Can a 4-handicap man beat an LPGA pro?

[Scottbox]

Any good female competitive golfer could absolutely destroy a 4-handicapper. Most 4s are 4s on their course, and 10s on courses they're unfamiliar with. Female pros regularly play at least a dozen to 100 different courses, under hella competitive pressure, shooting par or way better. Even if they don't hit it 280, they consistently hit fairways, shape their shots, throw darts with their short and mid-irons, have crazy-good short games, and possess the personalities of gun slingers. Not to mention the putting...

Good luck with your fantasy though, guys!

 

[Myherobobhope]

Just going to throw this up here for fun... a four handicap would have a fair shot at beating the 7th player on the 15th best women's team in the country... maybe. I'm guessing any collegiate level golfer would destroy a 4 handicap simply because they are used to tournament conditions... especially judging by how badly people performed in the qualifier for the championship at my home course... (it was brutal... I think 88 qualified...)

 

[farmer]

I didn't realize this thread is so old. Wow, time flies.

[dhc1]

I only brought it up cuz it seems pretty clear that the person who started it read it here first (a 4 handicap?!?!)

I think it’s pretty well established that the 100th ranked LPGA pro is somewhere between a real +2 and a scratch men’s player.

NFW would a men’s 4 win a tourney nor make the cut - I’d guess he’d be very very lucky not to finish DFL.

[Leftlove94]

It’s possible but not super likely I think. Assuming the 4 handicap gets the “tour” treatment where all the clubs are specially tweaked just to hit game, he has a knowledgeable caddy with a strategy. I’m a 4 and I don’t see myself beating them unless they had a bad day.

[indianagolf2]

Lol..that says it all. Lol. Even if she was par..she would not have blowup days like a non pro scratch. I know of a guy who can play to a plus 7..his words...i think plus 3 or 4. Q school years back....shot 86 2nd round..game over. This was when q school was 3 levels. He won i think gold metal for finishing first in level 1 3 or 4 rounds out of maybe 130 guys. His name Rob Labritz

[bluedot]

I think what you are saying is that, with all of those adjustments, the 4 wouldn't be a 4 any longer, which is sort of a different argument, I think. If he's a 4, regardless of his equipment, a caddy, etc, he's still a 4, right?

[bluedot]

Great post, and I think the key phrase in the whole thing is "personalities of gun slingers". If you're a pro golfer of either gender, and pay the mortgage and buy food and clothes playing for money, you are just different, and that can't be overstated.

The three LPGA pros that I play with are the sweetest, nicest, easiet-to-root-for people that you can imagine, and they'll gut you like a fish every time they get the chance. They're just wired that way, or they don't become professional golfers.

[jons1]

lol... I don't want to pile on or sift through 77 pages of comments... but if the consensus wasn't 'what are you smoking' then rethink things.

A pro golfer of any gender would beat the crap out of the club golfer. 4 handicap isn't even that good lol. When you get into a +2 handicap or better territory, maybe we can start the conversation about the fantasy of playing your best day on the pros worse day and you giving them a run for their money... maybe...

[dhc1]

I think a +2 takes the average LPGA player down more often than not. We saw that Brittney Lincicome averaged about +3.5 and she's far better than the average LPGA player (where the depth isn't close to the men's game - the best women are far better than the those struggling to maintain their card).

A regular four gets waxed by both LPGA players and a +2 to scratch men's player

[iteachgolf]

To make a cut, let alone multiple, in a major you’d absolutely have to play to a +7. Ladies and male professionals have blow up days just like every other golfer.

[Leftlove94]

I think your everyday “4” is better than a 4 if he gets the tour treatment. If we’re just isolating ability, let’s take a current 4 handicap, give him a caddy, fitting, spotters for balls, trampled rough, manicured fairways greens, bunkers. I think they shoot better than their typical score in most cases. Still probably wouldn’t beat a LPGA pro, but on an off day maybe.

