SNELL GOLF BALLS??? anyone???

[St Jimmy]

I just bought the value 5 pack for each ball despite having 13 dozen MTB X in my closet.  

Can't have enough balls right? 

 

[VladDrag]

1 hour ago, robp11 said:

The Black was the lower spinning ball, so you might have just mixed these up.

Just as an FYI, This iteration has changed apparently.  There is a chart on page 204, copied below, that shows the Prime X is higher flying, lower spinning than the Prime.
 

so, This iteration of the X is more like the LD ProV1, TP5x, Tour BX, Z-Star XV etc.  Higher launch, lower spin. 

 

[mogc60]

I love the look of the new Prime. I really like the new font. To each their own. Look forward to trying these 

[robp11]

3 minutes ago, VladDrag said:

Just as an FYI, This iteration has changed apparently.  There is a chart on page 204, copied below, that shows the Prime X is higher flying, lower spinning than the Prime.
 

so, This iteration of the X is more like the LD ProV1, TP5x, Tour BX, Z-Star XV etc.  Higher launch, lower spin. 

 

Yup, I agree.  I came to love the left dash last year, so I will probably lean toward the Prime X, but I'm still going to order the value pack just to make sure.

[larciel]

I will wait to hear some user feedbacks and order it.  Characteristic change is something significant.

[luckypolk]

Had a feeling this thread would be popping today. Glad to see Dean is back and brought the value packs with him. 

[flushem]

I need yellow balls and have 6 dozens of other balls to burn.  By then, you guys will give me plenty of feedback.

[Naptime]

Just bought a few mixed boxes of Prime.  Prefer yellow but the price is good and between these and my Pro V1 stash I should be good for the summer.

[storm319]

8 hours ago, ab98898 said:

That's great - it's also not what I said/asked. Others don't even deny it only seemed to affect Snell.

As other’s have suggested, you would have your answer had you read Dean’s last few posts.

 

The big 5 bought huge surpluses of ionomer when they could which is not a realistic option for most of the smaller independent factories so they did not experience the crunch as bad (most still experienced supply issues in 2021). TM then bought the Nassau factory where Snell balls were made and became the top priority for production capacity. Dean’s last shipment was received in late 2021 and he decided to ration that supply throughout 2022 not knowing when he would be able to get more (a better move than running out selling 5 dozen value packs at a lower margin and having no product to sell for most of 2022). So basically it was a combination of material supply challenges, the factory being acquired, and the fact that few DTCs were using this factory in the first place.

 

You may be thinking “why didn’t he just change factories?”. First, there were only 2 independent factories with the ability to produce cast thermoset urethane covers and the only alternative Foremost did not have any available capacity. Next, unlike the other DTCs Dean actually designs his models (making a factory switch much harder even if they have the ability/capacity to make what he needs). Other DTCs that had a hard time getting product from Nassau/Foremost went to the next tier down and simply bought off the shelf white label offerings from another factory with their logo slapped on it and tried to market it as an improvement (which it was not in most cases).

[IndyArcher]

3 hours ago, storm319 said:

As other’s have suggested, you would have your answer had you read Dean’s last few posts.

 

The big 5 bought huge surpluses of ionomer when they could which is not a realistic option for most of the smaller independent factories so they did not experience the crunch as bad (most still experienced supply issues in 2021). TM then bought the Nassau factory where Snell balls were made and became the top priority for production capacity. Dean’s last shipment was received in late 2021 and he decided to ration that supply throughout 2022 not knowing when he would be able to get more (a better move than running out selling 5 dozen value packs at a lower margin and having no product to sell for most of 2022). So basically it was a combination of material supply challenges, the factory being acquired, and the fact that few DTCs were using this factory in the first place.

 

You may be thinking “why didn’t he just change factories?”. First, there were only 2 independent factories with the ability to produce cast thermoset urethane covers and the only alternative Foremost did not have any available capacity. Next, unlike the other DTCs Dean actually designs his models (making a factory switch much harder even if they have the ability/capacity to make what he needs). Other DTCs that had a hard time getting product from Nassau/Foremost went to the next tier down and simply bought off the shelf white label offerings from another factory with their logo slapped on it and tried to market it as an improvement (which it was not in most cases).

 

Which companies did that? That would seem like good info to have. I would definitely like to avoid companies doing business like that!

