Can a 4-handicap man beat an LPGA pro?

[anythingfinite]

I have not. But I have played with a D2 college level female golfer who smoked me from the Blue tees when I was a 4.1.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

Interesting, I always though LPGA and male scratch +1 were pretty similar skill levels?

[Obee]

That is not surprising if she was a solid D2 player. What is your lowest index ever?

[Justsomeguy]

So how badly would Rory beat Jin Young Ko on an 8k yard course set up for a pga tourney?

[dhc1]

You seem to think that most scratch players are weekend warriors who only play one course that is soft and short. In my experience, most scratch players are former competitive players who travel quite a bit and whose game travels as well.

I’ll state again that translating The average LPGA scores into a handicap gives about a men’s scratch handicap. Why do you think that is?

the course are not generally set up harder than normal play at good courses.

finally, if you hit it 255, you’re not going to have long irons into many greens at 6400 yards unless a 7i is a long iron

[dhc1]

I think that’s about right. Average LPGA is between scratch and +2. The best female players are well above that

[dhc1]

What do you think the comparable men’s handicap is for the 100th ranked LPGA player?

[anythingfinite]

Let's take all of the numbers you guys are throwing out as our agreed upon given.

The male scratch golfer would rank somewhere in the 95-100th slot on the LPGA in overall stats. Roughly 70 players make a cut each week. He would have to play his face off to make the cut on the number. He might do it! He might see the weekend. That leaves us here:

1. He will not hold a candle to the vast majority of women professionals without a statistical outlier of a round.

2. If the scratch player has no hope, a 4 should keep his ass on the couch like the rest of us and actually learn something from watching the women play. And maybe do a little soul-searching on why he holds such deep-seeded sexist ideas.

[dhc1]

I agree with the second point in that there's NFW that a 4 is competitive with an LPGA pro. The first point is wrong as there are hundreds of professional women. As per the LPGA: Of the more than 530 LPGA Tour members, approximately 220 are active competitors throughout the season. This doesn't even include the Symetra tour, etc.

This thread title is "Can a 4 handicap beat an LPGA pro" and I think if you change it to a scratch golfer, the answer switches from NFW to yes.

I'll again ask,"what do you think the equivalent men's handicap is for the 100th ranked LPGA player?"

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

One should simply accept that there are plenty of women who can beat 98% of men in every sport. Obviously, in most sports created by males, the best men will dominate over the best female players.

I doubt that a 4 can honestly come close to beating any player on the LPGA. I even have my doubts for him besting any recognized ladies professional tour players.

Not sure about the sexist commentary? Looking at the raw numbers, it’s entirely possible to think that a female LPGA player can be beaten by a 4 until you look at the other factors involved such as the course conditions being played.

[bluedot]

The scratch thing muddies the water in this. I'd venture to say that the gap between a true scratch golfer and a 4 index is HUGE, much bigger than the gap between a scratch and an LPGA pro. A 4 index is a good player; a true scratch golfer is something entirely different, as are LPGA pros.

And fwiw, I think the question of how often a 4 could beat a scratch from 6500 yds is has almost the same answer as the 4 vs LPGA question.

[Soloman1]

An LPGA Tour player in the bottom third of scoring is about a +6. The top third are about +7.

[Buzzkill]

You guys are silly thinking now that a scratch male golfer has a chance, lol!

[nsxguy]

What most of you (especially) recent posters are missing is it depends on who the 2 participants are. And what day it is.

OK, we've got one, a 4 handicap guy. He has the capability of shooting even par.

Now let's take the LAST 10 ladies on Tour. I guarantee at least one of them has shot as high as 80 once in a while. And over par a fair bit of the time else they wouldn't be the last 10 on the LPGA.

NOW let's take the question. "CAN a 4-handicap man beat an LPGA pro?"

So the answer is obviously "Yes".

How often ? What are the odds on any given round ? Now THOSE are different questions. LOL

 

[Obee]

Ummmmmm....
Those are women's indexes.
Paging @ThinkingPlus ... :-)

[Obee]

Sigh...

[ThinkingPlus]

That is correct. Subtract ~6 to get men's equivalent. The very top LPGA pros are around +8 or better. D1 kids are +3 to +4 usually. Most college girls are plus at the least although some small school kids might be closer to scratch.

[anythingfinite]

If she shoots 80+ on a course on a given day, he won't break 100.

[ATLgopher]

What tour does your girl play on??

[nsxguy]

Can you explain to me how her score has anything to do with his ?

You know what ? Never mind.

[ATLgopher]

Your last point is way off the mark.

[iteachgolf]

I would love to take that bet and have plenty of traveling scratch golfers you can choose from.

[Soloman1]

Yes, ThinkingPlus is correct. +8 for top tier. I was being conservative since it’s only an estimated handicap, but he’s right. This thread needs some reality. I’m not just some guy on the internet. You may not know me, but people in the business do.

I know Div I players who would wipe the floor with scratch amateur males.

[Obee]

You were not paying attention to what she said.

 

 

[farmer]

Jump in Obee and tell your stories. Right now you're just teasing.

[Obee]

iTeach, He's the same kind of guy who when I posted about a traveling scratch playing Phil Mickelson on a Tour-level (7,150, 75.7/147 course with firm greens running at 13, but with a two tee (700 yard) advantage (6,450, 71.9/139) thought the scratch would get destroyed and it would be "no contest." "10 or more strokes, easy."

Then I posted what actually happened…

This is the same kind of thing. Some people just don't understand the difference between a tournament level mid-amateur/senior amateur and a non-tournament level one.

But it's important to define the terms here. The conversation has become one of extremes. No one here is saying is Scratch Golfer is going to win an LPGA event. But if you think that a tournament tested scratch amateur can't hang with the number 100 ranked LPGA tour player, and give that player a competitive match on a fairly regular basis, you just don't understand tournament golf. At all.

 

[Obee]

Also, many don't understand that some of us have "been there done that" with PGA Tour Pros and Champions Tour pros and Korn Ferry pros and LPGA Pros and Symetra Pros and D1 and D2 golfers, male and female alike, etc., etc., etc.

We know exactly how our games stack up against every one of those types of pros/college golfers, because we've played with them many, many times. We've played with and against them in invitationals and in friendlies and in money matches when they are trying to rip our throats out.

Just ... listen a bit and you might learn something.

[Soloman1]

I'm sorry, I should have read more diligently. I had a couple of martinis.

[Obee]

LOLZ. I am often guilty of that in my late night golf posting, but it's bourbon or scotch with me. ;-)

[anythingfinite]

Your first scenario sounds much more likely and frankly, far more interesting and debatable.

I suppose my issue with the LPGA-4/scr argument is that it is being framed as a "mediocre male golfer is better than professional female golfers" and that's an absolute joke of a line of thinking. Its rooted in deep-seeded sexism. The idea behind it is to evoke a thought experiment to see how "less skilled" women professionals are.

Could a scratch eek out a win against the worst of the 530 LPGA pros? Probably. But he could against the worst PGA pro too, more than likely. Would he have a chance of being competitive enough to see the weekend? Not a chance.

But again, the question is phrased generally as though it applies to ANY LPGA pro, but is clearly pointed at drawing the conclusion that men are better golfers than women.

And while I haven't read any of your personal stories, anecdotal evidence isn't even really a proof of concept.