What would rejuvenate the golf equipment industry?

[Rebel420]

1. Overall US economy needs to be better. Folks aren't going to spend as much as often on leisure activities when finances are tight

2. The game needs to grow. Courses are closing every day. People don't have the time to play as they used to. The stigma behind playing 9 or playing par 3/executive courses needs to go.

3. Enforcement of "local rules" or separate amateur/pro rules. Allow more NC clubs for amateur. Essentially speeding up play for the casual round.

4. Longer product release cycles for big ticket items (drivers/irons).

5. Focus the more frequent releases on "consumables". You buy balls more often than irons, so new releases yearly not a bad thing. Even wedges replaced a bit more frequently (hint: make wedges using softer steels-- folks will love the softer feel, and it will mean more frequent replacements.

6. Standardize (I.e. All OEM using the same adapter)and expand (I.e. Bring the tech to irons-- it's already there for fitting clubs)the shaft/hosel adapters that are used in drivers now

6a. Allows average joe to make changes to try different shafts or heads without the downtime of leaving clubs at shop

6b. Encourages the sale of heads only or shafts only - for example, you drop $600 on a new TaylorMade driver with premium shaft (or $1200 on irons) today, 6 months from now you try a new Titleist driver/irons at a demo day. You won't want to drop another $600 on a new driver (or $1200 on irons), but if you could buy the head alone for $200, you just may do it.

7. Stop the outlandish claims ("so forgiving that you only need to touch the ball and your shot will go further and closer to where you want) and marketing to 12yr olds (Rocketballz anyone?). The demographic who is more likely to fall for the marketing is the one least likely to have the $$ to buy it. Think about it, the pharmaceutical industry knows who is watching golf, that's why you see viagra and cialis commercials in between the golf club commercials. The folks who are of the age to need Viagra are the ones who have the $$ to spend on clubs...and are also the ones who know the clubs are not going to go 200yardz further, and don't want something called Rocketballz in their bag.

[jslane57]

In an article I read this morning in GOLF.com, Jack Nicklaus says President Trump will be great for golf. Not trying to break the politics rule here, but what could a President Trump do to rejuvenate golf?

[bifferoba]

The only boom that I have seen golf related, in what seems to be the post-Tiger era... Top Golf. If you haven't been to one yet, they seem to be packed all the time, with a pretty diverse crowd as well. Unfortunately, I don't see much crossover to help the equipment industry. Everybody there seems happy as they can be swinging the cheap, flimsy clubs provided. It hits all the key areas for the younger crowd - good food, good drinks, 2-3 hours at the most. I dont know how this can help traditional golf, but if I was incharge, I would be taking a close look at their success.

[Jack Pearsall]

Gladiator Golf.

 

[jpdx]

The only boom that I have seen golf related, in what seems to be the post-Tiger era... Top Golf. If you haven't been to one yet, they seem to be packed all the time, with a pretty diverse crowd as well. Unfortunately, I don't see much crossover to help the equipment industry. Everybody there seems happy as they can be swinging the cheap, flimsy clubs provided. It hits all the key areas for the younger crowd - good food, good drinks, 2-3 hours at the most. I dont know how this can help traditional golf, but if I was incharge, I would be taking a close look at their success.

 

my brother in law went to one in Austin and was talking about how cool the experience was. not only the experience, but the atmosphere. Fast forward 4 years or so and they built one locally. I've been once and it's a ton of fun. It's not the same type of fun but there was a huge diverse crowd. we ended up there for a birthday party and took 2.5hrs to get two bays next to each other for 16 of us (not everyone played). food was surprisingly good. drinks left something to be desired but overall they were fine. I've run into people who never played golf, but are interested now in trying to get out on course as they really enjoyed top golf.

[chippa13]

In an article I read this morning in GOLF.com, Jack Nicklaus says President Trump will be great for golf. Not trying to break the politics rule here, but what could a President Trump do to rejuvenate golf?

 

Strangely enough, I've now played 2 courses played by US presidents; Hyannisport - JFK and Doral. Really didn't see that second one coming.

 

To rejuvenate the game? It seems to be doing just fine around New England.

[TomWishon]

In an article I read this morning in GOLF.com, Jack Nicklaus says President Trump will be great for golf. Not trying to break the politics rule here, but what could a President Trump do to rejuvenate golf?

 

There's a better than even chance it could harm the growth of golf.

