Can a 4-handicap man beat an LPGA pro?

[SurfDuffer]

The problem with this thread is everyone keeps moving the goalposts.

 

The topic is:

 

"Can a 4-handicap man beat an LPGA pro?"

 

 

The answer is absolutely "YES THEY CAN". From there it is only a matter of how often or how long the odds would be. Everyone wants to spin the topic into something its not so they can keep arguing. The topic isn't a handicap math equation. The topic isn't claiming a 4 handicap is a better golfer. The topic at hand is "Can a 4-handicap man beat a LPGA pro?". The answer is yes, a 4-handicap man is capable of posting a score on his good day that would be better than an LPGA player having a bad day (or even Tiger having a bad day lately). The odds may range from 1 in 25 rounds to 1 in 500 rounds but regardless the answer to the question at the heart of this thread remains that YES a 4 handicap man can beat an LPGA player. It is certainly within the realm of possibility even if the odds are unlikely.

[jt2gt]

The problem with this thread is everyone keeps moving the goalposts.

 

The topic is:

 

"Can a 4-handicap man beat an LPGA pro?"

 

 

The answer is absolutely "YES THEY CAN". From there it is only a matter of how often or how long the odds would be. Everyone wants to spin the topic into something its not so they can keep arguing. The topic isn't a handicap math equation. The topic isn't claiming a 4 handicap is a better golfer. The topic at hand is "Can a 4-handicap man beat a LPGA pro?". The answer is yes, a 4-handicap man is capable of posting a score on his good day that would be better than an LPGA player having a bad day (or even Tiger having a bad day lately). The odds may range from 1 in 25 rounds to 1 in 500 rounds but regardless the answer to the question at the heart of this thread remains that YES a 4 handicap man can beat an LPGA player. It is certainly within the realm of possibility even if the odds are unlikely.

 

Actually...to be more precise, the thread is can a 4-handicap man beat a bottom level non-exempt status LPGAer? The original post says a bottom level LPGAer non-exempt player would destroy a 4-handicap man so bad he would not get back up. While this thread has shed a bunch of light on how great the top players are (and folks keep bringing that up as they change the discussion from its original post), I am not so sure about the original proposition. Looking at the scores from the bahamas...yeah, the top ladies are amazing -26 right now. But the bottom player missing the cut shot 80 77.

[Shilgy]

The problem with this thread is everyone keeps moving the goalposts.

 

The topic is:

 

"Can a 4-handicap man beat an LPGA pro?"

 

 

The answer is absolutely "YES THEY CAN". From there it is only a matter of how often or how long the odds would be. Everyone wants to spin the topic into something its not so they can keep arguing. The topic isn't a handicap math equation. The topic isn't claiming a 4 handicap is a better golfer. The topic at hand is "Can a 4-handicap man beat a LPGA pro?". The answer is yes, a 4-handicap man is capable of posting a score on his good day that would be better than an LPGA player having a bad day (or even Tiger having a bad day lately). The odds may range from 1 in 25 rounds to 1 in 500 rounds but regardless the answer to the question at the heart of this thread remains that YES a 4 handicap man can beat an LPGA player. It is certainly within the realm of possibility even if the odds are unlikely.

 

Actually...to be more precise, the thread is can a 4-handicap man beat a bottom level non-exempt status LPGAer? The original post says a bottom level LPGAer non-exempt player would destroy a 4-handicap man so bad he would not get back up. While this thread has shed a bunch of light on how great the top players are (and folks keep bringing that up as they change the discussion from its original post), I am not so sure about the original proposition. Looking at the scores from the bahamas...yeah, the top ladies are amazing -26 right now. But the bottom player missing the cut shot 80 77.

Number 152(number the op mentioned) on tour last year averaged 74.08 which is better than the 4 would average on his good counting scores. Can a 4 best her on his absolute best day if she has an awful day? Sure. Maybe. Have him playing for his livelihood in tournament conditions and beat that? Highly doubtful. Look at the 4 cappers at you local club events. How many play to their cap playing it down and in?

[deadsolid...shank]

The problem with this thread is everyone keeps moving the goalposts.

 

The topic is:

 

"Can a 4-handicap man beat an LPGA pro?"

