SNELL GOLF BALLS??? anyone???

[IndyArcher]

21 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

Don’t forget damages for pain and suffering as well.

 

Sounds like a class-action suit if other people were accidental witnesses!

[hammergolf]

Wow, Snell is sold out their first allotment in one day! Looking forward to reading the reviews. Looks like switching the dimple pattern and cover construction they’ve also been able to eliminate the big seam on the new model. 

[hammergolf]

1 minute ago, ab98898 said:

A bunch of dumb, triggered simps in this thread

Says the simp whining about a golf ball….

[bekgolf]

55 minutes ago, ab98898 said:

A bunch of dumb, triggered simps in this thread

 

Where is the boo! hiss! emoji? 

 

You have been trolling hard from first post to last.  If I'd guess why it would be disgruntled former employee, or jilted lover.

[bekgolf]

1 hour ago, ab98898 said:

A bunch of dumb, triggered simps in this thread

 

8 hours ago, ab98898 said:

As I've said multiple times now - I read his posts and I don't buy it, unless he simply admitted he did not plan well. Again - what other DTC ball manufacturer is going through this? It doesn't appear to be any, yet Dean is just acting like it totally is affecting others. He just, like other crappy business owners, wants to use COVID as a scapegoat for his poor planning.

 

I game Srixon now.

 

On 4/3/2023 at 8:15 PM, ab98898 said:

That's great - it's also not what I said/asked. Others don't even deny it only seemed to affect Snell.

 

On 3/23/2023 at 12:50 PM, ab98898 said:

 

 

Yeah, I read those, but they don't answer my question still. How was Snell literally the only ball manufacturer to run into the problems they did?

It feels like they are using COVID as an excuse for their own poor planning. It's been how long now since they've been able to stock MTB balls? And this is while 1/2 of the country has been in the offseason. I don't buy their excuses, and I'm ready to buy another ball.

 

On 3/14/2023 at 12:31 PM, ab98898 said:

@Snell Golf why does it seem like you're the only ball manufacturer that is dealing with the issues that you have brought up? Or at least to such a severe level? I don't see any other manufacturer that has just straight up stopped selling their product in the past year.

 

I took 5 minutes of my time (I'm retired and have lots of extra minutes) and multi quoted all of your posts.  Can you see why it looks like insanity? 

 

[rlb4]

10 hours ago, wantacigar said:

All the Pro line balls are cast urethane EXCEPT for the Zero.  That's a TPU.

So Vice can get supply to make cast balls(Pro and Pro Plus) but Dean Snell can't?

[rlb4]

Oops duplicate

Edited April 6, 2023 by rlb4
Duplicate

[wantacigar]

6 hours ago, rlb4 said:

So Vice can get supply to make cast balls(Pro and Pro Plus) but Dean Snell can't?

Vice is manufactured by Foremost.  The only other factory that does cast other than Titleist own factory.  Vice is MUCH larger than Snell.  Snell is manufactured by Nassau which was bought by Taylor Made in 2021.  TM had supply issues as well so they focused all the production at Nassau to try to keep up with demand for their product, understandably.  Foremost was at capacity and having a hard time keeping up with their demand along with the ionomer material shortages, and if they could have handled the capacity, it takes time to retool for someone else design specifications.  This all put Snell in a difficult position.  They had to totally redesign the balls and come up with a TPU formulation that would perform and be durable.  Per his interview with MGS he has two factories producing for him now and working on setting up controls for QC and tooling for his designs with another two factories so he don't run into this problem again.  Oncore had the same problem except they took a catalog TPU ball and slapped their name on it.  The Elixr was cast and now is TPU. 

 

This can be a discussion for over an hour but this is the condensed version.  That being said, if anyone has a problem with Snell and the way they did and do business, go somewhere else.  People that like Snell will keep buying Snell.  That's the beauty of a free market system.  Why is this even a discussion.   

[storm319]

7 hours ago, rlb4 said:

So Vice can get supply to make cast balls(Pro and Pro Plus) but Dean Snell can't?

Only independent alternative for cast urethane is Foremost and they apparently have no available capacity given that Taylormade, Dicks, Wilson, and Vice have priority.

 

It will be interesting to see if Taylormade pulls out of Foremost now that they own Nassau or if any of the next tier factories attempt to develop cast TSU capabilities that make this cover assembly method more readily available in the future.

