Could a Scratch Golfer break 85 at Augusta?

[bladehunter]

2 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

That was my point with the 75 yards per hole comment. Perhaps it would even be 90 yards per hole longer. Funny thing is a much derided forward tee scratch would find less trouble on most holes than would the longer player.  Bunkers would not be in play and as long as they played for the “break 85” score they would have little trouble. For most scratches it would be the ego of trying to go low that would break them. Playing more conservatively should make it easy-ish for a legit scratch.**

 

 

 

Like every single thread of this type I have read over the years here on wax there is one common refrain. Doesn’t matter if it’s the 4 handicap vs the lady or the scratch playing AN.  There are so many misperceptions about the handicap system.  People forget that the handicap is not a measure to par. It is to the course rating. I recall playing a Medinah  #3 multiple times and being struck by the idea a scratch player would average about 81 if he played the tips there.  78.3/152 7657 yards. That was 25 years ago and the tees most games were played from were 7007 yards and rated 75.3 147. First time I saw it I was a 0 cap and played with a Hooters Tour aspiring pro. I shot 81 from the back of every box.

  Not saying that proves anything about AN but again it’s just math. A scratch player, made from any tees but playing by the rules of golf.....not the vanity type @bladehuntermentioned.....is not going to somehow lose his game completely because it’s AN.

 

 

I will add this thought....a lot of the talk in these threads is why the modern young player does well on tour compared to the past. The old logic was it took a few years to settle in and their 30’s was there prime. Today’s players know it’s still just golf and AN is just a golf course.

Yep I agree 100 %.     I hope I made sense. I’m not saying a front tee scratch can’t. I’m saying that they seem to be the ones who think it can’t be done , and distance is the reason.  At least it seems to me that fear of longer distance is the lense that the naysayer is looking through.  

[oikos1]

15 hours ago, isaacbm said:

I’m just blown away by the caddy argument. Have you ever played golf with a  Caddy? Genuine question. The only thing that a caddy would help for me is to make it so that I’m not quite as tired carrying my own bag. That’s it. They’re not going to pick better lines for me or read the greens better than I do. I’ve literally played hundreds of tournament rounds of golf with a caddy and I don’t ask for their opinion on anything. It’s just nice to have somebody there to chat with especially if you’re playing with really intense competitors. But the only benefit I get is them simply carrying my bag and keeping my gear dry if it’s raining. It would never cross  my mind to ask a caddy to read the green for me or to tell me where to aim 
 

I mean I suppose it’s possible if you give me Tiger Woods caddy or Phil Mickelson‘s caddy they might save me a shot or two but six?! Six?

 

I’ll say this again, for most people who have never had a caddy, having one would probably add two or three shots to their round. Would make them second-guess their own decisions, would make them feel awkward or uncomfortable, would make them feel like they had somebody in their way and put them completely out of their regular routine. A caddy is not going to help you.

 

If a caddy is going to help me six strokes does that mean if I just had a caddy every day I would suddenly be a +6+7 handicap? 

I guess I pushed your caddy button. 😀  Once again, if we are following the original parameters, playing Augusta under the "stipulations": no caddie, no cart, no walking the course beforehand, and 1 hour warmup before the round. Sunday tournament conditions, from the back tees, no practice round and you don't think a caddy will help the scratch golfer (maybe not you) than we can put that one to rest.  Isaacbm doesn't need no stinking caddy.

 

I said nothing about a caddy everyday so don't know why that is even relevant as this is a "one time shot".  Unless, as has been the case for the last few pages, the goal posts have been moved yet again. 

 

I would fully expect a scratch, after 100 rounds as was suggested, to break 85 pretty consistently.  The one time round is the discussion, and it's been conceded that at least 1 out of 100 would most likely accomplish the challenge.  There's always a chance.  So perhaps the horse has been beaten enough.

 

A follow up question is under the OP's stipulations, what percentage of scratch could actually do it?   Put a hundred random scratch in a hat and pull out one scratch and that is the one that has to do it.  You taking that bet?  What percentage would you need to pull out of the hat to feel good that it can be done?