 

 

The answer is absolutely "YES THEY CAN". From there it is only a matter of how often or how long the odds would be. Everyone wants to spin the topic into something its not so they can keep arguing. The topic isn't a handicap math equation. The topic isn't claiming a 4 handicap is a better golfer. The topic at hand is "Can a 4-handicap man beat a LPGA pro?". The answer is yes, a 4-handicap man is capable of posting a score on his good day that would be better than an LPGA player having a bad day (or even Tiger having a bad day lately). The odds may range from 1 in 25 rounds to 1 in 500 rounds but regardless the answer to the question at the heart of this thread remains that YES a 4 handicap man can beat an LPGA player. It is certainly within the realm of possibility even if the odds are unlikely.

 

Actually...to be more precise, the thread is can a 4-handicap man beat a bottom level non-exempt status LPGAer? The original post says a bottom level LPGAer non-exempt player would destroy a 4-handicap man so bad he would not get back up. While this thread has shed a bunch of light on how great the top players are (and folks keep bringing that up as they change the discussion from its original post), I am not so sure about the original proposition. Looking at the scores from the bahamas...yeah, the top ladies are amazing -26 right now. But the bottom player missing the cut shot 80 77.

Number 152(number the op mentioned) on tour last year averaged 74.08 which is better than the 4 would average on his good counting scores. Can a 4 best her on his absolute best day if she has an awful day? Sure. Maybe. Have him playing for his livelihood in tournament conditions and beat that? Highly doubtful. Look at the 4 cappers at you local club events. How many play to their cap playing it down and in?

 

Why do you constantly add conditions to it. Four day cumulative score, tournament conditions, playing for his livliehod, etc.

 

None of that was set as a criteria in the OP.

[deadsolid...shank]

Both playing from their respective tee the 4 handicapper will lose. A 4 handicapper on average is shooting 76 on his best day, on most days he is shooting 77 - 79. An LPGA player is shooting slightly under par on average, lets say 71.2.

 

 

A scratch player can shoot in the 60's, it won't happen often, but it can happen. My low round on a 6900 yard course is 67, when I was a 2 HC. Never close to it again, but did have a smattering of 70s and 71s.

 

Contradictory statements Guia. Your low score as a 2 was five under (assuming a par 72) but you say the 4 is shooting 72 on his best day. On his best day why can't he be five under also.

[Guia]

I had an exceptional good day, I suppose the a 4 HC could break 70. But, we are talking about a head to head competition with a Pro-golfer, circumstances are much different. I was playing with people I knew in a tournament, I had very little pressure.

[deadsolid...shank]

I had an exceptional good day, I suppose the a 4 HC could break 70. But, we are talking about a head to head competition with a Pro-golfer, circumstances are much different. I was playing with people I knew in a tournament, I had very little pressure.

 

I wonder if there would be any extra pressure on the pro too? Not wanting to lose to an amateur. Obviously they are better equipped to deal with the pressure, but I wonder if it could have an effect.

[Shilgy]

The problem with this thread is everyone keeps moving the goalposts.

 

The topic is:

 

"Can a 4-handicap man beat an LPGA pro?"

 

 

The answer is absolutely "YES THEY CAN". From there it is only a matter of how often or how long the odds would be. Everyone wants to spin the topic into something its not so they can keep arguing. The topic isn't a handicap math equation. The topic isn't claiming a 4 handicap is a better golfer. The topic at hand is "Can a 4-handicap man beat a LPGA pro?". The answer is yes, a 4-handicap man is capable of posting a score on his good day that would be better than an LPGA player having a bad day (or even Tiger having a bad day lately). The odds may range from 1 in 25 rounds to 1 in 500 rounds but regardless the answer to the question at the heart of this thread remains that YES a 4 handicap man can beat an LPGA player. It is certainly within the realm of possibility even if the odds are unlikely.

 

Actually...to be more precise, the thread is can a 4-handicap man beat a bottom level non-exempt status LPGAer? The original post says a bottom level LPGAer non-exempt player would destroy a 4-handicap man so bad he would not get back up. While this thread has shed a bunch of light on how great the top players are (and folks keep bringing that up as they change the discussion from its original post), I am not so sure about the original proposition. Looking at the scores from the bahamas...yeah, the top ladies are amazing -26 right now. But the bottom player missing the cut shot 80 77.

Number 152(number the op mentioned) on tour last year averaged 74.08 which is better than the 4 would average on his good counting scores. Can a 4 best her on his absolute best day if she has an awful day? Sure. Maybe. Have him playing for his livelihood in tournament conditions and beat that? Highly doubtful. Look at the 4 cappers at you local club events. How many play to their cap playing it down and in?