 

At least 60 million people who voted against him are not likely to ever set foot on a Trump course or stay in a Trump hotel/resort. And for the other 60 million, if you look at demographics, that 60 million probably does not include all that many who are candidates for taking up the game or playing more.

 

Look at the PGA Tour. They chose to move one of their key events away from Trump Doral and when they did, they did not even have a venue lined up to take the tournament. Do you really suppose the PGA Tour would have moved away from one of the great venues in the game, a venue with decades of tour competition history, if they did not have some feeling that an association with Trump could be less than positive for their brand?

[2putttom]

In an article I read this morning in GOLF.com, Jack Nicklaus says President Trump will be great for golf. Not trying to break the politics rule here, but what could a President Trump do to rejuvenate golf?

 

There's a better than even chance it could harm the growth of golf.

 

At least 60 million people who voted against him are not likely to ever set foot on a Trump course or stay in a Trump hotel/resort. And for the other 60 million, if you look at demographics, that 60 million probably does not include all that many who are candidates for taking up the game or playing more.

 

Look at the PGA Tour. They chose to move one of their key events away from Trump Doral and when they did, they did not even have a venue lined up to take the tournament. Do you really suppose the PGA Tour would have moved away from one of the great venues in the game, a venue with decades of tour competition history, if they did not have some feeling that an association with Trump could be less than positive for their brand?

 

Nicklaus shades to the right anyway and always has.

:cheesy: ............ :dntknw: oh wait there might be some truth to this....

[TomWishon]

 

If there were one thing I would like to see change, it's the building of more Pitch & Putt courses. These little courses allow players to work on a very important part of the game, yet not spend so much time doing it. They are also less frustrating because shorter shots are needed. Beginners can usually get the ball closer to their intended target and rarely loose a ball. Friendly competitions are often quite fun at these courses and can initiate the interest to move on to normal sized courses when the time comes.

 

BT

 

I'm told by a friend who lives in The Villages in Florida that there are far more executive and par 3 courses in The Villages than there are regulation courses. He says the pitch and putt courses are busier too. And you're talking baby boomers who grew the game to its highest level of participation between the 60s and 90s and were not bothered by the time to play, the difficultly to learn it, and the cost to play. If they are drawn more to taking less time to play and easier shot making, what's that say about the chances of the millenials ever falling in love with the game !

[ChipNRun]

On 11/8/2016 at 10:18 AM, melo said:

We saw a period of unsustainable growth for about a decade (1995-2005) that coincided with huge technology moves and Tiger. During that time we tried to grow the game and branch out everywhere. We wanted children to play, old people, black people, asian people, latinos, middle aged guys, women, retirees, etc. And for a while, they did play. The went out and bought equipment, they hit the courses.

 

An aggravating factor during this general time period was the explosion of residential golf communities. This was what economists call a technological discontinuity, an industry innovation that seriously shakes up the old way of doing business. Discontinuities often are triggered by industry outsiders, in this case real estate moguls from outside of golfdom.

 

In a late 1990s interview, Arnold Palmer blamed outsiders who "didn't really love golf" with almost wrecking the game with residential-tied overbuilding.

 

The residential golf community model greatly exaggerated the number of peopld who wanted to have (back then) a $400K home along ths side of a fairway. The general plan followed one of two vectors:

1. Make a luxurious course that developers would take private immediately.
2. Build a topnotch challenge course that developers would take private after initially supporting it with semi-private pricing model.

The latter days coincided with good economic times in the USA. A veteran golf pro told me how it worked about the year 2000.

 

"I would sit at the pro-shop counter, ringing up $300 foursome greens fees as fast as my arm could move the credit cards."

 

Then the financial crisis/subprime crisis of 2008 hit. Suddenly, monied golfers were losing their jobs, and others were reluctant to run out for 18 holes on Wednesday afternoon for fear the boss would see they were not indespensible.

 

The veteran pro said that due to too many golf courses, the post-2008 landscape saw courses having to cut greens fees from $75 to say $60 a round - with plenty of deadspace between foursomes. He said that in some weeks, they drew in less than half the greens-fee revenues of circa-2000 heydey.

 

Around 2010, you see that golf course closures are significantly exceeding new course openings. Economists call this a shakeout - the exit of less-competitive players from an overheated industry.

 

 

Edited February 17 by ChipNRun
Spelling.

[Lobsterzilla]

7 years later...