[gioreeko]

4 hours ago, wantacigar said:

Vice is manufactured by Foremost.  The only other factory that does cast other than Titleist own factory.  Vice is MUCH larger than Snell.  Snell is manufactured by Nassau which was bought by Taylor Made in 2021.  TM had supply issues as well so they focused all the production at Nassau to try to keep up with demand for their product, understandably.  Foremost was at capacity and having a hard time keeping up with their demand along with the ionomer material shortages, and if they could have handled the capacity, it takes time to retool for someone else design specifications.  This all put Snell in a difficult position.  They had to totally redesign the balls and come up with a TPU formulation that would perform and be durable.  Per his interview with MGS he has two factories producing for him now and working on setting up controls for QC and tooling for his designs with another two factories so he don't run into this problem again.  Oncore had the same problem except they took a catalog TPU ball and slapped their name on it.  The Elixr was cast and now is TPU. 

 

This can be a discussion for over an hour but this is the condensed version.  That being said, if anyone has a problem with Snell and the way they did and do business, go somewhere else.  People that like Snell will keep buying Snell.  That's the beauty of a free market system.  Why is this even a discussion.   

what is the difference between cast and TPU covers? is one more durable? spin more? more expensive to produce? I honestly have no idea. 

[Jeff58]

34 minutes ago, gioreeko said:

what is the difference between cast and TPU covers? is one more durable? spin more? more expensive to produce? I honestly have no idea. 

As you observe, those names or labels really say nothing of either the processes or their potential differences. A better naming convention might be two-part resin (cast) vs injection molding. 
 

Historically, the resin process ability to create a more durable and thinner layer was an outright advantage. Injection molding became more sophisticated and their ability to control thickness and centering improved, limiting the advantage.
 

Most recently, the resin’s ability to create a thinner and more durable layer has been used to significant advantage when it was determined that green-side / partial shot spin could be enhanced by using a very soft / very hard cover to mantle configuration. 

[gioreeko]

13 minutes ago, Jeff58 said:

As you observe, those names or labels really say nothing of either the processes or their potential differences. A better naming convention might be two-part resin (cast) vs injection molding. 
 

Historically, the resin process ability to create a more durable and thinner layer was an outright advantage. Injection molding became more sophisticated and their ability to control thickness and centering improved, limiting the advantage.
 

Most recently, the resin’s ability to create a thinner and more durable layer has been used to significant advantage when it was determined that green-side / partial shot spin could be enhanced by using a very soft / very hard cover to mantle configuration. 

thanks for the info!

[wantacigar]

14 minutes ago, Jeff58 said:

As you observe, those names or labels really say nothing of either the processes or their potential differences. A better naming convention might be two-part resin (cast) vs injection molding. 
 

Historically, the resin process ability to create a more durable and thinner layer was an outright advantage. Injection molding became more sophisticated and their ability to control thickness and centering improved, limiting the advantage.
 

Most recently, the resin’s ability to create a thinner and more durable layer has been used to significant advantage when it was determined that green-side / partial shot spin could be enhanced by using a very soft / very hard cover to mantle configuration. 

@gioreeko what he 👆 said.  I have no idea about the engineering or processes.  I just know they are two different urethane processes.  Srixon, Callaway and Bridgestone, I believe, are TPU as far as OEM's are concerned.  Titleist and Taylor Made are cast.

@storm319 knows alot about the differences, scientifically speaking

Edited April 6, 2023 by wantacigar

[flushem]

14 hours ago, ab98898 said:

A bunch of dumb, triggered simps in this thread

Adios.  seems like you are more triggered than the rest in here.  We will see in (broken seem) Srixon crowd thread.

[hwturner17]

I leave this thread for a week and come back to insanity. What in the world has happened in here

[storm319]

6 hours ago, wantacigar said:

@gioreeko what he 👆 said.  I have no idea about the engineering or processes.  I just know they are two different urethane processes.  Srixon, Callaway and Bridgestone, I believe, are TPU as far as OEM's are concerned.  Titleist and Taylor Made are cast.

@storm319 knows alot about the differences, scientifically speaking

@Jeff58 is correct on the process vs material distinction.
Process = casting vs injection-molding Material = thermoset urethane vs thermoplastic urethane 

 

Cast Thermoset urethane - resin and catalyst components combined in a mold where a chemical reaction crosslinks the material as it cures. Generally results in thinner, softer, more resilient covers. Process is more expensive as it is more complicated to perform consistently, takes longer per cover, requires post mold painting, and material cannot be melted down/reused once mixed (more scrap). 
 

Injection-molded Thermoplastic urethane (TPU) - material premixed into a liquid and injection molded similarly to the way ionomer covers are. Generally results in thicker, harder covers (less durable given similar hardness). Process is less expensive as there are less steps/finishing and material can be melted down and reused if there are problems (coloring is also easier since the material is dyed prior to molding).