 

Why do you constantly add conditions to it. Four day cumulative score, tournament conditions, playing for his livliehod, etc.

 

None of that was set as a criteria in the OP.

I guess I should edit to stop that post at "sure. maybe."? How about this? According to the Pope of Slope chart on tournament round odds the 4 is about 150:1 to shoot what pro averages. So yes, as I've stated a few times it would happen occasionally.

PS no, I do not feel the pro would feel any "pressure" that would affect her game.

[SurfDuffer]

Shilgy seems to think the topic is "Could a 4 handicap man win an LPGA tournament."

[BMC]

Shilgy seems to think the topic is "Could a 4 handicap man win an LPGA tournament."

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[DavePelz4]

This thread has been going for 8 years.

 

Reminds me of the debate I continue to lose regarding Mrs. Pelz's mother and her visits.

[Guia]

Mother always win.

[Shilgy]

Shilgy seems to think the topic is "Could a 4 handicap man win an LPGA tournament."

Since you are the arbiter of what the thread is about. What conditions would most favor the 4? 7000 yards? Wind? Tough pins? Easy? I look forward to the ruling.

[ebk]

Last year, one of the magazines interviewed an LPGA player - I forget which one, but she was not a top 5, maybe not even a top 10 in the rankings. they were asking her about pro ams and one question is what makes her laugh out there. She said what makes her laugh is the 5 handicap that thinks he can beat her.

[JustTheTips]

 

I get all that - even if I've never seen a 6100 yard course with a 142 slope. And SCORE is what we're discussing, NOT handicap. Handicap is just a reference point to start the discussion. The variables then are mostly about distance difference and ability under pressure.

 

Nevertheless, the guy shooting 81 has from 3-5 scores in his 'cap that are below his 4, maybe as many as 4 shots below. I, for instance currently have 3 scores 4 below my 'cap.

 

As for the +2 Pro I'm pretty sure they're not ALL +2 or better. It's been pointed out that any number of them are probably "only" scratch, although they may not be on Tour very long at those numbers.

 

So the "scratch" (sorry, I'll use this instead on your +2) has (approximately) 3/4, 15 out of 20 of their rounds ABOVE par. Move 'em back 800 yards and, as I mentioned, in MY experience (and not just myself) that player ain't playing to the same handicap not matter how often everybody says a 4 is a 4 from ANY distance.

 

So your 4.5 shot difference is (presumably) an average. Narrow it quickly to 2.5 (scratch vs. 4) and consider the number of times the 4 "beats his handicap" (Damn, I hate that expression (LOL)) and the number of times the scratch player DOESN'T reach their handicap and you've got a rough idea of how often the 4 will shoot a LOWER score.

 

I agree it's not often. Then again, the premise of the thread is "CAN a 4 beat an LPGA Pro). So the answer, IMO, is "Yes",,,,,, the 4 CAN.

 

The course is Muirfield Village from an online score card. And yea that is crazy hard. Score and handicaps are linked. We are not talking talking a person shooting 72 form 7200 yards and a person shooting 72 from 6200 yards and placing them at 6400 yards and seeing who wins (ie. the longer player will win most of the time). We are talking a 4 handicap (doesn't matter what distance) and placing them up against a LPGA pro on the same tees and see what happens. The 4 will win some percentage of the time but it isn't a high percentage as the LPGA player is somewhere in the 0->+4 range. A 4 also has a chance to beat Tiger woods. Seriously a 4 had a shot to shoot a 84 even on a tour course. But that is like the 1/10000 event.

[willgolf4food]

This is hilarious. I played a round with a couple of girls I estimated to be 19 or 20, whom I didn't know, on my home course, along with our men's champion, who's a scratch. We played from the men's tees. The girls played from the tips, and they were out driving our men's champion by 20 yards. Turns out they were both on the UGA golf team.

 

They weren't LPGA pros, and they both smoked the best player in our club on his home course without breaking a sweat.

 

A 4 capper? Hahaha! Any LPGA pro could give him 4 a side and still crush him.

[deadsolid...shank]

This is hilarious. I played a round with a couple of girls I estimated to be 19 or 20, whom I didn't know, on my home course, along with our men's champion, who's a scratch. We played from the men's tees. The girls played from the tips, and they were out driving our men's champion by 20 yards. Turns out they were both on the UGA golf team.

 

They weren't LPGA pros, and they both smoked the best player in our club on his home course without breaking a sweat.

 

A 4 capper? Hahaha! Any LPGA pro could give him 4 a side and still crush him.

