ANA rules issue (Merged)

[QEight]

Seems some EU people thinks this is ok?? Guys how many times in our big soccer leagues, every damn week the judge misses a penalty, sees the wrong thing and yet his words are final? Thats ok but this is not? Are you for real?

 

Almost everybody has agreed what happened was very unfortunate, for everybody, the players, LPGA, the golf etc.

 

Rules and procedures can be changed, but currently the rules leave not much room to move.

[Hogan's Cardy]

Just stupid. 4 shot penalty for that? If she got 1 shot penalty for that misstake, but 4? Golf really is a silly stupid game sometimes. I don't care that someone call it in. That's not the problem. The problem is the ruling. People who can't see that a 4 shot penalty is absurd are just blind. Also, what would happen if we watched ice hockey and all of the sudden the other team got a goal dismissed in the end of the game becuse someone call in on a high stick prior to a goal from the first period. No it wouldn't happen becuse ice hockey is a sport. If golf want to be a sport and not just some silly game, s*** like this needs to end.

 

Rules are rules. End of. Stop moaning

 

Rules are indeed rules but when events occur that reveal them to be ridiculous & harmful to the game maybe it's a good idea to have a bit of a moan so that they can be changed for the better? Or are we as a species just a subserviant group of walkovers who'll put up with anything without a fuss? That's now 2 majors blighted by rules infringements in 10 months, it shouldn't be the focus.

 

I hope they do fix the armchair caller problem, the coverage of golf is not like other sports and naturally those at the sharp end receive the bulk of airtime. It's not proportionate to the whole field and it should be left to tournament officals, players and caddies to deal with this stuff. Frankly anyone who calls in should be embarrassed to get involved with it.

[tannyhoban]

So, theoretically, since the infraction occurred yesterday, could I call in something I saw today for the person who won, and tomorrow they assess the penalty and take away the trophy and give it to Lexi?

 

Allowing people to call in is the dumbest thing in sports.

 

I don't think you can call in or email an infraction once you sign your card after the tournament has concluded

 

After the day's competition or after the tournament?

 

Do yourself a favor and read Rule 34. You'll then know the real answer and not the bogus ones proffered by those who don't know the Rules.

 

Which goes to show it was a much simpler game when it started with 13.

[SlowRain]

Sucks for Lexi, but I didn't really like that GC made the ruling the focal point to start off the interview with So Yeon Ryu. Yeah, it was a REALLY unfortunate way to win/lose a major, but it didn't seem like So Yeon Ryu get any credit for winning.

 

All the obvious aside...I don't hold So Yeon Ryu in any contempt for winning...she didn't cause or create any of this. That said, her interview with Lisa right after winning? She took a major mudslide in my opinion. Her comment was that "Lexi is American so all the Americans were cheering for her" and then that she was sure people in Korea were cheering for me.

 

Are you friggen kidding me???? She actually thought this was about nationalism? I can pretty much bet that had So Yeon Ryu been in Lexi's shoes, the crowds would have been cheering for her, regardless of who she was playing against.

 

I think someone has a lot to learn about people.

[Jwin323]

PGA, LPGA, USGA,R&A--- just don't take the call. I wouldn't even know who to call in these situations.How many infractions are made by players who are not on TV? This whole incident seems counter to what the proposed rule changes are looking to accomplish. I guess the LPGA should be happy that anyone was paying such close attention to their product.

[Holy Moses]

Kinda surprised no one saw the penalty in real time

[Shankieboink]

Just stupid. 4 shot penalty for that? If she got 1 shot penalty for that misstake, but 4? Golf really is a silly stupid game sometimes. I don't care that someone call it in. That's not the problem. The problem is the ruling. People who can't see that a 4 shot penalty is absurd are just blind. Also, what would happen if we watched ice hockey and all of the sudden the other team got a goal dismissed in the end of the game becuse someone call in on a high stick prior to a goal from the first period. No it wouldn't happen becuse ice hockey is a sport. If golf want to be a sport and not just some silly game, s*** like this needs to end.