 

The premise of the OP's question underlies how bad would a scratch struggle and could they break 85 their first time out under the "stipulations", so are you betting everything you've got on that one random scratch out of 100?

[Teekman]

If we’re talking about a 0 handicap then I easily could see them shooting over 85 at Augusta their first try. Now once you get to the +2 territory then I’d fully expect them to break 85 no worries.

[cdnglf]

2 hours ago, oikos1 said:

I guess I pushed your caddy button. 😀  Once again, if we are following the original parameters, playing Augusta under the "stipulations": no caddie, no cart, no walking the course beforehand, and 1 hour warmup before the round. Sunday tournament conditions, from the back tees, no practice round and you don't think a caddy will help the scratch golfer (maybe not you) than we can put that one to rest.  Isaacbm doesn't need no stinking caddy.

 

I said nothing about a caddy everyday so don't know why that is even relevant as this is a "one time shot".  Unless, as has been the case for the last few pages, the goal posts have been moved yet again. 

 

I would fully expect a scratch, after 100 rounds as was suggested, to break 85 pretty consistently.  The one time round is the discussion, and it's been conceded that at least 1 out of 100 would most likely accomplish the challenge.  There's always a chance.  So perhaps the horse has been beaten enough.

 

A follow up question is under the OP's stipulations, what percentage of scratch could actually do it?   Put a hundred random scratch in a hat and pull out one scratch and that is the one that has to do it.  You taking that bet?  What percentage would you need to pull out of the hat to feel good that it can be done?

 

The premise of the OP's question underlies how bad would a scratch struggle and could they break 85 their first time out under the "stipulations", so are you betting everything you've got on that one random scratch out of 100?

 

 

Estimated rating of Augusta in Masters condition is 78.1.

How often does a scratch shoot <= course rating + 5.9?

Edited April 19, 2021 by cdnglf

[gioguy21]

11 minutes ago, cdnglf said:

 

 

Estimated rating of Augusta in Masters condition is 78.1.

How often does a scratch shoot <= course rating + 5.9?

just needs to be able to happen once for it to say it's possible...so...yea, it'd happen. 

[isaacbm]

3 hours ago, oikos1 said:

I guess I pushed your caddy button. 😀  Once again, if we are following the original parameters, playing Augusta under the "stipulations": no caddie, no cart, no walking the course beforehand, and 1 hour warmup before the round. Sunday tournament conditions, from the back tees, no practice round and you don't think a caddy will help the scratch golfer (maybe not you) than we can put that one to rest.  Isaacbm doesn't need no stinking caddy.

 

I said nothing about a caddy everyday so don't know why that is even relevant as this is a "one time shot".  Unless, as has been the case for the last few pages, the goal posts have been moved yet again. 

 

I would fully expect a scratch, after 100 rounds as was suggested, to break 85 pretty consistently.  The one time round is the discussion, and it's been conceded that at least 1 out of 100 would most likely accomplish the challenge.  There's always a chance.  So perhaps the horse has been beaten enough.

 

A follow up question is under the OP's stipulations, what percentage of scratch could actually do it?   Put a hundred random scratch in a hat and pull out one scratch and that is the one that has to do it.  You taking that bet?  What percentage would you need to pull out of the hat to feel good that it can be done?

 

The premise of the OP's question underlies how bad would a scratch struggle and could they break 85 their first time out under the "stipulations", so are you betting everything you've got on that one random scratch out of 100?

I would say if you put 100 on the golf course the day after the Masters I would expect at least 40 to break 85 under the original conditions. So I suppose in order for me to want to take any kind of bet  I would need to get a little better than 2 1/2 to 1 on my money. 

I would expect 95%to break 92. 

I would expect almost all of the scores to be between 80-92. 
I would be willing to bet probably $10,000 that more than 1  would break 80. 

Where would your cut off be? What would your number be that you would think at least 40% could shoot Under? 

I’m just curious how far apart we are....
 