[Bad9]

1 hour ago, ChipNRun said:

 

An aggravating factor during this general time period was the explosion of residential golf communities. This was what economists call a technological discontinuity, an industry innovation that seriously shakes up the old way of doing business. Discontinuities often are triggered by industry outsiders, in this case real estate moguls from outside of golfdom.

 

In a late 1990s interview, Arnold Palmer blamed outsiders who "didn't really love golf" with almost wrecking the game with residential-tied overbuilding.

 

The residential golf community model greatly exaggerated the number of peopld who wanted to have (back then) a $400K home along ths side of a fairway. The general plan followed one of two vectors:

1. Make a luxurious course that developers would take private immediately.
2. Build a topnotch challenge course that developers would take private after initially supporting it with semi-private pricing model.

The latter days coincided with good economic times in the USA. A veteran golf pro told me how it worked about the year 2000.

 

"I would sit at the pro-shop counter, ringing up $300 foursome greens fees as fast as my arm could move the credit cards."

 

Then the financial crisis/subprime crisis of 2008 hit. Suddenly, monied golfers were losing their jobs, and others were reluctant to run out for 18 holes on Wednesday afternoon for fear the boss would see they were not indespensible.

 

The veteran pro said that due to too many golf courses, the post-2008 landscape saw courses having to cut greens fees from $75 to say $60 a round - with plenty of deadspace between foursomes. He said that in some weeks, they drew in less than half the greens-fee revenues of circa-2000 heydey.

 

Around 2010, you see that golf course closures are significantly exceeding new course openings. Economists call this a shakeout - the exit of less-competitive players from an overheated industry.

 

 

Didn’t Palmer build his fair share of residential golf courses

[Lobby]

What would rejuvenate the golf industry?

 

- more muni courses?

 

- cheaper equipment?

 

-  cheaper tickets to pro events?

 

- cheaper food, drink, and clothing at pro events?

 

- and the big one: cheaper golf balls?

[ChipNRun]

5 hours ago, Bad9 said:

Didn’t Palmer build his fair share of residential golf course

 

Not sure what  you mean by fair share. Palmer courses in our Illinois area are public, and quite a few are resort courses. Also, Palmer's Design group mad early entry into course design in mainland China.

 

If you want to do an item count on how many of each type of course Palmer Design built, go for it. Maybe make a table of how many of each...

6 hours ago, Lobsterzilla said:

7 years later...

Yes, circa 2017, the shakeout was pretty well over in the St. Louis area. Supply-demand balance had been restored.

[st1800e]

I’ve played a lot of golf for a long time.
 

 I often heard these in social settings when Golf came up in the conversation;

 

In the ‘70’s,“I’ve never played golf”.  

In the ‘80’s, “I tried it but I didn’t like it, takes too long”.
In the ‘90s, I play, let me tell you about my game, where do you play? 

In the early 2000’s, I hit one 300 yards! 
2008-09, silence.  
Early 2010’s,  What’s going on with Tiger!?

2015, pickleball?

2019 Tiger’s back! 

2021, Can’t get a tee time!  
 

Now , “I’ve got a new driver, set of irons, putter etc., they’re the latest! Saw them on xxx forum! And xxx uses them!  got an unbelievable deal from my buddy, he’s a rep!  With my new bag I can sneak 12 beer into it! , and my new Bluetooth speaker, you can hear it 3 fairways over!   Unbelievable! 
 

And did you see that Phoenix open? Whoa , I’d never do that! 
 

Not sure what “rejuvenate” means in the golf industry, or who can control that, seems to do it all by itself.    

 

[mantan]

Holy Zombie Thread, Batman. Though this old thread shows you how you never know how life is going to turn out. The industry was revitalized by a global pandemic that drove a lot of people back to the game.  Then was fueled (IMO) by a surge in social media content that generated ongoing excitement about the sport and a sneaky good economy that has kept demand strong despite significant green fee prices.

Edited February 18 by mantan

[st1800e]

15 minutes ago, mantan said:

Holy Zombie Thread, Batman.

Or Holy Lazarus Thread!  Zombies are just the walking Dead…😉

 

No Doubt about your other points, our society has become increasingly affluent where a $700 driver and $250 green fees are,

no problem.  
 

In the ‘70’s a Ping Anser, the latest and greatest, was $29… about a days work for the average retail worker.  
 