 

Rules are rules. End of. Stop moaning

 

"Rules are rules." People following blindly are scary stuff. You are in a desperate need of a common sense injection. You didn't understand my analogy on ice hockey so no point to contnue this with you. What I can say is that if "rules are rules" they really aren't followed. Every round of golf on tour, players doesn't mark their ball correctly. And depending on how good your meassuring device is, no one ever does.

[larssonlegend]

I doubt Thompson did it on purpose but anyone wanting to avoid a green imperfection or spike mark may do exactly what Thompson did. So rules are rules is the right phrase , they have to be blanket adhered to and not bypassed becasue the golfer is thought to be a good person. It's tough but correct decision.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Call ins are total BS and make the sport look bad.

 

But she did something that is a pet peeve that wastes time and it bit her... she should have just putt the damn ball instead of marking and replacing. Too many weekend hacks learn these useless behaviors that just slow down the game.

[deadsolid...shank]

Nobody is in the right here, other than the eventual winner.

 

Lexi broke the rules, was punished accordingly, and to the letter of the law. 4 strokes may sound harsh, but that's the correct penalty. She was a bit silly, and paid the price.

 

The LPGA were in a no win situation, and I have to say I have a bit of sympathy for them. They had to act, and there wouldn't have been a right time to do it in the eyes of the public. This would be even worse if it was later discovered that they had brushed the matter under the carpet. They would have been accused of letting a home favourite break the rules in order to win, and Lexi's victory would either be tarnished forever, or taken away from her.

 

 

Mark,

 

In regards to them sweeping it under the carpet, here's my take on that from a few pages back:

 

I think there would be much less controversy if it came out that they didn't act on the email. It would have been very simple to say, "the notice came in too late and in the spirit of the game (a phrase that gets bandied about quite a bit) we felt it was not appropriate to take any action". "A judgment call on our part that we felt was in the best interest of the tournament and the game itself ".

 

 

[dukediv2011]

And people wonder why golf is a fledgling sport! This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen on golf. The person who called this in should be ashamed of him/herself.

 

[Aren]

I've read a lot of this thread prior to watching the replay, I had mistakenly assumed she marked the ball and walked off, not the case.

 

The change in ball position is blatant and would have been easier to explain had she backed off, she's marked it and then chosen a different spot to play the ball from.

 

Was it handled properly by the LPGA? Maybe not.

 

Has she done something wrong and is deserving of a penalty? Definitely.

My sentiments as well. But then, we're clearly in the minority here

[Warrick]

Nobody is in the right here, other than the eventual winner.

 

Lexi broke the rules, was punished accordingly, and to the letter of the law. 4 strokes may sound harsh, but that's the correct penalty. She was a bit silly, and paid the price.

 

The LPGA were in a no win situation, and I have to say I have a bit of sympathy for them. They had to act, and there wouldn't have been a right time to do it in the eyes of the public. This would be even worse if it was later discovered that they had brushed the matter under the carpet. They would have been accused of letting a home favourite break the rules in order to win, and Lexi's victory would either be tarnished forever, or taken away from her.

 

 

Mark,

 

In regards to them sweeping it under the carpet, here's my take on that from a few pages back:

 

I think there would be much less controversy if it came out that they didn't act on the email. It would have been very simple to say, "the notice came in too late and in the spirit of the game (a phrase that gets bandied about quite a bit) we felt it was not appropriate to take any action". "A judgment call on our part that we felt was in the best interest of the tournament and the game itself ".

 

So lie, cover up a "rules infraction", and just go on about our business.

 

Sounds like a wonderful idea. That never comes back to bite someone in the arse.....

 

The LPGA had no choice once notified. If they make an attempt to sweep it under the rug, it could have a much worse impact on the sport. The game is bigger than one person, or one tournament. Until rules are changed, or they cap things at the end of each round, this will happen.

[Froo Shon Tay]

Ryu beat her in a head to head in playoff hole. Ryu is the winner.

 

Can be looked at two ways.

