Does anyone else think Taylormade drivers have gone downhill in terms of sound/feel?

[Grizzly92]

2017 M2 = loved it

M5 = loved it even more

 

Since then I've tried just about every head in the SIM/SIM2 and Stealth/Stealth2 lines and I just can't get used to the sound/feel. I've been trying to upgrade from the M5 for years but I just keep going back to it.

 

To me, the M5 feels way better off the face than any of the newer heads, and it's not even close. It just feels softer, like I'm hitting a tennis ball or something.

 

Does anyone else agree or am I crazy? Will Taylormade ever make another head that sounds/feels closer to the M5?

[radiman]

Very subjective opinion here haha.  I liked the Sim feel a lot.  

 

Have you hit the Qi10?  In my opinion, it feels a lot less dull than the Stealth.  Still soft and muted.  But not dead feeling in any way.  

[jholz]

I'm left questioning whether they ever had any of it to begin with. But, just one idiot's opinion. 

 

 

[Pnwpingi210]

No

[jibbs1082]

Sort of. Been trying for 3 cycles to get out of my M4. Stealths were a total bust for me. 

 

Audio on the Qi10LS is far better than the Stealths... even has me liking it a little more than the M4 now. M4 sounds pingy compared to "solid" if that makes sense. Still hit the M4 more consistent on big mis-hits. I do like the feel off the center of the face on the Qi10LS.

 

Editing to say: I think the Steath was generally trash and the Tiger effect bought them some sales and time with those 2 heads.

 

 

 

Edited March 12 by jibbs1082

[lefthack]

I enjoyed pretty much all the M's, really liked the Sim2, just got the Stealth 2, but have low expectations. 

 

An M5 in near new condition is like $150. If it works, rock it. 

[Grizzly92]

47 minutes ago, radiman said:

Very subjective opinion here haha.  I liked the Sim feel a lot.  

 

Have you hit the Qi10?  In my opinion, it feels a lot less dull than the Stealth.  Still soft and muted.  But not dead feeling in any way.  

Definitely subjective lol I guess it's just hard for me to imagine preferring the feel of the new heads. I haven't hit the Qi10 yet but I've heard good things. Trying to not get my hopes up.

[Valtiel]

Trying to judge this stuff based on OTR clubs is always a bit of a crapshoot, because you never know how much glue is in the head. Variations in finished headweight means some heads will have some glue in them, some will have more, and some might have none. All of these heads will sound and feel different. The head can sound/feel softer and more muted or like a tin can depending on this. 

[Grizzly92]

41 minutes ago, jibbs1082 said:

Sort of. Been trying for 3 cycles to get out of my M4. Stealths were a total bust for me. 

 

Audio on the Qi10LS is far better than the Stealths... even has me liking it a little more than the M4 now. M4 sounds pingy compared to "solid" if that makes sense. Still hit the M4 more consistent on big mis-hits. I do like the feel off the center of the face on the Qi10LS.

 

Editing to say: I think the Steath was generally trash and the Tiger effect bought them some sales and time with those 2 heads.

 

 

 

Agree with you on the Stealth - SIM2 Max is probably my second favorite to the M5.

[Grizzly92]

Just now, Valtiel said:

Trying to judge this stuff based on OTR clubs is always a bit of a crapshoot, because you never know how much glue is in the head. Variations in finished headweight means some heads will have some glue in them, some will have more, and some might have none. All of these heads will sound and feel different. The head can sound/feel softer and more muted or like a tin can depending on this. 

Very interesting... I've heard that hotmelt can change the way a head sounds/feels, so assuming its the same kind of thing?

 

I might have a buddy add some hotmelt to my SIM2 head just for fun. I'm really curious to know how much of a difference it makes.

[jholz]

16 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Trying to judge this stuff based on OTR clubs is always a bit of a crapshoot, because you never know how much glue is in the head. Variations in finished headweight means some heads will have some glue in them, some will have more, and some might have none. All of these heads will sound and feel different. The head can sound/feel softer and more muted or like a tin can depending on this. 

 

Is this merely a TM thing, or are you saying this is across the market?

 

I mean, I've always suspected and my approach to the game shows it. 

 

But, really???? What is the actual process you are referencing here?

 

Would love to know more. 

[halfsumo]

I actually think they get better sound/feel every iteration 🤷‍♂️

 

It's very personal and subjective.  I actually think the M5 has been my least favorite of theirs in the recent past 🤷‍♂️

[Valtiel]

27 minutes ago, Grizzly92 said:

Very interesting... I've heard that hotmelt can change the way a head sounds/feels, so assuming its the same kind of thing?