 

[isaacbm]

The funny thing for me is that if I keep coming back to the original premise it just doesn’t seem that hard. Not at Augusta. Pick any golf major championship course that I’ve never played.  Or pick one that I have never seen on TV for 35 straight years and maybe we can have this discussion. But  at Augusta? I’ve seen the golf course from every angle for 35 straight years. I don’t think there’s a part of the golf course that I don’t know. 
 

I’ve  played courses 10 times where I can’t even remember some of the holes much less the green complexes. Augusta national on the other hand I’ve never played and I could draw you accurate Maps of every green complex  on the property. 
 

Is there one Tee shot out there that every person on this thread doesn’t know what line to take? Am I the only one out here with a  television and Google earth at my disposal?

 

I’ll concede  under the following conditions:

 

The scratch that we pick has  to be only from a municipal course who has somehow never played greens that run faster than eight. He has to not own a television or a computer. He has to never played any golf courses other than his own in his entire life. Never played for money, never played under pressure.  He has  to prove that he’s never watched the masters on TV or looked at the course under Google earth.

 

Under these ridiculous circumstances I would agree that he has next to zero chance of breaking 85 the first round he ever plays at Augusta under tournament conditions. 

[mahonie]

1 hour ago, isaacbm said:

The funny thing for me is that if I keep coming back to the original premise it just doesn’t seem that hard. Not at Augusta. Pick any golf major championship course that I’ve never played.  Or pick one that I have never seen on TV for 35 straight years and maybe we can have this discussion. But  at Augusta? I’ve seen the golf course from every angle for 35 straight years. I don’t think there’s a part of the golf course that I don’t know. 
 

I’ve  played courses 10 times where I can’t even remember some of the holes much less the green complexes. Augusta national on the other hand I’ve never played and I could draw you accurate Maps of every green complex  on the property. 
 

Is there one Tee shot out there that every person on this thread doesn’t know what line to take? Am I the only one out here with a  television and Google earth at my disposal?

 

I’ll concede  under the following conditions:

 

The scratch that we pick has  to be only from a municipal course who has somehow never played greens that run faster than eight. He has to not own a television or a computer. He has to never played any golf courses other than his own in his entire life. Never played for money, never played under pressure.  He has  to prove that he’s never watched the masters on TV or looked at the course under Google earth.

 

Under these ridiculous circumstances I would agree that he has next to zero chance of breaking 85 the first round he ever plays at Augusta under tournament conditions. 

My former boss (7 handicap) played at Wentworth the day after the PGA Championship and shot 80 (his handicap). This was the first year after the Els changes and the only difference to the Sunday tournament conditions was that the grandstands were being dismantled. He even eagled the much-maligned 18th which obviously helped.

[pinhigh27]

2 hours ago, isaacbm said:

The funny thing for me is that if I keep coming back to the original premise it just doesn’t seem that hard. Not at Augusta. Pick any golf major championship course that I’ve never played.  Or pick one that I have never seen on TV for 35 straight years and maybe we can have this discussion. But  at Augusta? I’ve seen the golf course from every angle for 35 straight years. I don’t think there’s a part of the golf course that I don’t know. 
 

I’ve  played courses 10 times where I can’t even remember some of the holes much less the green complexes. Augusta national on the other hand I’ve never played and I could draw you accurate Maps of every green complex  on the property. 
 

Is there one Tee shot out there that every person on this thread doesn’t know what line to take? Am I the only one out here with a  television and Google earth at my disposal?

 

I’ll concede  under the following conditions:

 

The scratch that we pick has  to be only from a municipal course who has somehow never played greens that run faster than eight. He has to not own a television or a computer. He has to never played any golf courses other than his own in his entire life. Never played for money, never played under pressure.  He has  to prove that he’s never watched the masters on TV or looked at the course under Google earth.

 

Under these ridiculous circumstances I would agree that he has next to zero chance of breaking 85 the first round he ever plays at Augusta under tournament conditions. 