 

Dean touched on him and John Calabria (currently with OnCore) creating the process while at Acushnet when he was on the No Putts Given podcast.

[Stanks]

It'll be alright. In Snell we trust. And if you don't like it, go spend $55 on a Titleist dozen. Deuces. 

[Hoff_19]

21 hours ago, Jeff58 said:

Most recently, the resin’s ability to create a thinner and more durable layer has been used to significant advantage when it was determined that green-side / partial shot spin could be enhanced by using a very soft / very hard cover to mantle configuration. 

This is exactly why I loved the MTB-X.  The feel... *chef's kiss*

[Stephens24]

Got message that my Prime is on my porch…..can’t get to them for couple hours yet.

[flushem]

Capitalism kicks in right away.
 

 

[mokedaddy]

Man I have 14 dozen mtb x yellow in basement.  I could put my kids through college.

[Stanks]

4 hours ago, flushem said:

Capitalism kicks in right away.
 

 

 

Same thing happened with Nike RZN Tour Platinum and Blacks. A good ball will always fetch more value. 

[bekgolf]

3 hours ago, mokedaddy said:

Man I have 14 dozen mtb x yellow in basement.  I could put my kids through college.

 

The 4+ dozen mtb and x in my hobby room are probably more valuable than my irons.  BTW I was giving away Nike Tour One D balls just a few years ago, lol.  People go crazy for things they can't get.

[Hot Rod 71]

15 hours ago, flushem said:

Capitalism kicks in right away.
 

 

It’s like the original Costco K-sig all over again! 

[bakere]

The tpu vs cast information was new to me, so I looked into it a bit more and it looks like several tour caliber balls use tpu, like Bridgestone, Callaway and Srixon. Are the tour players using those balls (Bridgestone bx, chrome soft x etc.) getting tpu like the rest of us when we buy them from the store? If so, it seems like the performance of tpu can still be excellent. Is the worry Snell's you will be worse than those other ball brands?

[Eesh]

On 4/7/2023 at 11:12 AM, Stephens24 said:

Got message that my Prime is on my porch…..can’t get to them for couple hours yet.

Well……?

[mogc60]

Seems kinda funny to me that Masters Champions and the greatest player in the history of golf can use a TPU golf ball but it’s inferior somehow to the weekend warrior?? Being that Dean is one of the most influential golf ball designers ever I have full faith his new golf ball is top notch. Keep in mind he created new materials for this ball, new dimples, new finish and ensured manufacturing practices met his company standard not the other way around. 

[bakere]

1 hour ago, mogc60 said:

Seems kinda funny to me that Masters Champions and the greatest player in the history of golf can use a TPU golf ball but it’s inferior somehow to the weekend warrior?? Being that Dean is one of the most influential golf ball designers ever I have full faith his new golf ball is top notch. Keep in mind he created new materials for this ball, new dimples, new finish and ensured manufacturing practices met his company standard not the other way around. 

I was thinking a similar thing at the end of the Masters, the top 3 guys all play a tpu ball. Not sure if tpu is worth worrying about.

[mtsander]

Ordered the Prime as I was a huge fan of the Black model and I must say my first impressions are not good although I haven’t taken them to the course yet.
 

Personally not a fan of the rebranding.

The cover feels very cheap and slick.

I marked a ball with Sharpie, the ink doesn’t stick to the cover and can be wiped right off with little effort.

The sound off the putter is terrible, sounds very much like a ball with a Surlyn cover. 
The seam is more noticeable than before and the batch I received the alignment aid isn’t lined up with the seam like in previous models.

 

If it performs well on the course then I can’t complain too much but really don’t want a ball I have to remark after every hole. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by mtsander

[Flyers99]

57 minutes ago, mtsander said:

Ordered the Prime as I was a huge fan of the Black model and I must say my first impressions are not good although I haven’t taken them to the course yet.
 

Personally not a fan of the rebranding.

The cover feels very cheap and slick.

I marked a ball with Sharpie, the ink doesn’t stick to the cover and can be wiped right off with little effort.

The sound off the putter is terrible, sounds very much like a ball with a Surlyn cover. 
The seam is more noticeable than before and the batch I received the alignment aid isn’t lined up with the seam like in previous models.

 

If it performs well on the course then I can’t complain too much but really don’t want a ball I have to remark after every hole. 

Most of the TPU balls I have come across have that cheap/shiny/slick feel to them.  I assume it’s the materials used.  For me I prefer the look and feel of cast. Performance wise I could probably play a bunch of balls and see no difference so unfortunately I’ll stick with the balls where I like the look and feel of which are cast.  Not bashing Dean or the balls but these aren’t for me.