 

I might have a buddy add some hotmelt to my SIM2 head just for fun. I'm really curious to know how much of a difference it makes.

Correct, yes. Hotmelt is just a type of glue, and any glue added to a head is going to fall into a similar category and have a similar impact, which is the dampening of vibration. How big of an impact it has on sound/feel depends on the head, how much glue is added, and where. 
 

20 minutes ago, jholz said:

 

Is this merely a TM thing, or are you saying this is across the market?

 

I mean, I've always suspected and my approach to the game shows it. 

 

But, really???? What is the actual process you are referencing here?

 

Would love to know more. 

Across the market, although I imagine it varies the most on multi-material heads that likely stand to have the widest variations in finished weight. 

The golf spy site cut open a bunch of heads back in 2016 showing various amounts of glue/hotmelt, from none to quite a lot. Finished heads are always going to be targeting a certain raw weight (say 194g) with manufacturing likely targeting a window at or slightly below that number with glue added as needed to reach it. This is also why "tour issue" heads are often lighter, that step of adding any glue is skipped. You'll see the same thing in certain hollow driving irons as well, notably Srixon utilities which are VERY light without any glue added. 

[byoshio82]

SIM2 with hotmelt in it was one of my favorites. M3 wasn’t too far behind either once I got the right weights in it. 

[mizuno player]

Sound or feel we're not my issues with the stealth Plus. I can't put my finger on it other than. It just didn't work for me. I played the 2016 M2 for a long time. Just wanted a switch. Tried the stealth Plus but ended up in TSR3. Much happier. 

[AmateurAmateur]

I’ve found Taylormade drivers have gone downhill quite substantially, but the wedges and irons have gone from the worst ones to only the 3rd worst. 

[Grizzly92]

 

51 minutes ago, halfsumo said:

I actually think they get better sound/feel every iteration 🤷‍♂️

 

It's very personal and subjective.  I actually think the M5 has been my least favorite of theirs in the recent past 🤷‍♂️

I wish I felt the same! I could just buy my new head every couple of years and move on with my life lol.

[jholz]

How many corporate owners has TM had in the past ten years?

 

Seems like they are doing a "wonderful" job.

 

How that s*** show remains top o the heap is utterly beyond me.

 

These folks should be ashamed.

[jholz]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

Correct, yes. Hotmelt is just a type of glue, and any glue added to a head is going to fall into a similar category and have a similar impact, which is the dampening of vibration. How big of an impact it has on sound/feel depends on the head, how much glue is added, and where. 
 

Across the market, although I imagine it varies the most on multi-material heads that likely stand to have the widest variations in finished weight. 

The golf spy site cut open a bunch of heads back in 2016 showing various amounts of glue/hotmelt, from none to quite a lot. Finished heads are always going to be targeting a certain raw weight (say 194g) with manufacturing likely targeting a window at or slightly below that number with glue added as needed to reach it. This is also why "tour issue" heads are often lighter, that step of adding any glue is skipped. You'll see the same thing in certain hollow driving irons as well, notably Srixon utilities which are VERY light without any glue added. 

 

This seems like crazy talk to me. But, I'm super ghetto. Maybe I don't understand.

 

I mean, I get manufacturing tolerances. Nothing comes out perfect. This is why tolerances exist.

 

But, I always figured those mfg tolerances were part of the bargain. I mean, unless you are someone special, you take what the OEM gives you. The head might be 204 or 198, who will notice the difference?

 

Unless you have the tools to measure and have a lot of time on your hands, most folks will be clueless.

 

From this, I just have incrdulity.

 

I have a hard time picturing the production line in Vietnam where workers are truly interested in the overall weight of a driver head...and adding hotmelt to get things in the tolerance window.

 

Those folks on the production line just want to go the hell home. Whatever impulses they had concerning quality control have already been beaten out of them about six months ago. 

 

This just don't add up to "real world" occurrences IMHO.

 

But, I'm always happy to be proven wrong.

 

 

[ahenderX]

I have a 2016 M2. I put a piece of black duct tape on the bottom to dampen the sound some. Have not tried any newer versions. I’m happy with it.

[Chunkitgood]

So, they give you more distance, straighter ball flight and you’re gonna complain about the way it sounds?  The sound is what’s so important it requires comment?  The sound interferes somehow with your game?  The sound it makes more difficult to swing?  The sound?

 

Sorry, my self-censor and quality control circuitry were both off line for a moment.  Glad they came back before I said something I shouldn’t have.