I feel like by plugging yourself into the situation you are doing the exact same as your hypothetical muni scratch with a ton of exaggeration. In this situation you are literally as far away from joe random scratch as possible, an extreme outlier on one end of the spectrum. Most random scratch golfers aren’t looking up courses on google earth before they play and while watching the masters they aren’t thinking about the lines they’d take off the tee(not that i think that would even really translate well from tv anyway ). 
 

playing under pressure is also relative. Being a former pro is vastly different than random Joe’s playing in their 20 man club championships for 500 bucks or a county am. 
 

Scratch golfers shoot 7 over the rating all the time and IMO course ratings are often laughably inaccurate especially when there are unique factors that make them difficult. I find courses with difficult greens to be almost unilaterally underrated in difficulty with raw length vastly overemphasized. 
 

I would be surprised if 40 have a realistic shot after 9, ie they aren’t like 10 over and have to finish 2 over on the back to make it. I truly think there would be a ton of people near the greens in regulation and then just complete nuclear short game carnage

[Raving Shanker]

So how about a 22 handicapper?

[isaacbm]

7 hours ago, pinhigh27 said:

I feel like by plugging yourself into the situation you are doing the exact same as your hypothetical muni scratch with a ton of exaggeration. In this situation you are literally as far away from joe random scratch as possible, an extreme outlier on one end of the spectrum. Most random scratch golfers aren’t looking up courses on google earth before they play and while watching the masters they aren’t thinking about the lines they’d take off the tee(not that i think that would even really translate well from tv anyway ). 
 

playing under pressure is also relative. Being a former pro is vastly different than random Joe’s playing in their 20 man club championships for 500 bucks or a county am. 
 

Scratch golfers shoot 7 over the rating all the time and IMO course ratings are often laughably inaccurate especially when there are unique factors that make them difficult. I find courses with difficult greens to be almost unilaterally underrated in difficulty with raw length vastly overemphasized. 
 

I would be surprised if 40 have a realistic shot after 9, ie they aren’t like 10 over and have to finish 2 over on the back to make it. I truly think there would be a ton of people near the greens in regulation and then just complete nuclear short game carnage

Well I'm sure you're right to some degree.  But hyperbole and exaggeration is my forte!  It's completely possible that 

I'm not in tune with what the "average" scratch actually looks like.  I suppose it matters which colored glasses a person is 

wearing as to how they would view all of this. 

 

I have to go back to Obee's point about Timberlake though.  The US Open set up is certainly harder then the Masters every single year. 

Pretty impressive what he did for a mid single handicap with no experience playing under pressure. 

[Bye]

12 hours ago, isaacbm said:

I would say if you put 100 on the golf course the day after the Masters I would expect at least 40 to break 85 under the original conditions. So I suppose in order for me to want to take any kind of bet  I would need to get a little better than 2 1/2 to 1 on my money. 

I would expect 95%to break 92. 

I would expect almost all of the scores to be between 80-92. 
I would be willing to bet probably $10,000 that more than 1  would break 80. 

Where would your cut off be? What would your number be that you would think at least 40% could shoot Under? 

I’m just curious how far apart we are....
 

 

Out of the group of players you expect to break 85, is this a sub group/type of player I.e. the players with great short games etc? Or is it a cross section?

[tsecor]

 as a "scratch" golfer, you would have already had to break 85 there to be considerd a "scratch" player at that course.....

[oikos1]

18 hours ago, isaacbm said:

I would say if you put 100 on the golf course the day after the Masters I would expect at least 40 to break 85 under the original conditions. So I suppose in order for me to want to take any kind of bet  I would need to get a little better than 2 1/2 to 1 on my money. 

I would expect 95%to break 92. 

I would expect almost all of the scores to be between 80-92. 
I would be willing to bet probably $10,000 that more than 1  would break 80. 

Where would your cut off be? What would your number be that you would think at least 40% could shoot Under? 

I’m just curious how far apart we are....
 

 

👍  After reading your follow up post, you've pretty much convinced me to bet on you.