[Hoff_19]

I am really concerned that the higher spinning ball is now going to feel so much more different. I loved the MTB-X. It was firm but a soft mantle so you could really feel the skin grab the club face. I don't pick golf balls based on feel but I did really prefer the feel of the MTB-X over the MTB. It just so happened that the spin and flight of the MTB-X would have been my choice anyways based on performance. 

 

With the new MTB-Prime which is now the higher spinning ball (but also lower trajectory?), how much different will the MTB-X be from the new MTB-Prime? 

 

@Snell Golf Can you provide some insight since no one has been able to do their own tests/comparisons? Can you give us some insight as to what the thinking was between coming out with 2 new balls that are significant changes from the old balls as opposed to 2 new "iterations" of the same older balls? Was it just not possible to get firmer feel with higher spin and a TPU mantle?

[ChadL]

1 hour ago, IndyArcher said:

 

Which companies did that? That would seem like good info to have. I would definitely like to avoid companies doing business like that!

Just guessing, but there aren't too many ball brands that actually have ball manufacturing capability.  So, with that in mind, I would guess Titleist, Bridgestone, Callaway, Taylormade, and Srixon bought up surpluses.

[IndyArcher]

58 minutes ago, ChadL said:

Just guessing, but there aren't too many ball brands that actually have ball manufacturing capability.  So, with that in mind, I would guess Titleist, Bridgestone, Callaway, Taylormade, and Srixon bought up surpluses.

Actually not the question I asked. What DTC companies bought other balls and marketed as their own during the constrained markets?

[ChadL]

37 minutes ago, IndyArcher said:

Actually not the question I asked. What DTC companies bought other balls and marketed as their own during the constrained markets?

Ohhhhhh....sorry.....I have no idea 🙂

[rlb4]

1 hour ago, IndyArcher said:

Actually not the question I asked. What DTC companies bought other balls and marketed as their own during the constrained markets?

Wouldn't basically all of the DTC brands(except Snell) have to do that? Do any of them besides Snell actually design their balls?

[jimb6golf]

I'm always encouraged when Snell debuts new golf balls, as Dean has always produced terrific products. But I am questioning the change from cast balls to TPU balls, specifically in regards to durability.  The earlier Red balls weren't to my liking and I much preferred the MTB and MTB-X balls.  They were very much a less expensive version of the Pro-V1 balls in my opinion and I believe were the only cast balls on the market, at least that I'm aware of.  Hopefully Dean will offer some information in the near future explaining the design of the balls and how they compare with the MTB versions and how they have addressed durability, etc.  As one of the only DTC ball companies that actually designs their products (the others just purchase lines from various manufacturers) I have been very loyal to Snell golf balls and hope to continue.

[brew4eagle]

2 hours ago, rlb4 said:

Wouldn't basically all of the DTC brands(except Snell) have to do that? Do any of them besides Snell actually design their balls?

I get the impression that Vice designs their models, but maybe that's just their marketing/advertising that gives that impression 

[storm319]

2 hours ago, brew4eagle said:

I get the impression that Vice designs their models, but maybe that's just their marketing/advertising that gives that impression 

Vice’s “design” is the equivalent of specifying toppings when ordering from a pizza place and then implying that you designed/made the pizza (some of their models are flat out off the shelf). Most DTCs do the equivalent of walking into Little Caesar’s and ordering a Hot and Ready.
 

That analogy applied to Snell would be  Dean specifying very specific ingredients (that the pizza place may not have on hand), how to prep those ingredients, how to make the sauce, how to knead the dough, specifying the oven temp/cook time, maybe even going to the kitchen and showing the staff how to make the first pizza. 

[gioreeko]

3 hours ago, brew4eagle said:

I get the impression that Vice designs their models, but maybe that's just their marketing/advertising that gives that impression 

and their Pro plus have cast covers too

[IndyArcher]

5 hours ago, rlb4 said:

Wouldn't basically all of the DTC brands(except Snell) have to do that? Do any of them besides Snell actually design their balls?

Well, I don’t know. The accusation was made, so I figure facts would be prudent as evidence. 

[gricky]

I bought two dozen out of respect for what Dean did with the mtb x - but I’m going to be honest. Not a fan of the move to TPU. I get supply chain issues but kind of feels like I’m paying the same price for a cheap ball now.

 

anyways, I’ll give it a shot. 