 

To be blunt and honest, your club champion must be a very short hitter.

[JustTheTips]

This is hilarious. I played a round with a couple of girls I estimated to be 19 or 20, whom I didn't know, on my home course, along with our men's champion, who's a scratch. We played from the men's tees. The girls played from the tips, and they were out driving our men's champion by 20 yards. Turns out they were both on the UGA golf team.

 

They weren't LPGA pros, and they both smoked the best player in our club on his home course without breaking a sweat.

 

A 4 capper? Hahaha! Any LPGA pro could give him 4 a side and still crush him.

 

So your scratch player is 8 shots worse than a couple of girls that probably will not sniff the LPGA?

 

It is funny how delusional both sides get. Most LPGA players are not some +8 handicap (i.e. about you would need to crush a scratch player giving up 8 strokes) or some player that would get destroyed by some 4 handicap guy. They are in the middle of range of +1->+4 type golfer. The person that is a very, very good at golf, but if you show up at the right club, there are a dozen guys in that range.

[wobgon]

This is hilarious. I played a round with a couple of girls I estimated to be 19 or 20, whom I didn't know, on my home course, along with our men's champion, who's a scratch. We played from the men's tees. The girls played from the tips, and they were out driving our men's champion by 20 yards. Turns out they were both on the UGA golf team.

 

They weren't LPGA pros, and they both smoked the best player in our club on his home course without breaking a sweat.

 

A 4 capper? Hahaha! Any LPGA pro could give him 4 a side and still crush him.

And the club champ at my club would drive it past them by 20 yards....What does this mean. Nothing.....And yes, I have played with several top big ten college women and 5 or six LPGA players, and yes, they are very good, but people need to settle down a little.

[SurfDuffer]

This is hilarious. I played a round with a couple of girls I estimated to be 19 or 20, whom I didn't know, on my home course, along with our men's champion, who's a scratch. We played from the men's tees. The girls played from the tips, and they were out driving our men's champion by 20 yards. Turns out they were both on the UGA golf team.

 

They weren't LPGA pros, and they both smoked the best player in our club on his home course without breaking a sweat.

 

A 4 capper? Hahaha! Any LPGA pro could give him 4 a side and still crush him.

 

To be blunt and honest, your club champion must be a very short hitter.

and suck.

[deadsolid...shank]

This is hilarious. I played a round with a couple of girls I estimated to be 19 or 20, whom I didn't know, on my home course, along with our men's champion, who's a scratch. We played from the men's tees. The girls played from the tips, and they were out driving our men's champion by 20 yards. Turns out they were both on the UGA golf team.

 

They weren't LPGA pros, and they both smoked the best player in our club on his home course without breaking a sweat.

 

A 4 capper? Hahaha! Any LPGA pro could give him 4 a side and still crush him.

 

To be blunt and honest, your club champion must be a very short hitter.

and suck.

 

I really didn't want to insult him or his club.

[Shilgy]

This is hilarious. I played a round with a couple of girls I estimated to be 19 or 20, whom I didn't know, on my home course, along with our men's champion, who's a scratch. We played from the men's tees. The girls played from the tips, and they were out driving our men's champion by 20 yards. Turns out they were both on the UGA golf team.

 

They weren't LPGA pros, and they both smoked the best player in our club on his home course without breaking a sweat.

 

A 4 capper? Hahaha! Any LPGA pro could give him 4 a side and still crush him.

 

To be blunt and honest, your club champion must be a very short hitter.

and suck.

 

I really didn't want to insult him or his club.

By the way guys he was saying, I believe in his last sentence, the lady could give the 4 cap 4 a side. Not his club champ. His club champ was scratch. And short.

[Guia]

willgolf4food: Sounds like a made up story. Very few female college players could beat a scratch player, especially on his own course. I have played with a number of the female players from UNM and while very good I doubt that any could SMOKE our club champion. None could match any of our top three players for distance off the tee. Your club champion must really suck for a scratch player, especially when he is on a shorter tee.

[willgolf4food]

willgolf4food: Sounds like a made up story. Very few female college players could beat a scratch player, especially on his own course. I have played with a number of the female players from UNM and while very good I doubt that any could SMOKE our club champion. None could match any of our top three players for distance off the tee. Your club champion must really suck for a scratch player, especially when he is on a shorter tee.

This isn't a safe space. You can't share anything here.