 

 

 

[pjc]

45 minutes ago, mantan said:

Holy Zombie Thread, Batman. Though this old thread shows you how you never know how life is going to turn out. The industry was revitalized by a global pandemic that drove a lot of people back to the game.  Then was fueled (IMO) by a surge in social media content that generated ongoing excitement about the sport and a sneaky good economy that has kept demand strong despite significant green fee prices.

🤣🤣🤣

 

Edited February 18 by pjc

[iNeedMoreGolf]

9 hours ago, Lobsterzilla said:

7 years later...

And we thought spongebobs 3 years later in french voice was long and funny.

[Dpavs]

 

6 hours ago, mantan said:

Holy Zombie Thread, Batman. Though this old thread shows you how you never know how life is going to turn out. The industry was revitalized by a global pandemic that drove a lot of people back to the game.  Then was fueled (IMO) by a surge in social media content that generated ongoing excitement about the sport and a sneaky good economy that has kept demand strong despite significant green fee prices.

 

Yeah this ^^^

 

The only thing that has closed courses around where I live is poor management and poor maintenance. As far as equipment I have a good friend who is a one of the largest green grass online sellers in the country and they just had one of their best years ever... so there is no lack of sales going on for those that are doing it right. I think this thread can go back to sleep now.

[caniac6]

The biggest boost to golf was a worldwide pandemic when golf became one of the few things people could safely do.

[Pnwpingi210]

1 hour ago, caniac6 said:

The biggest boost to golf was a worldwide pandemic when golf became one of the few things people could safely do.

Agree with this.  2016-2019 season I had zero problems finding tee times any day of the week.  Post 2021 it’s a battle and requires planning.  Also price has increased 20-30% during peak times, with some outliers increasing more.

 

the game has grown, let’s see some initiatives to increase capacity.

[boggyman]

Lower prices on equipment would be nice, but we know it’s not happening!! 

Edited February 18 by boggyman

[TNwanabe]

Hey guys I have an idea to revitalize the game: Lets make the ball SHORTER!!!!!!!! Yeah!!!!!! Lets make everyone hit it less far!!!!! That will do it!!!!! Genius!

[Flyers99]

I agree that products just don’t improve much year to year.  With the economy, maybe people are holding into clubs longer.  I know I am.  I am not spending $1200 on an iron set to gain 2 yards of distance and minimal anything else. I am not sure what the can do from an engineering stand point? 
 

Maybe OEM’s should take a page out of PXG and offer some sort of “value” line of clubs.  This kinda was done by some In the o
 

I think customizing is big too and should be encouraged.  

[Golfinfloridaafter40]

Slowing the product cycle is the only thing that can help the club industry. I realize you said products, which is pretty broad but I am so sick of 7 new TM and Callaway drivers every year that don't do anything that the ones from 3 years ago don't do.  Only way its stops, is if we all band together and stop buying the hype. 

 

This is one reason I tend to support Titleist and the few other manufacturers that have 2 year club cycles

Edited February 18 by Golfinfloridaafter40

[Ghostwedge]

1 hour ago, boggyman said:

Lower prices on equipment would be nice, but we know it’s not happening!! 

Not trying g to diminish your thought on lower equipment prices but a person can tee it up with a used set of name brand clubs including putter and ball for under$400 easily. That's not a bad way to go for the occasional or beginner golfer.

[Ghostwedge]

8 hours ago, Dpavs said:

 

 

Yeah this ^^^

 

The only thing that has closed courses around where I live is poor management and poor maintenance. As far as equipment I have a good friend who is a one of the largest green grass online sellers in the country and they just had one of their best years ever... so there is no lack of sales going on for those that are doing it right. I think this thread can go back to sleep now.

We've had 4-5 nice small town private and public owned courses shut down the past few years in our area because the owners kid's didn't want to do the work to keep them up and open. And a few more sold out to real estate development.

[boggyman]

57 minutes ago, Ghostwedge said:

Not trying g to diminish your thought on lower equipment prices but a person can tee it up with a used set of name brand clubs including putter and ball for under$400 easily. That's not a bad way to go for the occasional or beginner golfer.

I agree and do know there’s ways to navigate around the new price points but “new” equipment has become ridiculous. For instance, I snagged a used 17* OG RBZ that’s as good as any $400 fairway wood on the rack today I bet. I’ve got more in the new grips on my irons than I paid for the irons originally when I bought them. We both know where I’m coming from though. 

Edited February 18 by boggyman

[JAM01]

Ok- pandemic, YouTube “influencers,”

real or perceived tech improvements in clubs and balls.