 

As for percentage to break 85, one thing we wouldn't know as it was never prescribed would be the wind conditions.  Wind comes and goes at Augusta and you can't always see the influence on television.  With no caddy, I would think your 40% would shrink to 20% or less.  I would have to believe that for a first time golfer on the course, having a caddy help (again, maybe not you) with greens, approach locations, proper misses and swirling wind gusts would add value to save the additional 5-6 strokes the random scratch is going to give up, which would most likely put them over 85.

 

 

[bladehunter]

10 hours ago, isaacbm said:

Well I'm sure you're right to some degree.  But hyperbole and exaggeration is my forte!  It's completely possible that 

I'm not in tune with what the "average" scratch actually looks like.  I suppose it matters which colored glasses a person is 

wearing as to how they would view all of this. 

 

I have to go back to Obee's point about Timberlake though.  The US Open set up is certainly harder then the Masters every single year. 

Pretty impressive what he did for a mid single handicap with no experience playing under pressure. 

I’ve never seen this elusive scratch player with no shortgame.  🤷‍♂️Weird concept. 
 

I think it all depends on what type course you grow up on , etc.  like how they wax poetic on how hard Bermuda rough is to play out of , or how poa greens are the devil.  California kids don’t fear poa and this Carolina boy would rather be on Bermuda both rough and greens.   Translation. I don’t like straight putts.  Lol.    Some folks love a good flat bent grass green.  All in perspective.  

[bladehunter]

18 hours ago, pinhigh27 said:

I feel like by plugging yourself into the situation you are doing the exact same as your hypothetical muni scratch with a ton of exaggeration. In this situation you are literally as far away from joe random scratch as possible, an extreme outlier on one end of the spectrum. Most random scratch golfers aren’t looking up courses on google earth before they play and while watching the masters they aren’t thinking about the lines they’d take off the tee(not that i think that would even really translate well from tv anyway ). 
 

playing under pressure is also relative. Being a former pro is vastly different than random Joe’s playing in their 20 man club championships for 500 bucks or a county am. 
 

Scratch golfers shoot 7 over the rating all the time and IMO course ratings are often laughably inaccurate especially when there are unique factors that make them difficult. I find courses with difficult greens to be almost unilaterally underrated in difficulty with raw length vastly overemphasized. 
 

I would be surprised if 40 have a realistic shot after 9, ie they aren’t like 10 over and have to finish 2 over on the back to make it. I truly think there would be a ton of people near the greens in regulation and then just complete nuclear short game carnage

Honest wonder.   I’ve read you say you’re +2. ( correct me if I’m wrong ).  Do you think you can do it ? If no why not ?  If yes then I don’t get the 2 shot swing as being the decider.  

[Shilgy]

23 hours ago, cdnglf said:

 

 

Estimated rating of Augusta in Masters condition is 78.1.

How often does a scratch shoot <= course rating + 5.9?

Probably 20% of the time or so? They should average about 2.5 to 3 strokes over the course rating on average with 20% or so averaging the course rating.

  Again, it’s just a golf course and it is just math. Build it up to be this mystical bastion of impossibleness and you’d have no chance. Just go play golf and the out of 100 players with a 0.0 index I would expect 10-20% of them to break 85 comfortably. Maybe more.

[Shilgy]

1 minute ago, bladehunter said:

Honest wonder.   I’ve read you say you’re +2. ( correct me if I’m wrong ).  Do you think you can do it ? If no why not ?  If yes then I don’t get the 2 shot swing as being the decider.  

Based on his comment that you replied to I am guessing he is intimidated by fast sloping greens. Players that are familiar with the concept play the extreme high line on breaking putts a la Crenshaw in his prime.

[pinhigh27]

17 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I’ve never seen this elusive scratch player with no shortgame.  🤷‍♂️Weird concept. 
 

I think it all depends on what type course you grow up on , etc.  like how they wax poetic on how hard Bermuda rough is to play out of , or how poa greens are the devil.  California kids don’t fear poa and this Carolina boy would rather be on Bermuda both rough and greens.   Translation. I don’t like straight putts.  Lol.    Some folks love a good flat bent grass green.  All in perspective.  