[nsxguy]

This is hilarious. I played a round with a couple of girls I estimated to be 19 or 20, whom I didn't know, on my home course, along with our men's champion, who's a scratch. We played from the men's tees. The girls played from the tips, and they were out driving our men's champion by 20 yards. Turns out they were both on the UGA golf team.

 

They weren't LPGA pros, and they both smoked the best player in our club on his home course without breaking a sweat.

 

A 4 capper? Hahaha! Any LPGA pro could give him 4 a side and still crush him.

 

What's really hilarious is that you even offer this as "proof positive",,,,,,,,, of anything,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :wave:

[willgolf4food]

This is hilarious. I played a round with a couple of girls I estimated to be 19 or 20, whom I didn't know, on my home course, along with our men's champion, who's a scratch. We played from the men's tees. The girls played from the tips, and they were out driving our men's champion by 20 yards. Turns out they were both on the UGA golf team.

 

They weren't LPGA pros, and they both smoked the best player in our club on his home course without breaking a sweat.

 

A 4 capper? Hahaha! Any LPGA pro could give him 4 a side and still crush him.

 

What's really hilarious is that you even offer this as "proof positive",,,,,,,,, of anything,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :wave:

 

Yeah, ok... This user community lacks some basic courtesies. If you disagree, accuse the poster of making it up, instead of just disagreeing. Or mock the poster because you disagree... Sad, really. You've convinced me to go away. Have fun abusing each other.

Thanks.

[nsxguy]

This is hilarious. I played a round with a couple of girls I estimated to be 19 or 20, whom I didn't know, on my home course, along with our men's champion, who's a scratch. We played from the men's tees. The girls played from the tips, and they were out driving our men's champion by 20 yards. Turns out they were both on the UGA golf team.

 

They weren't LPGA pros, and they both smoked the best player in our club on his home course without breaking a sweat.

 

A 4 capper? Hahaha! Any LPGA pro could give him 4 a side and still crush him.

 

What's really hilarious is that you even offer this as "proof positive",,,,,,,,, of anything,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :wave:

 

Yeah, ok... This user community lacks some basic courtesies. If you disagree, accuse the poster of making it up, instead of just disagreeing. Or mock the poster because you disagree... Sad, really. You've convinced me to go away. Have fun abusing each other.

Thanks.

 

You're the one that used the presumptuous "hilarious" tag on your "one off" observation,,,,,,,, where MANY posters throughout this thread at least tried to make some convincing (and not so convincing) arguments/explanations/whatever.

 

You do realize that your statement wasn't very "courteous" to those that offered what they considered valid reasons why the 4 could beat AN LPGA Pro ?

 

Perhaps you reaped what you sowed ?

 

Or maybe you need to develop a little thicker skin ? Or put a bit more thought into a post ? As you maybe should have ? Or at least not used the "hilarious" rejoinder ?

 

Sorry you were (apparently) so offended,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Hot Rod 71]

This is hilarious. I played a round with a couple of girls I estimated to be 19 or 20, whom I didn't know, on my home course, along with our men's champion, who's a scratch. We played from the men's tees. The girls played from the tips, and they were out driving our men's champion by 20 yards. Turns out they were both on the UGA golf team.

 

They weren't LPGA pros, and they both smoked the best player in our club on his home course without breaking a sweat.

 

A 4 capper? Hahaha! Any LPGA pro could give him 4 a side and still crush him.

 

What's really hilarious is that you even offer this as "proof positive",,,,,,,,, of anything,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :wave:

 

Yeah, ok... This user community lacks some basic courtesies. If you disagree, accuse the poster of making it up, instead of just disagreeing. Or mock the poster because you disagree... Sad, really. You've convinced me to go away. Have fun abusing each other.

Thanks.

 

You're the one that used the presumptuous "hilarious" tag on your "one off" observation,,,,,,,, where MANY posters throughout this thread at least tried to make some convincing (and not so convincing) arguments/explanations/whatever.

 

You do realize that your statement wasn't very "courteous" to those that offered what they considered valid reasons why the 4 could beat AN LPGA Pro ?

 

Perhaps you reaped what you sowed ?

 

Or maybe you need to develop a little thicker skin ? Or put a bit more thought into a post ? As you maybe should have ? Or at least not used the "hilarious" rejoinder ?

 

Sorry you were (apparently) so offended,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Sign of the times, unfortunately........

[Obee]

The funny thing is that this is truly one of the least contentious golf boards out there...

[EntourageLife]

The funny thing is that this is truly one of the least contentious golf boards out there...

 

Haha