 

My actual opinion is that any hollow golf club is, if not actually an abomination, a travesty, and it was grave error to allow them to be used in the first place.  So the awful sound they make is not what bothers me, usually.

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, jholz said:

 

This seems like crazy talk to me. But, I'm super ghetto. Maybe I don't understand.

 

I mean, I get manufacturing tolerances. Nothing comes out perfect. This is why tolerances exist.

 

But, I always figured those mfg tolerances were part of the bargain. I mean, unless you are someone special, you take what the OEM gives you. The head might be 204 or 198, who will notice the difference?

 

Unless you have the tools to measure and have a lot of time on your hands, most folks will be clueless.

 

From this, I just have incrdulity.

 

I have a hard time picturing the production line in Vietnam where workers are truly interested in the overall weight of a driver head...and adding hotmelt to get things in the tolerance window.

 

Those folks on the production line just want to go the hell home. Whatever impulses they had concerning quality control have already been beaten out of them about six months ago. 

 

This just don't add up to "real world" occurrences IMHO.

 

But, I'm always happy to be proven wrong.

 

 

Remember that this “rattle stop” glue serves a second purpose right there in the name. If a squirt of glue also tangibly reduces the number of warranty claims due to a piece of epoxy or a metal shaving rattling around in the head then it’s worth doing. 
 

At stock playing lengths the difference between a 198g and 204g head is almost 4 swingweight points, that is well outside the realm of what you see off the shelf. 
 

 

[Avidswampthing66]

Really enjoyed M5 and liked Sim.   Did not enjoy Sim2 through Stealth 2.  Have not hit Qi10

 

But, I also did not like TS2 or Epic Speed.  Feel is subjective, but I agree with OP for the most part.  Have not been impressed as of late.

[jholz]

20 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Remember that this “rattle stop” glue serves a second purpose right there in the name. If a squirt of glue also tangibly reduces the number of warranty claims due to a piece of epoxy or a metal shaving rattling around in the head then it’s worth doing. 
 

At stock playing lengths the difference between a 198g and 204g head is almost 4 swingweight points, that is well outside the realm of what you see off the shelf. 
 

 

 

Mind blown - slightly.

 

I recognize the complexity of the interior of the modern driver head. The fact that any human being - or collection of human beings - can produce something so complex and out of the materials they are using...

 

It is, indeed, utterly astounding. 

 

We've got ten centuries of European warfare to thank for that industrial production know-how. That don't come cheap.

 

But seriously, as a former country club busboy, I'm still left thinking about those production workers in whatever far flung country they might be located.

 

After a couple at years working for country club clowns, I was pretty much willing to poison every member.

 

Having that experience...I'm trying to picture the regime of abuse it takes get the outcome you've described. I mean, hot melting driver heads on the production line to meet tolerances? 

 

Welcome to Boeing. 

 

I have no answers.

Edited March 13 by jholz

[RobS]

Quite a subjective topic.  I really liked the feel of the 2016 M2.  The 17 felt more harsh to me.  I liked the M5 but liked the feel of the M6 much more.  I also the feel of the Stealth and the Qi10, standard versions more than the Plus and Tour.  For my preference, I always thought the heads without the movable weights felt and sounded better.  I like a solid but soft feel off the driver face.

[boggyman]

No, you’re not crazy. M5 Tour and m6 were my favorites for a long time. I tried the Sim Max, Sim2 Max, Stealth , Stealth2, liked none of them prior to the Stealth. Our son is a devoted TM guy and hit his Qi10 MAX in the simulator a few times and he ordered a new Sim2 Max today. 

Edited March 15 by boggyman

[gators78]

Won my first tournament with a 320 Tour, then played some really good golf with the 510TP. Been striking out with TM ever since…

[ago33]

I don’t love the feel of the stealth 2. It’s hard to tell where I am striking it on the face. However the ball speeds across the face are way up so I don’t really care.

[phizzy30]

4 hours ago, Grizzly92 said:

Very interesting... I've heard that hotmelt can change the way a head sounds/feels, so assuming its the same kind of thing?

 

I might have a buddy add some hotmelt to my SIM2 head just for fun. I'm really curious to know how much of a difference it makes.

I've had all my driver/fairways hot melted for a long time and it definitely sounds more muted. 

[phizzy30]

M4/M5 was solid, SIM/SIM 2 was awesome, Stealth/Stealth 2 were meh.  Qi10 line is miles better in feel and sound. 

Edited March 13 by phizzy30