 No one said a scratch golfer with no short game , just that the short game challenges of playing at Augusta are vastly different and likely more difficult than average course and the landing spots to place your ball are microscopic compared to average course. 

theyre scratch golfers for a reason meaning their score range is probably like 70-85 on most standard rating set ups for let’s say 2 std deviation of rounds. That’s on a 72 rated course. Put them on one 78 and that’s now 76-91 and I still think that underestimates difficulty. 
 

 

 

[bladehunter]

2 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Based on his comment that you replied to I am guessing he is intimidated by fast sloping greens. Players that are familiar with the concept play the extreme high line on breaking putts a la Crenshaw in his prime.

And i get that which goes back to what I said earlier about it being dependent on what you’re accustomed to.  I learned on a course with no flat lies and no flat putts.  When I get on flat greens I try to find break when there isn’t any.  That takes me longer to adjust than any slope ever could.  I can take ground level pictures to show this if anybody doubts.  I play on some small brutally sloped greens. 
 

so i get it , if all you see is flat greens then it would be a culture shock.  

[pinhigh27]

11 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Honest wonder.   I’ve read you say you’re +2. ( correct me if I’m wrong ).  Do you think you can do it ? If no why not ?  If yes then I don’t get the 2 shot swing as being the decider.  

I think I could break 85, definitely.I also think I could shoot over 85(although not as likely as someone who is scratch). 

 

But I also think I could make quite a few dumb doubles or triples around the green if I hit a bad shot and get into a tough spot or hit a really poor putt and shoot above 85. I think the blow up potential with those greenside conditions is much higher than at a typical course where most good players are getting the ball greenside and rarely making worse than a bogey without penalty strokes. 

 

I don't think many are saying a scratch couldn't break 85, I just think it would be pretty uncommon and way less than 40/100. 

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by pinhigh27

[bladehunter]

4 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

 No one said a scratch golfer with no short game , just that the short game challenges of playing at Augusta are vastly different and likely more difficult than average course and the landing spots to place your ball are microscopic compared to average course. 

theyre scratch golfers for a reason meaning their score range is probably like 70-85 on most standard rating set ups for let’s say 2 std deviation of rounds. That’s on a 72 rated course. Put them on one 78 and that’s now 76-91 and I still think that underestimates difficulty. 
 

 

 

Sure. No doubt that slope would be a shock to the system for some.  But Augusta isn’t artificially sloped.  Most courses from that point in Georgia and north up to Tennessee line and over to Charlotte NC are sloped the same.  Anything in the foothills in GA SC and NC is like that.    So point taken.  I’m looking at it form the lense of living here.  From the outside it may well be a different animal.  

[bladehunter]

5 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

I think I could break 85, definitely.I also think I could shoot over 85(although not as likely as someone who is scratch). 

 

But I also think I could make quite a few dumb doubles or triples around the green if I hit a bad shot and get into a tough spot or hit a really poor putt and shoot above 85. I think the blow up potential with those greenside conditions is much higher than at a typical course where most good players are getting the ball greenside and rarely making worse than a bogey without penalty strokes. 

 

I don't think many are saying a scratch couldn't break 85, I just think it would be pretty uncommon and way less than 40/100. 

 

 

 

Well. Just don’t agree on percentages.  No biggie.   I guess to me too it depends on n the mindset.  I think entering it with a goal of just breaking 85 would take tons of pressure off most scratch or better players.  We usually get in trouble pressing for birdies.  As in trying to break par.  Playing for an 84 eliminates that.  
 

at any rate it’s all talk  until we convince Augusta tp invite us to try this out.   Lol. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by bladehunter

[heavy_hitter]

On 4/18/2021 at 8:45 PM, Shilgy said:

That was my point with the 75 yards per hole comment. Perhaps it would even be 90 yards per hole longer. Funny thing is a much derided forward tee scratch would find less trouble on most holes than would the longer player.  Bunkers would not be in play and as long as they played for the “break 85” score they would have little trouble. For most scratches it would be the ego of trying to go low that would break them. Playing more conservatively should make it easy-ish for a legit scratch.**