 

Ryu had an unfair advantage because Lexi was beat down from the ruling (although she was pretty clutch with those birdies right after the ruling)

 

Lexi had an advantage because pretty much had the whole crowd rooting for Her. That's gotta be tough and lots of pressure for ryu.

 

Iooking back on the video I really think the other players ball marker threw Lexi and just by instinct moved it over a bit. That's what I saw at least.

 

 

[misplacedtexan83]

And I use to believe in the Golf Gods... not anymore.

 

It is a sad situation but it happen. Lexi will be stronger and through all the adversity she still had a chance.

 

Hats off to her.

[Vindog]

People are talking about the viewer input as if it from a person who knows nothing about golf, and/or the rules of golf. The reality is that person knows more about the rules of golf than 90% of the people k this thread. As I suspected initially, it was not some schmoe calling it in.

 

Sucks for Lexi and I feel for her, but was it a penalty or not? It would be worse in my mind if a major was won by a player who clearly broke a rule and should have been penalized. I prefer that golf be far different from other sports in that regard. No tournamnet committe wants that I'd guess.

 

Putting a rules official with every group watching every player isn't practical and then we would hear about how much slower everything is

Tough situation.

[warfelg]

Just stupid. 4 shot penalty for that? If she got 1 shot penalty for that misstake, but 4? Golf really is a silly stupid game sometimes. I don't care that someone call it in. That's not the problem. The problem is the ruling. People who can't see that a 4 shot penalty is absurd are just blind. Also, what would happen if we watched ice hockey and all of the sudden the other team got a goal dismissed in the end of the game becuse someone call in on a high stick prior to a goal from the first period. No it wouldn't happen becuse ice hockey is a sport. If golf want to be a sport and not just some silly game, s*** like this needs to end.

 

Rules are rules. End of. Stop moaning

 

Rules are indeed rules but when events occur that reveal them to be ridiculous & harmful to the game maybe it's a good idea to have a bit of a moan so that they can be changed for the better? Or are we as a species just a subserviant group of walkovers who'll put up with anything without a fuss? That's now 2 majors blighted by rules infringements in 10 months, it shouldn't be the focus.

 

I hope they do fix the armchair caller problem, the coverage of golf is not like other sports and naturally those at the sharp end receive the bulk of airtime. It's not proportionate to the whole field and it should be left to tournament officals, players and caddies to deal with this stuff. Frankly anyone who calls in should be embarrassed to get involved with it.

 

This is my problem with letting people call in. So now we know that Lexi did that, but what is Ryu did something Friday that was worthy of a penalty? She wasn't near the lead on Friday so no one could spot something on her.

 

This one bothers me much much more than any other one. They responded to an email that came in 24 hours after the infraction happened. They shouldn't have nailed her with the 4 stroke IMO. That was in poor taste by the LPGA IMO. And all the LPGA had to do to make that part ok, was state that she was assessed the 2 shot penalty because of playing from a different spot, but explain that because the infraction notification came from an outside source and since a new round had started in that time, no wrong scorecard penalty would be assessed.

 

That part just bothers me so much. Ugh just makes me sick to my stomach.

[Seamus_McDuff]

What she did was very similar to Chella Choi in 2014. The difference is Choi was notified the same day before signing.

 

Video in the link.

 

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2014/8/23/chella-choi-disagrees-with-penalty-wds-instead.html

[buckeyefl]

These call ins need to stop , period.

[warfelg]

People are talking about the viewer input as if it from a person who knows nothing about golf, and/or the rules of golf. The reality is that person knows more about the rules of golf than 90% of the people k this thread. As I suspected initially, it was not some schmoe calling it in.

 

Sucks for Lexi and I feel for her, but was it a penalty or not? It would be worse in my mind if a major was won by a player who clearly broke a rule and should have been penalized. I prefer that golf be far different from other sports in that regard. No tournamnet committe wants that I'd guess.

 

Putting a rules official with every group watching every player isn't practical and then we would hear about how much slower everything is

Tough situation.

 

I think it's more the timing of how long it took than being a penalty itself.

