanting them anywhere near the rarefied fairways that they were privileged to play. 

 

These threads always bring out some... fun talking points about the different eras of golf. We certainly can't help but see the world as we do. C'est la vie. 

 

One thing is clear: bigger checks are the biggest concern of far too many vocal/unabashed pros right now. I'm not sure even the established events will retain their legacies and meaning if this pace keeps up. Golf is very popular among those who care a lot about influencers/celebs who play the game, and many of them couldn't care less about the pros if they aren't friends of said celebs. All it will take is a few negative experiences going viral and non-casual golf could find itself in a very precarious spot. Likely the TopGolfs & golfer bros/broettes of the world can weather whatever becomes of the golfing elite. 

 

[Pepperturbo]

On 12/11/2023 at 4:01 PM, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

 

Truth!

[TiScape]

On 12/11/2023 at 4:01 PM, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

 

This reminds me of my time volunteering at the US Open at The Los Angeles Country Club. (I believe I told this story here already. If so and anyone already read it, 1000 apologies). And yes BDP5, the members talked to a guy like me 😆 So they let all the big wig members work 18. As you all have figured out by now I’m a super fun, witty and personable guy. So after my duty on hole 1 I wandered over to 18 tee and started chatting up the member volunteers. Next thing I know I’m working the hole, doing the paddles and chatting up the trophy wives of the members. It was a legit really good time. So anyway, I’m talking with a member volunteer (he actually looked a lot like Judge Smails but taller) and we’re discussing LIV. I mentioned that it was reported Tiger turned down $700MM. He looks at me totally straight faced and says “well that’s a lot of money to a guy like you”. In my head I’m like, oh wow! 😂 

Edited December 13, 2023 by TiScape

[BlackDiamondPar5]

1 hour ago, TiScape said:

This reminds me of my time volunteering at the US Open at The Los Angeles Country Club. (I believe I told this story here already. If so and anyone already read it, 1000 apologies). And yes BDP5, the members talked to a guy like me 😆 So they let all the big wig members work 18. As you all have figured out by now I’m a super fun, witty and personable guy. So after my duty on hole 1 I wandered over to 18 tee and started chatting up the member volunteers. Next thing I know I’m working the hole, doing the paddles and chatting up the trophy wives of the members. It was a legit really good time. So anyway, I’m talking with a member volunteer (he actually looked a lot like Judge Smails but taller) and we’re discussing LIV. I mentioned that it was reported Tiger turned down $700MM. He looks at me totally straight faced and says “well that’s a lot of money to a guy like you”. In my head I’m like, oh wow! 😂 

Yup I remember that story. As I recall the second part of your conversation with the guy went like this 😂

[TiScape]

3 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Yup I remember that story. As I recall the second part of your conversation with the guy went like this 😂

That was actually with a different guy. The hole captain. Retired banker. He musta been at least 85 years old and I’m betting not quite as sharp as he once was 😉 

Edited December 13, 2023 by TiScape

[aenemated]

2 hours ago, TiScape said:

He looks at me totally straight faced and says “well that’s a lot of money to a guy like you”

 

[TiScape]

Just now, aenemated said:

 

That GIF doesn’t really capture it aen. It wasn’t cocky or showy at all. It was just an old uber wealthy (not rich) gentleman that was being 💯 genuine considering the billion dollar bubble he lives in. 

[Barfolomew]

On 12/9/2023 at 6:57 PM, Chunkitgood said:

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, “Golf was sweet before Woods.”  A lot of people playing now have no idea how sweet.  Strolling around the course without some guys breathing around your nice, yet finishing faster.  Getting a beer and sandwich at the turn.  Still finishing faster.  Far fewer duffers on the course, and proportionally more people who could play.  Everybody polite and considerate of others…well,  mostly.  Making a 10 foot putt did not elicit screams of delight and celebration dances.

 

Remember when players in carts wouldn't just drive by as you're playing a shot and would wait for you to hit first lol....

[84425]

I personally don't have as much of a problem with the "growing the game" but more with the things people try to justify because they are part of "growing the game".

 

Take your kids to the course! Introduce your colleagues to golf! Tell all your friends how great this game is! Hand out 2nd hand 6-irons to the kids in the neighborhood! Hand a drunk bum your bag tell him he can practice with your clubs if he caddies for you on the weekend first!

 

But stop saying that the game needs to be made easier to grown the game, or that everyone should be allowed to play wearing flipflops because that's the only way to grow the game, or that any limitation on equipment will have a negative effect on "growing the game" (as if anyone that is currently not playing golf would care that once they start and by the time they get a ball airborne they will not be able to hit it as far as they would have had they started 2 or 3 years earlier before the ball rules changed (when golf was the last thing on their mind)).

[bladehunter]

19 hours ago, TiScape said:

This reminds me of my time volunteering at the US Open at The Los Angeles Country Club. (I believe I told this story here already. If so and anyone already read it, 1000 apologies). And yes BDP5, the members talked to a guy like me 😆 So they let all the big wig members work 18. As you all have figured out by now I’m a super fun, witty and personable guy. So after my duty on hole 1 I wandered over to 18 tee and started chatting up the member volunteers. Next thing I know I’m working the hole, doing the paddles and chatting up the trophy wives of the members. It was a legit really good time. So anyway, I’m talking with a member volunteer (he actually looked a lot like Judge Smails but taller) and we’re discussing LIV. I mentioned that it was reported Tiger turned down $700MM. He looks at me totally straight faced and says “well that’s a lot of money to a guy like you”. In my head I’m like, oh wow! 😂 

🤣.  Once upon a time I had a customer make a comment similar to that - right to my face.  Well. This elephant never forgets.  Year or so later he has an engine fire on a car he had bought.  So he ships it to me. I’m writing up the estimate and thinking.  “ this ain’t cheap , everything’s either ruined or soiled  beyond visual acceptance “ and just then it hit me “ this guy ain’t hurting “.  So I wrote it up just as it was.  My normal margin intact.  Etc. This ain’t my brother in law 😂.  I deliver the estimate with a clear disclaimer “ not including any unforeseen issues we find after work begins “.   Within 30 min I get a call.  And he’s all like “ man this is steep blah blah blah “. I let him go on and I then said “ shouldn’t be a problem for a guy like you , won’t even empty your front pocket money “ 😜.  Silence.   Then finally. A laugh.  And he says -“ don’t cut any corners “.   “ wouldn’t dream of it. “.       Guys like that usually respect if you give it back.  If they don’t , I’m glad to cull those guys quickly.  I used to do the “ yesir “ shuck and jive dance when I was young in business and try to appease.  Didn’t take too long to learn that was the wrong move.  Useless story. But yours made me think of it . 

[Pnwpingi210]

If growing the game includes build more courses ( sheer volume) and accessibility (lowered cost to play, ability find tee times 24-48 hrs instead of 7 days out, increase pace of play) then heck yes I’m all for it.