ANA rules issue (Merged)

[Vindog]

By this standard, when is a tournament over? Can someone get infraction footage from a year (or many years) ago and change the results?

 

No. But there are some rare instances where a player can be penalized after the close of competition.

 

 

[lumberman2462]

Somebody besides Lexi wins, they become LPGA Goalby??

 

Ouch...can you imagine this being a players first major? They might even engrave the asterisk on the trophy.

[sui generis]

Relevant Decision:

 

Decision 18/4 Television Evidence Shows Ball at Rest Changed Position But by Amount Not Reasonably Discernible to Naked Eye

Q. A player addresses his ball. He observes a slight motion of the ball but believes that it has only oscillated and has not left its original position. He therefore plays the ball as it lies. Later, the Committee becomes aware from television evidence that the ball had in fact left its position and come to rest in another place, although that change of position was such that it was not reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time of the incident. What is the ruling?

 

A. The ball is deemed not to have moved and therefore there is no penalty under Rule 18-2. The Definition of "Moved" - when a ball "leaves its position and comes to rest in any other place" - does not contemplate movements of the ball that are only discernible through the use of high definition television or any other form of sophisticated technology.

 

When determining whether or not his ball at rest has moved, a player must make that judgment based on all the information readily available to him at the time, so that he can determine whether the ball must be replaced under Rule 18-2 or another applicable Rule. When the player's ball has left its original position and come to rest in another place by an amount that was not reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time, a player's determination that the ball has not moved will be deemed to be conclusive, even if that determination is later shown to be incorrect through the use of sophisticated technology.

 

On the other hand, if the Committee determines, based on all of the evidence it has available, that the ball changed its position by an amount that was reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time, the ball is deemed to have moved. As the player did not replace the ball, he incurs a penalty under the applicable Rule and Rule 20-7c for playing from a wrong place.

 

These principles apply to any review of technological evidence by the Committee, whether before the player makes his next stroke or any time thereafter. These principles also apply in a situation in which the player made no determination whether or not his ball at rest moved (e.g., because he had walked away from his ball after addressing it, was not looking at his ball, or otherwise did not observe any motion of the ball or have any reason to believe that his ball might have moved).

 

Before determining whether his ball has moved, it is advisable for the player to obtain information from nearby witnesses to the incident and to seek guidance from a referee if one is immediately available.

 

But this isnt about the ball moving, its about marking and replacing. Atleast as i understand it.

Rule 20

 

20-3 If a ball to be replaced is placed other than on the spot from which it was lifted or moved

and the error is not corrected as provided in Rule 20-6, the player incurs the general penalty, loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play, for a breach of the applicable Rule.20-6

 

20-6 A ball incorrectly substituted, dropped or placed in a wrong place or otherwise not in accordance with the Rules but not played may be lifted, without penalty, and the player must then proceed correctly.

 

The Decision would be referred to when the question of video is germaine.

[Strike Force]

How close is close enough? What is the definition of 'exact' in the rules? This rule is broken in every single LPGA, PGA and Euro tournament round ever played!

[mosesgolf]

If someone else besides Lexi wins they'd better not jump in the water.

[lumberman2462]

By this standard, when is a tournament over? Can someone get infraction footage from a year (or many years) ago and change the results?

 

No. But there are some rare instances where a player can be penalized after the close of competition.

 

Vin...I did not know that. Please share if you can think of any scenarios.

[SlowRain]

The biggest load of total BS. I hope the USGA passes the rule that prevents this kind of asinine behavior from happening. Bad enough to call in from home...but calling in 24 hours after the fact? Total crap. I get the rules are the rules...but it's bias as what about the non-intentional violations by players who aren't under the cameras because they aren't contending? Seems like there is a bias there because if you're leading or contending...all the home referees have access. If you're not then you're under the radar. Goydos said it best...that rule is violated every time you mark the ball.

 

If I won a tournament like this...I would NOT be jumping in the pond...after all you didn't win it...you got a BS gift from a home based umpire...and that is no way to really win. If I didn't win it because I was the best, but because of BS misfortune...then it's a hollow victory.

[Forged4ever]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2701433-lexi-thompson-penalized-4-strokes-after-viewer-email-tiger-woods-responds

 

Have a great week Gals & Gents :)

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends ⛳️

RP

[lowheel]

Telling her about the penalty was the most cringe-inducing thing I've seen in sports in a while.

 

Just like when the rules official put his arm on Dustin Johnsons shoulder after the 18th a whistling straits to tell him he grounded his club in a "bunker". Disgusting

 

[ode1]

Hell, at one time she'd be DQd for signing an incorrect card

 

At least that rule was changed.

 

If someone is able to call in after a scorecard is signed and there is no intentional cheating, then the player ought to be able amend the card after the round, allowing for a 2 stroke penalty. The UsGA is incapable of using common sense, so they enact another rule/decision to counteract a stupid rule to begin with, which is being dq'd for signing an incorrect scorecard because someone called in a day later. 4 strokes is not equitable based on what happened. The statute of limitations on a rules infraction should be over once a scorecard is signed, unless it's clearly intentional cheating..and I don't care how the information came to light!