 

What if the LPGA didn't see that email until Lexi was on 16, 17, or 18 and still did it too her? These things should need to be resolved on the day of the incident. Or make it clear that there will be no wrong scorecard penalty if a new round has started by the time the infraction was called in. That's the part that should bother everyone. Because know if you see something Thursday early and don't email until Sunday, they have to penalize because of precedent. But if this happens Sunday on 17, you have to get that in before they finish because they won't take these calls/emails after the event is over.

 

It's just bad bad ju-ju in my opinion in setting this precedent on the LPGA that now you can call in/email in infractions well after the fact.

 

Like I said above -

Go ahead end penalize the infraction. That's fine. The wrong scorecard penalty is what was crappy IMO. Don't do that to someone when a penalty is called in after the fact. No other sport allows a score to change well after the fact, and that's been argued to death. Because my view of it was she didn't really sign an incorrect scorecard if you ask me. She didn't know about the penalty and forget to add it in. The penalty was assessed after the rules official and her playing competitor said it was a good scorecard, so either you penalize all of them somehow, or you suck it up, and say that she get's the two stroke and there is no wrong scorecard penalty because there was no way to know at the time she was signing an incorrect scorecard.

[DrRob1963]

People are talking about the viewer input as if it from a person who knows nothing about golf, and/or the rules of golf. The reality is that person knows more about the rules of golf than 90% of the people k this thread. As I suspected initially, it was not some schmoe calling it in.

 

Sucks for Lexi and I feel for her, but was it a penalty or not? It would be worse in my mind if a major was won by a player who clearly broke a rule and should have been penalized. I prefer that golf be far different from other sports in that regard. No tournamnet committe wants that I'd guess.

 

Putting a rules official with every group watching every player isn't practical and then we would hear about how much slower everything is

Tough situation.

This is a major! One of the top tourneys of the LPGA season.

They've got a scorer with every group.

They've got a scoreboard holder with every group.

Hell - they've even got a bunker raker with every group.

They can have a rules official with every group!

[deadsolid...shank]

Nobody is in the right here, other than the eventual winner.

 

Lexi broke the rules, was punished accordingly, and to the letter of the law. 4 strokes may sound harsh, but that's the correct penalty. She was a bit silly, and paid the price.

 

The LPGA were in a no win situation, and I have to say I have a bit of sympathy for them. They had to act, and there wouldn't have been a right time to do it in the eyes of the public. This would be even worse if it was later discovered that they had brushed the matter under the carpet. They would have been accused of letting a home favourite break the rules in order to win, and Lexi's victory would either be tarnished forever, or taken away from her.

 

 

Mark,

 

In regards to them sweeping it under the carpet, here's my take on that from a few pages back:

 

I think there would be much less controversy if it came out that they didn't act on the email. It would have been very simple to say, "the notice came in too late and in the spirit of the game (a phrase that gets bandied about quite a bit) we felt it was not appropriate to take any action". "A judgment call on our part that we felt was in the best interest of the tournament and the game itself ".

 

So lie, cover up a "rules infraction", and just go on about our business.

 

Sounds like a wonderful idea. That never comes back to bite someone in the arse.....

 

The LPGA had no choice once notified. If they make an attempt to sweep it under the rug, it could have a much worse impact on the sport. The game is bigger than one person, or one tournament. Until rules are changed, or they cap things at the end of each round, this will happen.

 

Did I say lie? Don't add words to what I said to fit your argument. The LPGA is in charge, it's their tournament. Of course they had a choice. Just like the Masters had a choice at their tournament.

 

I clearly said they should acknowledge it and and then take an action that fits the situation better. Which if you've read any of the thread other than just my post is clearly the consensus opinion.

 

Do you think the field would have protested? No, because they don't want to be the next person who gets dinged a day, or two, or three later from a living room referee.

 

Do you think the golf fans would have protested? No, because they also realize the absurdity of a called infraction being applied retroactively.

 

Who would have protested it? Other than the rules forum people?

 

 

[justasgood]

2 stroke for playing from wrong spat. Agreed. However, if notified at that point, incorrect score is not an issue. How do they justify next day adjustment causing incorrect score card?