 

 

 

Like every single thread of this type I have read over the years here on wax there is one common refrain. Doesn’t matter if it’s the 4 handicap vs the lady or the scratch playing AN.  There are so many misperceptions about the handicap system.  People forget that the handicap is not a measure to par. It is to the course rating. I recall playing a Medinah  #3 multiple times and being struck by the idea a scratch player would average about 81 if he played the tips there.  78.3/152 7657 yards. That was 25 years ago and the tees most games were played from were 7007 yards and rated 75.3 147. First time I saw it I was a 0 cap and played with a Hooters Tour aspiring pro. I shot 81 from the back of every box.

  Not saying that proves anything about AN but again it’s just math. A scratch player, made from any tees but playing by the rules of golf.....not the vanity type @bladehuntermentioned.....is not going to somehow lose his game completely because it’s AN.

 

 

I will add this thought....a lot of the talk in these threads is why the modern young player does well on tour compared to the past. The old logic was it took a few years to settle in and their 30’s was there prime. Today’s players know it’s still just golf and AN is just a golf course.

 

I bang my head against the wall trying to explain to my father in law that HI is not relative to par.  He has no idea of what I am talking about.

[Bye]

My best friend is also off scratch, has been for some time. He has no short game, I’m not sure I would be able to watch him play 3,7,9 or 15. I mentioned the thread and he has no problem me saying this. 
 

He also said that a friend of his from university has played Augusta twice on the Monday following the Masters. A scratch golfer no less. I think some of the media get to play the following day.

 

I don’t know if it was on his first attempt, but he had been walking the course, and played from the MEMBERS TEES (around 1100 yards shorter). He shot 79. 
 

I might have posted this before, can’t remember. 

 

 

[Shilgy]

58 minutes ago, Bye said:

My best friend is also off scratch, has been for some time. He has no short game, I’m not sure I would be able to watch him play 3,7,9 or 15. I mentioned the thread and he has no problem me saying this. 
 

He also said that a friend of his from university has played Augusta twice on the Monday following the Masters. A scratch golfer no less. I think some of the media get to play the following day.

 

I don’t know if it was on his first attempt, but he had been walking the course, and played from the MEMBERS TEES (around 1100 yards shorter). He shot 79. 
 

I might have posted this before, can’t remember. 

 

 

So based on the supposed course rating he is right there as being able to. If the 78.1 is correct for the tourney tees then these member tees would be 73.0 to 74.0 likely.  The extra length would not change the short game impact everyone seems to say would be most difficult to overcome.

[Bye]

12 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

So based on the supposed course rating he is right there as being able to. If the 78.1 is correct for the tourney tees then these member tees would be 73.0 to 74.0 likely.  The extra length would not change the short game impact everyone seems to say would be most difficult to overcome.

I think I am more undecided now.

 

The extra length would most likely mean less greens hit, I think the average this year was around 60%. So there would be more emphasis on the short game. Some of the holes are drastically different from the members tees, like 4&7.

[pinhigh27]

22 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

So based on the supposed course rating he is right there as being able to. If the 78.1 is correct for the tourney tees then these member tees would be 73.0 to 74.0 likely.  The extra length would not change the short game impact everyone seems to say would be most difficult to overcome.

wouldn't change short game but would absolutely increase average score. no one would ever suggest you're going to average anywhere near the same score from 1100 yards back. Going to be 5+ shots harder 

[Shilgy]

17 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

wouldn't change short game but would absolutely increase average score. no one would ever suggest you're going to average anywhere near the same score from 1100 yards back. Going to be 5+ shots harder 

That’s what I just posted....glad we agree. 79 +5 =84.....or as I posted he was right there as regards breaking 85.

 

I am certainly not saying a scratch would every round but guys it’s still just golf and math.  Some seem to be saying a +10 tour pro ) meaning +10 when he’s on) and a solid scratch player are more than 18 shots apart.  

[pinhigh27]

oh ya my bad