[ksgolfcoach]

Ok now what if this happened on Sunday... Lexi wins, someone calls/emails on Monday, do we reverse the result and redo the entire winning ceremony? What happens than, or do they ignore it because the event is over.. this is absurd in all sorts of ways.

 

This is a great question

[bullie76]

Four frigging strokes for that? What a load of crap. I'm sick of this bs.

[KevCarter]

By this standard, when is a tournament over? Can someone get infraction footage from a year (or many years) ago and change the results?

 

No. But there are some rare instances where a player can be penalized after the close of competition.

 

Vin...I did not know that. Please share if you can think of any scenarios.

 

 

 

34-1. Claims and Penalties

 

a. Match Play

 

 

...

b. Stroke Play

 

 

In stroke play, a penalty must not be rescinded, modified or imposed after the competition has closed. A competition is closed when the result has been officially announced or, in stroke play qualifying followed by match play, when the player has teed off in his first match.

 

Exceptions: A penalty of disqualification must be imposed after the competition has closed if a competitor:

 

(i)

was in breach of Rule 1-3 (Agreement to Waive Rules); or

 

(ii)

returned a score card on which he had recorded a handicap that, before the competition closed, he knew was higher than that to which he was entitled, and this affected the number of strokes received (Rule 6-2b); or

 

(iii)

returned a score for any hole lower than actually taken (Rule 6-6d) for any reason other than failure to include one or more penalty strokes that, before the competition closed, he did not know he had incurred; or

 

(iv)

knew, before the competition closed, that he had been in breach of any other Rule for which the penalty is disqualification.

[Dave230]

I don't really have a major problem with the two shot penalty but hate the 4 shot penalty. If the same guy rings in yesterday then it's a two shot penalty and a correct scorecard. The double penalty for a late decision, although it's in the rules, is very unfair I think.

[rangersgoalie]

What a freaking shot

[Firegolf26]

Wow.... mental fortitude on that shot!

[sui generis]

Ok now what if this happened on Sunday... Lexi wins, someone calls/emails on Monday, do we reverse the result and redo the entire winning ceremony? What happens than, or do they ignore it because the event is over.. this is absurd in all sorts of ways.

 

This is a great question

Decision 34-1b/1 Omission of Penalty Stroke When Score Returned

 

Q. In stroke play, a competitor returned an incorrect score for a hole due to failure to include a penalty stroke. After the competition closed the error was discovered. Does Rule 34-1b allow imposition of a disqualification penalty for a breach of Rule 6-6d?

 

A. As stated in Rule 34-1b, the Committee should impose a penalty of disqualification if the competitor knew, before the competition closed, that he had incurred the penalty but intentionally or unintentionally failed to add the penalty to his score, but not if the competitor did not know he had incurred the penalty.

[masegolf1978]

Absolute disgrace.

[rangersgoalie]

Simple...reword the rule to read that the player must replace ball within one ball of coin. Just for the wiggle room. 1 inch will basically never change ANY putt.

 

Lexi needs to get it together

 

And nice job by the announcers staying quiet during that walk up 18

[jdl]

Lexi needs to get it together

 

Petterson needing relief might get her the time she needs.

[Diesel_z06]

Merging this thread and moving it from tour talk to the LPGA forum is just as bad as the call in ruling against Lexi.

[ablewalker]

I just saw the slow mo and it looked like she put it back in the right spot! What moron would call in with such garbage?! No other sport has to put up with such nonsense....how many Stanley Cups or World Series or SuperBowls have been won simply because of the wrong call by a ref that later proved to be wrong?

[Grantmur]

All class by Lexi and those fans

[Hawkeye77]

Merging this thread and moving it from tour talk to the LPGA forum is just as bad as the call in ruling against Lexi.

 

This is where it belongs.

[Petethreeput]

I don't watch the LPGA, but I don't have cable either, so forgive my opining on this, but the idea a rules judge at home can look at this in super slo-mo and call it in is embarrassing.

 

When I see it real time it is not enough. Sorry, but the USGA has made a mockery of itself.... again.

[Diesel_z06]

Merging this thread and moving it from tour talk to the LPGA forum is just as bad as the call in ruling against Lexi.

 

This is where it belongs.

 

Yea and technically Lexi deserves a 4 shot penalty, doesn't make it right!

 

.....lol

[Man_O_War]

Merging this thread and moving it from tour talk to the LPGA forum is just as bad as the call in ruling against Lexi.

 

i agree...this is tour issue

[gr00vetech]

I don't think Peterson took "complete relief" from the grand stand she just dropped from on 18. she could have hit it with her backswing no question. That is also a penalty

[ablewalker]

Merging this thread and moving it from tour talk to the LPGA forum is just as bad as the call in ruling against Lexi.

 

I agree... the mods on this site are control freak strange.

[rangersgoalie]

Well damn.....what a tough kid...playing with all that emotion and making three birdies