[Scottbox]

Nah. Put that 4 in any major championship setting with narrow fairways, tall rough, a huge gallery, and they fold like a deck of cards. Shit, I've seen friends who play off a +2 trying to play in pro-ams, and they can't even handle that pressure.

[iteachgolf]

The trampled rough is still longer than what most are used to and that’s only well off the fairway. No way a 4 plays better than normal in a tour event. I think the overwhelming majority have absolutely no idea how much harder they set up your events than a normal day on the same course

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

It would be really difficult for me to believe that that same 4 given all that “treatment” would be that much better. Most low single digit players I know are not playing stock anything and get reasonably fitted.

[juststeve]

The answer to the original question is sure, a 4 handicap male can beat an LPGA pro if he has a much better than average round and she has a terrible round. The same would be true of a 4 and a PGA pro as well. In either case the pro would beat the 4 most of the time, and by a lot.

Steve

[jons1]

was the lpga player in a tragic accident where one limb was missing before this head to head competition?

 

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

Tournament conditions are very difficult. Anyone breaking 80 on a professional setup would be better than a 4, IMO?

That’s just about the only way I could see myself winning. Or if she was 9 months and her water broke at the turn.

[bluedot]

Ok, but then he isn't a 4 anymore, right? Wouldn't the stuff you are talking about be another version of seeing Butch Harmon and lowering your index from a 4 to scratch? A 4 is a 4 is a 4, unless he isn't anymore.

[rich_s2]

We have a very talented girl here that plays college golf. I am a 2 currently and I have to play good to beat her off the same box. She is no where near LPGA level yet. She does everything well, can drive it 250 and rarely misses a fairway. We have a lot of 4-5's here that would not fair well against her and if they play back she would own them most of the time.

[dhc1]

I assume you’re taking about a 4 (I Strongly agree) and not a +2 (I disagree)

[anythingfinite]

The avg male scratch player doesn't even break the top 100 in driving distance on the LPGA. So they are going into par 4s with long irons to firmer, faster greens than they have ever played.

The avg scratch male golfer doesn't break the top 100 in scrambling or putting on the LPGA. So not only is he coming in from longer distances than half the field, he's not going to be getting up and down or making the putts.

These are actual stats. The avg scratch male stats are from his home course with his buddies. The LPGA stats are under tournament conditions. There is no hope for a scratch male, so a 4 is DOA.

[mudge]

You’re getting carried away.

For 2020 LPGA avg driving distance 100th place is 249.6 yds, and from what I’ve found the average male scratch golfer has a avg driver CHS of ~105 mph (+10 over LPGA avg) or for USGA rating purposes he has an avg drive of 250 yds which puts him in the top 100.

[dhc1]

According to trackman, the average LPGA player total distance is 237 yards and the average total distance for a scratch or better is 259 yard.https://blog.trackmangolf.com/total-distance/

We've also translated actual LPGA scores on courses to calculate a men's handicap as they play on courses and at yardages and conditions that are similar to the regular tees at most good courses. The analysis comes out right around scratch or +1 (thus the range).

If your point is that men exaggerate and we're not really talking about true scratch players, that's probably true for a subsegment of good players.

[Obee]

What kind of college golf? Top D1 school? Or?

[Obee]

Have you ever played with an LPGA Tour Pro?

[rich_s2]

D3, D1 would destroy the boys here. One of our members daughters played D1 and he said the same.

[Obee]

I've played with LPGA Tour Pros and D1 gals. Just played a Symetra Tour player a few weeks back who was All Conference at UCLA. I have some stories....

[rich_s2]

Well dude! I love stories!! Would love to hear your insight on all golf matters. Nothing but respect here :)

[anythingfinite]

Okay, so LPGA average is 237, but the Top 100 are over 250. Average scratch is 255, so he MIGHT break the top 100 on his home course where he plays to a 0. But then again, the women are going to outplay him there too.

Avg LPGA course length is 6400yds. So at his length, he's going to be having long irons into par 4s with harder and faster greens than he sees at his local club on Thu evenings and Sat mornings. And you know damn well his short game isn't going to touch hers.