[bullie76]

While it sucks and I hate it, I just watched it in real speed, and she totally knew what she was doing.

 

You think she totally knew she was breaking the rule and did it anyway? You're saying she intentionally cheated which is BS.

[chris975d]

The part that I think is really, really stupid is that if this "violation" had been discovered today, nothing at all would have happened because competition has closed.

 

So if there is an unnoticed rules violation on Sunday, but not noticed until Monday, ehh...so what? Can't change the outcome of the event after it's closed.

 

Is Sunday not as important of a day as the other 3?

 

Think about that one for a while. If that doesn't prove that this call in stuff should be halted, and scores are complete and legit at the close of the round, then I don't know what does.

[rodders]

How hard is it to put the ball back on the same spot especially when it is lifted a couple of inches off the ground. Nobody else seemed to be troubled replacing the ball during the tournament did they?

 

And for all those worried it was the day after Lexi was told, (also as soon as the LPGA had made their ruling), would you prefer to see a time limit introduced where you can break the rules but not worry after say 20 mins, 3 hours or something? Player was notified during tournament therefore takes the penalty. Balling rolling in an unfilled divot in middle of fairway not much fun either but you don't get to pick which rules you play by do you.

[Hogan's Cardy]

How hard is it to put the ball back on the same spot especially when it is lifted a couple of inches off the ground. Nobody else seemed to be troubled replacing the ball during the tournament did they?

 

And for all those worried it was the day after Lexi was told, (also as soon as the LPGA had made their ruling), would you prefer to see a time limit introduced where you can break the rules but not worry after say 20 mins, 3 hours or something? Player was notified during tournament therefore takes the penalty. Balling rolling in an unfilled divot in middle of fairway not much fun either but you don't get to pick which rules you play by do you.

 

We don't know because we don't see every group play every hole do we?

 

This is the problem.

[dpb5031]

In terms of the ruling, although correct as the current rules stand, I think most agree that a 4 stroke penalty is ridiculous overkill. The rules get revisited and revised periodically, and perhaps that's what should happen here.

 

BTW, when replacing a marked ball, how accurate must you be. Is there any margin for error in the rule? Precise blade of grass, exact satellite global positioning coordinates?

 

Clearly she did not replace the ball to its exact location, but how often is the ball replaced in the EXACT location by anyone? How about if you're a millimeter off, just a blade of grass one way or the other? What's the standard? Hi def slow motion TV I suppose...

[Golfjack]

We'll never know what she really was thinking when she moved that ball. Maybe it was unintentional (and really the non confrontational way to put it is unintentional) or intentional, but the result is that it moved by quite a large margin. If you mark a ball, pick it up, hold it in your hand and check the line etc, and then put it down off by an inch, I'd say it's pretty likely to happen since there was quite a large movement standing up and down etc. But really I would put the coin directly in line with the ball and hole, so it's unlikely especially at that distance but I digress. Since she just picked it up and put it down immediately only with a slight rotation of the ball alignment, it just looks like she moved it intentionally. She's a good enough athlete that she can't know that she put down the coin at an angle, and the put the ball down directly in line.

 

Maybe there was a lot of pressure at that time who knows. We'll never know and it doesn't matter because as the rules official said it's not intent. It happened. I can't hit a ball into a hazard and say don't count the penalty because I didn't mean to.

[SheriffBooth]

The dumbest thing here, imo, is the two stroke penalty for failing to include penalty strokes on her scorecard that she didn't know she had incurred. If the Rules Committee believes she was cheating, then she should be DQ'ed. If the Rules Committee believes this was an honest mistake, then the two strokes they are assessing a day later in the middle of the round is penal enough. 6-6(d) needs to be reexamined.

 

I also question whether, in this circumstance, she truly played from the "wrong place". Here it appears there was perhaps a centimeter's difference in where she placed the ball, and the Committee thought that was enough. But I would not have faulted the Committee for looking at that tape and determining that the difference was negligible, it was not the "wrong place" in this circumstance and that no penalty should be incurred.