[brew4eagle]

1 hour ago, storm319 said:

Vice’s “design” is the equivalent of specifying toppings when ordering from a pizza place and then implying that you designed/made the pizza (some of their models are flat out off the shelf). Most DTCs do the equivalent of walking into Little Caesar’s and ordering a Hot and Ready.
 

That analogy applied to Snell would be  Dean specifying very specific ingredients (that the pizza place may not have on hand), how to prep those ingredients, how to make the sauce, how to knead the dough, specifying the oven temp/cook time, maybe even going to the kitchen and showing the staff how to make the first pizza. 

Ok, but if the end results are excellent performing balls from both outfits (ie, Vice Pro/Pro Plus and Snell MTB/MTB X) then someone with engineering chops on par with Snell is designing the Vice balls.  Does it matter if it's outsourced engineering?  

[storm319]

 

5 minutes ago, brew4eagle said:

Ok, but if the end results are excellent performing balls from both outfits (ie, Vice Pro/Pro Plus and Snell MTB/MTB X) then someone with engineering chops on par with Snell is designing the Vice balls.  Does it matter if it's outsourced engineering?  

My reply was not a commentary on quality of the end product (Foremost makes a great ball). What turns some people off is Vice’s marketing implying that they are actually engineering and/or producing their balls.

 

Anyways, let’s get this thread back on topic.

[storm319]

1 hour ago, IndyArcher said:

Well, I don’t know. The accusation was made, so I figure facts would be prudent as evidence. 

Here are a couple of examples:

 

Vice Pro Zero - introduced when Vice was struggling to get Pro product from Foremost a couple of years ago. This model is a white label TPU 3-piece offering from the Feng Tay factory in Vietnam which greatly deviated from the Foremost made cast thermoset urethane Pro models.

 

Oncore Elixir - the 2022 version saw this move from a Foremost made 3-piece cast to a white label TPU offering from Launch Technologies in Taiwan. 
 

In both cases they are using the factory’s house dimple pattern which can be a clue as to which factory is producing it.

[Tanner25]

I like the new lettering. The block type is simple.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Tanner25

[IndyArcher]

8 hours ago, storm319 said:

Here are a couple of examples:

 

Vice Pro Zero - introduced when Vice was struggling to get Pro product from Foremost a couple of years ago. This model is a white label TPU 3-piece offering from the Feng Tay factory in Vietnam which greatly deviated from the Foremost made cast thermoset urethane Pro models.

 

Oncore Elixir - the 2022 version saw this move from a Foremost made 3-piece cast to a white label TPU offering from Launch Technologies in Taiwan. 
 

In both cases they are using the factory’s house dimple pattern which can be a clue as to which factory is producing it.

 

That sort of makes sense. I mean the explanation does, but was Vice out of stock of their other products for a long time? They very well could have been and I didn’t know about it, but I never heard of them not having the primary line to sell. 

[VladDrag]

10 hours ago, storm319 said:

Here are a couple of examples:

 

Vice Pro Zero - introduced when Vice was struggling to get Pro product from Foremost a couple of years ago. This model is a white label TPU 3-piece offering from the Feng Tay factory in Vietnam which greatly deviated from the Foremost made cast thermoset urethane Pro models.

 

Oncore Elixir - the 2022 version saw this move from a Foremost made 3-piece cast to a white label TPU offering from Launch Technologies in Taiwan. 
 

In both cases they are using the factory’s house dimple pattern which can be a clue as to which factory is producing it.

I appreciate reading your posts on the last page regarding TPU covers and cast covers.

 

What I am unsure of is what the difference in performance regarding cast covers and TPU covers? It sounds like durability is a worry here. Is there anything else?

[larciel]

59 minutes ago, VladDrag said:

I appreciate reading your posts on the last page regarding TPU covers and cast covers.

 

What I am unsure of is what the difference in performance regarding cast covers and TPU covers? It sounds like durability is a worry here. Is there anything else?

For me it was the feel. 

I like the 'sticky' feeling of cast U. When hit on the center 

[cardigan]

Detailed discussion today on the mgs youtube channel:  "Snell golf balls are back, but where did they go? | NO PUTTS GIVEN 140"

[brew4eagle]

With cast being thought of as the better cover, why would TPU be used?  Was it to lower the cost and/or ensure better supply?  Seems like a risky move as a lot of people may infer the quality of the ball has decreased vs the prior generation.